Originally Posted by specd_out
In my experience it was my avr that was hurting me. I run Polk RTIa5 fronts and was powering them with Pioneer Elite VSX32. The Polks are fairly easy to drive and sounded decent with the Pioneer. When I got a separate power amp it changed everything.
Rule number one is that a modern amplifier in good condition is hard to beat with another modern amp in good condition. This is true at most listening levels even when there are big differences in maximum power output. This is similar to my other rule which is that passive biamping and biwiring at their best should only make subtle differences.
So what does it mean then people do some kind of comparison and obtain what they think are different results?
Well, there is always the possibility that one or both amps or the wiring have some kind of serious fault. With a modern AVR there are as many as 11 speaker cables connected to the AVR and the possibility of one or more of them being reversed and/or shorted is pretty good. I only say this because while I've been hooking up speakers for 55 years (back in the beginning there was only just one speaker cable!) I still triple-check my work because I still find faults on the third check. How many times have I found a cable with an attaching screw or nail shorting it out? How many cables got pinched and one of the conductors got broken? Stuff happens.
Moving on, there is the fact that actually doing good comparisons of audio gear is not as simple as audio dealers, most audiophiles and most ragazine writers make it out to be. You have to remember that they are in the business of selling equipment that "Sounds better", not doing Real Science. Real Science is the only way to obtain reliable, unbiased information. It requires that levels be matched within 0.1 dB from 20 to 20 KHz as measured at the speaker termainals, that the identical same music be listened to (edited within 0.01 second) and other bias controls be rigidly in place.
It was like my speakers where covered with a heavy blanket before. Bass was punchier, everything was more responsive and musical overall.
I believe that is what you perceived. Why, I can't say but the probability is extreme that I covered the reason why in the two paragraphs above.
Before I would have to have my sub on for all kinds of music (my speakers set to large), now I prefer to have the sub off.
If you do a good job of adding a good sub to a system, the results should be positive. Hooking up a pair of speakers is part of Audiophile 101. Getting a sub to work right is part of Audiophile 201, and not everybody who passes 101, passes 201. Trouble shooting a sub from thousands of miles is not a job I want to step up to, but as long as you are having big audible differences with an actually trivial amp upgrade and can't get a subwoofer to help the sound of your system, you're struggling whether you know it or not!
My point being is that while the marantz is a decent AVR its just not gonna have the power to properly move those 12's.
And where is that written in stone?
A technical analysis based on the available documentation (http://www.dynavoice.se/dynavoice-dynamite-12-v-2/67/
) of those speakers says that any AVR that can't make them blow you out of the room is incompetent or broken. They have 93 dB/W sensitivity! Unless their impedance curve is truly screwed up there should be no problem using them with any competent receiver, They are large enough and seem to have the right stuff in them so the manufacturer claims might even be a true specification. There are Sound Reinforcement speakers that are both smaller and less efficient!
This is what one reviewer said about some smaller models from the same manufacturer:
"The claimed sensitivity datum (91 dB), together with the low nominal impedance (6 Ohm) would suggest even low powered amplifiers can be successfully used."
This video shows what happens when a slightly smaller model Dynavoice is driven by a 10 wpc amp about the size of a cookie box:
Trust me, I know what 10 watt T-amps can do and while it is impressive with a big efficient speaker, it ain't nothing compared to a good AVR.
I would use your preouts and get a decent power amp.
This from someone who can't make a subwoofer work right? ;-)