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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 104

post #3091 of 8041
Zombie, How are we on the JVC + CineVista screenshots and review. I am halting a decision about buying a projector just to see how does the JVC 4810 perform with the new Panamorph lens.
post #3092 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlakaaa3 View Post

Zombie, How are we on the JVC + CineVista screenshots and review. I am halting a decision about buying a projector just to see how does the JVC 4810 perform with the new Panamorph lens.

+1 Could you use the first test pattern on the Lumagen (the white squares with the single white dot in the middle to show what it looks like?). I could try to do similar with my X35/Isco II for comparison.
post #3093 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

If you guys were amazed with Samsara you should check out Baraka and Chronos. Both were done by Ron Fricke and Mark Magidson and shot on 65mm film.

Thanks! I watched Baraka years ago and enjoyed it as well. Need to check out Chronos.
post #3094 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

what is your room setup?
It's a batcave, flat purple walls, %110 light controlled etc. At the moment I'm using the JVC RS40 with a 147in Dalite Hi Power screen, and I really love it. However in the coming months I'm doing a big remodel of the theater room, and I'm looking at alternatives to hi power. Much a I love it, the retroreflectivity and where the projector needs to be bugs me(centered on the screen, vertically and horozontally), people in the back row have it right next to their heads, so I want to get back to angular reflectivity so I can get the projector up high, but I don't want a smaller screen, so gain is still needed. I got some screen samples from Stewart for the Ultramatte and the sparkly effect those have is unreal, I dunno why anyone would like that. The Studio 130 G3 is a nice material though, however it's MAJORLY dim compared to my hi power.

So to get away from gain, a brighter projctor is needed, thats what I was thinking with the Epson 5020(or Sony HW50 perhaps), not to mention it's cheaper and the bulbs last longer. Soon I'll either be getting the JVC 4810 or another brand(which I hate to do). I do have some screen samples on the way from Severston screens, so maybe one of those can offer gain without sparkling. Shame the SIM2 LUMIS 3D-SOLO would solve all probems, I just don't have 38k to spend lol.

And if the other projectors just cannot measure up to the JVC, people in the rear be damned, I'll keep the Hi Power lol.
post #3095 of 8041
Hello Zombie.
I've send you a PM, about 3D calibration. wink.gif
post #3096 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

It's a batcave, flat purple walls, %110 light controlled etc. At the moment I'm using the JVC RS40 with a 147in Dalite Hi Power screen, and I really love it. However in the coming months I'm doing a big remodel of the theater room, and I'm looking at alternatives to hi power. Much a I love it, the retroreflectivity and where the projector needs to be bugs me(centered on the screen, vertically and horozontally), people in the back row have it right next to their heads, so I want to get back to angular reflectivity so I can get the projector up high, but I don't want a smaller screen, so gain is still needed. I got some screen samples from Stewart for the Ultramatte and the sparkly effect those have is unreal, I dunno why anyone would like that. The Studio 130 G3 is a nice material though, however it's MAJORLY dim compared to my hi power.

So to get away from gain, a brighter projctor is needed, thats what I was thinking with the Epson 5020(or Sony HW50 perhaps), not to mention it's cheaper and the bulbs last longer. Soon I'll either be getting the JVC 4810 or another brand(which I hate to do). I do have some screen samples on the way from Severston screens, so maybe one of those can offer gain without sparkling. Shame the SIM2 LUMIS 3D-SOLO would solve all probems, I just don't have 38k to spend lol.

And if the other projectors just cannot measure up to the JVC, people in the rear be damned, I'll keep the Hi Power lol.

I think you might end up keeping the HP. Trying to find another high gain screen without some type of screen artifact that bothers you compared to what you are used to with the HP is going to be a challenge to say the least. I am curious what you think of the Severtsen samples that you are getting though. Which Severtson samples do you have coming? That stellar white 2.2 gain looks interesting, but I would be very surprised if there was not some sort of noticeable screen artifact issue with that high of a gain. My first screen was a Severtson HC grey years ago which had noticeable/distracting screen texture and I had noticeable hot spotting in my setup so it did not last long. I have not seen any of their white screens though and am curious what you think vs your HP screen.
post #3097 of 8041
I'm getting stellar white 2.2, cinema white and the SeVision 3D GX just for grins. I'd say the Stellar White is the only real hope as an hp replacement. They claim it has no texture, we'll see.
post #3098 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

I'm getting stellar white 2.2, cinema white and the SeVision 3D GX just for grins. I'd say the Stellar White is the only real hope as an hp replacement. They claim it has no texture, we'll see.

Please keep us updated. Da-Lite is currently making my replacement HCHP screen as we speak. My dealer gave them explicit instructions to double check for uniformity and texture/line issues on my screen. We'll see. I'm going to stay a skeptic until I see the replacement for myself.
post #3099 of 8041
For Zombie10K...I checked the first page of the shootout but I didn't see your Projection distances . I'm sure they're in this Thread somewhere but I can't find them .
I'm curious on how the JVC throw distance for standard 16:9 will accommodate the Zoom for 2.35:1 images . Have you tried this in your setup ?
Using Coderguy's PJ calculator , my 16:9 throw for a 46 x 81 screen is between 9'3" and 18'11" which works as I would have a max throw of 13'4" .
However if I use the JVC Zoom Method to throw onto my 46 x 109 2.35:1 (actually 2.37:1) screen then the Calculator shows my throw changes to 12'5" to 25'5" .
Still on target but barely and then at max Zoom too .
What kind of issues can I expect with these figures ?

Scott....................confused.gif
post #3100 of 8041
I will absolutely keep you guys updated on the Severston samples.

While I've got your attention, is the e-Shift worth the extra money between the RS46 and the 4810? Seems the 4810 with e-Shift costs about $900 more, and I'm not sure I want it.
post #3101 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

I will absolutely keep you guys updated on the Severston samples.

While I've got your attention, is the e-Shift worth the extra money between the RS46 and the 4810? Seems the 4810 with e-Shift costs about $900 more, and I'm not sure I want it.
You get e-shift2, 121-point zone convergence, and a CMS with the 4810 vs the 46. It's definitely worth the extra cost if you ask me.
post #3102 of 8041
I have the opportunity to get the x35 for a great price but am a bit worried about the limited space in my living room. I would have to place the projector around 5-10 cm from the back wall with max zoom too fill a 91" 2.35:1 screen. Can heat be a problem when it's so close too the wall? Im also thinking about the loss of contrast with max zoom. Can it take away the meaning with getting a jvc for its dark blacks and high contrast, or would the loss of contrast be equally bad on all projectors when the zoom is being maxed out?
Im wondering because im also looking at the x70 and perhaps sonys vw95es and hw50es, and they all should have too have the same placement(and zoom if im not mistaking?) in my appartment. The room itself will be dark and light controlled.
post #3103 of 8041
Jvc actually put a proper cms adjustment in the 4810?! May indeed be worth it.
post #3104 of 8041
Zombie10K, sorry for taking so long to reply to this, and thanks for the review compliments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k 
Are you running those patterns in the 2D -> 3D conversion or is this a frame packed 3D source?
Frame packed. The test patterns I created are fed in via genuine Full HD 3D Blu-ray.

I also do testing of the side by side modes since some content is delivered this way.

2D->3D conversion mode would be useless for assessing resolution, since most devices are doing a sort of "pin cushion" or similar effect on the image to enhance perceived depth in this mode. That bulldozes any kind of resolution tests!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k 
I'm curious if you've run the resolution test on the JVC projectors. They look naturally sharp in 3D, similar to my experience with the 3D DLPs.
JVC UK just sent their entry level D-ILA projector to me for review, so you can expect to find out how it fares quite soon.
post #3105 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman 
Is it your opinion that this drop in resolution is due to the panels not responding fast enough? What else could cause it? I would've expected the Epsons/Panasonics to have more issues with resolution in 3D, given that they use an interlaced method in 3D according to cine4home.de.

An interlaced method? That's interesting, although that's probably partly masked by translation from German. "Interlacing", "interleaving", etc...

I don't know what the cause is. Sony seemed surprised when I pointed it out.

The Epson and Panasonic projectors I reviewed both resolved all resolution in 3D, although both had other issues.
Quote:
This FPD Benchmark disk: where can I get it? I'd love to test motion resolution with this.
As far as I'm aware, it has never been sold and was only made available to journalists.
Quote:
I'm surprised you found DFI usable with 24p content. The flicker is terrible; I feel like it's actually 24Hz flicker, not even frame-doubled 48Hz flicker.
Each to their own smile.gif I find the DFI brings back memories of 35mm film... only without the downsides of poorly made theatrical prints!
post #3106 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

Jvc actually put a proper cms adjustment in the 4810?! May indeed be worth it.
I guess it depends on what your definition of "proper CMS" is. But it worked for me.
post #3107 of 8041
A color management system that gets it spot on to Rec 709?
post #3108 of 8041
I can not find a dealer of Xpand or Monster Vision glasses over here - Is it possible to make the Optoma RF emitter and glasses work with an X30??? Paying 600$+ for 2 RF glasses and emitter is rather painful... :-(1.gif
post #3109 of 8041
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billsmith45 View Post

I can not find a dealer of Xpand or Monster Vision glasses over here - Is it possible to make the Optoma RF emitter and glasses work with an X30??? Paying 600$+ for 2 RF glasses and emitter is rather painful... :-(1.gif

The Optoma RF emitter is the same as the MV3D, both are made by the same company. As long as you have the 3 pin connector to plug into the JVC and provide the transmitter power via a micro-USB connector, it will work fine.
post #3110 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

A color management system that gets it spot on to Rec 709?
I guess it depends on what your definition of "spot on" is. To a dE of less than 3? That the JVC's CMS will do.
post #3111 of 8041
This thing still looks so attractive http://www.mitsubishielectric.ca/en/displays/projectors/PDF/brochure_8000D.pdf
Zombie, do you still have it? I think there is a way (a twisted one, but nevertheless) to mount it on your shelf to make it an eye-level: use maximum lens shift and angle it towards the floor to make it project on the screen. Use keystone correction to compensate...
post #3112 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

A color management system that gets it spot on to Rec 709?

A CMS can only be used to produce the limits of the spectrum the projector can produce. The projector must be designed (filters chosen to produce) the correct points or beyond. A CMS allows the projector to be adjusted to produce the correct points if the project is designed to produce them . Its not a design limitation of a CMS if the projector is not designed to achieve Rec 709. There are other reasons why the CMS in the JVC is not as good as others but the inability of the projector to meet fully Rec 709 is not one of them. That said, to me it is really no big deal because the JVC comes close enough not to have noticeable color errors in real life viewing.
post #3113 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

This thing still looks so attractive http://www.mitsubishielectric.ca/en/displays/projectors/PDF/brochure_8000D.pdf
Zombie, do you still have it? I think there is a way (a twisted one, but nevertheless) to mount it on your shelf to make it an eye-level: use maximum lens shift and angle it towards the floor to make it project on the screen. Use keystone correction to compensate...


Sounds like a plan. Love the part about using keystone adjustment. What's the purpose of the comparision once you use maximum lens shift and keystone adjustment?.
Edited by mark haflich - 1/21/13 at 11:23am
post #3114 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

I guess it depends on what your definition of "spot on" is. To a dE of less than 3? That the JVC's CMS will do.

Keep in mind too that "spot on" on the outside 6 points (3 primary, 3 secondary) doesn't mean that the other millions of points within the gamut are accurate (the area between the outside most saturated points and the center point). For years we've been patting ourselves on the back thinking that getting the outsides correct along with the greyscale meant a perfectly calibrated display when in fact many displays showed completely non-linear respones in the areas between the outside and center.

Kal
post #3115 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Sounds like a plan. Love the part about using keystone adjustment. What;s the purpose of the comparision once you use maximum lens shift and keystone adjustment?.

It'd probably be better to just make a temporary stand if he wants to compare the projector. That way you can stay close to the sweet spot on the lens and avoid keystone.
post #3116 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post

Keep in mind too that "spot on" on the outside 6 points (3 primary, 3 secondary) doesn't mean that the other millions of points within the gamut are accurate (the area between the outside most saturated points and the center point). For years we've been patting ourselves on the back thinking that getting the outsides correct along with the greyscale meant a perfectly calibrated display when in fact many displays showed completely non-linear respones in the areas between the outside and center.

Kal
Understood. But short of buying a Lumagen (or similar), the JVC's internal CMS seems to satisfy plissken99's "demands." smile.gif
post #3117 of 8041
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post

Keep in mind too that "spot on" on the outside 6 points (3 primary, 3 secondary) doesn't mean that the other millions of points within the gamut are accurate (the area between the outside most saturated points and the center point). For years we've been patting ourselves on the back thinking that getting the outsides correct along with the greyscale meant a perfectly calibrated display when in fact many displays showed completely non-linear respones in the areas between the outside and center.

Kal

I think most would be surprised if they saw saturation tracking errors under 100%. Some projectors are off by quite a bit while 100% looks golden.
post #3118 of 8041
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

This thing still looks so attractive http://www.mitsubishielectric.ca/en/displays/projectors/PDF/brochure_8000D.pdf
Zombie, do you still have it? I think there is a way (a twisted one, but nevertheless) to mount it on your shelf to make it an eye-level: use maximum lens shift and angle it towards the floor to make it project on the screen. Use keystone correction to compensate...

I had it in the best possible spot for my setup which was a low mount near the bottom of the screen. My screen is too large (very close to ceiling) so I couldn't go above.

I mentioned this earlier, but there was a difference in the PQ when switching between 4x and 6x mode in 2D. In 6x, the image look a little flatter, possibly due to a drop in brightness. I was 3 feet closer than most of the other projectors (14 feet vs. 17) and the projected image was 133" vs. 142", so it was difficult to fairly compare the overall 2D and 3D lumen output. I generally left the 2nd iris open since it wasn't bright enough for my preferences.

I did like the high speed 3D glasses.

it's a nice projector if the mounting requirements can be made to work. However, I think most folks have become spoiled by the wide range of mounting locations possible with the JVC, Sony, Epson and BQ W7000. The W7000 is proof that a 3D DLP can have a wide range of lens shift, so I'll be looking forward to see if any other DLP manufacturer comes up with a similar design and higher end specs.

The ideal setup would have been shoe-horning the 8000 DLP engine into the HC9000 chassis.
post #3119 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I think most would be surprised if they saw saturation tracking errors under 100%. Some projectors are off by quite a bit while 100% looks golden.

Which is why it's probably a good idea to calibrate at 75% and let the 100% fall outside the dE target as 75% is more in line with typical content.
post #3120 of 8041
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I had it in the best possible spot for my setup which was a low mount near the bottom of the screen.
I'll take your word for it.
*sigh*
But did you try dynamic iris? How was it? Mitsubishi promised 330000:1 contrast ratio!eek.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The ideal setup would have been shoe-horning the 8000 DLP engine into the HC9000 chassis.
I recently saw HC9000 against JVC X-30. I liked HC9000 much more. Cleaner image, brighter colors, smoother motion. Totally comparable contrast. I can't say anything about sharpness though.
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