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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 62

post #1831 of 8005
I have never been able to get a Blu-ray image out my HTPC quite as good as the Oppo 103 without sacrificing a chicken. Just sayin' . . .
post #1832 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie View Post

I have never been able to get a Blu-ray image out my HTPC quite as good as the Oppo 103 without sacrificing a chicken. Just sayin' . . .

There's your problem right there. The blu ray gods much prefer goats. They hate chickens...mainly because they taste like chicken.
post #1833 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie

I have never been able to get a Blu-ray image out my HTPC quite as good as the Oppo 103 without sacrificing a chicken. Just sayin' . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

There's your problem right there. The blu ray gods much prefer goats. They hate chickens...mainly because they taste like chicken.


biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
post #1834 of 8005
Regarding HTPC vs Blu-ray player, I have a HTPC which gives an excellent picture but to do the type of sharpening that Owen is talking about needs a fairly powerful or modern PC and a fair amount of tweaking with tools like ffdshow which can be a pain. I have compared HTPC sharpening with the darbee and I have not found a sharpening algorithm that does the same thing as the darbee (selective sharpening & contrast enhancement) or as effective.

Also to do calibration using ICC profiles will only work if the player software supports it, and the commercial software players which have full Blu-ray menu support don't (you can use software like Media Player Classic but its not as simple or integrated).

Fiddling is usually required with display drivers, custom resolution to get a completely judder free picture (at least in my setup).

Having said all the above, I still prefer the HTPC (with darbee) because of its flexibility and high image quality.
post #1835 of 8005
I have to reiterate my previous post. By image quality I meant an overall base quality and not different kinds of sharpening algorithms. Currently I watch movies from my Mac. While OS X is very limited in terms of driver tweaks and some settings can't be adjusted for the videophile, the calibration profile is system wide. If I create a general profile for a display all programs will use that by default. Profiles can even be changed on the fly. In Windows it's a real PITA, GUI overlay, GPU driver, applications can ignore or enforce their own will. For example lot of the games wipe the LUT immediately. In OS X I created a profile with X-Rite profiler in projector calibration mode. The difference is enormous, the image got more 3D POP overall.
post #1836 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by szepi0808 View Post


Thanks. Is that from the service menu? (I haven't picked up my X35 yet).

Can we take this part of the discussion over to the owner's thread?
post #1837 of 8005
OK. Did not want to offend the HTPC guys. I have a couple myself. They are very useful.

However, I didn't have to do anything to the Oppo for a great image other than to turn it on. It has a team of guys to make it better through firmware updates; it plays back my ripped mkv files nicely. Add the Darbee, and voila! no muss, no fuss. No ffdshow settings to mess with, no fussing with codecs for stubborn VC1 coded films etc.

What is not to like? I am sure it will look awesome with my RS4810 (when I finally can get home to get it out of the box and fire it up). Sigh.

Willie

Stuck in traffiic on Dixie Road in Toronto
post #1838 of 8005
You know Zombie, its just not right to hog all those beautiful displays all to yourself and not at least share some screenshots and impressions. Yes, im terribly impatient. tongue.gif
post #1839 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvrw2 View Post

Zombie, if you could test two thinks I'll be super grateful...

As a gamer i'm concerned about gaming 3D performance/ghosting at 60Hz (720p). Could you test this with JVC? Some users confirm that the HW50 failed in this aspect.

About Panamorph CineVista Lens, lateral color chromatic aberration was said to be a seriously issue, BUT that could be corrected with the zonal pixel correction. Please, see if the JVC correction can handle this issue.

I'm not much of a console gamer (old school PC Quake 2 / Unreal Tournament) but I think I have crysis on the X360. this was SBS if I recall. I'll see what other 720P 60hz content I have to test out.

When I get a chance, I'll spend some time with the CineVista lens and the JVC and report on the findings, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

You know Zombie, its just not right to hog all those beautiful displays all to yourself and not at least share some screenshots and impressions. Yes, im terribly impatient. tongue.gif

I will soon, I was up until 4am last night gathering a bunch of info, screenshots, etc. There's a few things I need to double check before posting my findings.
post #1840 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I'm not much of a console gamer (old school PC Quake 2 / Unreal Tournament) but I think I have crysis on the X360. this was SBS if I recall. I'll see what other 720P 60hz content I have to test out.
When I get a chance, I'll spend some time with the CineVista lens and the JVC and report on the findings, etc. .

When i asked i was not even thinking in consoles.... you must know better than me that 3D at 60Hz is limited to 720p. Unreal, Quake or Crysis in 24Hz/1080p must be unplayable (very slow refresh rate). I'm also more a PC gamer (first person shooter, real time strategy and some action rpg/diablo).
post #1841 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvrw2 View Post

When i asked i was not even thinking in consoles.... you must know better than me that 3D at 60Hz is limited to 720p. Unreal, Quake or Crysis in 24Hz/1080p must be unplayable (very slow refresh rate). I'm also more a PC gamer (first person shooter, real time strategy and some action rpg/diablo).

I doubt games are unplayable at 24fps. Most games on the PS3 are 30fps anyway... would 6fps make that big a difference?

Anyway, 60p gaming in 3D on the Sony is impossible. The ghosting is ridiculous. Would love to see if 24p 3D gaming (e.g. from a HTPC) would be playable in terms of ghosting on the Sony. I don't personally have the proper equipment (only a Macbook Pro).
post #1842 of 8005
I have a new Epson 5020 & new room/screen.

What's the best (easily available in the US) 3D BluRay's to pick up to test 3D playback?

Thanks.
post #1843 of 8005
The anticipation for me was set as AVS told me Saturday that my HW50 would ship Monday but when I called today for tracking I found out it they are out of stock:(. Would've been nice for a reply to my e-mail filling me in but mine is "supposed" to ship Monday. It'll be a real bummer if it doesn't ship as I'll have some time off late next week.

Looking forward to zombie10k's findings.
post #1844 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie View Post

Stuck in traffiic on Dixie Road in Toronto
Texting while driving in Ontario is illegal.biggrin.gif
post #1845 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholfd View Post

I have a new Epson 5020 & new room/screen.
What's the best (easily available in the US) 3D BluRay's to pick up to test 3D playback?
Thanks.

Depends on what you like. Avatar, The Toy Story movies, Monsters vs Aliens, The Universe - the History Channel series, Cars 2, the Imax films (especially Grand Canyon Adventure, the ocean documentaries). The Epson is a really good 3D performer. They'll all look great on it.
post #1846 of 8005
Thread Starter 
are you seeing the double image on the screen?
post #1847 of 8005
Thread Starter 
it should be 5 lights of green when it's 3D sync'd. Are you also supplying USB power to the transmitter as well?

on the IR JVC PK-EM1, are the xpand glasses programmed correctly for the JVC?
post #1848 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie View Post

Stuck in traffiic on Dixie Road in Toronto

Hey Willie, You were right where I work.
post #1849 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_hs10 View Post

Yes power to emitter. I also tried to placed the mv ir in front of the jvc emitter.
I like to get the monster vision to work as I have three and only one xpand.
Can you please tell me how to program the xpand for the jvc. Want to double check.

You hold down the power button I believe to put it in pgm mode then it should set at 6 flashes for the JVC.

http://3dglassesunlimited.com/xpand-x103-universal-3d-glasses-instructions.pdf
post #1850 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

The anticipation for me was set as AVS told me Saturday that my HW50 would ship Monday but when I called today for tracking I found out it they are out of stock:(. Would've been nice for a reply to my e-mail filling me in but mine is "supposed" to ship Monday. It'll be a real bummer if it doesn't ship as I'll have some time off late next week.
Looking forward to zombie10k's findings.


Surprised you were willing to jump ship at this point and not wait for his JVC reviews B4 final decision.
post #1851 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Surprised you were willing to jump ship at this point and not wait for his JVC reviews B4 final decision.

After being able to see the HW50 in a darkened room I got a decent feel for the projector and from what I saw it's in the ballpark with the RS45. The contrast might be lacking a little (only noticed it slightly on a non-HP screen), but the 3D was vastly better than my RS45 IMO. I know that when it comes to picking the RS46 vs the HW50 I am going to have to sacrifice something. With the HW50 lack of contrast is going to be the biggest sacrifice and from what I saw it looked fairly close. We'll see. With the RS46 even with very little ghosting and less flicker it's a certainty that without FI motion is still going to be lacking to my eyes. The Sony's have always been praised for better motion over the JVCs and when I viewed the HW50 with FI off I still saw issues with motion. Maybe I'm very sensitive to motion blur/judder/stutters but with FI on motion looked very smooth and I MUCH preferred this. The RS45 is very good in 2D and since the main reason I am upgrading is 3D I decided the Sony might be the best choice for me. Motion will be better to my eyes (since I do not find the video look objectionable as many do) and the picture should be a bit brighter. Hopefully I made the right decision. I'll find out once it gets here...
Edited by xb1032 - 12/13/12 at 10:59pm
post #1852 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

Regarding HTPC vs Blu-ray player, I have a HTPC which gives an excellent picture but to do the type of sharpening that Owen is talking about needs a fairly powerful or modern PC and a fair amount of tweaking with tools like ffdshow which can be a pain. I have compared HTPC sharpening with the darbee and I have not found a sharpening algorithm that does the same thing as the darbee (selective sharpening & contrast enhancement) or as effective.
Also to do calibration using ICC profiles will only work if the player software supports it, and the commercial software players which have full Blu-ray menu support don't (you can use software like Media Player Classic but its not as simple or integrated).
Fiddling is usually required with display drivers, custom resolution to get a completely judder free picture (at least in my setup).
Having said all the above, I still prefer the HTPC (with darbee) because of its flexibility and high image quality.

Actually it takes me about 15 minutes to setup a new PC for quality HD playback. Other than setting the output refresh rate to match the video type (film or video) there should be nothing to do in the drivers.
The use of video driver based sharpening should be strictly avoided as should the use of the "Sharpen" filters in FFDShow.

Sharpening should only be done using the upscaling method I have talked about previously, any other method is no better than using the sharpness control in the projector.
This method does not employ any kind of edge enhancement and does not introduce ringing, but a reasonably powerful PC and decent video card are required.

Unless people have seen this in action they are not in a good position to judge what is possible with PC video processing. No stand alone player can do anything like this, its more akin to what JVC E-Shift processing is doing.
Edited by Owen - 12/14/12 at 1:37am
post #1853 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

Sharpening should only be done using the upscaling method I have talked about previously
Excuse me, what method are you referring to?
post #1854 of 8005
My JVC DLA-X70 has some problems when playing....Anyone can help me? It shows red bars in screen sometimes, I do not change any setting, does it mean the projector something wrong?

IMG-20121214-WA0003.jpg 46k .jpg file
post #1855 of 8005





Sometimes the background changes red....
post #1856 of 8005
Check your HDMI settings. If it is on turn it off.
post #1857 of 8005
It is connected to HDMI already, and no change in HDMI setting, turned off will happen this?
post #1858 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

I doubt games are unplayable at 24fps. Most games on the PS3 are 30fps anyway... would 6fps make that big a difference?
Anyway, 60p gaming in 3D on the Sony is impossible. The ghosting is ridiculous. Would love to see if 24p 3D gaming (e.g. from a HTPC) would be playable in terms of ghosting on the Sony. I don't personally have the proper equipment (only a Macbook Pro).

Many games/styles are ok running at 24Hz, like the slow movement type (RPG, adventures, etc), but first person shooter i dont believe (never tryed). When you are running/jumping trying to shoot in many others running/jumping, 2.5 times less image actualization (24Hz vs 60Hz) plus 80ms lag from the projector must be a nightmare for aiming.

I read about your test on HW50 projector. It was frustrating! I did not expect perfection but not so weak performance at 60Hz. Movies (24Hz) will be my main use but I play PC games (60Hz) from time to time.
Edited by dvrw2 - 12/14/12 at 3:12am
post #1859 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelovecar View Post

It is connected to HDMI already, and no change in HDMI setting, turned off will happen this?

Check the HDMI setting which has the options for Auto / RGB / YCrCb 4:2:2 / YCbCr 4:2:2 try each setting as it might be that if your are in auto (default setting) then it isn't detecting the input properly. I just set mine to 4:2:2 as I know my Lumagen is set to output at 4:2:2 so it saves a bit of handshaking (I think) or at least less chance for a glitch like yours.
post #1860 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Excuse me, what method are you referring to?

A method I proposed to the forum 9 years ago. It involves using FFDShow to upscale HD 200 or 300% to 4K or 6K in software using a Spline algorithm that has the ability to enhance MTF (sharpen). The upscaled and sharpened image is then down scaled in video card hardware to 1920x1080 for output to the projector.
This produces a much cleaner and more natural result then conventional sharpening or edge enhancement systems, it provides a subtle but noticeable increase in focus, clarity and detail without looking artificial or edgy.
Those looking for an "in your face" sharpening effect should look else where as this method does not provide that look. All the systems that attempt to provide a strong sharping effect look ugly to me, subtlety is the key.
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