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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 37

post #1081 of 8033
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mishari84 View Post

many people do not like gimmicks like dynamic iris, darbee or RC. I think pure 2D performance is the most important thing to evaluate.

before these processing methods were out (e-shift, darbee, RC) I would have agreed. There were some poor attempts at trying to improve the image.

These current processing methods have impressed some of the toughest purists because when used in moderation, they all do a nice job of improving the PQ. The larger the screen and the closer the seating distance, the more obvious these changes become. I haven't seen much negative attention on the darbee, it's quite the opposite - the vast majority of folks who have one like it.

I use the darbee with my W7000 and the RS55. Both very different projectors, but it helps with both equally.

Sony also have a great implementation of the DI, better than the Epson, or BQ. I haven't had a chance yet to watch 2D on the HC8000, but there are a number of iris's on this model as well.
post #1082 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I haven't seen much negative attention on the darbee, it's quite the opposite - the vast majority of folks who have one like it.
I use the darbee with my W7000 and the RS55. Both very different projectors, but it helps with both equally.
Sony also have a great implementation of the DI, better than the Epson, or BQ. I haven't had a chance yet to watch 2D on the HC8000, but there are a number of iris's on this model as well.

Have you experimented with the RC and Darbee together on the HW50? I've seen a few users comment about it either in this thread or in the HW50 owner's thread but I don't recall you mentioning it? Just curious what your thoughts are with this combo?
post #1083 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post

Have you experimented with the RC and Darbee together on the HW50? I've seen a few users comment about it either in this thread or in the HW50 owner's thread but I don't recall you mentioning it? Just curious what your thoughts are with this combo?

Look at page 1 post 2. There are screens to compare the differences. smile.gif
post #1084 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Look at page 1 post 2. There are screens to compare the differences. smile.gif

Thanks but I had seen that already and didn't see where Zombie actually commented on anything other than RC (default) and Darbee (30%)? I believe he remarked later that modifying RC to it's min rather than default setting made a drastic improvement but it wasn't clear to me how he felt about the addition of the Darbee after the change to RC?
post #1085 of 8033
What's the difference between the RS-4810U and RS-48U?
post #1086 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

What's the difference between the RS-4810U and RS-48U?

They are both the same except the 4810 adds one extra year of warranty for a total of three years as opposed to two on the 48. Also, the 4810 has specialized final quality control (which I still don't know exactly what this means, maybe someone can shed some light on it). Finally, the 4810 is only available through AVAD (a JVC distributor) and AVS store. AVS has special pricing on the 4810. Call them if you are interested.
post #1087 of 8033
Does Eshift make as big of a difference of regular DVD's as it does on Blu Ray's?
post #1088 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by englechgc View Post

Just pulled the trigger and ordered the Epson 5020UB from AV Science! I am replacing a refurbished Epson 8500UB which I have had for the past two years. The 8500UB replaced a Sony VPL-VW60. Can't wait to check out the 3-D!
I've enjoyed reading these shoot outs since got my VW60 5 years ago.
Was possibly considering a new PJ, honestly I got a Darbee Darblet and am amazed at what it has done for my image, enough that I'll wait 2 more years and let PJ technology mature more.
Great times to be a first time PJ buyer, so many great offerings out there.

Will be nice to see this shoot out final rankings to see where the leader trends are going.
post #1089 of 8033
To add to the choices isn't there a new Sony coming out ?
post #1090 of 8033
Still no report on HC8000D? Zombie, stop torturing us! smile.gif
post #1091 of 8033
Any reports of the new JVC's shipping? We are in the last week of November already.
post #1092 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatever1 View Post

To add to the choices isn't there a new Sony coming out ?

He's already shown a lot from the new Sony HW50 in this shootout. There will eventually be a replacement for the VW95, but that hasn't even been announced at this time and there is no release date. It is also in a completely different price bracket than most of the projectors in the shootout.
post #1093 of 8033
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya Volk View Post

Still no report on HC8000D? Zombie, stop torturing us! smile.gif

sorry, I have to wait until I get the 3D sorted out. This is a tough installation for my setup and only want to mount the projector once.
post #1094 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

sorry, I have to wait until I get the 3D sorted out. This is a tough installation for my setup and only want to mount the projector once.

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind doing a quick test for lag in the meantime? smile.gif
post #1095 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard011 View Post

Any reports of the new JVC's shipping? We are in the last week of November already.

Patiently waiting as well
post #1096 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard011 View Post

Any reports of the new JVC's shipping? We are in the last week of November already.

I know you guys have a time difference from the UK, but are the dates different as well? wink.gif It's not the last week of November until next week for us you see.


When I first ordered my X35 the dealer didn't know a firm date, though did suggest 'end of November' might be realistic. TBH I wasn't holding my breath, but I've still got my old RS10 to keep me going, though it would be nice to have the X35 in time for Christmas as I'll have plenty of time to enjoy it and run a few autocalibrations too.
post #1097 of 8033
Apologies - I guess i jumped the gun a little too early. rolleyes.gif
The anticipation is killing me ! Want it to be all ready by the time The Dark Knight is released. biggrin.gif
post #1098 of 8033
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Ghosting on my Epson 6010 is not bad at all. It's not 100% ghost free, but with a new bulb it looks great. At just over 1,700 hours, there's more ghosting, but it's still no where near as bad as the JVCs I owned at any point in lamp life. I think from Jason's comments, the new Epsons probably don't improve that much on 3D, but they were excellent from day one. The new JVCs are not out yet. I consider the JVC RS40 a very watchable 3D projector when the lamp is new. With just a few hundred hours, however, it's not. It's very, very bad, not just a little distracting. The JVC RS45, IMO, did not produce a respectable 3D picture even when the lamp was new. There were simply too many nasty instances of dark ghosting in any 3D film I watched, no matter the age of the lamp. The "improved" controls that were supposed to help ghosting performance did next to nothing. It was a serious disappointment to me, especially since JVC claimed to have improved 3D performance. IMO that was a lie, plain and simple. I'm really anxious to hear about ghosting on the new models. In dark scenes, 3D on the JVCs was the best I've ever seen, anywhere, on any projector or at any commercial theater! It's a shame it was crippled by the dark ghosting problem.


Joseph - Last night I had RS55 and the 5020 in the A/B setup. I was watching a movie called 'Equilibrium' (2002) with Christian Bale. This movie is filled with excellent dark scenes. The JVC really stood out with this movie in comparison to the 5020. In a number of scenes when blocking each lens respectively, the JVC's dynamic range was obvious, leaving the Epson looking a little flat where the DI can only do so much. There is still value for what JVC does best.

This leads me to the 3D part of this discussion. I haven't watched the RS55 in 3D since January. I decided to run some A/B between the 5020 and the RS55 in 3D. I started with Spiderman 3D. There's a ton of dark scenes in this movie. For some reason, I hardly saw any ghosting (Xpand 104's). The JVC looked significantly better than the Epson in this movie. The black levels and overall contrast were amazing and the Epson simply couldn't hang at the same level. I would say the HW50 is closer here than the 5020, so I'm not sure what's going on with dynamic iris in 3D..

I then went and blasted through a number of scenes including Step Up 3D (shot in native 3D), TinkerBell 3D, Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter 3D and some others. I was surprised how few times I saw the dark on light ghosting when watching the movie and following the action. My lamp has been run on 'high altitude' mode since new and is still very bright.

If JVC can nail down the dark on light ghosting, I'm going to get excited again to see the new models. The excellent native contrast and naturally sharp PQ stands out vs. the other projectors i've seen.
post #1099 of 8033
Hi Zombie,
Are you running this on your 2.8 gain screen ?
post #1100 of 8033
So your saying the JVC is better at 3d than the 5020? If this is true then I will definitely be getting the new low end JVC. I would like to be able to have the blacks of the jvc and good 3d in my room. I have a room that is a converted basement without any windows. On a side note I had a 133in acoustic screen that I tried to use with my Epson 8500ub but it caused serious moire to appear and I had to take it down. Would this occur with the JVC and would I have enough brightness to run 3d with that screen? Do you think the JVC is where I should go from here?
post #1101 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard011 View Post

Apologies - I guess i jumped the gun a little too early. rolleyes.gif
The anticipation is killing me ! Want it to be all ready by the time The Dark Knight is released. biggrin.gif

I'm getting impatient too, so there's at least two of us. smile.gif
post #1102 of 8033
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard011 View Post

Hi Zombie,
Are you running this on your 2.8 gain screen ?

yes, 142" 16:9 2.8HP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhunt17 View Post

So your saying the JVC is better at 3d than the 5020? If this is true then I will definitely be getting the new low end JVC. I would like to be able to have the blacks of the jvc and good 3d in my room. I have a room that is a converted basement without any windows. On a side note I had a 133in acoustic screen that I tried to use with my Epson 8500ub but it caused serious moire to appear and I had to take it down. Would this occur with the JVC and would I have enough brightness to run 3d with that screen? Do you think the JVC is where I should go from here?

hi, I'm definitely not saying the JVC is better.. the point is that the JVC has the potential for excellent 3D if they can fix the dark on light ghosting. Cine4home and some other trusted sources stated a noticeable improvement in 3D crosstalk on the new models which has some of excited to see the new models.

if the moire was there due to the wide pixel spacing, it could re-occur with the new LCD models, you won't know until you try. If you can wait a few weeks, i'm sure there will be plenty of reports on the new JVC's.
post #1103 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhunt17 View Post

On a side note I had a 133in acoustic screen that I tried to use with my Epson 8500ub but it caused serious moire to appear and I had to take it down. Would this occur with the JVC and would I have enough brightness to run 3d with that screen? Do you think the JVC is where I should go from here?

The moire is caused by the weave of the screen (I think matching to the pixel spacing of the LCD??), I assume it's a weave? If it is a weave and are using a LCD, the weave has to be tilted or tilt cut to eliminate this effect.
post #1104 of 8033
If only JVC would improve input lag in a drastic way! Best 2D picture and black levels, acceptable 3D and acceptable gaming performance... On the other hand, even if they shave off 30ms, the lag would still be 50ms or so.
post #1105 of 8033
How much tilt does the screen need to have. I have an epson and wondered if the problem was caused by the wide pixels. I built the screen myself so there is room for me to tilt the material a little bit. Is there a certain amount of tilt or is it a trial an error thing
post #1106 of 8033
I think in the JVC philosophy their projectors are pure cinema machines. That's why they don't use DIs, they don't care about input lag and don't care much about the FI. It's there, but that's it.
post #1107 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhunt17 View Post

How much tilt does the screen need to have. I have an epson and wondered if the problem was caused by the wide pixels. I built the screen myself so there is room for me to tilt the material a little bit. Is there a certain amount of tilt or is it a trial an error thing

up to 20 degrees. I couldn't do a 20 degree cut because of my screen size but did as much as I could and have no moire issues. http://www.seymourav.com/screensDIY.asp
post #1108 of 8033
Would love to see the Panasonic AE8000 in this shootout. From the reviews I've read online it seems to fall right between the HW50 and the 5020. Maybe on par with the Sony.
post #1109 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard011 View Post

Any reports of the new JVC's shipping? We are in the last week of November already.

My friend who's buddy is an AVAD dealer just replied back to me and said they just got confirmation their first 4810 allotments are coming into IL. the first week in December (shipping next week).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

Does Eshift make as big of a difference of regular DVD's as it does on Blu Ray's?

It really does. These days I have a hard time bringing myself to watch my DVD collection (still at over 4K), but last weekend we watched a few movies with my Darbee RS55 combo and I will say after fiddling with the settings I was able to achieve a very watchable image. Darbee does make a difference.
post #1110 of 8033
I thought this was an interesting comment about the HW50.


"Let's say, hypothetically, the HW50 came without the reality creation software. Like the HW30, people would be complaining of a soft picture. I've seen a bunch of people complain about the optics of the HW30 and from what someone has told me who knows a Sony insider, the HW50 has a very similar optical system in place just like the HW30. In this Sony's price range the optics shouldn't be this bad. For $4-5K, most projectors regardless of display technology use a better lens. What Sony has done is a kind of dick move. Instead of spending the extra money on a better lens they implement software they had already developed and then tweaked for this projector. They are saving a ton of money because of this choice. The point I was trying to make before was that we shouldn't be okay with letting companies use this type of technology in lieu of sub par optics. What this shows Sony is that they don't need to put a good lens in the projector, all they need to do is use software to enhance the picture to add sharpness when there wasn't any there to begin with. I just don't want this to become a trend with projector manufacturers. Like I said, this could be a huge indicator that people will still buy a product in a certain price range even though the quality of the product isn't up the the standard that most other manufacturer's produce."

Just how "bad" are the optics in the Sony? Without RC does the Sony look soft?
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