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So realistically, how do DIY flat kits sound compared to high dollar retail finished products? - Page 5

post #121 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Limited View Post

What? Wait you mean I'm not allowed to just hijack his thread? Isn't he done? lol... ok, hint taken!

Thank you for your sense of humor, most would have turned that into an argument smile.gif
post #122 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Oh. I love the Behringer ep4000 (and 2500) and think it's probably the best affordable amp you can get. Especially for bass applications. Though I do find it funny when some get tricked into thinking it actually puts a real 4,000w of output. I wish!!
Nope. I know the things power ratings like the back of my hand.
450w 8ohm ch
630w 4ohm ch
800w 2ohm ch
1,300w 8ohm bridged
1,600w 4ohm bridged

The EP-2500 measured 1100 watts at 2 ohms at 1khz with .07%THD. The spec is rated at 1200 watts, 2ohms, 1khz, .1%THD. I would say it hits it's specs. The bridged mode hit 2000 watts and it is rated to 2500 watts. Maybe program material compared to sine waves? Either way you are using 20hz numbers and the specs from behringer use 1khz. They are not inflated specs at all.
post #123 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsOlearysCow View Post

The reports on DIY are necessarily going to have more enthusiastic reviews imo simply because there's a natural tendency to set the bar lower for something home built, and more caution to be positive about evaluating something with the creator present in the thread. I can't tell how to evaluate the reports of DIY results, there is very little review that directly speaks to the sound quality without the context of DIY pride value.

Or people do incredible DIY builds.... $2500 DIY would blow your socks off.
post #124 of 325
I read this whole thread, and didn't read an answer to the question "How do DIY flat kits sound compared to high dollar retail finished products?" I guess the short answer is "I don't know?" I'm thinking of buying an Hsu ULS15 for $1,100. Can anyone tell me - head to head - is there a DIY kit that will sound as good and save me substantial bucks? Like MrsOlearysCow, I'm not opposed to a DIY if I can get the same quality and save enough money to make the effort worthwhile.
post #125 of 325
uxl-18 an ep4000 and a box will be under 1k and be much much much louder and go lower. add a mini dsp and u got more control of your sub the the hsu could ever dream of having.
post #126 of 325
Here's the short/skinny. Go over to HomeTheaterShack and read about LLT. Build a large driver (15"+) sonosub (or two). Tune it to ~14Hz. Hook it up to a miniDSP for HPF and PEQ. Hook it up to a big pro amp like an iNuke (maybe get the DSP and drop the miniDSP), or ep4000. Learn to use REW. Tune it. You will easily hit 110dB@15Hz and be as flat (or house curved) as you like. And done.

The problem with most retail stuff is that they don't go for the ultra-low tunes since they figure they can't sell coffin sized subs to most sane people, or handle the logistics of getting demo space, moving 200lb beasts to people's doors, etc. The LLT concept pushes all of the distortion and group delay into the explosion frequencies where you don't care about "tight" bass. Everything above 2*tune sounds like it's coming from a sealed enclosure. Sure, that'll probably start a flame war. But I'm very happy with my 2 15" Dayton Titanic LLT's.
post #127 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

I read this whole thread, and didn't read an answer to the question "How do DIY flat kits sound compared to high dollar retail finished products?" I guess the short answer is "I don't know?" I'm thinking of buying an Hsu ULS15 for $1,100. Can anyone tell me - head to head - is there a DIY kit that will sound as good and save me substantial bucks? Like MrsOlearysCow, I'm not opposed to a DIY if I can get the same quality and save enough money to make the effort worthwhile.

As Cookie already suggested, there are many many ways to outperform that sub for $1,100, and when I say outperform, I mean in spades. The problem the answer hasnt been fully answered to your liking is that it is too specific of a question. I can make my system "Sound" like anything I want with signal shaping, but most people don't even want to mess with it. Speak to any HT builder and they will tell you, the room is more important than the speaker you put into it. This is even more true in the Bass department. DIY takes a little extra work over clicking "Order" on a website, but your sweat equity pays off when you get a design complete and installed properly. In my personal opinion, there is no comparison commercially to what I have accomplished for the money. No onto the next post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smprather View Post

Here's the short/skinny. Go over to HomeTheaterShack and read about LLT. Build a large driver (15"+) sonosub (or two). Tune it to ~14Hz. Hook it up to a miniDSP for HPF and PEQ. Hook it up to a big pro amp like an iNuke (maybe get the DSP and drop the miniDSP), or ep4000. Learn to use REW. Tune it. You will easily hit 110dB@15Hz and be as flat (or house curved) as you like. And done.
The problem with most retail stuff is that they don't go for the ultra-low tunes since they figure they can't sell coffin sized subs to most sane people, or handle the logistics of getting demo space, moving 200lb beasts to people's doors, etc. The LLT concept pushes all of the distortion and group delay into the explosion frequencies where you don't care about "tight" bass. Everything above 2*tune sounds like it's coming from a sealed enclosure. Sure, that'll probably start a flame war. But I'm very happy with my 2 15" Dayton Titanic LLT's.

I have a pair of LLT's still hanging around in storage. Two tempest x-2 15's LLT's tuned to 11hz. I built and painted the entire enclosure on a Friday evening after work. The whole things was done and installed in about 24 hours. They are friggin HUGE, but they pound. All in I bet I have $8-900 in them including the speakers and they can absolutely destroy anything else for that dollar amount. Promise...
post #128 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

As Cookie already suggested, there are many many ways to outperform that sub for $1,100, and when I say outperform, I mean in spades. The problem the answer hasnt been fully answered to your liking is that it is too specific of a question. I can make my system "Sound" like anything I want with signal shaping, but most people don't even want to mess with it. Speak to any HT builder and they will tell you, the room is more important than the speaker you put into it. This is even more true in the Bass department. DIY takes a little extra work over clicking "Order" on a website, but your sweat equity pays off when you get a design complete and installed properly. In my personal opinion, there is no comparison commercially to what I have accomplished for the money. No onto the next post...
I have a pair of LLT's still hanging around in storage. Two tempest x-2 15's LLT's tuned to 11hz. I built and painted the entire enclosure on a Friday evening after work. The whole things was done and installed in about 24 hours. They are friggin HUGE, but they pound. All in I bet I have $8-900 in them including the speakers and they can absolutely destroy anything else for that dollar amount. Promise...

Well... If they are just "hanging around" would you consider selling? smile.gif

If so, please PM me ASAP!! lol
post #129 of 325
I did not feel like tinkering due to some surgeries I went thru but before the surgeries I was a Digital Architect for Sound Advice(the tweeter buy out is a long story, but the orig owner has bought the Sound Advice name back and has reopened the Ft Lauderdale store and website) I went with the Mirage BPS150i In a bi-pole configuration with 2 8" subs and it sounds great in live room or dead rooms I have moved quite a few times since purchasing the sub so I have had the chance to use it in huge room and apts and whats is great is with the bi-pole or dipole sub if I want to crank it the people next door do not hear it when their bedroom wall is on the wall my sub is, I like my crossover set at 80hz @12db per octave and my Yamaha RXV 1300(time to upgrade that) also has a crossover also set at 80hc@12db per octave so that gives me a nice wall @ 24db per octave I am running my Receiver in 6.1 mode and I use Mirage OS1 as my front and rears since they are omnipole and my center is a nice big Mirage OM-C3 Direct radiating and I am like You 50/50 and all sound great but when that sub was big I sold it with Klipsch, Martin Logan' and even B&W speakers and everyone loved it now best buy carries Mirage Since Tweeter folded and Polk audio makes some nice subs at a fair price, I do love Velodyne but the amount you said your willing to spend would be kinda hard to find a Velodyne but you never know I have seen people get into finical trouble and sell there stuff for cheap like KRELL & B&O, if you do go with a manufactured sub try and get one with a remote so you can adjust everything from your sweet spot without having a friend at the sub making the adjustments while you sit in your magic sweet spot
post #130 of 325
I had a couple of Alpine Bass 500s drive units which were not being used. I downloaded WinISD and chose a ported Isobarik enclosure.
Got some 1 inch MDF cut to size and built the box. Used an old stereo amp (each channel feeding one driver unit). Downloaded a sine wave generator program to test it - result=perfection.
When the helicopter hit the building in 'The Matrix' the whole house shook.
post #131 of 325
These will both fit the "Bill" (pun intended)

 http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/THT.html
The THT recommended driver costs @ $175. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-468

http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/TT.html
The TT recommended drivers cost @ $75-80. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-854 or http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-202

Both can be run with a $170 plate amp. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-750
Edited by Icanthereanymore - 10/31/12 at 4:15pm
post #132 of 325
I don't know if you would be interested in my sub which has a defect in the servo or accelerometer on the speaker and needs to be repaired. It is a Velodyne HGS-15 and originally cost around $2700 plus I have a set of tripod spikes that went for another couple hundred that the speaker sits on. You could either get the speaker repaired for approximately $250( plus shipping) or use your own new driver and use the cabinet and amp(which supposedly peaks out at 2000 watts) if you wanted to go that route. If you want to get it repaired you would have to ship it to velodyne; they will not send out those replacement parts for a customer to repair themselves. I am not interested in fixing it because I now live in a condo and either have it turned really low or turn it off because of the adjoining neighbors. I would sell it for $300 plus you would have to pick up the shipping. If you are interested you can e-mail me at vikkiandkurt@gmailcom.
post #133 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

I read this whole thread, and didn't read an answer to the question "How do DIY flat kits sound compared to high dollar retail finished products?" I guess the short answer is "I don't know?" I'm thinking of buying an Hsu ULS15 for $1,100. Can anyone tell me - head to head - is there a DIY kit that will sound as good and save me substantial bucks? Like MrsOlearysCow, I'm not opposed to a DIY if I can get the same quality and save enough money to make the effort worthwhile.

It was partially answered. The general consensus is that it's not worth the money to get a flat kit compared to going with say, and svs or hsu subwoofer. You are better off making your own enclosure. You save a couple hundred dollars, and you will get better results when you use winisd to calculate the perfect box size for your space and needs.

Edit: And if you want to spend over a grand, and you have some wood working skills, you could do way better with that amound of money. cookieattk and others have given some good examples to blow the retail solutions out of the water. For around $800 you could build 2 of BFM's THT's, or 2 of lilmike's cinema f20s. If you had 2 of those, you are starting to approach concert level decibels. Except I've never been to a concert that plays that loud under 50hz. The folded horns will get you to 20hz, and into the teens with multiples.

You could also try doing multiples of the new daytonHO 18" sealed with some pro amps. There isn't much experience with that driver yet, but I'm sure multiples would get you high volume down low.
Edited by doodoobutter - 10/31/12 at 4:13pm
post #134 of 325
Well I didn't read the entire thread so hopefully I'm not restating anything that's been covered a dozen times. In my opinion most of the modest priced subs with 10 & 12 inch woofers shouldn't even be called subwoofers. They simply don't go low enough. Sure there are plenty of high priced subs with good deep response but most of them seem to expend vast engineering effort and $$$ to make the sub as small as possible. Maybe that's important to some but not me. 30 years ago I was looking for an efficient sub with true 20 Hz 3dB down point to go with my Electro Voice Interface C speakers. I was also reading speaker builder magazine voraciously. About the same time Audio Magazine published an article by some JBL engineers on how to build enclosures for their pro 15" and 18" drivers. They laid out several enclosures and tunings with and without active EQ. I bought a 2245H 18" driver (~$300 way back then) and built a 12 cu ft cabinet. Powered it with a Carver M200 bridged to put out 600 W continuous along with a M1.5t for the EV's. Cranking the Telarc 1812 Overture disc the canon shots would dim the lights. I still have that JBL sub. I don't use the M200 bridged any more as the gain is too high and I don't need the power for my HT system. I'm using an Onkyo TX-NR809 receiver (135W/ch) with Mirage OMD-15 L & R, OMDC-1 center and 4 OMD-5's for surround and rears. It sounds great together, the Audyssey does a good job of matching levels and blending the sub and room response to make an unobtrusive but very solid low end. The system doesn't play nearly as loud as my old stereo system did but I don't have any desire to listen to it that loud any more. The limit is the Onkyo and the Mirages, not the sub.

So my point is that a high quality sub driver with a good cabinet is something that you can build around for years if not decades to come and it does not have to cost that much. I did have to refoam the the surround on the JBL a couple times. The driver is no longer in production but you can still get parts for it and the new surrounds are better than what JBL used originally.

JUST BUILD IT. biggrin.gif
post #135 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

I read this whole thread, and didn't read an answer to the question "How do DIY flat kits sound compared to high dollar retail finished products?" I guess the short answer is "I don't know?" I'm thinking of buying an Hsu ULS15 for $1,100. Can anyone tell me - head to head - is there a DIY kit that will sound as good and save me substantial bucks? Like MrsOlearysCow, I'm not opposed to a DIY if I can get the same quality and save enough money to make the effort worthwhile.

If you were set on buying ID, I would recommend the Rythmic FV15HP. Epic performance for the price point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

uxl-18 an ep4000 and a box will be under 1k and be much much much louder and go lower. add a mini dsp and u got more control of your sub the the hsu could ever dream of having.

You know... I still kick myself. There is a lot of talk about a Dual opposed TC Sounds LMS-R 15's. But, if you put it in perspective, a dual opposed UXL-18 would dominate from an output perspective....

Quote:
Originally Posted by smprather View Post

Here's the short/skinny. Go over to HomeTheaterShack and read about LLT. Build a large driver (15"+) sonosub (or two). Tune it to ~14Hz. Hook it up to a miniDSP for HPF and PEQ. Hook it up to a big pro amp like an iNuke (maybe get the DSP and drop the miniDSP), or ep4000. Learn to use REW. Tune it. You will easily hit 110dB@15Hz and be as flat (or house curved) as you like. And done.
The problem with most retail stuff is that they don't go for the ultra-low tunes since they figure they can't sell coffin sized subs to most sane people, or handle the logistics of getting demo space, moving 200lb beasts to people's doors, etc. The LLT concept pushes all of the distortion and group delay into the explosion frequencies where you don't care about "tight" bass. Everything above 2*tune sounds like it's coming from a sealed enclosure. Sure, that'll probably start a flame war. But I'm very happy with my 2 15" Dayton Titanic LLT's.

All I have to say about this post is.... Well said, sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

Well... If they are just "hanging around" would you consider selling? smile.gif
If so, please PM me ASAP!! lol

Hi, my name is shipping costs. I would like to introduce you to unrealistic expectations. Shipping these massive LLT boxes = unrealistic expectatuons due to ridiculous shipping costs... I'm pretty sure the LLT's that you are considering purchasing would have to be crated, thus the shipping cost would probably cost more than the product itself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shnozzsauges View Post

I did not feel like tinkering due to some surgeries I went thru but before the surgeries I was a Digital Architect for Sound Advice(the tweeter buy out is a long story, but the orig owner has bought the Sound Advice name back and has reopened the Ft Lauderdale store and website) I went with the Mirage BPS150i In a bi-pole configuration with 2 8" subs and it sounds great in live room or dead rooms I have moved quite a few times since purchasing the sub so I have had the chance to use it in huge room and apts and whats is great is with the bi-pole or dipole sub if I want to crank it the people next door do not hear it when their bedroom wall is on the wall my sub is, I like my crossover set at 80hz @12db per octave and my Yamaha RXV 1300(time to upgrade that) also has a crossover also set at 80hc@12db per octave so that gives me a nice wall @ 24db per octave I am running my Receiver in 6.1 mode and I use Mirage OS1 as my front and rears since they are omnipole and my center is a nice big Mirage OM-C3 Direct radiating and I am like You 50/50 and all sound great but when that sub was big I sold it with Klipsch, Martin Logan' and even B&W speakers and everyone loved it now best buy carries Mirage Since Tweeter folded and Polk audio makes some nice subs at a fair price, I do love Velodyne but the amount you said your willing to spend would be kinda hard to find a Velodyne but you never know I have seen people get into finical trouble and sell there stuff for cheap like KRELL & B&O, if you do go with a manufactured sub try and get one with a remote so you can adjust everything from your sweet spot without having a friend at the sub making the adjustments while you sit in your magic sweet spot

See no abla espanwhatthefu!k are you walking about?

Quote:

Is it me, or is this thread somehow spawing new members to post super random stuff (myself uncluded)...
Edited by enterthedragon - 10/31/12 at 7:23pm
post #136 of 325
I built a couple of the 12" 350W servo feedback subwoofers from Rhythmik Audio:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/

They are awesome, I'm a soundman and have the Smaart Live analyzer and mic that I use to set up large systems. These were easy to tune flat to 16Hz in a pair of 1 cubic foot (real small!!!) airtight boxes made of 1" MDF and stuffed with Dacron. I had the cabinets built by a guy Brad @ Woodstyle products 626-968-2830 that did it for reasonable money and finished piano black. They look about like the ones in the first picture on this page:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/reviews.html

This was the first time I ever really saw 16 HZ low end response so easy to get out of a 1 cubic foot box!. Using the extended setting on the amp, there wasn't a lot of external EQing to boost it or anything. They also have a 15" version, but my room was small (14x18) and space was at a premium.

These really are concussive on explosions and even just good car door closings. And the musical SQ is very transparent. Once you feel the bottom octave that's usually mostly missing or over-compensated for in the next octave, you'll never want to go back.

I used a Berringer Feedback Destroyer Pro for it's parametric EQing ability so between that taking out the standing wave room modes, and the servo feedback amplifier controlling the cone and system response, it's just right.
Edited by genesound - 10/31/12 at 9:01pm
post #137 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by enterthedragon View Post

the shipping cost would probably cost more than the product itself...
/quote]

Unless I lived in driving distance and could pick them up... oh wait, I do!! smile.gif
post #138 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by enterthedragon View Post

If you were set on buying ID, I would recommend the Rythmic FV15HP. Epic performance for the price point.

Is it me, or is this thread somehow spawing new members to post super random stuff (myself uncluded)...

Opinions of the DIY section on the Rhythmic site where I can buy that sub + amp, and even build the enclosure with the plans they provide?
(genesound, seems like you like what your 12" setup ended up with then?)

I'm looking into doing this for a fun project over the holidays (and because my 5 speakers with no sub just kills me).. But then again.. SO MANY OPTIONS! Seems like I can do better for cheaper, so I may go after the Dayton sub or something similar
I feel like I'm going to get sucked into the DIY world soon enough haha


The thread is spawning new members because there was a link in the AVS newsletter (?) that was sent out today that links people here smile.gif
post #139 of 325
FWIW, In as small a space as you have, you should be able to get away with all manner of incorrect box and speaker design on your sub if you have good amplification. All this focus on "perfection" is great if you have the time, tools and need. My two cents.

Enjoy.
post #140 of 325
Design a passive subwoofer - they do not have the phasing problems active ones have.

But, first, get a third-octave spectrum analyzer to find out: 1. what's the f3 of your speakers, 2. what is the resonance frequencies of your room.

With 1, you can begin the design of your subwoofers. With 2, you can begin to find the parametric equalizer you will need.

Then, the fun begins.

P.S. it takes a very long time to learn how to understand and use a third-octave spectrum analyzer and parametric equalizer is difficult to dial in.

Again, have fun… ‘cause it’s all about the journey.
post #141 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by enterthedragon View Post

the shipping cost would probably cost more than the product itself...
/quote]
Unless I lived in driving distance and could pick them up... oh wait, I do!! smile.gif

I have one other gent possibly interested in them, but I will keep you in mind. PM me your info...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tim Channel View Post

FWIW, In as small a space as you have, you should be able to get away with all manner of incorrect box and speaker design on your sub if you have good amplification. All this focus on "perfection" is great if you have the time, tools and need. My two cents.
Enjoy.

Oh? Just the ole' toss some more watts at it theorem? Please explain a little further! Lol I love building stuff incorrectly. I will digress though. In sealed orientations the box size isnt going to affect the response much with a variance of about .5cuft, on the other hand, a .5cuft different sized box on a ported alignment will certainly cause some issues. I'm sorry if I sound a little terse, but why would anyone go into it knowing they are building something incorrectly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEars View Post

Design a passive subwoofer - they do not have the phasing problems active ones have.
But, first, get a third-octave spectrum analyzer to find out: 1. what's the f3 of your speakers, 2. what is the resonance frequencies of your room.
With 1, you can begin the design of your subwoofers. With 2, you can begin to find the parametric equalizer you will need.
Then, the fun begins.
P.S. it takes a very long time to learn how to understand and use a third-octave spectrum analyzer and parametric equalizer is difficult to dial in.
Again, have fun… ‘cause it’s all about the journey.

Hold your horses there big man. That is a huge step for a first timer. Although quite nice, the OP really was looking for an option that he could build, plug, and play. It is obviously not that easy, but getting up to spectrum analyzers and such is perhaps once he has sipped the nectar of truly "Good" LF...

Oh and please explain how a passive sub has better phasing issues than an active sub? This will be a new one to me.

Want to find your room modes, download the room mode calculator. It's free

Want to find the f-3 of your speakers, and measure all kinds of other cool stuff? Go buy the OmniMic and start playing away smile.gif

Parametric eq's are nice! MiniDSP to take care of any and all EQing situations you may ever run across.

Edited by beastaudio - 11/1/12 at 7:16am
post #142 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

I read this whole thread, and didn't read an answer to the question "How do DIY flat kits sound compared to high dollar retail finished products?" I guess the short answer is "I don't know?" I'm thinking of buying an Hsu ULS15 for $1,100. Can anyone tell me - head to head - is there a DIY kit that will sound as good and save me substantial bucks? Like MrsOlearysCow, I'm not opposed to a DIY if I can get the same quality and save enough money to make the effort worthwhile.

I'm glad you asked this, as I have been contemplating the ULS15 as well, but also keeping an eye on this thread daily. What attracts me to the ULS15 is the enclosure size-- 18" H x 18" W x 18" D.

Every DIY build description I've read here so far tends to lean towards large (massive) volume enclosures, and I understand that probably accounts for some awesome sounding subs, but I am curious if it's possible to outperform the Hsu with a DIY at a similar size. Looks is also important as my first sub will be front left of my AV cabinet (and my cabinet is pretty wink.gif ).
post #143 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post

I'm glad you asked this, as I have been contemplating the ULS15 as well, but also keeping an eye on this thread daily. What attracts me to the ULS15 is the enclosure size-- 18" H x 18" W x 18" D.
Every DIY build description I've read here so far tends to lean towards large (massive) volume enclosures, and I understand that probably accounts for some awesome sounding subs, but I am curious if it's possible to outperform the Hsu with a DIY at a similar size. Looks is also important as my first sub will be front left of my AV cabinet (and my cabinet is pretty wink.gif ).

Bump it up just a shade to a 22" cube and you could fit two quality 18's in there and it would be a VERY serious performer. You want to go huge, put two LMS in there if the 22" depth is enough, otherwise, huskeromaha did it with some mach5 18's and he has heard just about every comparable commercial offering as well and still chose to go the DIY route...Now that he has it all up and running, I believe he is quite happy with it all especially with the coin saved by not buying a pair of caps or submersives.
post #144 of 325
I say let your sub "rise up". As long as it's only eating a small amount of floor space, a sonosub could go up to your ceiling height and give you the LLT experience (> ~8cu-ft working volume).

I built a pretty traditional MDF rectangular cabinet. It took me 8 months of weekend work to get them both finished. In retrospect, I would definitely go sono if I had it to do over again. Sooo much easier and lighter. With the driver removed, each one of my cabs weighs ~220lbs. I had to find a Real Man to help me get them upstairs.
post #145 of 325
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

I read this whole thread, and didn't read an answer to the question "How do DIY flat kits sound compared to high dollar retail finished products?" I guess the short answer is "I don't know?" I'm thinking of buying an Hsu ULS15 for $1,100. Can anyone tell me - head to head - is there a DIY kit that will sound as good and save me substantial bucks? Like MrsOlearysCow, I'm not opposed to a DIY if I can get the same quality and save enough money to make the effort worthwhile.

I'm ending up with a $300 investment and will spend about 3 hours total building. I've found the construction to be very easy, and see no need for pre-cut kits. The only real drawback I see is I'm certainly limited by my own craftsmanship ability as far as creating a visually appealing product. But as far as functional goes . . . 3 hours and $300 seems to offer a real solid result. I of course can't compare to a high dollar retail product because I'm not going to buy one. But I can tell you I'm super happy with $300 and can't imagine I'll be disappointed with the sound results considering there's only a driver and an amp, and both are highly recommended products that are regularly used together.

Fundamentally the retail folks are doing the same thing. They're buying a driver and an amp, then building a box around it. The key for retail is they're trying to figure out how to make it sound as good in a small box as it would without size constraints. That's been my reasoning in going DIY.
post #146 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Bump it up just a shade to a 22" cube and you could fit two quality 18's in there and it would be a VERY serious performer. You want to go huge, put two LMS in there if the 22" depth is enough, otherwise, huskeromaha did it with some mach5 18's and he has heard just about every comparable commercial offering as well and still chose to go the DIY route...Now that he has it all up and running, I believe he is quite happy with it all especially with the coin saved by not buying a pair of caps or submersives.

Why the need to bump it up to 22"? I think I could live with 15" drivers. Do you think a dual opposed configuration could fit in a 18" package? Would I really benefit from having 2 drivers in a cabinet instead of one, or is it better to build 2 cabinets with single drivers? I'm not too keen on all the wood working, as I don't have the means to cut 45 degree angles, and such... heck I don't even own a circular saw. I wonder if there are any pre-cut cabinet kits out there that would meet my needs.
post #147 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post

Why the need to bump it up to 22"? I think I could live with 15" drivers. Do you think a dual opposed configuration could fit in a 18" package? Would I really benefit from having 2 drivers in a cabinet instead of one, or is it better to build 2 cabinets with single drivers? I'm not too keen on all the wood working, as I don't have the means to cut 45 degree angles, and such... heck I don't even own a circular saw. I wonder if there are any pre-cut cabinet kits out there that would meet my needs.

BOOM!!! http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-1.html

Yes for 15" you could do 18" cubes, and as far as splitting them to seperate boxes, that works too, more you space them out around the room, the flatter your overall response will be. my point with the 22" cube, is that you needed that much space to fit two decent 18's in there!!
post #148 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

BOOM!!! http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-1.html
Yes for 15" you could do 18" cubes, and as far as splitting them to seperate boxes, that works too, more you space them out around the room, the flatter your overall response will be. my point with the 22" cube, is that you needed that much space to fit two decent 18's in there!!

Slick! Thanks for that link! cool.gif

Shame there is no kit for dual opposed 15's though... but I think one of those might just meet my needs. Where do you find speaker grills for those? Also, how do you finish them to make them look nice?
post #149 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post

Slick! Thanks for that link! cool.gif
Shame there is no kit for dual opposed 15's though... but I think one of those might just meet my needs. Where do you find speaker grills for those? Also, how do you finish them to make them look nice?

Grills could probably be had from parts express. The finish is entirely up to you. The rugged "meant to take a beating" types would go for duratex to coat the whole cabinet, it is kinda like truck liner. Take it a step up and you could paint them any other color you wanted then add clearcoat and sand in between. With enough work you could get a piano gloss finish...alas, it takes a LOT of work to get that. lastly, you could veneer it any way you wanted to with any style wood you could imagine. The sky really is the limit on how you want to finish it. I usually paint it flat black and shove it behind my screen, but im just going for functionality, not looks so much.
post #150 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Grills could probably be had from parts express. The finish is entirely up to you. The rugged "meant to take a beating" types would go for duratex to coat the whole cabinet, it is kinda like truck liner. Take it a step up and you could paint them any other color you wanted then add clearcoat and sand in between. With enough work you could get a piano gloss finish...alas, it takes a LOT of work to get that. lastly, you could veneer it any way you wanted to with any style wood you could imagine. The sky really is the limit on how you want to finish it. I usually paint it flat black and shove it behind my screen, but im just going for functionality, not looks so much.

beastaudio, thanks for the advice! I put together a quick list at PE (Crown XTi 2002, Dayton Titanic, etc), and came out with about $990 in parts *after* a business discount, and before shipping. It looks like I may just purchase the ULS15 after all. cool.gif I know that's guaranteed to perform as expected.

Sorry for the thread mini-highjack, OP! tongue.gif
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