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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 61

post #1801 of 8033
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xood View Post

If in fact the X35 3D fix was done on some eeprom, the Firmware version would stay the same.

agreed. if this requires a fix with a special cable, it's not likely going to show in the firmware update.

Our 4810 will be here tomorrow, so we'll get a chance to see the 46, 4810 and the older 55 at the same time with the 3D scenes used in the shoot-out.
post #1802 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Our 4810 will be here tomorrow, so we'll get a chance to see the 46, 4810 and the older 55 at the same time with the 3D scenes used in the shoot-out.
Wall fly is barely able to hang on, the suspense is killing me!eek.gif ...and RS-56 arrives Friday! biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif (thanks Zombie for all the info on these forums - they made my choice possible!)
post #1803 of 8033
jvc Center call to replace my rs46 streaking problem. 1 week delivery.smile.gif
post #1804 of 8033
Having to send back a projector that I been waiting months sucks. I am a person that never really complains but this would suck.
post #1805 of 8033
Thread Starter 
The RS4810 is here. So we have the RS46, RS4810 and last year's RS55 for a bit of a JVC 'mini-shootout'.

I'm looking forward to seeing the e-shift 1 vs. e-shift 2, etc. Also 3D comparison, etc.

on a side note, I watched a few 3D movies on the Epson 5020 last night. Step Up 3D was shot in native 3D and is crystal clear with some great 3D effects during the dance scenes. This movie looks excellent on the Epson with no visible crosstalk. I went back and checked the scenes from Grand Canyon and Sammy's Adventures. The Epson's 3D performance overall is impressive. I would have liked to see the SR and FI in 3D, but this won't stop anyone from enjoying the 3D on this affordable projector.

Also, in regard to flicker, it's the closest I've seen to the 3D DLP. The 3D image overall is nice and solid, more so than the HW50 where I can detect some slight flicker out the corner of my eye, but this is subjective since I am very sensitive to refresh rates.
post #1806 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The RS4810 is here. So we have the RS46, RS4810 and last year's RS55 for a bit of a JVC 'mini-shootout'.
I'm looking forward to seeing the e-shift 1 vs. e-shift 2, etc.

Alright!! This is what I have been waiting for. Very interested in your observations of eshift1 vs. eshift2 and to hear if the contrast is better on the 4810 vs. the 40/46 even though they are all rated at 50,000:1. I unfortunately am one of the few who can't see 3D so I can't wait to hear your 2D pq observations.

Mike
post #1807 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Also, in regard to flicker, it's the closest I've seen to the 3D DLP. The 3D image overall is nice and solid, more so than the HW50 where I can detect some slight flicker out the corner of my eye, but this is subjective since I am very sensitive to refresh rates.

Again, this makes me think that flicker on the HW50 is due to the lamp pulsing.

Epson (confirmed by you) & Panasonic (confirmed by me) do not have any flickering in 3D.

Meanwhile, ghosting on the Panny is pretty poor. So in terms of ghosting:

Epson is better than Sony which is better than Panny.

Which makes me wonder what Epson has done to reduce ghosting if their panels are pretty much the same as what goes into the Panasonic (hence it's probably not liquid crystal response times that help Epson in the ghosting arena).

Would've thought Sony would've had the best ghosting performance due to the lamp pulsing (dimming the lamp as liquid crystals are switching).
post #1808 of 8033
I have a question regarding my power cord for my JVC R46.

The cord is not long enough to get to my outlet what do you suggest using ? Or can you order a longer cord?
post #1809 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

agreed. if this requires a fix with a special cable, it's not likely going to show in the firmware update.
This thought troubles me - if that is the case, then how do we tell whether a given unit has the fix applied or not (unless the fix has two parts, one of which includes an update to the ?29.001? system firmware version)??

I'm assuming here that the problem is a subtle one rather than a "3D is totally useless" one? I don't recall the reports saying in detail what the problem is beyond saying "there is a problem".
post #1810 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

I have a question regarding my power cord for my JVC R46.
The cord is not long enough to get to my outlet what do you suggest using ? Or can you order a longer cord?

You could buy a longer power cable from Monoprice. I would rather install a new outlet.

I have the opposite problem. I only need a 1' cable. rolleyes.gif
post #1811 of 8033
Well at first I planned on ceiling mounting so when I had the house built I added a outlet to the ceiling. Then came along zombie and the others and I decided to get a high power da lite screen. So now I have to wall mount in the back of my room.

This thing is heavy I'm going to have to rig something up to hold this dang thing.
post #1812 of 8033
Thread Starter 
and so it begins...

jvc-shootout.jpg



For those interesting in an affordable A-lens, this is the Panamorph CineVista Lens . It's a new lens in a much more affordable price range. I've always wanted to see one of these in action, so i'm excited to check this out with the new projectors. The BQ W7000, Epson 6020, All the JVC's and the Sony HW50 support the stretch feature.

This is a prelease version, the final will have a nice finished coating. I'll add some impressions on this lens over weekend.



jvc-shootout-1.jpg
post #1813 of 8033
It's a new look! The projectors aren't sitting on the pool table this time and the HW50 is MIA. eek.gifsmile.gif
post #1814 of 8033
Jason, Only thing missing in that picture above is the Sony redface.gif
post #1815 of 8033
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

It's a new look! The projectors aren't sitting on the pool table this time and the HW50 is MIA. eek.gifsmile.gif

don't worry, the HW50 is certainly part of the mix. I have another coming before the weekend.

RS46 on top, RS4810 on the bottom. Can you take the suspense? I'm feeling a little tired tonight..... cool.gif

jvc-shootout-2.jpg
post #1816 of 8033
Liar lol
post #1817 of 8033
Does the 4810 have the automatic lens cover?
post #1818 of 8033
Wow, that is a very affordable lens. Pending your feedback, this has be now waffling again on selecting a screen aspect ratio.
post #1819 of 8033
Interested to hear about this lens as it's been discussed a bit in the 2.35 forum. However, as it is their basic model it doesn't have the extra correction elements so there will be fringing towards the sides of the image which means you need to to use the zone pixel adjust to resolve, which in turn reduces resolution, so seems an odd thing to combine with a projector bought for having higher resolution to start with.

Be good to start seeing how you get on Zombie, though it's a little late for me now since I've already got mine (so I don't want to hear how much better the other models are than mine, right? biggrin.gif )
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

Does the 4810 have the automatic lens cover?

No it doesn't. (Or rather the X55 doesn't for sure).
post #1820 of 8033
I would like very much to see zombye´s comments on the diference of the 2d and 3d picture between the epson 5020, sony hw50 and jvc rs46. Brightness, color, black level, shadow detail, convergence and uniformity. About the SR vs RC vs eshift, i think i have another teory! I think all of them are based in sharpness algorythms and so whith an affordable HTPC we can easy have the same results or even better ones if you have a power HTPC. What costs an oppo we make an htpc. Me and a friend of mine compare a top of the line denon bluray that cost the double and my htpc, and the picture was way better and in that time we have not yet discovered the power of the sharpness algorythms. Bottom line for HTPC users, native sharpness between the epson, jvc and sony is the key for us to know who have the best picture quality possible in therms of sharpness when using a very good HTPC. Sorry about the bad english.
Thanks
post #1821 of 8033
Well I had a friend over and popped in a few Blurays just to see the R46... Amazing picture so far.. I am impressed with the quality... I am sure a calibration of the unti will push me over the top.
post #1822 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperReality View Post

This thought troubles me - if that is the case, then how do we tell whether a given unit has the fix applied or not (unless the fix has two parts, one of which includes an update to the ?29.001? system firmware version)??
I'm assuming here that the problem is a subtle one rather than a "3D is totally useless" one? I don't recall the reports saying in detail what the problem is beyond saying "there is a problem".
post #1823 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

don't worry, the HW50 is certainly part of the mix. I have another coming before the weekend.
RS46 on top, RS4810 on the bottom. Can you take the suspense? I'm feeling a little tired tonight..... cool.gif
jvc-shootout-2.jpg

Tease tongue.gif

But also let us know if you're able to do that splitter cable for MV3D use too.
post #1824 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgreis View Post

I would like very much to see zombye´s comments on the diference of the 2d and 3d picture between the epson 5020, sony hw50 and jvc rs46. Brightness, color, black level, shadow detail, convergence and uniformity. About the SR vs RC vs eshift, i think i have another teory! I think all of them are based in sharpness algorythms and so whith an affordable HTPC we can easy have the same results or even better ones if you have a power HTPC. What costs an oppo we make an htpc. Me and a friend of mine compare a top of the line denon bluray that cost the double and my htpc, and the picture was way better and in that time we have not yet discovered the power of the sharpness algorythms. Bottom line for HTPC users, native sharpness between the epson, jvc and sony is the key for us to know who have the best picture quality possible in therms of sharpness when using a very good HTPC. Sorry about the bad english.
Thanks

+1.
HTPC users don't need projector sharpening but sharpening systems seem to be the main focus of this years crop. Native 2D performance has changed hardly at all.
post #1825 of 8033
Reading about a HTPC having better overall image quality versus a dedicated player is not very good news for the players. This is not the first time I encountered this. I always had this feeling that PC videocards may have better frame buffers, circuit design and more precise decoding, because it takes place at a higher software level as opposed to a fix function decoder chip. I know that this is a very, very rough approximation, but a 100 dollars VGA has much more RnD going into video quality than a 200 dollars player. OTOH perfect cadency, seamless refresh rate sync, BD ISO handling can be a nightmare. Also one has to tweak drivers in order to avoid letting it enforce some additional colorspace processing. What can be gained though using a HTPC is video calibration via ICC profile. Kind of having a video processor before the display. I use my Z2000 like this with a profile measured on 480 points. Shadow detail and gradation became so natural that when a movie has film grain, it's like watching a film projector. OK, I understand that this ICC profile is still possibly a 1D LUT and is nowhere nere a 3D LUT box, but still, results are astonishingly good with my i1Disply 3 Pro.

Thanks Zombie10k for the JVC input lag test and having tried different inputs and settings! It is a letdown unfortunately. The JVC X35 brochure I linked before mentioned "minimal delay in games", and that gave me a little hope for actual improvement.
post #1826 of 8033
I'm not convinced that a HTPC offers any better BluRay playback than a standalone player: I know there were some players (Sony?) that didn't output correctly as they were messing about with the signal in some way, but AFAIK the Oppos (and most other players) playback correctly without errors. IMHO there is no need for sharpening on the BluRay output (though I admit some do seem to prefer a bit of ringing for the impression of extra sharpness). I think the trouble is that we seem unable to accept when we are achieving the best that the format can provide (at least for 1080/24p), hence new players coming out and would be buyers wanting to 'upgrade' for a 'better' picture quality.

In other words, I woudn't be too worried about being short changed with your BluRay player feeding whichever projector you end up with as IMHO it's the display, set up, calibration and maybe external video processing (for CMS and greyscale) that will impact on the picture quality far more noticeably. smile.gif
post #1827 of 8033
I ended up purchasing an Epson 5020 after reading through this thread (I really wanted the Sony HW50, but budget & wife dictated the Epson). I have some general questions about my new theatre room setup. To avoid getting this thread off-track, I started a new thread:
New Epson 5020 owner, Da-Lite HCHP 106" screen w/room, zoom, offset & placement questions

If anyone has the time or interest, please take a look at my thread and provide feedback.

Thanks!
post #1828 of 8033
While I wait for the larger comparison, has anyone directly compared the HW50 and RS46 for sports viewing? Outside of 2D movies this type of viewing would be at the top of my list.
post #1829 of 8033
Still waiting on the Mits hc8000 comparison (yes, I'm still here, just been busy at work and not wanting to start another nasty food fight)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgreis View Post

i think i have another teory! I think all of them are based in sharpness algorythms and so whith an affordable HTPC we can easy have the same results or even better ones if you have a power HTPC. What costs an oppo we make an htpc.

Well not to be repetetive, but the JVC has the best natural sharpness of those three. How much of a direct benefit that gives you as a viewer depends on your usage habits and how close you sit and how good your eyes are and how ultra-picky you are. The Epsons are still somewhat random on convergence, but maybe not as bad as previous years, and the Epson saves you some money. I don't think anything is going to change ALL that much from previous years comparisons unless the newer JVC has much better 3D (still waiting on that one). For the guy asking about sports, well Sony is better at fast motion as has been stated 100's of times, but I'd wait for Z's comparison to see if he notices it that much.

As far as sharpness algorithms on HTPC vs. a player vs. projector, well the more to play with the merrier, because you never know what combo will come out the best to your eyes or setup. That said you may be able to get it just exactly like you want it with only an HTPC, but it could take a lot of fiddling (which is always the issue with HTPC's). That is why those players that play from the HTPC are nice so don't have to mess with everything as much. The Darbee Darblet does things a little different than most sharpening algorithms I've seen, so you can't really replicate its benefit with an HTPC.
Edited by coderguy - 12/13/12 at 11:08am
post #1830 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

and so it begins...For those interesting in an affordable A-lens, this is the Panamorph CineVista Lens . It's a new lens in a much more affordable price range. I've always wanted to see one of these in action, so i'm excited to check this out with the new projectors. The BQ W7000, Epson 6020, All the JVC's and the Sony HW50 support the stretch feature.
This is a prelease version, the final will have a nice finished coating. I'll add some impressions on this lens over weekend.


Zombie, if you could test two thinks I'll be super grateful...

As a gamer i'm concerned about gaming 3D performance/ghosting at 60Hz (720p). Could you test this with JVC? Some users confirm that the HW50 failed in this aspect.

About Panamorph CineVista Lens, lateral color chromatic aberration was said to be a seriously issue, BUT that could be corrected with the zonal pixel correction. Please, see if the JVC correction can handle this issue.
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