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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 46

post #1351 of 8005
Are there any projectors with two 12 volts trigger. I have two screens one in 16:9 and the other 2:35, if I have only one trigger how can i switch between screens?
post #1352 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

the FI in W7000 does look good, nice and subtle. Can you play back 3D ISO's? Joseph Clark made a great 3D demo disk with 30, 80 and 100 IRE patterns in full frame packed 3D mode + a ton of other useful patterns. The 2D conversion works as well, but I like having it in native 3D too.

Has anyone ever gotten 3D ISOs to play on a PS3? I burned some 3D high def content to a DVD, & while the PS3 recognized the DVD, it didn't recognize it as actual HD media. It only allowed me to browse the disc & play the 3D file, but then it didn't recognize it as framepacked 3D & only played it as 2D...

Is the only way to play 3D ISOs via a PC? And then wouldn't you need the nVidia 3D kit to output framepacked 3D from a PC?

Also, do you have a link to the aforementioned ISOs?

Thanks!
post #1353 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grazza B View Post

That's a really good point re. The Hobbit. I do recall Zombie saying however that the FI in 3D mode ('low') on the HW30 wasn't as strong, so something has apparently changed. I would love to know if it could be tweaked.

+1

Actually I rarely, if ever, use FI on the HW50 at all b/c every setting is too high for me, 2D & 3D. Disappointing.

The only time I don't mind FI is for 3D IMAX documentaries or Planet Earth sort of stuff. As zombie mentioned before, FI helps w/ the perceived flicker (I wonder if the perceived flicker has anything to do with the Mach-Dvorak that Panasonic keeps talking about).

Would be great if there were some way to decrease the aggressiveness of FI.
post #1354 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiohobbit View Post

you misunderstood.
I didn't refer to commercial cinemas with the FI-comment. cinemas never-ever would use any image-"improvements" like FI or DI (that is why most cinema DLP-projectors only have an on/off CR of about 2000:1).
I thought of the true 48fps version of the movie in cinema against the 24p version of it in home cinema with an FI.
by the way: The Hobbit will only be in 3D in HFR (high frame rate, 48fps), not in 2D. And also there will be no 4k versions of the film either.
Formats that the Hobbit will be distributed in:
35 mm analogue (24fps of course)
2D 2k 24fps
3D 2k 24fps
3D 2k 48fps (HFR)
and well, also the so called IMAX-version, which is also only a specially processed version of the film, and it's also only in 2k 3D and probably 48fps. (The digital IMAX today is not real IMAX anymore.. just google "Liemaxx"....)
real D, that you mentioned, is not a digital movie format, it's only one of the different techniques used in cinema to show 3D content. There's also Dolby 3D, Xpand (Shutter) and special variants of real D, like real D XLS with the Sony projectors.

Yes I misunderstood your statement, but I understand how it will be offered. Theres a full theater listing below. I also understand what RealD is (passive 3D), I was just stating how its "offered" at my local theater. I plan on seeing the 3D HFR, even though I may hate it. Sadly no Atmos in my area (St. Louis). mad.gif

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/11/21/64780-complete-listing-of-theaters-showing-hobbit-hfr-3d-imax-3d-imax-dolby-atmos/
post #1355 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

From everything I've read here if I were to update I'd buy an Epson 6020. It has to be the best bang for the buck. I'm still amazed at what the 6010 will do, so I'll probably stay the course for another year, but who knows.

After being taken in by the JVC claims last year, I'm going to wait not only for the initial reports but also impressions about what the image looks like after a couple of hundred hours. The Epson 6010 is a great all-around projector and I doubt I'd see a huge improvement in the 6020. My 6010's lamp started flickering, but going into high lamp mode stopped that. I think it's just time to change it out for the spare one that came with the projector. That should eliminate the slightly increased ghosting, too. Another thing about the Epson is that it's warmup time to get the best 3D images is only about 5-6 minutes. Even when the lamp was new, I had to let the JVCs warm up for a good half hour before the worst of the ghosting improved.

Maybe by the time the reports are in, Red will have released their 4k laser projector. That's my biggest tech lust right now. biggrin.gif
post #1356 of 8005
Zombie why dont you make a comment the soap opere effect on 5020? is it very bad with low? can we turn off it?
post #1357 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post

Zombie why dont you make a comment the soap opere effect on 5020? is it very bad with low? can we turn off it?

I'm not zombie, but FWIW, I think MotionFlow on the HW50 is useless for anything but documentaries & animated material. Even in 'low' for 2D, it ruins the movie experience. That's my 2 cents.

I'd def like to hear from zombie how CFI on the Epson & Panny compare!
post #1358 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

I'm not zombie, but FWIW, I think MotionFlow on the HW50 is useless for anything but documentaries & animated material. Even in 'low' for 2D, it ruins the movie experience. That's my 2 cents.
I'd def like to hear from zombie how CFI on the Epson & Panny compare!

I feel this way about every version of FI I've ever seen on any TV. Ever.
post #1359 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

I feel this way about every version of FI I've ever seen on any TV. Ever.

If my memory serves me right, I found a Sony XBR8 LCD TV to have quite acceptable MotionFlow when set to 'Low' some years back. Can't remember the model or the settings, but it got rid of the motion judder in that pan scene when Heinrich enters Lhasa in 'Seven Years in Tibet' without adding any soap opera effect.

But every other implementation of it I've seen has been undesirable to me for movies.
post #1360 of 8005
I think the FI in low on 2D is pretty well done - it still retains a tiny bit of 24 frame jitter without smoothing too much. I happily use it for movies. I agree though that any more and it's not at all good - set to high it looks awful. I now keep the FI off for 3D for this reason. But I do like it very much in low for all 2D material. I'd also be happy with the aggressive FI in 3D for animation / sport, just not typical movie material.
post #1361 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I thought the VW95 was pretty much on par with the RS45/X30 as far as black levels go. Is that not correct? Also, do you use FI in 3D on your VW95? If so, you'll miss it on the JVC as FI isn't active in 3D. One reason why I've considered going from my RS45 to an HW50 is not only because of ghosting in 3D but also because motion looks poor in 3D. I just can't make the switch because I have a feeling that I'm going to miss the higher native contrast in 2D. Unfortunately, most people aren't overly picky about this and even on this forum I can't really get a good idea of what to expect.
I believe Joseph Clark switched from an RS40 to an Epson 5010 and was very pleased with the 3D upgrade it gave and the 5010 was good enough but did miss the higher native contrast of the JVC.

Great point about the lack of FI in 3D on the JVC. I forgot about that. Its very important to me (I run it on Low on the VW95) so I guess that means I have to sit out this round on the JVC and hope that the VW95's replacement (wherever that comes) can improve on the native CR. As things stand now I already have the DI very aggressive through service menu tweaks.

Regarding your question on the black levels, I think they are excellent overall on the VW95 with the iris particularly in dark scenes. In scenes where there is a brightly lit objects in half or a third of the screen set against and all black background, it leaves the black floor higher than I would like. This is particularly where I miss the JVC. Fortunately such scenes are fairly rare and overall I am very happy with the VW95. The only reason I am interested in replacing it is because, well, that's what we do around here. biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya Volk View Post

Excuse me, Nemo 3D is not just a "conversion" like "Alice in wonderland 3D" or "Clash of the Titans 3D", or any other fake 3Ds.
Nemo was re-rednered twice with two virtual cameras from two different points for each eye, like any 3D animation. So Nemo 3D is a 100% real 3D.

Right. Depth will be great I am sure. Although still not quite the same as a movie that is specifically designed (tastefully) with a 3D experience in mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

My LPE filter for the 5010/5020 6010/6020 finally came today! Sure looks like the real deal. I'll be starting up a thread with a complete analysis using an i1 Pro and Calman 5. Much thanks to AndyK48 for the translation of the instructions!!! Supposedly, according to the instructions, it bumps the native contrast on the 5010 up to 5000 from 4300. Also, the claim is around 1200 color correct lumens--in ECO. over 1600 in Normal lamp. I'll start the study when my new 5010 gets here in a couple days.

Looking forward to your study, and its great to know you'll be using calibration software to take objective measurements. 1200 color correct lumens in ECO mode versus how many without the filter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiohobbit View Post

...
I think the Hobbit-movies will be released as normal 1080 24p framepacked Blurays. Switch on the FI in 3D with the Sony and you'll get your 48fps... wink.gif

LOL.
post #1362 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Great point about the lack of FI in 3D on the JVC. I forgot about that. Its very important to me (I run it on Low on the VW95) so I guess that means I have to sit out this round on the JVC and hope that the VW95's replacement (wherever that comes) can improve on the native CR. As things stand now I already have the DI very aggressive through service menu tweaks.
Regarding your question on the black levels, I think they are excellent overall on the VW95 with the iris particularly in dark scenes. In scenes where there is a brightly lit objects in half or a third of the screen set against and all black background, it leaves the black floor higher than I would like. This is particularly where I miss the JVC. Fortunately such scenes are fairly rare and overall I am very happy with the VW95. The only reason I am interested in replacing it is because, well, that's what we do around here. biggrin.gif...

Thanks for the comments. I hadn't thought about how the DI works in the particular type of scene mentioned. The VW95 replacement sounds very interesting but initially it will be more than I want to spend. And yeah, many of us are obsessed around here. smile.gif
post #1363 of 8005
For those asking about the fi on the 5020..here are my thoughts...on the low setting I can hardly see any soap opera effect at all, if any..on medium and high settings its pretty distinct on both..high being over the top.. however..all three cause a pretty good amount of stuttering. On low the stuttering is mild but noticeable, on medium it is a little bit worse, but on high it is very noticeable, almost unwatchable. I hope epson comes out with a f/w update to fix this. But although its got severe stuttering on high setting, I think it looks awesome with animation like pixar movies! just very stuttery. confused.gif and of course you can turn it off!
Edited by dagameballa - 11/27/12 at 3:24pm
post #1364 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagameballa View Post

For those asking about the fi on the 5020..here are my thoughts...on the low setting I can hardly see any soap opera effect at all, if any..on medium and high settings its pretty distinct on both..high being over the top.. however..all three cause a pretty good amount of stuttering. On low the stuttering is mild but noticeable, on medium it is a little bit worse, but on high it is very noticeable, almost unwatchable. I hope epson comes out with a f/w update to fix this. But although its got severe stuttering on high setting, I think it looks awesome with animation like pixar movies! just very stuttery. confused.gif and of course you can turn it off!

Sometimes the FI on the HW50 stutters as well, but it's pretty rare, generally. By stuttering I mean literally dropping a frame (or more) every now and then.
post #1365 of 8005
For my HW30, I could get any part of the screen in-focus at a time by adjusting the foucs ring on the unit. However, no setting could give me get uniform focus across the entire screen when displaying test patterns.

Having said that, @ my normal viewing distance (1.7x screen width), I never notice non-uniform focus issues in movies viewing.
post #1366 of 8005
post #1367 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post


Looking forward to your study, and its great to know you'll be using calibration software to take objective measurements. 1200 color correct lumens in ECO mode versus how many without the filter?
LOL.

Around 500 to get accurate color I think. I'll be posting before and after for sure.
post #1368 of 8005
@zombie10k
Did you tried the auto iris of the 5020? It looks like there is no difference between iris on and off. If you activate the iris the picture changed for a millisecond and then you will see no difference to iris off. Could you please confirm this? Maybe a firmware bug?
post #1369 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Here's the Mits 7900 review:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/mitsubishi/hc7900dw/index.php
Quote:
In the Mitsubishi projector line-up, the HC7900DW is straddled by their new LCoS based HC8000D projector on the high end of performance, and the rather vintage (now under $1500) HC4000 on the low.
:facepalm:
Edited by Elix - 11/28/12 at 12:32am
post #1370 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

:facepalm:

Maybe he meant the 9000?
post #1371 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

Maybe he meant the 9000?
HC9000D is not new. And he forgot about HC7800D.
post #1372 of 8005
Life is so much getting used to it.

We got used to low lumen CRTs FPs, now high lumen difital prpjectors and screens that have so much gain they would rival certain telescope mirrors, we get used to screen texture, very limited color spaces as opposed to the real world of color, we get used to less than ideal almost everything. The great part of this is that we indeed do get used to it and find it quite enjoyable even though we some bitch to high hell about much of it with many screaming they can't get used to it. That's the problem about hanging here, you lose your ability to get used to it, X becomes s a flaw that you can get used to. And I am having a great deal of trouble getting used tothat. smile.gif
post #1373 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Life is so much getting used to it.
We got used to low lumen CRTs FPs, now high lumen difital prpjectors and screens that have so much gain they would rival certain telescope mirrors, we get used to screen texture, very limited color spaces as opposed to the real world of color, we get used to less than ideal almost everything. The great part of this is that we indeed do get used to it and find it quite enjoyable even though we some bitch to high hell about much of it with many screaming they can't get used to it. That's the problem about hanging here, you lose your ability to get used to it, X becomes s a flaw that you can get used to. And I am having a great deal of trouble getting used tothat. smile.gif

+1

You have summed up it all up in one short paragraph - the meaning of life here at the AVS Forum.

The other interesting thing is that even if we don't like something, we can learn to like it if the price is right! biggrin.gif
Edited by Deja Vu - 11/28/12 at 9:38am
post #1374 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

HC9000D is not new. And he forgot about HC7800D.

the 8000 is DLP or why would PC write this?

"6x speed color wheel. The HC8000D-BL uses a six-segment RGBRGB color wheel. By default, the color wheel is 4x speed, meaning that each color is refreshed four times per frame. However, at the cost of a tiny amount of color gradation, you can switch the projector into 6x speed mode, thereby reducing the chances you'd ever see a rainbow artifact to just about zero. And the evidence of reduced color gradation appears so rarely that it is not worth worrying about. We were not able to detect it during testing. This feature is only available in 2D."
post #1375 of 8005
I'm a complete noob and this may be a stupid question but how does the picture quality of any of these projectors compare to a Panasonic plasma VT series?
post #1376 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

+1
You have summed up it all up in one one short paragraph - the meaning of life here at the AVS Forum.

The other interesting thing is that even if we don't like something, we can learn to like it if the price is right! biggrin.gif

that's easy to say when you have 25k projector and a very expensive screen to avoid the things that bother some folks on the lower end equipment.

If we all had VW1000's and Snomatte 100's we could shut down the thread...


except ~1000 lumens in 3D on a large, low gain screen does not = good 3D IMO... biggrin.gif
post #1377 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UdoG View Post

@zombie10k
Did you tried the auto iris of the 5020? It looks like there is no difference between iris on and off. If you activate the iris the picture changed for a millisecond and then you will see no difference to iris off. Could you please confirm this? Maybe a firmware bug?

Hi, yes, I commented on this early on. On very dark scenes, it didn't look like the iris was doing much of anything. With the iris turned on in 3D, same thing. That's why it was surprising that the HW50 looked better (contrast wise) in 3D vs. the 5020.

I'll post my firmware version the next time I fire up the 5020 for comparison.
post #1378 of 8005
OK - thanks!
post #1379 of 8005
Just got home with my JVC X35. So far not good at all:

1. There is a VERY BIG focus problem at the left bottom of the screen (approx 10-15% of the screen)
2. Lamp flickering in LOW lamp mode.
post #1380 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

Just got home with my JVC X35. So far not good at all:
1. There is a VERY BIG focus problem at the left bottom of the screen (approx 10-15% of the screen)
2. Lamp flickering in LOW lamp mode.

That happened to my first RS55 last year, the replacement was flawless. My guess is it got knocked around in shipping.

Will your dealer easily replace it?
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