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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 82

post #2431 of 8058
Here's the results of my 3D calibration with my 5020 and LPE filter. 3D Dynamic mode:











I could have tightened things up a little bit, But I have a new PJ on the way and it's not worth the effort for now. Measured output is 1600 lumens. Mind you, I have full horizontal shift and the PJ is at 15 feet. If the PJ was centered and wide open on the zoom, I think output would be closer to 1700 Lumens.

Also, there should be a Mini 3D on the way soon! Woo Hoo!
post #2432 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

I've had the HC9000D for a couple of months now, and got a THX Video Calibration at around 100 hours. Just tonight (for the umpteenth time) my GF came down to the HT after work and poked her head in to let me know she was home and made this comment: "Boy that picture really is wonderful. Every film I've seen looks incredible. What a great projector." That's a far cry from "Why did you need that?" which accompanied two previous PJs.
She never said great things even once about any of my previous projectors, even when I still had the three-eyed beasts in the house. Not. Even. Once. (And I just about killed myself getting those d@##ed CRTs in place, too.)
Many of my local HT friends have JVC of one type or another, as it's the de facto standard around here, but I gotta say, I'm not envious of any of them. Of course, there's the room, screen, distance, seating location, etc., to factor in, YMMV. wink.gif
Chad, I've never had an X35 and HC9000D together, so I can't make that direct comparison. Of course, when I'm at someone's house, I'm always polite and say everything looks and sounds great, even though I believe in my heart that mine looks and sounds a lot better. tongue.gif
I think Z10k had an HC9000D for a while(?). Maybe it's still lying around somewhere waiting for resurrection.
What a great review smile.gif It makes me wanna try it.
post #2433 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

I've had the HC9000D for a couple of months now, and got a THX Video Calibration at around 100 hours. Just tonight (for the umpteenth time) my GF came down to the HT after work and poked her head in to let me know she was home and made this comment: "Boy that picture really is wonderful. Every film I've seen looks incredible. What a great projector." That's a far cry from "Why did you need that?" which accompanied two previous PJs.
She never said great things even once about any of my previous projectors, even when I still had the three-eyed beasts in the house. Not. Even. Once. (And I just about killed myself getting those d@##ed CRTs in place, too.)
Many of my local HT friends have JVC of one type or another, as it's the de facto standard around here, but I gotta say, I'm not envious of any of them. Of course, there's the room, screen, distance, seating location, etc., to factor in, YMMV. wink.gif
Chad, I've never had an X35 and HC9000D together, so I can't make that direct comparison. Of course, when I'm at someone's house, I'm always polite and say everything looks and sounds great, even though I believe in my heart that mine looks and sounds a lot better. tongue.gif
I think Z10k had an HC9000D for a while(?). Maybe it's still lying around somewhere waiting for resurrection.


No he doesn't. I had one that Tom and I calibrated and I brought it to Zombie's for part of the shoot out if I remember correctly. It went to a customer. At the last pricing I saw for the 9000, they are a steal.and mits will never build that quality machine again. Their market is much cheaper classes of projectors. They lost their shirt on the 9000 and decided to get out os that price sector and just dumped them out at dump out prices..
Edited by mark haflich - 12/27/12 at 6:37am
post #2434 of 8058
This is HD9000D's spectral power distribution graph, and I have never seen a more beautiful one. Have you?


Just for comparison, this is JVC X90's:


Sony VW95ES:



Aaand for shitz&giggles the BenQ W7000's:

Edited by Elix - 12/27/12 at 4:49am
post #2435 of 8058
Thread Starter 
there was a number of issues that lead to the downfall of the HC9000. The original price, the CMS/Firmware issues and the average 3D that was about the same as the VW90 which received harsh criticism at the time (low lumen, general crosstalk)

At the blowout prices it was a steal because of the quality lens and 2D PQ. The rumor was the HC5 was being built with leftover parts from the 9000D.

it looks nice in white and the street price is right in line with the Epson 5020.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4bpNtgf7fY

I see an external 3D transmitter port, but not sure if it's the more common 3 Pin, or the unique 5 pin as seen on the HC8000. I'd like to know if they did anything to improve the 3D.
post #2436 of 8058
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

Here's the results of my 3D calibration with my 5020 and LPE filter. 3D Dynamic mode:

I could have tightened things up a little bit, But I have a new PJ on the way and it's not worth the effort for now. Measured output is 1600 lumens. Mind you, I have full horizontal shift and the PJ is at 15 feet. If the PJ was centered and wide open on the zoom, I think output would be closer to 1700 Lumens.

Also, there should be a Mini 3D on the way soon! Woo Hoo!

thanks for the update. keep us posted if you can trim it down with the mini 3D. Do you have the auto-cal feature in spectracal?
post #2437 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

there was a number of issues that lead to the downfall of the HC9000. The original price, the CMS/Firmware issues and the average 3D that was about the same as the VW90 which received harsh criticism at the time (low lumen, general crosstalk)
At the blowout prices it was a steal because of the quality lens and 2D PQ. The rumor was the HC5 was being built with leftover parts from the 9000D.
it looks nice in white and the street price is right in line with the Epson 5020.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4bpNtgf7fY
I see an external 3D transmitter port, but not sure if it's the more common 3 Pin, or the unique 5 pin as seen on the HC8000. I'd like to know if they did anything to improve the 3D.

The CMS was fixed on the later 9000. Anything bought today would have the fix. There is some ghosting but most peoplerreally don't care about 3D that much. Some of course do but I will repeat, the vast majority just doesn't.

Zombie. I just purchased Finding Nemo in Bluray and 3D to replace my old copy which i haven't watched in years. Hopefully they have changed the script abit. Yea right. It will be interesting to watch it in 3D because unlike other than animation most films just dpen't translate to 3D conversion. Animation converts fine because it was computer generated in gthe first place.cMan I can hardly wait for my Redray 4K player and some new content and then in 4K, high bit length.

I think many participate here and buy a new projector every year or two because they are bored silly with their movie library and are desparate to use their theaters. A new projector gives us a miserasble exuse to tinker and play and watch all our stupid flicks over and over again. When a new flick comes out, like vampires and transformers take on the alien invaders, it makes headlines on AVS with people reporting on it. Man there is so little content beggers can't be chosey; We have this big investment and we have to use it. Of course you can become a reviewer like Zombie and you never will have that problem again. All content becomes basically a needed test pattern for repeated use, over and over again, and you never have time to watch for watching sake anyway. Please can you remeasure the fan noise at 1.79 meters away and use an A weighted rather than C weighted scale. The specs say 28 db and mine measured 29.25 and I want to know if this is normal or whether I should return it?

I saw Laurence of Arabia on a super wide theater screen when it first came out years ago. Then I watched it a few years ago (maybe 5) on DVD and from memory because I was very young when it came out the DVD kinda sucked in comparison. Now I just purchased it in the restored version on blueray. Just like most blurays it reportedly suffers from drastic edge enhancemen and here changes to the color palet. Most here are blissfully unaware how much Blurays suck compared to the native medium without the edge enhancements etc. I can hardly wait for the Bluray to arrive. Maybe they changed the ending which is presented in the begining anyway. How many here have ever watchedLurence of Arabia?
post #2438 of 8058
Thread Starter 
Nemo 3D is a good conversion, but sick of the movie after seeing it so many times, I watched clips of it because I couldn't make it through the whole movie. Monsters Inc 3D will be welcome when it's released.

I watch plenty of movies with my setup, but getting bored with hollywood flicks and turn to Chinese Cinema which has amazing production value such as IPMan 1 and 2, Crouching tiger / hidden dragon, Fearless, and the epic 'Battle of Red Cliff'. Hollywood could take a lesson from these directors for a fresh way to make movies that draw people in.

although I have to admit, 'TED' was funnier than I was expecting it to be. A foul-mouthed talking Teddy Bear does have some comedy to it.
post #2439 of 8058
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

Somebody needs a hug?
My little system would make most of you cringe but I enjoy it almost daily. My wife and I watch about 4 movies a week, every week and have for years and years. We supplement selections from our collection of 400 or so blurays with new release rentals. Granted, not everything we watch is a classic, but seldom do we feel bored. I envy your access to high end equipment, but glad I don't feel so jaded about the content.

He has one the best $25,000 projectors on the market along with a very expensive screen, so the flaws of some bluray transfers become obvious as day. That seems to be nitpicking just as much as we discuss fan noise, 3D ghosting, etc...

hopefully they will get their 4K content soon, but it will likely be a few years before it becomes mainstream. So enjoy the blurays since the alternative was SD DVD's for a long time.
post #2440 of 8058
From what I gathered, the Mits hc9000d black levels are pretty close to the Sony hw30, that is only if we go by measurements. The hw50 should beat it in blacks I think. Even the hw30 theoretically beats in black levels a little perhaps, depends. The Mits has a better lens than the Sony, possibly even a tiny bit better than the JVC even. I think one thing people complained about was the IRIS on the hc9000d?
Most people turn it off (cant remember)?

Plenty of people do care about 3D, otherwise every MFR wouldn't be so focused on it. If the market wasn't there for it, we'd see the MFR's phasing back to 2D only machines (instead of continuing to make projectors with more and more lumen output). That said, in the higher-end market ($5000+), there are probably fewer people caring about 3D (not sure how the different segments work).
post #2441 of 8058
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post


I am loving the 3d on the 7000 so far! It is just as you have described. Zero ghosting and zero flicker and it cant be overemphasized how much impact this has on the 3d experience as a whole. Not only is the 3d better since it is cleaner in general which allows you to fully take in the effect without any distractions, but knowing there is no chance of even seeing any ghosting allows my mind to not even worry about if/when that might pop up which allows me to fully focus on the material. cool.gif One thing I do find annoying though vs the 40/45 is neither the TrueDepth or the ZD201s hold a sync as well vs the JVC system. The TrueDepths are better than the 201s, but both have issues at times it seems. Having said that, as long as I just sit and watch a movie as I normally do without getting up or unusual head movement, both pairs so far seem to hold their sync well enough. I am curious to see how this holds up as I watch more 3d.

Combine the above with the FI in 3d which is everything I had hoped for and maybe even more, and 3d has gone up a couple levels overall vs the RS40/45 for me. FI is something I have always craved for animation and documentary type 3d blus since I love using this feature for this type of material in 2d. What I was not counting on was how much better the FI is on the 7000 vs my 40/45. Low setting on the 7000 is MUCH more natural looking and just works more evenly/smoothly in general. With the JVC, once a panning type scene gets to a certain speed, the FI chokes and starts stuttering which kills some of the effect. The 7000 does not choke in this same situation and maintains a nice smooth effect throughout the pan with either low or medium (I have not tried high yet). This is huge IMO for 3d titles like Grand Canyon, Under the Sea, etc......., anything animated and helps pull you even further into the experience. For me, I simply would not want to be without the option of FI for 3d after experiencing it.
A few little issues I have come across which wont be an issue for most.

I missed this post, thanks for the feedback on the W7000. I mentioned last year the FI on the W7000 was quite good, similar to the FI on the HW30. FI in 3D is the only thing I would have liked to see on the 5020 this year.

it's straight-forward to calibrate it behind the glasses when your gear is setup. enjoy the crosstalk free / flicker free 3D... smile.gif
post #2442 of 8058
Guys. My HT is in constant use this time of year as I watch a lot of sports. So i am not lacking in new things I want to watch. I do NEVER watch an event twice.

Time willl show you all what I am talking about re Bluray being a piss poor second for movie watching. If you spend some time with a commercial 4K projector with 2k and 4K DCI feeds one will quickly realize how much compromised blurays are. Its not even debatable. Of course 1080p source material is a lot better than 480i. With 4K vs 1080p Bluray its not really the additional resolution. its that damn edge enhancement, truncated bit length, limited color space, yada yada. Maybe you guys are better off not having seen what I am talking about but we are being really shafted with watching movies from bluray. Facts guys, not opinion.
Edited by mark haflich - 12/27/12 at 11:57am
post #2443 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thanks for the update. keep us posted if you can trim it down with the mini 3D. Do you have the auto-cal feature in spectracal?

I'll be upgrading to the "Enthusiast" version when the mini arrives to get autocal.
post #2444 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thanks for the link. I have something similar which is the black material used on my Dalite screen. I ordered several yards of it to make masks for my 16:9. It's very dark with the super adhesive backing. I'll likely have to use this on the grid since these tiles are pure black.
I have a skid of 60 of them waiting for me, but have to address the grid first before installing them.

The fuzzy stuff they stick on screen frames is good to use asnd fairly inexpensive. I am not sure the added cost of Protec would be worth it just to kill a small area of strips which would be reflective. but the fuzzy stuff doesn't hold an extinguished candle to Protec. try covering any area of your screen weall that isn't covered by the screen with it and then several feet out from the screen on either side. it makes your screen seem like it is floating in black space. really quite an effect but certainly nothing like adding butt kickers. smile.gif
post #2445 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Guys. My HT is in constant use this time of year as I watch a lot of sports. So i am not lacking in new things I want to watch. I do NEVER watch an event twice.
Time willl show you are what I am talking about re Bluray being a piss poor second for movie watching. If you spend some time with a commercial 4K projector with 2k and 4K DCI feeds one will quickly realize how much compromised blurays are. Its not even debatable. Of course 1080p source material is a lot better than 480i. With 4K vs 1080p Bluray its not really the additional resolution. its that damn edge enhancement, truncated bit length, limited color space, yada yada. Maybe you guys are better off not having seen what I am talking about but we are being really shafted with watching movies from bluray. Facts guys, not opinion.

I completely agree... I'll PM my shipping address so I can dispose of your old system when you upgrade wink.gif
post #2446 of 8058
Thread Starter 
no one is arguing that 12bit 4K content isn't going to be amazing. The point is, it's an extremely niche market at this moment since the vast majority of the population doesn't have a 4K resolution projector that costs $25,000 retail. You guys are lucky that RED is such an early adopter of technology that was created to generate steam for their new 4K projector.

Who is going to be able to easily access the Sony 4K content server in the near future? Are you guys really relying on Sony to update the VW1000 in a few years if a new HDMI standard is established? who knows what Sony will be doing in 2+ years from now.

I can't wait for 4K to come to earth at reasonable prices in a few years with content that is as readily available as BD is now. Who wouldn't want better PQ for the same price? We just have to wait.
post #2447 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The CMS was fixed on the later 9000. Anything bought today would have the fix. There is some ghosting but most peoplerreally don't care about 3D that much. Some of course do but I will repeat, the vast majority just doesn't.
Zombie. I just purchased Finding Nemo in Bluray and 3D to replace my old copy which i haven't watched in years. Hopefully they have changed the script abit. Yea right. It will be interesting to watch it in 3D because unlike other than animation most films just dpen't translate to 3D conversion. Animation converts fine because it was computer generated in gthe first place.cMan I can hardly wait for my Redray 4K player and some new content and then in 4K, high bit length.
I think many participate here and buy a new projector every year or two because they are bored silly with their movie library and are desparate to use their theaters. A new projector gives us a miserasble exuse to tinker and play and watch all our stupid flicks over and over again. When a new flick comes out, like vampires and transformers take on the alien invaders, it makes headlines on AVS with people reporting on it. Man there is so little content beggers can't be chosey; We have this big investment and we have to use it. Of course you can become a reviewer like Zombie and you never will have that problem again. All content becomes basically a needed test pattern for repeated use, over and over again, and you never have time to watch for watching sake anyway. Please can you remeasure the fan noise at 1.79 meters away and use an A weighted rather than C weighted scale. The specs say 28 db and mine measured 29.25 and I want to know if this is normal or whether I should return it?
I saw Laurence of Arabia on a super wide theater screen when it first came out years ago. Then I watched it a few years ago (maybe 5) on DVD and from memory because I was very young when it came out the DVD kinda sucked in comparison. Now I just purchased it in the restored version on blueray. Just like most blurays it reportedly suffers from drastic edge enhancemen and here changes to the color palet. Most here are blissfully unaware how much Blurays suck compared to the native medium without the edge enhancements etc. I can hardly wait for the Bluray to arrive. Maybe they changed the ending which is presented in the begining anyway. How many here have ever watchedLurence of Arabia?


Great to read some basics on what good sens means.
Also : Addiction raises unsatisfaction level and the the need for (nearly) always for more and more , better and better
post #2448 of 8058
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toni1 View Post


Also : Addiction raises unsatisfaction level and the the need for (nearly) always for more and more , better and better

it's true.. Mark had some really nice projectors before the VW1000.
post #2449 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by toni1 View Post

Also : Addiction raises unsatisfaction level and the the need for (nearly) always for more and more , better and better

Sometimes different is better when not really better. The same old pic gets boring, I sometimes want to de-upgrade my JVC to get a different image, but I want something that can still do MOST things well. This is where a high-end DLP might come in handy, but honestly to me LCOS now looks too close to DLP to be that much different, but I never saw a top-of-the-line Marantz (seen the Runcos though).

The Runcos didn't look as different to me compared to the mid-priced DLP's as some people claim, but I only saw it in a showroom. The blacks looked better, but not great to me (they are ok), but nowhere near JVC blacks unless the projector was just miscalibrated. The blacks looked like a Panny 7000 or maybe a notch better, not even as good as the Epson IMHO (but getting kind semi-close). I am treading in dangerous water stating that, it was sharper though, but hey that's what I saw (again in a showroom).

Edited:
I think it's because some people try to evaluate black levels only on how dark the black is, but the key is overall contrast (how bright are the whites while still relatively dark blacks). The second point is why it's hard to evaluate black levels, IRIS's can make it dark, but it makes everything darker (as we know). On every DLP I've seen, the blacks are not only not as dark as the JVC, but the contrast is still more washed out. The Epson has pretty good native on/off though, and so does the Sony. The DLP's cheat with an IRIS more so I think.
Edited by coderguy - 12/27/12 at 9:50am
post #2450 of 8058
I am sure Blu-ray is not the end all of all formats, but you guys jumping on the 4K bandwagon so early are going to have to suffer like all early adopters It took BD 5 to 6 years to get established and that was several years after we had 1080 TVs. I'll happily enjoy my BDs when the other option is bit starved streaming or low rez DVDs. As far as RedRay is concerned, I'll believe it when they prove they can line up studios to deliver content reliably. If you don't think there is going to be a battle over delivering 4K content you are being delusional.
Edited by Toknowshita - 12/27/12 at 9:46am
post #2451 of 8058
My 13" LCD TV in my kitchen could use 4k, it looks too digital to me :P
Actually I am curious to see what 4k TV's look like, since I am guessing the pixel fill would need to be much more dense and it might look more film-like (not sure).
post #2452 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

although I have to admit, 'TED' was funnier than I was expecting it to be. A foul-mouthed talking Teddy Bear does have some comedy to it.
And this foul mouth grumpy old bastard can be funny at times too .....it's just to bad I'm not cute like a Teddy Bear though....rolleyes.giftongue.gif

I understand the push for 4K and I'm wanting it like most here. That said I wonder if it's realistic to expect many titles to ever be released. Most folks are content with LCD TV's and DVD and internet video. In fact I'd bet most probably wouldn't benefit by switching to BluRay, much less 4K (depending on TV size and seating distance). I guess I'm skeptical that 4K won't go down the same path as high res audio.
post #2453 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

And this foul mouth grumpy old bastard can be funny at times too .....it's just to bad I'm not cute like a Teddy Bear though....rolleyes.giftongue.gif
I understand the push for 4K and I'm wanting it like most here. That said I wonder if it's realistic to expect many titles to ever be released. Most folks are content with LCD TV's and DVD and internet video. In fact I'd bet most probably wouldn't benefit by switching to BluRay, much less 4K (depending on TV size and seating distance). I guess I'm skeptical that 4K won't go down the same path as high res audio.

Yeah, I shot and edited my parish's 100th anniversary video in HD recently. I authored to Blu-ray and DVD, but only 4 Blu-ray discs sold in the first run. We're on the second run of 50 DVDs now. Most people don't even know that DVD isn't HD. Much as I'd like to see it happen differently, I doubt 4K will take off any faster than 3D has. Actually, I think it'll be a lot slower, because it was a cheap upgrade for set manufacturers to move to 3D simply by tweaking existing designs. It's going to cost a lot more to ramp up 4K manufacturing.
post #2454 of 8058
Zombie,

This is straight from the Mits HC8000 user manual-

"When the projector is mounted on the ceiling, images may appear darker than those projected in the case of tabletop mounting. This isn’t a product malfunction".

Any chance you can comment on this in both 2d and 3d?
post #2455 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

I completely agree... I'll PM my shipping address so I can dispose of your old system when you upgrade wink.gif

I have already ordered my Redray 4K server from Red and hopefully in february will be getting 4K content through Odemax for it. I will still need my $129 Panasonic Bluray player for my 1080p stuff. You wanna buy a who;le bunch of DVDs?I don't think I.ve watched a DVD in many a years.
Edited by mark haflich - 12/27/12 at 3:23pm
post #2456 of 8058
I have all of my DVDs stored on my HTPC, and any of 3 Tivos in the house can play them instantly. Other than stand up comedy, none of them (hundreds) has been accessed in over two years.

The Tivo actually makes a great media player for movies on a small TV like a 50". PyTivo transcodes movies on the fly to send to the Tivo. We can watch a Bluray file in 1080i on the 50" TV. To be honest, I see no difference over 1080p on a TV that small at our seating distance.
post #2457 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

no one is arguing that 12bit 4K content isn't going to be amazing. The point is, it's an extremely niche market at this moment since the vast majority of the population doesn't have a 4K resolution projector that costs $25,000 retail. You guys are lucky that RED is such an early adopter of technology that was created to generate steam for their new 4K projector.
Who is going to be able to easily access the Sony 4K content server in the near future? Are you guys really relying on Sony to update the VW1000 in a few years if a new HDMI standard is established? who knows what Sony will be doing in 2+ years from now.
I can't wait for 4K to come to earth at reasonable prices in a few years with content that is as readily available as BD is now. Who wouldn't want better PQ for the same price? We just have to wait.

Several points.

First, the 3d of Finding Nemo is not a conversion. It is a remake in that any animation except where human video is inserta are totally computer generated and the make is no different than if it had vbeen issued in 3D to begin width. There is absolutely no conversion loss as there would be in a video shot in 2D and than artificially processed to make it sorta look like it was poorly shot in 3D. Of course some conversion can be good but they are very very very costly to convert.

Sony. I trust the company will do what it says. The promise of the no charge lease of a server with periodic updated content as an inducement to buy an expensive panel is an enforceable contract against Sony. It is also a stop gap. Sony within the next year will I believe have 4HD disc content and a player and one thaty has long bit length yada yada.

A friend of mine is buying the Sony panel and has offered to loan me his server when he gets it so I can watch it on my 1000ES.
Next year or the year after everyone will be upgrading to machines that accept 4K in and play it real or pseudo like the JVCs.

My rant is about Blurays. Forget about 4K. They suck in comparison to DCI 2K feeds which of course I just a tiny bit higher than 1080p in resolution,

the masses here including my good friend who is very very knowledgeable have not a clue as to how bad they are in comparison. If you did, you would be screaming. We are victims of technological compromises. Who needs better? Everyone here. If DVD was Ripple, and Bluray is a Gallo Jug. DCI2K is a fine fine wine. There is that much difference.


Anyhow I am off to my distributor to pick up a 5020 for a customer.
post #2458 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Sometimes different is better when not really better. The same old pic gets boring, I sometimes want to de-upgrade my JVC to get a different image, but I want something that can still do MOST things well. This is where a high-end DLP might come in handy, but honestly to me LCOS now looks too close to DLP to be that much different, but I never saw a top-of-the-line Marantz (seen the Runcos though).
The Runcos didn't look as different to me compared to the mid-priced DLP's as some people claim, but I only saw it in a showroom. The blacks looked better, but not great to me (they are ok), but nowhere near JVC blacks unless the projector was just miscalibrated. The blacks looked like a Panny 7000 or maybe a notch better, not even as good as the Epson IMHO (but getting kind semi-close). I am treading in dangerous water stating that, it was sharper though, but hey that's what I saw (again in a showroom).
Edited:
I think it's because some people try to evaluate black levels only on how dark the black is, but the key is overall contrast (how bright are the whites while still relatively dark blacks). The second point is why it's hard to evaluate black levels, IRIS's can make it dark, but it makes everything darker (as we know). On every DLP I've seen, the blacks are not only not as dark as the JVC, but the contrast is still more washed out. The Epson has pretty good native on/off though, and so does the Sony. The DLP's cheat with an IRIS more so I think.


Yes of course, but do you need better if you feel its already good. What counts is contents and emotion while looking at a real film like Avatar not technics (such as values , test patterns)
Sometimes flaws like missalined pannels will only be visible on test patterns.

I love subjective statesment like « I love the dlp look »
Or « I dont like this projector not because its black are blaker but only because it looks so nice »

Chimera = illusion = expectation = maybe deception (proportional to expactations)
post #2459 of 8058
I think having a projector so good that it exposes issues in a format that most people feel is excellent may fall under the "first world problems" category. tongue.gif If you're trying to gain sympathy talking to the "common folk" none may be given. Know your audience Mark! tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

I'm actually working through Lawrence of Arabia's bluray for the first time ever (sadly). So far I'm enjoying it, but in 2 days I haven't finished because my wife shows up at the house and starts complaining or wanting to talk instead of leaving me alone to watch my 4 hour epic. I do think the colors are a bit over-saturated, as with a lot of older restorations. That said, I think it looks great for a film of that age and I'm enjoying it so far.

Everyone keeps mentioning Nemo 3D but there isn't any mention of Up 3D which came out on the same day. This is a newer release, was offered in 3D in theaters and is a far better story. I actually own it, but am not buying my projector for a few weeks so I can't report yet. Anyone else pick that title up that can report on it? I'd be interested to see how it fairs. Otherwise give me a little time and I will.

I actually got Up, Nemo and iRobot 3D for Christmas in prep for my (still undecided model) projector. I've also been gobbling up 3D titles for a while and I should have about 10 or 15 to play with by the time everything is setup and ready in the basement.
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Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post


Everyone keeps mentioning Nemo 3D but there isn't any mention of Up 3D which came out on the same day. This is a newer release, was offered in 3D in theaters and is a far better story. I actually own it, but am not buying my projector for a few weeks so I can't report yet. Anyone else pick that title up that can report on it? I'd be interested to see how it fairs. Otherwise give me a little time and I will.

I actually got Up, Nemo and iRobot 3D for Christmas in prep for my (still undecided model) projector. I've also been gobbling up 3D titles for a while and I should have about 10 or 15 to play with by the time everything is setup and ready in the basement.

Up 3D is good, I'm just not a fan of the story. My issue when they re-render an animation that wasn't designed for 3D in mind, is that it's mainly depth with little to no popouts. The re-rendered Toy Story's and Shrek's are a good example with the last having the 'wow' 3D.

I am looking forward to seeing Monsters Inc get the 3D treatment. Also Despicable Me 2 is coming out next year.. one of my favorite 3D animations.

what projectors are you deciding upon?
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