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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 55

post #1621 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The RS46's from AVScience are shipping tomorrow.. nice! The 56's and 4810's will be here soon. biggrin.gif
We'll start with the RS46 this weekend. The new glasses / RF transmitter are a few days behind so i'll try it with the Xpand 104's and the Monster Vision 3D's for now.

Awesome, awesome, awesome!! :Cue Christmas Music: "It's the most wonderful tiiiiiiiime of the yearrrrrr" biggrin.gif
post #1622 of 8005
Wow, my brand new 5020 just damn near fell apart. Had it on a box till the ceiling mount came. Convergence wasn't to bad, not great but it adjusted out with minor tweaks. White screen uniformity was perfect. Focus uniformity was OK. Turned it upside down to mount it, turned it on, wow! Convergence just fell apart. Like 4 or 5 pixels off everywhere, both red and blue. Focus uniformity became horrible. Right side of the screen in focus, left is so bad you can't even see the pixels. And of course, Best Buy has none in stock anywhere around. I don't want a refurb on a unit just a couple of days old. mad.gif

Also, my gear driven Peerless is a POS. Everything about it is really nice, except for one fatal flaw. The quick disconnect part is so loose that the PJ can just rock around a considerable amount. Any vibration, like say a subwoofer, and the image just rocks around. I had an el cheapo mount on my 8700. PITA to adjust, but no vibration, ever. mad.gif
post #1623 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

Also, my gear driven Peerless is a POS. Everything about it is really nice, except for one fatal flaw. The quick disconnect part is so loose that the PJ can just rock around a considerable amount. Any vibration, like say a subwoofer, and the image just rocks around. I had an el cheapo mount on my 8700. PITA to adjust, but no vibration, ever. mad.gif

Sorry to hear about your projector. That sucks. Mind me asking which Peerless mount you have. Is it the PRG or the Arakno PAG. I was thinking about purchasing one but couldn't decide between the two. thanks.
post #1624 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

So how's that calibration coming along? tongue.gif

It looks great. I like how 3D looks after the colors are corrected for the tint of the glasses. it looks more natural, especially when watching non-animations. The third screenshot is 'Step-up' 3D which was shot in Native 3D. They used some very creative techniques in this movie and there's a number of fun 'show off the 3D projector' scenes.


HW50, Factory Sony glasses, left eye

HW50-3DCAL-0-.jpg

HW50-3DCAL-1-.jpg

HW50-3DCAL-8-.jpg


Once the gamma was set, I checked out some scenes in The Dark Knight Rises. This looks great overall on the HW50 with the RC toned down a bit.

Imax scenes look very nice on the 142" 2.8HP screen. I wish the movie was better... cool.gif


HW50-3DCAL-9-.jpg

HW50-3DCAL-11-.jpg

HW50-3DCAL-13-.jpg

HW50-3DCAL-14-.jpg

This Sean Connery voice synthesizer is working perfect.

HW50-3DCAL-15-.jpg

HW50-3DCAL-10-.jpg

HW50-3DCAL-12-.jpg
post #1625 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsbuyer View Post

Sorry to hear about your projector. That sucks. Mind me asking which Peerless mount you have. Is it the PRG or the Arakno PAG. I was thinking about purchasing one but couldn't decide between the two. thanks.

It's the PRG. It could be an awesome mount. The gear driven adjustments are really nice. But there is just WAY too much play in the quick disconnect. They have a retaining screw, but nothing that actually tightens up the connection in the disconnect. Other than that, I love the mount. It's just that it's so loose, the picture vibrates even if my wife is just walking around upstairs. And it's mounted to wood which is bolted directly to a heavy steel I beam that holds up the house. With a better disconnect system it would be perfect.
post #1626 of 8005
Yes just received invoice about my r46 as well
post #1627 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Once the gamma was set, I checked out some scenes in The Dark Knight Rises. This looks great overall on the HW50 with the RC toned down a bit.
Imax scenes look very nice on the 142" 2.8HP screen. I wish the movie was better... cool.gif
HW50-3DCAL-12-.jpg

Re: TDKR, I agree and wish it was better. Seeing your screenshot above, I hadn't noticed it was Anne H with him. I had heard about "the scene" with her on the bike (02:12:20) ... I am now a fan of JVC black levels (and AH). tongue.gif
post #1628 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagameballa View Post

Zombie I watched paranorman in 3d this last weekend on my 5020 saw zero ghosting in any scene, great movie and I agree it may be my reference movie now along with madagascar 3!

I was surprised to read that you and Jason really liked Paranorman in 3D. I watched it on my VW95 and thought it was too dark, bland, and didn't have much depth or interesting stuff going on in 3D. Also I thought the story was uninteresting and actually stopped watching it half-way through (which is something I rarely do with movies). Normally my experience in 3D on the VW95 is exceptional with all the major hits often cited here and elsewhere, and with plenty of brightness and lots of depth. Maybe this movie is just too dark for the VW95.
post #1629 of 8005
I have recently moved in to a new house with a dedicated home theater that is ready to be outfit and I am tremendously excited to get the process started. I began doing my serious 'research' a little over a month ago and my head was swimming with all the different aspects being reviewed and opinions that are out there. Each of the models I have narrowed my choice down to seems to have good reviews and some bad reviews. Then I stumbled across AVS and this thread.....let's just say I have no idea which way is up or down any more. This is my first post in a forum such as this so if I need to look elsewhere for advice please just be gentle while telling me to get lost! biggrin.gif

Is there anyone out there that would mind chiming in on which projector you think is best for my situation? As stated my room is a dedicated home theater with controlled lighting and I will be sitting approximately 12 - 13' away from the screen if I ever get this d*mn thing set up. We will be using the projector for movies, sports and gaming (mostly FPS such as Halo and COD/MW.....and my son will probably try to play the God-awful Minecraft if he can get me off the 360). Currently I do not have 3D or even Blu Ray as I was waiting for this sort of a scenario to begin upgrading my movie collection and hardware, so I am thinking 3D is a must for me. I think I have narrowed it down to these projectors (listed in current order of preference):

1. Sony HW50 - Seems to have everything the 5020 has with acceptable lag

2. Panasonic PT-AE800 - Have seen negative reviews about former models w/ lens problems (?) and their customer service is supposedly horrid - but Projector People keep suggesting this projector

3. Epson 5020UBe - I loved everything I read about the 5020 and was about to pull the trigger but then came the lag time issue in this thread....so I am thinking this one is off the list unfortunately

4. Mitsubishi HC8000D - Haven't read up a ton on this one but the little I have read it seems to be a viable candidate

I would appreciate any suggestions as I am wanting to surprise my kids for Christmas on this if I can get it pulled off in time. Thanks in advance.

Clint
post #1630 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusedNewbie View Post

I have recently moved in to a new house with a dedicated home theater that is ready to be outfit and I am tremendously excited to get the process started. I began doing my serious 'research' a little over a month ago and my head was swimming with all the different aspects being reviewed and opinions that are out there. Each of the models I have narrowed my choice down to seems to have good reviews and some bad reviews. Then I stumbled across AVS and this thread.....let's just say I have no idea which way is up or down any more. This is my first post in a forum such as this so if I need to look elsewhere for advice please just be gentle while telling me to get lost! biggrin.gif
Is there anyone out there that would mind chiming in on which projector you think is best for my situation? As stated my room is a dedicated home theater with controlled lighting and I will be sitting approximately 12 - 13' away from the screen if I ever get this d*mn thing set up. We will be using the projector for movies, sports and gaming (mostly FPS such as Halo and COD/MW.....and my son will probably try to play the God-awful Minecraft if he can get me off the 360). Currently I do not have 3D or even Blu Ray as I was waiting for this sort of a scenario to begin upgrading my movie collection and hardware, so I am thinking 3D is a must for me. I think I have narrowed it down to these projectors (listed in current order of preference):
1. Sony HW50 - Seems to have everything the 5020 has with acceptable lag
2. Panasonic PT-AE800 - Have seen negative reviews about former models w/ lens problems (?) and their customer service is supposedly horrid - but Projector People keep suggesting this projector
3. Epson 5020UBe - I loved everything I read about the 5020 and was about to pull the trigger but then came the lag time issue in this thread....so I am thinking this one is off the list unfortunately
4. Mitsubishi HC8000D - Haven't read up a ton on this one but the little I have read it seems to be a viable candidate
I would appreciate any suggestions as I am wanting to surprise my kids for Christmas on this if I can get it pulled off in time. Thanks in advance.
Clint

For your intended use, I'd go for the HC8000D if its lag ends up being as good as the HW50, but only if:

1. you will ceiling mount it because of its offset throw angle
2. you don't mind the (presumably) dimmer light output and won't watch/game with lights on
3. you want to save a lot of $ because the Sony is priced ~25% higher.
4. you won't mind the louder operating fan
post #1631 of 8005
Here's Krain's review of the Epson 6020. He gave both the 6020 and the Sony HW50 5 out of 5 stars. The JVC 55 he gave 4/5. The cheap Benq 1070 got 4 1/2 stars out of 5. Duh! He also reported ghosting with the Benq DLP! (??)

http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audiovideohd.fr%2Ftests%2F350-Epson-EH-TW9100-0.html

The Sony and Epson look pretty good. Where I am the Epson is considerably cheaper, but the Sony is on my short list if I decide to add another toy to the stable.


BTW -- I liked the latest Batman movie much, much better than the previous one -- it saved the franchise for me!
post #1632 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

I was surprised to read that you and Jason really liked Paranorman in 3D. I watched it on my VW95 and thought it was too dark, bland, and didn't have much depth or interesting stuff going on in 3D. Also I thought the story was uninteresting and actually stopped watching it half-way through (which is something I rarely do with movies). Normally my experience in 3D on the VW95 is exceptional with all the major hits often cited here and elsewhere, and with plenty of brightness and lots of depth. Maybe this movie is just too dark for the VW95.

My thoughts exactly. I couldn't make it to the end.
post #1633 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn View Post

For your intended use, I'd go for the HC8000D if its lag ends up being as good as the HW50, but only if:
1. you will ceiling mount it because of its offset throw angle
2. you don't mind the (presumably) dimmer light output and won't watch/game with lights on
3. you want to save a lot of $ because the Sony is priced ~25% higher.
4. you won't mind the louder operating fan

Thanks for the input, I am going to ceiling mount it, lights will not be on the vast majority of the time and if they are on they will be very dim, the price is definitely a factor, and I am guessing the noise must not be that much of a distraction or I would have seen posts about it (at least hoping that's the case). Thanks again for taking the time!
post #1634 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

It looks great. I like how 3D looks after the colors are corrected for the tint of the glasses. it looks more natural, especially when watching non-animations. The third screenshot is 'Step-up' 3D which was shot in Native 3D. They used some very creative techniques in this movie and there's a number of fun 'show off the 3D projector' scenes.
HW50, Factory Sony glasses, left eye
HW50-3DCAL-0-.jpg
HW50-3DCAL-1-.jpg
HW50-3DCAL-8-.jpg
Once the gamma was set, I checked out some scenes in The Dark Knight Rises. This looks great overall on the HW50 with the RC toned down a bit.
Imax scenes look very nice on the 142" 2.8HP screen. I wish the movie was better... cool.gif
HW50-3DCAL-9-.jpg
HW50-3DCAL-11-.jpg
HW50-3DCAL-13-.jpg
HW50-3DCAL-14-.jpg
This Sean Connery voice synthesizer is working perfect.
HW50-3DCAL-15-.jpg
HW50-3DCAL-10-.jpg
HW50-3DCAL-12-.jpg

These shots look unreal. I can't blv you can get such amazing picture quality via home projection system (of course, I have not seen a lot of stuff on projectors). Brilliant. I finally invested in 5020UB. I'd be happy if my picture is even close to this. I considered Sony a lot but Epson fit my needs better, for about 600 less (yes cost turned out to be another factor in the end).
post #1635 of 8005
That's great. Do you (or anyone else) know if there are any other glasses that will work with the JVC RF emitter? JVC's are pretty pricey.
post #1636 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Here's Krain's review of the Epson 6020. He gave both the 6020 and the Sony HW50 5 out of 5 stars. The JVC 55 he gave 4/5. The cheap Benq 1070 got 4 1/2 stars out of 5. Duh! He also reported ghosting with the Benq DLP! (??)
http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audiovideohd.fr%2Ftests%2F350-Epson-EH-TW9100-0.html
The Sony and Epson look pretty good. Where I am the Epson is considerably cheaper, but the Sony is on my short list if I decide to add another toy to the stable.
BTW -- I liked the latest Batman movie much, much better than the previous one -- it saved the franchise for me!

His JVC 55 review was on a pre production unit. It will be interesting to see how he rates a production unit. The lower brightness on the pre production is a bit of a worry. Hopefully we can get some production unit lumen measurements soon.
post #1637 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by fingersdlp View Post

His JVC 55 review was on a pre production unit. It will be interesting to see how he rates a production unit. The lower brightness on the pre production is a bit of a worry. Hopefully we can get some production unit lumen measurements soon.

Kraine posted some production unit R46 numbers:

939 lumens @ high lamp
717 lumens @ normal lamp

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1442525/official-jvc-dla-rs46-dla-x35-owners-thread/30#post_22662308
post #1638 of 8005
Thread Starter 
The RS46 will be here tomorrow. I'll post the 3D lumen measurements as well, not sure if this info is out there yet.
post #1639 of 8005
Cant wait to see your report on the 46. It will be interesting to see if the ghosting and flicker issues have been solved.
post #1640 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

Wow, my brand new 5020 just damn near fell apart. Had it on a box till the ceiling mount came. Convergence wasn't to bad, not great but it adjusted out with minor tweaks. White screen uniformity was perfect. Focus uniformity was OK. Turned it upside down to mount it, turned it on, wow! Convergence just fell apart. Like 4 or 5 pixels off everywhere, both red and blue. Focus uniformity became horrible. Right side of the screen in focus, left is so bad you can't even see the pixels. And of course, Best Buy has none in stock anywhere around. I don't want a refurb on a unit just a couple of days old. mad.gif
Also, my gear driven Peerless is a POS. Everything about it is really nice, except for one fatal flaw. The quick disconnect part is so loose that the PJ can just rock around a considerable amount. Any vibration, like say a subwoofer, and the image just rocks around. I had an el cheapo mount on my 8700. PITA to adjust, but no vibration, ever. mad.gif

Kudos to both Best Buy and Epson. Epson offered to overnight a Brand new replacement--not a refurb. Best Buy was out of the 5020 nationwide, so they upgraded me to a 5020e--no charge. That on top of the deal they gave me on the 5020 to begin with--a partial price match to a cyber monday sale 5010--made for an incredible deal on the 5020e.

Peerless has yet to respond to the email I sent yesterday.
post #1641 of 8005
So can we get some consolidation as far as what is brightest and best pic quality 2D and 3D?
post #1642 of 8005
Zombie, I am sold on the Sony. That detail on the Avengers and the TDKR is unbelievable. By the way thanks for all of your hard work in this shootout, also the TDKR wasn't that bad. Bane was an awesome villain.
post #1643 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avrum View Post

That's great. Do you (or anyone else) know if there are any other glasses that will work with the JVC RF emitter? JVC's are pretty pricey.

I believe a member with a new X55 confirmed that the Xpand 104's work if you have the RF module attached to the glasses. I'd pick one up to test it but not sure where to buy it from.

it looks kind of big since it's going to be hanging off the USB connector at the back of the glasses.

post #1644 of 8005
I'd like to look at those stills shown below on my HW30... Can you provide the time offset (assuming you recall)? Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

HW50, Factory Sony glasses, left eye
HW50-3DCAL-0-.jpg
HW50-3DCAL-1-.jpg
post #1645 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The RS46 will be here tomorrow. I'll post the 3D lumen measurements as well, not sure if this info is out there yet.
Jason, would it be possible to post 2d lumen as well for both the JVC (when you get it) against the Sony.
post #1646 of 8005
Just a friendly reminder to some of the newer members . . . please don't repost the same pics in your quote replies... kills all of us on AOL's dial-up plan! wink.gif
post #1647 of 8005
Lol it does make my 4g data plan go up smile.gif
post #1648 of 8005
Well after quite a bit of thought I'm at the point where I need to make a decision. The RS46, HW50, or the VW95? I've seen the HW50 but not in an ideal setting. This evening I decided to put aside any pride and hit the local dealer again armed and ready to view. I brought Spider-Man, Iron Man 2, and The Amazing Spider-Man 3D with each movie for a specific test. The door to this room is glass so ambient light shines in but this time I brought two black curtains and the local store let me drape the curtains such that I closed the door and blocked the ambient light. A small amount of light was still coming from the neon blue lights off of two amplifiers which likely affected the picture very slightly but this time the room was ready for some testing.

My current Setup
JVC RS45 with roughly a 17'10" throw onto a Dalite 2.4 gain 119" 16:9 HP screen. The projector's lens is mounted ~5'. I have a low ceiling ~7.5' painted flat black with dark wall and black curtains in the front portion of the room but with light tan carpet. A nearby soffit is close as are two speaker columns which certainly wouldn't help with light reflection.

Local Store Setup
Sony HW50 roughly 15' throw onto a 100" 16:9 Stewart? Screen (uncertain of the gain). Similar room size with light colored ceiling tiles, Navy blue wall, and Maroon carpet. Ceiling was roughly 9 foot and the room width was slightly narrow.

Frame Interpolation
While Iron Man was a MUCH better movie than IM2 I used the Monaco scene to see how well the FI held up. I tested the Low and the Hi mode and I was pleased to see very little artifacts and smooth motion. Low mode didn't seem to inject too much of a video look while High was much more aggressive but still looked very clean. Overall, motion looked better than my RS45.

3D
My plan wasn't to specifically look for ghosting as quite frankly I feel that Zombie's tests are very detailed in this area and that there are enough similar comments out that I feel confident that the Sony is a good 3D performer. I've seen the HW30 last year and it looked nice. I'm likely not overly sensitive to flicker but it is noticeable to me on my JVC and besides the awful ghosting motion looks poor to me (I'm sure partially because I like more aggressive FI). Having said that I decided to test The Amazing Spider-Man in 3D. On my JVC the picture is dim in 3D and I see a bit of black crush. I'm typically one who chooses the most accurate factory setting the out of box and adjusts the very basic calibrations and such. Not only is FI disabled in 3D on the JVC but gamma adjustments on the RS45 are also grayed out. Since The Amazing Spider-Man is a darker / dimmer 3D movie I wanted to see how the HW50 handled it. After viewing a handful of scenes it's definitely a dimmer movie for 3D but it still looked very watchable on the Sony and I can see the movie looking MUCH better on a Dalite HP screen.

IMO, FI in 3D mode is a game changer. Motion was much more fluid and while flicker may have been present it looked so much better than what I'm seeing on my JVC. Blacks did look better on the JVC in comparison however to my eyes FI is much more important.
NOTE: When I looked at 3D in the store I forgot to see what setting the glasses were using. My 3D viewing of my RS45 is with my Xpand X104 glasses with the default settings which I can't compare to the Sony glasses I used in the store demo because I forgot to check what brightness level the Sony glasses were set at. A lower setting may have yielded blacker blacks in dark scenes. Oops! redface.gifrolleyes.gifsmile.gif
I've read that many prefer the motion of the Sony without FI but the difference from having FI turned on and FI turned off was night and day.

Black Levels / Contrast

This is a tougher comparison to make since I have to compare by memory as well as the fact that the Sony is throwing onto what is likely a 1.1 gain screen while my viewing experience is an RS45 projecting onto a Dalite HP screen.

Having said that on bright scenes and semi bright scenes I didn't find myself missing the JVC when testing the Sony in this environment. Even on the non-gain screen the picture seemed about as bright and punchy as it did on the JVC/HP. Also, when the screen went completely blank black levels seemed to be just as good as my HP. Also, when only the Sony BD Menu was on screen (which is a black background with white text) black levels look just as good as my JVC and I didn't find myself unsatisfied in the least.

Now the tougher part. I'm pretty picky about black levels. Years ago I got into this hobby by purchasing a 61" Samsung DLP HDTV which had atrocious black levels and poor shadow detail. The scene that really hit me was the bridge scene in the first Raimi Spider-Man film. When MJ Watson is left on the bridge and the camera pans up the beams on the bridge can disappear if the image being viewed doesn't have good black levels. Also, much of this particular chapter will expose if a projector doesn't have good black levels. When I played this chapter I found that the HW50 handled this chapter fairly well. This is one area when I would have to say that black levels didn't look quite as good as the JVC. Details may not have looked quite as bright but the black levels looked like they could be a little better. I am picky. I have my iris set to -15 and I did set it to -7 as many do, and in this particular scene the difference is noticeable to me.

Sharpness

I don't have many comments other than to say the HW50 looked sharp to my eyes with RC set low like has already been mentioned. In general, I think the HP screen gives a higher perceived sharpness likely due to the increased brightness, but my guess is the HW50 would look similarly sharp to what I see on my JVC if it were to be placed in my home.

My Take

My projector is used for 100% movies. I probably one watch 1-2 movies per week and out of those movies is a high percentage of animated movie. Having said that most viewing is 2D but the percentage of 3D movies in my collection is growing. I typically watch movies like Marvel and such in 2D simply because they look much better in 2D on my JVC. However, with a good motion I may start watching some of these movies in 3D instead. I consider myself fairly picky about black levels but poor motion in 3D is a show stopper for me and for my taste even though 3D will be much better on the JVCs with the lessened crosstalk the issues with motion will not be addressed this year. This was not the case in the Sony. Motion looks very good on the Sony. The JVC has better contrast in 3D but for my taste the motion still takes from the experience. Unless I wake up feeling differently tomorrow I think I'm going to pursue the route of either the HW50 or the VW95 and hope that I don't regret it.
Edited by xb1032 - 12/8/12 at 4:57pm
post #1649 of 8005
Atleast you have local stores to do this
post #1650 of 8005
Zombie,

Just a couple questions if you could answer:

1. Have you seen 3D on the VW95? If so, how does brightness compare to the present JVCs in 3D? I know the HW50 will be a bit brighter but I'm wondering if brightness is as good or better to the current JVCS? I will be reading what reviews I can find but any additional opinions is appreciated.

2. If you have Spider-Man would you mind comparing the scene from the 1:39 mark to roughly 1:43 on the HW50 vs the RS55(or the RS46) mark and just state if black levels are noticeably darker on the JVCs? Comparing from memory I think the JVC with the iris at -15 (or -11 in your case) will be slightly but noticeably blacker. I'd love to be wrong, but I think my memory serves me correctly. I assume that this is where the benefit of the higher native CR without the use of an iris comes into play.
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