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1 Grand what can I build?? - Page 2

post #31 of 54
Thread Starter 
Well I am in the USA so I was going to get a Friend in Au. toos order it for me and send it over FedEx, But if you have other alternatives I am all ears but remeber I already bought the MDF And cut it for the Box on the iST Website and the tune was to 17hz.. wink.gif

Thnx, I see you reccomended the EP2500 and mini dsp Got it thnx.. I was just thinking that was TOO many Watts as this IXL 18.2.2 driver is reccomended to use 800 watts?? I am confused to why I can go over that amount with the 2500 and the IXL 18.2.2??
Edited by The_Nephilim1 - 10/21/12 at 6:22am
post #32 of 54
I typed a long reply but it disappeared into the ether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

Well I am in the USA so I was going to get a Friend in Au. toos order it for me and send it over FedEx,
$A319 + $A20 to your friend +$A150 Fedex doesn't sound like value when the UXL can be had for $US530 direct and it has 50% more output than the IXL.
For other alternatives people in the US would need to reply as I don't monitor drivers and stocks in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

But if you have other alternatives I am all ears but remeber I already bought the MDF And cut it for the Box on the iST Website and the tune was to 17hz.. wink.gif
Cutting wood before you have all the parts on hand is a mistake. It may be able top be used with a larger port.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

Thnx, I see you reccomended the EP2500 and mini dsp Got it thnx.. I was just thinking that was TOO many Watts as this IXL 18.2.2 driver is reccomended to use 800 watts?? I am confused to why I can go over that amount with the 2500 and the IXL 18.2.2??
Read posts 2 and 10 here as most of it applies.
post #33 of 54
What size enclosure did you already create? Is it ported or sealed?
post #34 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffKnob View Post

What size enclosure did you already create? Is it ported or sealed?


here is the box I made on the iST Website for the IXL18.2.2:


http://www.istonline.ca/pagepics/enclosures/ixl18-1.jpg


It is ported and a Bass Reflex Design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

I typed a long reply but it disappeared into the ether.
$A319 + $A20 to your friend +$A150 Fedex doesn't sound like value when the UXL can be had for $US530 direct and it has 50% more output than the IXL.
For other alternatives people in the US would need to reply as I don't monitor drivers and stocks in the US.
Cutting wood before you have all the parts on hand is a mistake. It may be able top be used with a larger port.
Read posts 2 and 10 here as most of it applies.

Well like I said I already built the box as this was a driver that was reccomended I maybe able to get the uxl but I am not sure if I can use the Box I already made.. I just tried to geta jump on getting it done seems how I just learned an expensive mistake.. :frown.gif

I will email iST and see what I can do with the box I already made and their UXL Driver..
Edited by The_Nephilim1 - 10/21/12 at 3:47pm
post #35 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

here is the box I made on the iST Website for the IXL18.2.2:
http://www.istonline.ca/pagepics/enclosures/ixl18-1.jpg
It is ported and a Bass Reflex Design.
Well like I said I already built the box as this was a driver that was reccomended I maybe able to get the uxl but I am not sure if I can use the Box I already made.. I just tried to geta jump on getting it done seems how I just learned an expensive mistake.. :frown.gif
I will email iST and see what I can do with the box I already made and their UXL Driver..


Well I had emailed iST and Mark had said I could use the UXL 18 Driver I just need to cut down the Internal Volume by 25 liters, He also said I could use some 2x4's too do this. So now I ask How many 2x4's would I need to put in to cut down the liters by 25?? here is the email I received from mark:


Hi Gerald,

If however you wish to take a step up and get the UXL-18, you can still
use the box you built. I would suggest cutting the internal volume down
by around 25 liters. This will increase tuning frequency about 1Hz but
will provide more output down low. A person could use anything solid -
2x4's for example would be a good choice as they are light and easy to
glue/screw together.

Best,
Mark
post #36 of 54
The port is 40in2 and calculates out to just under 80cm long which for an unchanged box gives a 16Hz tune.
With a second order HPF at 16Hz, I get this in Unibox.

Frequency Response

VBResponseMach5UXL18Neph.gif

Excursion.

VBExcursionMach5UXL18Neph.gif

Port Air Speed

VBPortAirSpeedMach5UXL18Neph.gif

All looks good, with no reduction in enclosure volume.
post #37 of 54
Thread Starter 
So are you saying I can use the box I built without modifing it??


Also here is a shot of the cut pile of MDF:


imgp3183.jpg
Edited by The_Nephilim1 - 10/22/12 at 8:57pm
post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

So are you saying I can use the box I built without modifing it??/quote]Yes, that's why I modelled it this morning and posted the results.
NB: I used 275L not 285, but it will make stuff all difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

Also here is a shot of the cut pile of MDF:
imgp3183.jpg
So is it built, or just a pile of wood pieces? I thought you'd completed it. If not, I'd change the design of the port a bit.
post #39 of 54
Thread Starter 
Well it is what you see in the pic just a pile right now..I was waiting to get the driver I was going to use before I cut the holes for the Driver..

So what would I need to do to the port??

Here is what I think I will need to purchase :



1. Behringer 2500 Pro Amp
2. Mini DSP Balanced 2x4
3. UXL 18 Driver..


Also for the Amp to the Sub Cabinet could I use the Neutrik Speakon Connectors?? they seem to lock in place?? How would I connect the mini dsp to the system if I used the Speakon Connectors??
Edited by The_Nephilim1 - 10/26/12 at 8:20am
post #40 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

Well it is what you see in the pic just a pile right now..I was waiting to get the driver I was going to use before I cut the holes for the Driver..
So what would I need to do to the port??
Here is what I think I will need to purchase :
1. Behringer 2500 Pro Amp
2. Mini DSP Balanced 2x4
3. UXL 18 Driver..
Also for the Amp to the Sub Cabinet could I use the Neutrik Speakon Connectors?? they seem to lock in place?? How would I connect the mini dsp to the system if I used the Speakon Connectors??



Anybody??Please dont let my thread die so soon wink.gif
post #41 of 54
Thread Starter 
Now wondering If I should use regular speaker connections or the speakon connectors to connect the amp to the
Sub?? Also besides Behringer what other Amps are reccomended??
Edited by The_Nephilim1 - 11/4/12 at 7:18pm
post #42 of 54
Thread Starter 
Well On Again with this Project I am soon to aquire 2 IXL 18.4 Drivers..I am also thinking of getting an iNuke 3000 W/Built in DSP but I hear the High pass filter is set at 20hz??

Would that kill my 16hz tune?? I am unsure how I could get the high pass filter to go lower to say 16hz...

Also I am going to use the Speakon connectors 2 pole to connect the SubWoofers to the amp..
Edited by The_Nephilim1 - 1/21/13 at 7:51pm
post #43 of 54
Thread Starter 
Well I had finished up the sub to its rough form. I am going to cover it in Upholstery soon. but I had finished it up and ended going with the following Parts:


1. Mach 5 IXL 18.4 driver
2. Behringer inuke 3000DSP
3. 3/4" MDF Box @ 285L

nOw I ran through some test after I recieved the cable in the mail yesterday but when I turned it all on after I hooked it up Nothing.. OK Small prolem I checked and double checked ll the connectors Still looked good. AFter some time fooling around I took out the speakon connector on the Subwoofer and I had it wired wrong Duh!!,, I quickly fixed that and fired her eback up and Boom Nothing but a Hum coming out of the driver

I thought at first the amp was bad but after some tinkering and turned it off to be safe. went to the Google and searched for HUM came back with alot of Ground Loop issues.. I thought OK sounds good and I found a Article over at Audiholics and it had mentioned ways of determining and fixing this issue.. Well after reading it twice I figured it out.. I then applied the fix a few hours later after researching and positng on variuos foums got it fixed..

Fired it back up and NO Hum Excellent I thought lets see what this Driver can do.. I immedietely loaded up some Felix Hell and Wow It felt like I was in the Hall with Felix the Bass was Perfect.. So after I messed with that a but I got out the old SPL Meter and recalibrated the system and continued testing..

I had some Rap songs by Beanie Man "Who Am I" and Tag Teams "Whoomp there it is" WOW the bass was incredible and it was no Where near clipping this is a good thing so I turned the gain a little bit on the Behringer amp and tried it again it just got better and better..

Well after about a 2 hour session I figured give it a rest for now till after dinner.. I must say the DIY route was a very pleasurable and interesting event.. I learned tons of stuff. and still learning but the most Part I have a Subwoofer that can compete with the big boys after all this thing is no Slouch, LOL!!

Well I still have some finishing up of the cabinet and I am going to get some speaker gasket materiela for the driver and going with T-Nuts instead of the wood screws I used.. Also I need to seal a few air leaks I guess is important but it still sounded good even in the rough..

Well here are some shots of the Box and Drivers enjoy and Please fell free to pick my brain willing to share what I have learned in this adventure..



























































OK I just got done my First Test Session.
Edited by The_Nephilim1 - 3/24/13 at 6:14pm
post #44 of 54
Thread Starter 
Hi, I have solved my slope problems thnx for the help.. wink.gif
Edited by The_Nephilim1 - 3/29/13 at 11:31am
post #45 of 54
Thread Starter 
well today I armed my self with a Spreadsheet and some test tones to test the Responce of my Sub.. turns out I have a really Flat response from 20-120hz all withing 6 db of the trargeted db of 80db..

Good to know I will not need to mess with that any and that the response if pretty flat.. I also recalibrated the system and put some music in it sounded great.. I just have to recalibrate the 7.1 analog input for my Denon DVD-A/SACD Player..

Looks like there is NO need to buy that usb souncard to run REW as this should be good enough..
post #46 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

First of all, where do you live?
When you mentioned getting the IXL18 from Oz, I presumed you were down here, Nuw Zulund or SE Asia.
If you are in the US there will be other options that might work out cheaper.
Simply Xmax is the excursion you can use a driver to with good performance and no damage indefinitely. Xmech is the point where if you increase the excursion (and it doesn't matter what frequency it's at) you will damage the driver.

The tuning is the frequency that you've tuned the box/driver system to, in this case you've been talking about 18Hz IIRC.
With any ported enclosure, below the tuning frequency, if you apply power there, excursion rapidly increases. This is why you need a steep filter, to get rid of any content (music/movie sound) that exists below tuning. With an 18Hz tune, almost all pipe organ will be fine as there are few that use a stop below 16Hz. If you put on a movie with lots of extreme LF content and turn it up, you could damage the driver, which is why I asked.

Here is the excursion of the IXL18 in a 275L 18Hz tuned enclosure at rated power and no filtering. Note the rapid increase in excursion below tuning. This is the same in general for all ported boxes.

nephX.gif

And this is identical with a 2nd order 17Hz HPF.

nephXBW2.gif

The horizontal red line is the IXLs rated 22mm excursion. IIRC Xmech is around 30mm, so imagine another horizontal one there and anything above that means damage.
I answered that in my first post in this thread.
I don't give any credence to anecdotal reviews.
You shouldn't need an extra dedicated line, and I doubt you are as close to maxxed out as you think you are. More on this later as I have other things I need to attend to right at this moment.


So if I have a 2nd order HPF at 15 hz I will not excede the xmax but it does at 10hz in the above chart??, so you saying with the HPF it will NOT play that tone at 10hz or anything below 17hz?? so If I get this right anything at tune will be safe as long as it is under 22xmax???? I am not sure I understand this above model totally??

Also the Box is 285L at 17hz tune..
Edited by The_Nephilim1 - 3/30/13 at 11:07pm
post #47 of 54
I don't get what needs to be further explained. The post you quoted has all the info required already, so re-read it.

The difference between 275 and 285L will make stuff all difference.
post #48 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

I don't get what needs to be further explained. The post you quoted has all the info required already, so re-read it.

The difference between 275 and 285L will make stuff all difference.

WEll OK I think I get it I was just double guessing myself and I thought perhaps you could have reanswered my question a different way..

Anyhow I am trying to run my inuke 3000dsp in Bridged mode. I have a 2 pole connector and was told I can change the wire on the amp end to 1+ for positive and 2+ for Negative, well problem is I just took the cable apart and it is NOT numbered How am I to tell which port is the 2+ end?? Trial and error??
post #49 of 54
Referring to post 30>

Graph 1 shows the expected excursion if you swept a sine 10-1000Hz.
Graph 2 shows the same with a 2nd order HPF in place. This reduces signal level below the knee point (17Hz in this case) so excursion is reduced. Even with this in place if you supply the driver with it's rated power below 15Hz it will exceed Xmax, but probably not Xmech. This is considerably better result than without the filter. If you want to absolutely gaurantee that the driver will never exceed Xmax with rated power applied, use a 3rd or 4th order. I wouldn't bother personally, but it's your call.
post #50 of 54
Thread Starter 
Hi Thnx for that just 1 more note. In the graph it shows at 10hz it has surpassed XMax but just near xmech.. I thought that if the 10HZ tone had exceeded the XMax that would have damaged the driver..If I am correct it will not if I aplly a 3rd or 4th order bandpass which is what I want to do..

Any cons to applying a 3rd or 4th order bandpass..I would also like to know in the iNuke software are the bandpass called Slopes ?? I have 5 slopes to choose from, 6db,,12db,,18,,24db,48 is that 1st,2nd order bandpasses??
Edited by The_Nephilim1 - 3/31/13 at 7:29am
post #51 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

Hi Thnx for that just 1 more note. In the graph it shows at 10hz it has surpassed XMax but just near xmech.. I thought that if the 10HZ tone had exceeded the XMax that would have damaged the driver..
No. Xmax is where the performance of the driver has degraded to some degree (Bl<0.707, THD>10% etc) but exceeding Xmech is when it will sustain actual damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

If I am correct it will not if I aplly a 3rd or 4th order bandpass which is what I want to do..

Any cons to applying a 3rd or 4th order bandpass..I would also like to know in the iNuke software are the bandpass called Slopes ?? I have 5 slopes to choose from, 6db,,12db,,18,,24db,48 is that 1st,2nd order bandpasses??
You don't want to use the bandpass filter function; you need to make one out of the HPF and LPF sections to get the desired slopes and correct passband.
You are correct that 1st order = 6dB/oct, 2nd = 12 etc. This is often shorthanded into filter descriptions such as LR4 being a 4th order Linkwitz Riley though LR24 is sometimes used for the same.

I don't have an inuke, so can offer no advice on how to implement filters with one. Ask someone who has one.
post #52 of 54
Thread Starter 
OK thnx that was most helpful.. I think I found a good setting for my inuke.. I just need to figure out what wire is the 2+ on my Plug as it is not numbered..That was I can run in Bridged mode and more wattage..
post #53 of 54
Thread Starter 
WEll I finally Finished My Subwoofer.. I covered it in a corduhroy material and the final result was not too bad.. I think in the Future I will paint them with duratex..


















It is a killer driver.. wink.gif
post #54 of 54
I like the finish, needs a tiny bit of tidying at the joins (IMHO) but better than I could do! smile.gif
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