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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 64

post #1891 of 8060
I'm going to check Joan fabrics for some today then. Is this material acoustic transparent as well?
post #1892 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

I'm going to check Joan fabrics for some today then. Is this material acoustic transparent as well?

Nope.
post #1893 of 8060
Just a note for anyone with the new Epson 5020 or 6020 that uses RF (Bluetooth) 3D glasses - The Samsung SSG-4100GB glasses work just fine with the Epsons. These glasses are only $19.99 and can be found with free shipping form several sources. I have tested them with my new 5020 and they work fine. I haven't yet done any A/B testing with the supplied Epson glasses. I will be doing that this weekend.

$19.99 sure beats the $99.99 price for the Epson glasses!
post #1894 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post

We would like to see a comparision between sony hw50 vs epson 5020 zombie Please
Kind Regards

Good news!
Check out page 24. Zombie already has compared them.
post #1895 of 8060
Ok for my R46 I'm mounting on the wall today.

How far up should I go past the seats? I know it's best to keep at eye level.

But usually above the back of ones head does it still need to go higher then just above the head? I guess saying if in 6 foot tall would it be safe to say mounting 6 foot on the back wall would be ok? Because once you sit down you are not 6 feet tall anymore
post #1896 of 8060
It's only necessary to keep at eye level if you have a high power screen (to get maximum screen gain). Otherwise I'd found that JVCs give higher ANSI contrast with a bit of vertical lens shift applied. Before anyone then picks me up on loss of sharpness I can only say that my X35 looks pin sharp even with it level to the top of my screen, though admittedly a long throw with no zoom and particularly good convergence probably helps. Therefore I wouldn't worry about putting it high enough so that you and your guests can't hit their head on it. smile.gif
post #1897 of 8060
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

Ok for my R46 I'm mounting on the wall today.

How far up should I go past the seats? I know it's best to keep at eye level.

But usually above the back of ones head does it still need to go higher then just above the head? I guess saying if in 6 foot tall would it be safe to say mounting 6 foot on the back wall would be ok? Because once you sit down you are not 6 feet tall anymore

you don't have to get it down to the inch above eye level, a foot or so above the head (while seated) is fine at 18 feet from the 133" HP.
post #1898 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholfd View Post

Just a note for anyone with the new Epson 5020 or 6020 that uses RF (Bluetooth) 3D glasses - The Samsung SSG-4100GB glasses work just fine with the Epsons. These glasses are only $19.99 and can be found with free shipping form several sources. I have tested them with my new 5020 and they work fine. I haven't yet done any A/B testing with the supplied Epson glasses. I will be doing that this weekend.
$19.99 sure beats the $99.99 price for the Epson glasses!

Thanks! Can't wait to see that mini shoot-out. Sounds like a great option for guests! wink.gif
post #1899 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

Ok for my R46 I'm mounting on the wall today.
How far up should I go past the seats? I know it's best to keep at eye level.
But usually above the back of ones head does it still need to go higher then just above the head? I guess saying if in 6 foot tall would it be safe to say mounting 6 foot on the back wall would be ok? Because once you sit down you are not 6 feet tall anymore

You're also going to have to make sure that when you shelf mount that you mount the projector high enough so that you don't get hand puppets every time someone scratches their head since you will be projector over the front row. I would make some type of temporary stand whether it be sturdy boxes or whatever and test it out before you mount.
post #1900 of 8060
Thread Starter 
HW50 / RS4810 - just getting started on these 2, working on 3D first.

jvc-shootout-3.jpg
post #1901 of 8060
All current and past 5020/6020 owners, please go to this thread and complete the poll. It will take mere seconds to do. I'm trying to find out how many people are getting bad units. If it's a significant number I'll be contacting Epson with the problem. Even if you're totally happy, or even if you've given up and returned the projector, it's still important that you give us that information. If only unhappy owners respond, we won't have the full picture. Please!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1445525/all-5020-6020-owners-please-help-please-answer-this-poll-in-an-attempt-to-get-a-response-from-epson
post #1902 of 8060
Reports are coming in that the e-shift feature really only is a benefit because of the MPC darbee style sharpening enhancements, not the actual 4K bits (except if you sit really close and can see pixels on 2K).

It would be interesting to compare the RS46/X35 with the 4810/X55 with e-shift off and MPC off, to see who much the eshift optics reduce ANSI and native sharpness.
Another interesting test would be to compare the MPC enhancements with the darbee - I recall Zombie saying that for the just superseded models the darbee complemented e-shift/MPC version 1, how do the two interact for this year's models.

Basically, is the RS46/X35 the best buy if you have a darbee and can calibrate externally?
post #1903 of 8060
Thread Starter 
once i'm done with the 3D comparisons later tonight, I'll spend some time going over the e-shift 1 vs 2, RC, etc.

I've seen the argument, but I don't agree that e-shift's sole purpose is to eliminate pixel structure. There is more to it and you have to look at it close up to see what's it's doing. The overlapping of the pixels creates the perception of increased contrast and detail. The best way to describe it is that the image becomes more solid, less digital in appearance from seating distance.
post #1904 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

Basically, is the RS46/X35 the best buy if you have a darbee and can calibrate externally?

I'm interested to see if this were the conclusion having a Darbee and a Lumagen with my X35 (plus an Isco II lens which goes some way to increasing the pixel density for 2.35:1 though not as much as the X55). However, it's a bit like having a car with a 6 speed gearbox and only using 5 gears...why wouldn't you use the Eshift if you had an X55?
post #1905 of 8060
Zombie, could you please compare the noise level (sound) between the Sony at full power and the Epson in ECO? Also, I looked but couldn't find a comparison of the sound of the DI for both? Thanks!

BTW, after doing a few small tests and writing them up my respect for you has grown measurably. The hours and hours and days you are putting into this for the good of the community staggers me. Unless you've done it a little bit, I don't think many people realize just what a herculean effort Zombie is involved in. For free. to help us all. Zombie, you da man!!!!!
post #1906 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

Reports are coming in that the e-shift feature really only is a benefit because of the MPC darbee style sharpening enhancements, not the actual 4K bits (except if you sit really close and can see pixels on 2K).
It would be interesting to compare the RS46/X35 with the 4810/X55 with e-shift off and MPC off, to see who much the eshift optics reduce ANSI and native sharpness.
Another interesting test would be to compare the MPC enhancements with the darbee - I recall Zombie saying that for the just superseded models the darbee complemented e-shift/MPC version 1, how do the two interact for this year's models.
Basically, is the RS46/X35 the best buy if you have a darbee and can calibrate externally?
I don't think eshift / MPC is like a Darbee. Nothing I tried with MPC settings mimics a Darbee. The MPC Film mode doesn't help the perception of sharpness and while the High Resolution MPC mode does a bit of sharpening the Darbee is still quite effective. I think the trick is to figure out what MPC settings are effective for what type of material. I can easily dial down the effect to make it not apparent and there is no problem in overdoing it where everything is just overcooked. Somewhere between those extremes is the right setting and I suspect that will vary by setup (screen size, seating distance) and content.
post #1907 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

Ok for my R46 I'm mounting on the wall today.
How far up should I go past the seats? I know it's best to keep at eye level.
But usually above the back of ones head does it still need to go higher then just above the head? I guess saying if in 6 foot tall would it be safe to say mounting 6 foot on the back wall would be ok? Because once you sit down you are not 6 feet tall anymore

You can do what I did. I installed adjustable shelf rails. That way I can set the height what I want or need. This way if I change projectors and or screens, I can adjust to get the best fit. For a HP screen, you can move the projector higher if needing to reduce lumens or drop lower to increase.
Reply
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post #1908 of 8060


Ok I mounted. I mounted it high enough so it's out of range when my seats are sitting straight up.

So when reclined I'm definitely not anywhere close to be in its way thanks.

Now to work on the picture. It does not look that clear. Kinda blurry ish
post #1909 of 8060
I have a 150" diagonal 16:9 screen and sit 1.25 screen widths away, so it sounds like from what zombie is saying that there will be a benefit with optical e-shift (more solid picture) especially sitting so close to a large screen, and that MPC v2 still complements the darbee.

So does that mean with MPC and darbee in the loop you end up constantly fiddling the settings of both to get it right for each movie? I have the darbee with a RS20 and have it typically set at 40 but occasionally tune it up or down but not for every movie. Would be a pain if the tweaking has to be done more often and in 2 different systems.

I'm also interested to hear about the real life contrast difference between the RS56/X75 and the 4810/X55 but may have to wait for the upcoming UK avforum review.
post #1910 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

I have a 150" diagonal 16:9 screen and sit 1.25 screen widths away, so it sounds like from what zombie is saying that there will be a benefit with optical e-shift (more solid picture) especially sitting so close to a large screen, and that MPC v2 still complements the darbee.
So does that mean with MPC and darbee in the loop you end up constantly fiddling the settings of both to get it right for each movie? I have the darbee with a RS20 and have it typically set at 40 but occasionally tune it up or down but not for every movie. Would be a pain if the tweaking has to be done more often and in 2 different systems.
I'm also interested to hear about the real life contrast difference between the RS56/X75 and the 4810/X55 but may have to wait for the upcoming UK avforum review.

He could be right re contrast and 4k . I could not see a difference; but that does not mean there isn't one.

When I was close to screen with a 100 IRE screen I could detect noise with eshift on. Not bad, but subtle noise. It is not at all visible at seating.
post #1911 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

I have a 150" diagonal 16:9 screen and sit 1.25 screen widths away, so it sounds like from what zombie is saying that there will be a benefit with optical e-shift (more solid picture) especially sitting so close to a large screen, and that MPC v2 still complements the darbee.
So does that mean with MPC and darbee in the loop you end up constantly fiddling the settings of both to get it right for each movie? I have the darbee with a RS20 and have it typically set at 40 but occasionally tune it up or down but not for every movie. Would be a pain if the tweaking has to be done more often and in 2 different systems.
I'm also interested to hear about the real life contrast difference between the RS56/X75 and the 4810/X55 but may have to wait for the upcoming UK avforum review.

So far to me it seems the MPC settings on the 4810 you settle on carry over well to various source material and if anything needs fine tuning the Darbee only seems fine to do that with. I suppose others might want to adjust the MPC occasionally according to source if not also using a Darblet, or maybe even with. Buttons are there to be pushed.....right? biggrin.gif
post #1912 of 8060
Not sure why the darbee is being touched either... Set it at the least aggressive mode you still like and leave it alone.

I have my MPC on film at 17,0,0 and darbee at 40. Never to be touched again. wink.gif

Makes life easier.
post #1913 of 8060
its all about knowing what buttons to push and on whom.
post #1914 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Not sure why the darbee is being touched either... Set it at the least aggressive mode you still like and leave it alone.
I have my MPC on film at 17,0,0 and darbee at 40. Never to be touched again. wink.gif
Makes life easier.

I atually crank the Darbee up to around 90 for perfectly clean animation and cant see any negative effects. For most other things I leave it around 45 though. Something like The Avengers though which is also very clean I will bump the Darbee up a bit to around 60 and cant see any problems from my seat. Are there issues I am not seeing when I set the Darbee that high for animated titles?
post #1915 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I atually crank the Darbee up to around 90 for perfectly clean animation and cant see any negative effects. For most other things I leave it around 45 though. Something like The Avengers though which is also very clean I will bump the Darbee up a bit to around 60 and cant see any problems from my seat. Are there issues I am not seeing when I set the Darbee that high for animated titles?
I do the same, with 3D I crank it up too
post #1916 of 8060
Toe. Are you trying to train yourself to see bad things that are you are blissfully unaware of now? smile.gif

I am despite my general nature trying to be serious here.

Much re HT viewing is personal preference in nature. Take RBE for example. Many don't see it but others do. You can force yourself to see it. You can train yourself to see it and then you eliminate a whole class of HT projectors from being possible candidates even though may excell in certain other areas. Gamma is another preference. There is no rule, there is no correct standard. You can go to high though and get the dreaded black crush if you do not have enough real on off out the lens to support the higher gamma.

One can be unaware when using a Darbee that background noise in the light areas of a picture, say a light sky, increases. So you set the Darbee below the threshold where you see increased noise. Now if you do it from your viewing chair you will likely set it higher than if you put your nose close to the screen with your eyes foloowing closely behindf. Then you will set it lower? Why. You can't really see it from your chair but YOU KNOW ITS THERE. Your brain will sharpen your viewing acuity and focus on the screen and yes, like a piece of cryptonite being moved far away from Superman, you will now always see the noise.

I can'e even find my Darbee remote. Its somewhere but I can't find it. I know I can change things with the button on the box but its very inconvenient to do so, so I don't. I haven't changed the Darbee from 40 HD for months. Is 40 the best for me. Why not 39 or 38. I just watch in ignorant bliss. i slept like a babe last night.

I do have a big worry. My wife is having a new year's party at our house and wants to show 3D so I need to snag some more glasses for my Sony 1000ES. I think I have three paitrs now but I will need some more. I will try and borrow some from a friend on AVS who has a zillion pairs. What's the best now for the Sony? IR please.
post #1917 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Toe. Are you trying to train yourself to see bad things that are you are blissfully unaware of now? smile.gif

Well of course I am. I dont know about you, but when I became an AVS forum member years ago, I was required to sign a waiver where I promised NOT to watch video and listen to audio as I always had up to that point and I had to start finding the issues. Isn't that what we do here??? confused.gif

biggrin.giftongue.gif

Seriously though, I am sure a lot of this has to do with screen size, seating distance, etc (right?) as far as how visible the issues are under normal from our seats viewing as far as the Darbee is concerned. I have not gone looking for issues to any extent besides just quick on/off experiments and just from my viewing position (I have not done any nose to the screen type testing). I have not seen any issues doing this when it comes to an extremely clean source (animation for example), but that does not mean they are not there. I was just curious what others were seeing that is preventing them from turning the Darbee up past 40 when watching something like animation which is extremely clean in the first place since I have not noticed any problems. I have purposely not looked hard for issues though since it would be just like you say above.........I see it from up close and I would probably "train" myself to see it from seating distance no matter if I really could see it or not (I totally understand what you are saying here and agree.....especially for an OCD bastard like myself!).

I can see how noise/grain is sometimes emphasized on film based content from my seating position when the Darbee is set to high which is why I always leave it in the 40-45 range for this type of material. Again though for something like animation where there is no grain and or noise, I just dont see any issues with cranking up the Darbee in these situations. So I guess my question for those who never go past ~40 is have you tried going past 40 for something extremely clean like animation and if so what if any issues did you see?

Good luck hunting down some 3d glasses. Chances are somebody you know around there has some they would loan you. I just got done charging up my new TrueDepth glasses and have a BenQ 7000 sitting here. cool.gif Still waiting on a longer power cord which should come tom, but I hope this will be my ticket to 3d happiness finally!
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I do the same, with 3D I crank it up too

Cool. I have not even tried it on 3d yet, but am planning to once I get this 7000 up and running which should be tom I hope.

EDIT: I think the biggest question we all need to ask ourselves though is "will any of this truly matter as long as the Broncos win today?" I know all of us are Bronco fans, right?

biggrin.gif
Edited by Toe - 12/16/12 at 9:12am
post #1918 of 8060
Not a Broncos fan, but being from Indiana, I roll with Manning.
post #1919 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Not a Broncos fan, but being from Indiana, I roll with Manning.

Close enough! wink.gif
post #1920 of 8060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post


Still waiting on a longer power cord which should come tom, but I hope this will be my ticket to 3d happiness finally!

biggrin.gif

WTH?? ... biggrin.gif... Did you order it from Amazon? Probably from BenQ right, with the special end. Use an extension cord today...... Get that bad boy fired up and enjoy 3D the way you want it......
Edited by RonF - 12/16/12 at 10:21am
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