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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 107

post #3181 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Just had a thought re 3D on JVCs: Has anyone tried raising the brightness level which will reduce the contrast? I'm just thinking that some of the cheaper 3D projectors that give a 'better' less ghosting 3D image yet have a lower contrast by far than the JVC. Just thinking if it makes any difference it might at least mean there would be less point buying a separate projector for 3D. I haven't got any 3D glasses or emitter with my X35 (I can't watch 3D for long anyway due to headaches).

I feel confident at this point that between all the 3d JVC regulars that are less than thrilled with the 3d performance that we have basically tried it all Kelvin! tongue.gif 3d is just not what the JVCs are meant to do IMHO. If you want quality 3d AND a JVC for 2d, you need 2 separate projectors. Maybe this will change with next years models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I would need 4 of those TV's to fill up my 142"... biggrin.gif

65 inch 16x9 display vs 142 inch 16x9 display

65-inch-16x9-vs-142-inch-16x9.png

Exactly! biggrin.gif My FP setup is not going ANYWHERE.................especially this HP screen.

I think you would need closer to 5 to fill up that screen! eek.gif
post #3182 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I feel confident at this point that between all the 3d JVC regulars that are less than thrilled with the 3d performance that we have basically tried it all Kelvin! tongue.gif 3d is just not what the JVCs are meant to do IMHO. If you want quality 3d AND a JVC for 2d, you need 2 separate projectors. Maybe this will change with next years models.

I think that's a weak argument and as a consumer you should ALWAYS be expecting more from a product. Being a submissive consumer means they will take advantage of us and things will never get better. If you take into consideration that Sony also uses LCOS panels, albeit a slightly different itteration, they do 3D much better than what JVC is currently doing. I think the current generation LCOS chips JVC uses in these projectors are being pushed to their limits. If they do an overhaul, like Sony recently did, a new generation of JVC projectors could have it all. Great native contrast, motion equal or better than what Sony offers, and solid 3D performance.
post #3183 of 8108
I think jvc gets the job done for the majority. If better 3D means that the 2D will suffer, then I think most would not consider a newer jvc. They are not the best 3D but their 2D makes up for it IMO. Plus, I use my jvc just for 2D.
post #3184 of 8108
Thread Starter 
JVC created e-shift which is one of the coolest projector technologies i've seen in recent years. It looks outstanding sitting close to my 142" 16:9.

They also have the best native contrast without a distracting DI. Now that my room is close to a black pit, I am much more aware of the iris on all the projectors i've demo'd in the shootout. I hardly, if ever noticed it before. It makes the JVC stand out even more with my dark sci-fi and stage concerts that can drive some of the DI's nuts.

There is a good chance they will have to make a major change in the fall since the current panels have likely been pushed to the limit given the changes / compromises in 3D vs. the competition. They will have to do this and make sure they don't compromise the native contrast since 1 thing is likely certain - they will never have a DI in a JVC.

I can't wait to see what happens in the fall. In the meantime, I have no problem running 2 projectors for 2D and 3D.
post #3185 of 8108
I decided to go with Sony hw50es and ordered one couple days ago. Special thanks to Zombie and xb1032 for sharing impressions comparing with JVC.
In my short list were Epson tw8100/5020, Panasonic ae8k, BenQ w1070 and Sony. Hope I'm not going wrong.
post #3186 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post

thank you bro, i m from turkey is it any chance to see or buy it online and read on notebook?

Sure, check out www.Zinio.com or searc "Zinio" on your tablet or phone's app store. I currently subscribe digitally and receive issues to my iPad and my phone automatically from one subscription.
post #3187 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Just had a thought re 3D on JVCs: Has anyone tried raising the brightness level which will reduce the contrast? I'm just thinking that some of the cheaper 3D projectors that give a 'better' less ghosting 3D image yet have a lower contrast by far than the JVC. Just thinking if it makes any difference it might at least mean there would be less point buying a separate projector for 3D. I haven't got any 3D glasses or emitter with my X35 (I can't watch 3D for long anyway due to headaches).

I raised brightness a few clicks on my old RS45 and it mainly helped with shadow detail at the expense of black levels. Since brightness sets black levels you really don't gain much brightness with the brightness adjustment. Also, iif I am recalling Zombie's findings properly he mentioned the newer JVCs improved or masked ghosting somewhat with lower brightness and if true this would potentially make ghosting more obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I think that's a weak argument and as a consumer you should ALWAYS be expecting more from a product. Being a submissive consumer means they will take advantage of us and things will never get better. If you take into consideration that Sony also uses LCOS panels, albeit a slightly different itteration, they do 3D much better than what JVC is currently doing. I think the current generation LCOS chips JVC uses in these projectors are being pushed to their limits. If they do an overhaul, like Sony recently did, a new generation of JVC projectors could have it all. Great native contrast, motion equal or better than what Sony offers, and solid 3D performance.

Before I moved into front projection I was a plasma guy and the last two I purchased were Pioneer Kuros. Pioneer's niche was black levels and there was a premium to pay for it. This is JVC's niche as well. The best blacks with the best contrast. JVC could learn a thing or two from Sony but at the same time Sony could learn a thing or two from JVC with their excellent contrast. One would have thought after years have passed that at some point someone would have picked up on JVC's secret to top notch contrast. If the HW50 had the contrast of the RS45 that would be a sight to see. The contrast is still good on the HW50 but just not quite as good as the JVCs. The RC makes the picture look much sharper than my RS45 and before I had the HW50 I never would have considered the RS4810 for the e-shift but it if's close to the added sharpness that RC gives on the Sony I probably would be considering the RS4810 over the RS46 if I were considering a JVC.
post #3188 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yusuf.0088 View Post

I decided to go with Sony hw50es and ordered one couple days ago. Special thanks to Zombie and xb1032 for sharing impressions comparing with JVC.
In my short list were Epson tw8100/5020, Panasonic ae8k, BenQ w1070 and Sony. Hope I'm not going wrong.

Glad I could help as an amateur as Zombie is the pro here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

...I can't wait to see what happens in the fall. In the meantime, I have no problem running 2 projectors for 2D and 3D.

Did you move from the W7000 to the Epson 5020 now being a brightness fanatic?

BTW, after your post about the buttkickers I picked up BK-LFE off of Amazon and I am impressed. I have 3 15" subs but the space in the room is tight and this is going to help me replace one of the subs for the extra room. I moved one of the other subs to a different location and it actually works better. Plus with the Buttkicker I can feel the bass heavier at lower volumes which will help keep my wife from complaining at me;). Thanks for the tip!
post #3189 of 8108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Glad I could help as an amateur as Zombie is the pro here.
Did you move from the W7000 to the Epson 5020 now being a brightness fanatic?

BTW, after your post about the buttkickers I picked up BK-LFE off of Amazon and I am impressed. I have 3 15" subs but the space in the room is tight and this is going to help me replace one of the subs for the extra room. I moved one of the other subs to a different location and it actually works better. Plus with the Buttkicker I can feel the bass heavier at lower volumes which will help keep my wife from complaining at me;). Thanks for the tip!

I'm still going back and forth between the W7000 and the 5020. I have to re-calibrate both behind the glasses and sit down for a mini 3D shootout between these 2 models to make a decision.

I only hooked up 1 of the 4 buttkickers so far since I've had a number of other projects to finish like blacking out the ceiling. I can't wait to install the other 3 since the BK makes me laugh every time the bass starts getting heavy. When it's tuned right, it's an amazing extension of the subs.

It's going to be fun surprising visitors who will have no idea what's going on when it feels like the ground is shaking. cool.gif
post #3190 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

This is JVC's niche as well. The best blacks with the best contrast. JVC could learn a thing or two from Sony but at the same time Sony could learn a thing or two from JVC with their excellent contrast.

Trade secrets, there might be some patents preventing them from reverse engineering everything each other are doing. Though I suspect that some of the engineering techniques employed by the two companies would automatically add some deficiency to each other's techniques, probably combining the 2 R&D departments would not yield a projector with all benefits of both, but I imagine it would yield quite an awesome machine. Single chip DLP is probably still the best tech, if they could get the Native ON/Off above 6000:1 and implement an IRIS as advanced as the Sony all for under $5000, but it isn't going to happen so it appears. When pigs fly maybe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

It's going to be fun surprising visitors who will have no idea what's going on when it feels like the ground is shaking. cool.gif

Much more fear factor if you do it while on the West Coast rather than the East Coast.
post #3191 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I suspect you know most of this but I'll give my rational.....
I do use the AVS disk for checking Brightness. But I also use the method I described earlier as I never want to increase the black floor - regardless of how well I can see level 17. For example, adjusting the brightness control from 0 to +1 makes level 17 easier to see but it also raises level 16. That is a compromise I'm not willing to make. By displaying a 0% pattern and changing brightness between 0 and +1 I can clearly, and easily, see a luminance change. Not good. Another way to do this uses the "Hide" trick. It entails displaying a level 16 (0%) pattern and comparing that to using the JVC Hide command. Hide is the absolute lowest black the projector can produce. If there is a difference in luminance between the 0% pattern and the Hide "pattern" the black floor of the projector is being raised.

The way to improve the visibility of level 17 without compromising level 16 is with a custom gamma curve....some use the dark level control.

Edit....I probably didn't answer your question....Yes, I prefer the 0% pattern with either of the methods described (I usually try both since it's just a different remote command). I use the Lumagen to generate the 0% pattern. I don't use a meter because I'm lazy and would have to have it facing the projector to get any sort of reliable reading. Next time I calibrate I may try a BT1886 curve and in that case I will need to have the meter facing the projector because I need to input the black floor level in cd/m2 so I'll have the opportunity to see if I've been fooling myself with the 0% meter-less method. But I also run the brightness pattern on the AVS disc as a sanity check. Plus, it's useful to look at this after fiddling with gamma.

Thank you. I've used avshd & dark level control only. I'll try your 0% & hide method this weekend. In your case, if you find brightness -7 gives you the same black level between 0% pattern & hide button and brightness -6 slightly floats black level, you set it to -7?
When it comes to black level measurement, my i1D3 meter couldn't measure luminance correctly if I set the aperture -15, It's just 0. And if I raise aperture a little bit like -13, it's measured like 0.002 cd/m^2. Prolly the lowest black level you may enter in auto-cal menu is 0.002+ when i1D3 is used. Btw, Auto-cal for gamma BT1886 with actually luminance results in much better calibration.
Edited by freebits - 1/23/13 at 9:13pm
post #3192 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Trade secrets, there might be some patents preventing them from reverse engineering everything each other are doing. Though I suspect that some of the engineering techniques employed by the two companies would automatically add some deficiency to each other's techniques, probably combining the 2 R&D departments would not yield a projector with all benefits of both, but I imagine it would yield quite an awesome machine. Single chip DLP is probably still the best tech, if they could get the Native ON/Off above 6000:1 and implement an IRIS as advanced as the Sony all for under $5000, but it isn't going to happen so it appears. When pigs fly maybe.

I think there's a bigger issue at hand here. That issue has to do with how well dynamic irises are implemented. You start to notice things when reading reviews. Something I've picked up is that most "effective" dynamic irises typically don't boost the native contrast by any more than 4-5 times. What I mean by "effective" is a dynamic iris that is smooth and rarely detectable. The trend seems to point out that DI's that dig deeper than 4-5 times the native contrast are very aggressive. While they boost well past 4-5 times the native CR they are just too visible, obvious, and distracting to use in real world scenarios. So if DLP is going to compete with LCOS it's going to need be a lot more than 6000:1.

I personally don't need to have the best On/Off contrast numbers to be satisfied. I'm quite happy at around a measured and real 12000:1 On/Off coupled with high ANSI contrast (measured in the eight hundreds) that my two current DLPs render. I personally think they give a satisfying level of black that doesn't look like it should be any darker. That is, I've never watched a particular scene and thought an area looked "grey" or somehow needed to be darker to be convincing. Yes, I've witnessed what much higher native contrast can look like and while it does have a pleasing look on the darkest of dark scenes, for the remaining scenes the high ANSI contrast coupled with relatively high on/off contrast looks just as good if not better. One scene that no DLP has ever looked anywhere as good on a JVC is a scene in Lord of the Rings: Return of the King when Gandalf and Pippin are in Minas Tirith. It's the first night scene after they arrive and are out on a balcony talking. There's a shot looking out towards Mordor and the mountain range across the plains. It looks INCREDIBLE on a JVC. If you have the Extended version go to 54:03 on the first disc to see. But alas, a good DLP projector satfisfies me a lot more than any JVC I've owned in regards to overall picture quality. Maybe when pigs fly we'll find some breakthrough so we can have it all.

I think that many of the threads these days focus way too much of contrast alone, especially when every machine in this particular thread reaches a black level and contrast ratio that would satisfy all by the pickiest and in the end those who are the most picky buy the JVC and are fine with the lower performing areas these projectors have elsewhere (3D, bulb life, hard to calibrate gamma , ect).
Edited by Seegs108 - 1/23/13 at 11:51pm
post #3193 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I raised brightness a few clicks on my old RS45 and it mainly helped with shadow detail at the expense of black levels. Since brightness sets black levels you really don't gain much brightness with the brightness adjustment. Also, iif I am recalling Zombie's findings properly he mentioned the newer JVCs improved or masked ghosting somewhat with lower brightness and if true this would potentially make ghosting more obvious.

I was more thinking about raising the black level to reduce contrast as I know that the brightness control doesn't increase peak white, it just makes blacks grey(er). It sounds like it wouldn't be much help anyway from Zombie's findings as it might make ghosting even more obvious. Anyway, it was just a suggestion and something that has obviously been thought about before. Thankfully I'm 2D only myself so I can chose the projector with the best black levels which is my preference, especially since I can't watch single chip DLP due to headaches and rainbows.
post #3194 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I think that's a weak argument and as a consumer you should ALWAYS be expecting more from a product. Being a submissive consumer means they will take advantage of us and things will never get better. If you take into consideration that Sony also uses LCOS panels, albeit a slightly different itteration, they do 3D much better than what JVC is currently doing. I think the current generation LCOS chips JVC uses in these projectors are being pushed to their limits. If they do an overhaul, like Sony recently did, a new generation of JVC projectors could have it all. Great native contrast, motion equal or better than what Sony offers, and solid 3D performance.

There is no argument about it, just the way it is with the current and past JVCs as far as 3d goes. There has been nothing submissive about my JVC 3d opinion, but at the same time you have to call it like it is. Expectations need to be kept in check in relation to the hype train, like the one that comes out of Cedia every year and if not, you are most likely setting youself up for a fall. I think it is much wiser to HOPE for the best but be smart enough not to count the chickens before they hatch in awesome threads like this one.

I certainly hope JVC can make real no compromise 3d improvement next year, but only if it does not come at the expense of 2d in any way shape or form since that is and most likely always will be what they are known for, not their 3d. As vocal as I have been about my RS40/45 as far as 3d goes, that area was never my main focus for buying a JVC. If you are buying any JVC up to this point, your primary goal is (or should be) quality 2d and as much as I like 3d, I hope JVC maintains that focus.

On a separate note, has anyone had lamp flickering develope on high lamp on their JVC? I just did my 2.35 calibration in high lamp and when I sat back to check out the results tonight I noticed that the high lamp setting flickers in a perfect tempo which does not happen in low lamp. frown.gif
post #3195 of 8108
I've given up hope on any NON-DLP for 3D to be honest, even my friend's Epson 5010 is starting to ghost worse than when he had a new lamp (saw it 2 days ago), 1200 hours on his lamp now I think. Between 500 to 1000 hours his ghosting increased a lot, it's still not that bad (nowhere near the JVC's), but it's substantial enough to be distracting on some scenes after being used to zero ghosting on the Benq.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I think there's a bigger issue at hand here. That issue has to do with how well dynamic irises are implemented. It looks INCREDIBLE on a JVC. If you have the Extended version go to 54:03 on the first disc to see. But alas, a good DLP projector satfisfies me a lot more than any JVC I've owned in regards to overall picture quality. Maybe when pigs fly we'll find some breakthrough so we can have it all.

I think that many of the threads these days focus way too much of contrast alone, especially when every machine in this particular thread reaches a black level and contrast ratio that would satisfy all by the pickiest

The Benq blacks surely doesn't satisfy all but the pickiest, I still think even the JVC's could do a lot better black levels. It depends how bright someone watches it as well though I suppose, I like to watch bright PJ's with dark blacks and those two kind of contradict. The JVC needs an IRIS IMHO to re-gain a substantial lead over the Sony hw50.

There are some movies where the JVC's just sink other projectors, the Harry Potter movies are still where I saw it the most (although I will probably never watch another Harry Potter movie, so burned out). The JVC tore these movies up, and I've watched some of these on other PJ's and it looked bad, when I saw HP movies at the theater it was horrible compared to the JVC at home.

I agree it's partly bad IRIS programming, but with a good IRIS you can do 5x 6000 = 30,000:1, that is about the same as a low-end JVC. It's just bad IRIS code on most of these. I've done several IRIS tests and many IRIS's just do not work correctly. I guess they don't budget that much development money to the IRIS. Of they really want to make IRIS's better, they need to use read-ahead buffers, of course that won't work in gaming, but it could work for bluray watching, although it would cause some side effects as the projector would need to pre-cache a few seconds worth of video.
Edited by coderguy - 1/24/13 at 1:31am
post #3196 of 8108
Perhaps this may be useful for some
http://www.ixbt.com/dvd/sony-vpl-hw50es.shtml
post #3197 of 8108
Awesome review as always.
post #3198 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

JVC created e-shift which is one of the coolest projector technologies i've seen in recent years. It looks outstanding sitting close to my 142" 16:9.
quote]
+1. I've had quite a few projectors over the last few years I agree, e-shift is an excellent feature. I'm surprised at the benefit I get from it but it wasn't exactly what I was expecting. I thought e-shift was supposed to make the image look sharper but there is more to it than that. My RS65 shoots onto a 132" scope screen and satellite tv always look 'just ok' at that size on my other projectors. Acceptable but not great. With e-shift its a whole new image I'm looking at. Really solid, no digital look and while its not as sharp as blu-ray, the image is solid as a rock and looks really really good. Throw in a good blu-ray and then its wow time!
I'm totally sold on e-shift now, its certainly no gimmic and a very worthwhile piece of technology.
post #3199 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

Can someone share the xYY equivalents of the rs46, rs4810 and rs55?

What are you asking for? I assume xyY. But which ones, after application of the CMSs on the 4810 and 55. The 46 OTB/ Please be more specific.
post #3200 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

Thank you. I've used avshd & dark level control only. I'll try your 0% & hide method this weekend. In your case, if you find brightness -7 gives you the same black level between 0% pattern & hide button and brightness -6 slightly floats black level, you set it to -7?
When it comes to black level measurement, my i1D3 meter couldn't measure luminance correctly if I set the aperture -15, It's just 0. And if I raise aperture a little bit like -13, it's measured like 0.002 cd/m^2. Prolly the lowest black level you may enter in auto-cal menu is 0.002+ when i1D3 is used. Btw, Auto-cal for gamma BT1886 with actually luminance results in much better calibration.
Yes, I have it set to -7 for that reason (and because I'm using HDMI Enhanced in the JVC). Raising the black floor decreases contrast but I have a JVC because I like high contrast so therein lies the rub - and the reason I won't raise the black floor.

I briefly tried measuring 0% black (but not with the meter facing the projector with the diffuser in place) but changing the iris changes the CR so I'm not sure it's valid to be diddling the iris to make measurements.


On another note I looked and could not find the "Black Level" control on my RS4810.
post #3201 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

I was more thinking about raising the black level to reduce contrast as I know that the brightness control doesn't increase peak white, it just makes blacks grey(er). It sounds like it wouldn't be much help anyway from Zombie's findings as it might make ghosting even more obvious. Anyway, it was just a suggestion and something that has obviously been thought about before. Thankfully I'm 2D only myself so I can chose the projector with the best black levels which is my preference, especially since I can't watch single chip DLP due to headaches and rainbows.


Kelvin

If you wanted to test your ide, just lower the contrast control, not the brightness control - I dont know if it will lower the ghosting on the JVC, maybe Zombie have tryed ?


dj
Edited by d.j. - 1/24/13 at 8:49am
post #3202 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

On another note I looked and could not find the "Black Level" control on my RS4810.

Yes. On RS4810, we have 'dark/bright level' for RGB & White. On RS46, it has 'Black Level' control.
post #3203 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

Yes. On RS4810, we have 'dark/bright level' for RGB & White. On RS46, it has 'Black Level' control.
My RS55 had both....

If the Black level control is a fine adjust for Brightness then it would be nice to have....rolleyes.gif
post #3204 of 8108
I've looked at the owners manuals for this years JVC's and discovered this:

RS48, RS56, RS66 all have an Environment Setting
The users manual states:
"By configuring “Environment Setting” according to the viewing environment, image quality adjustment and correction according to environmental differences are performed automatically to minimize any influence on the image quality."
Settings/Adjustments include: screen size, viewing distance (seat to screen) and wall color.

RS46 has a Black Level Setting
The users manual states:
"For setting the black level in the environment of use.
A frame as shown on the right appears at the center (gradation is accentuated in the illustration, but not in the actual image). [Note: They're referring to the two black squares that Kelvin mentions]
The current black tone is displayed on the right side. Adjust accordingly until the boundary line with the left frame is no longer noticeable.
This adjustment reduces the black side, and has a subtle influence from the black (dark) side to the white (bright) side. Adjust according to your preference."

Some of this sounds like gobblie gook to me (This adjustment reduces the black side, and has a subtle influence from the black (dark) side to the white (bright) side) but I gather that JVC intends that the Environment setting is an upscale version of the Black Level setting. So I'm confused.....I've set the Environment settings but I didn't notice any difference at the time. I guess I'll have to play [ahem, experiment] with this some more. One question that immediately jumps into my head is what effect does screen size/viewing distance have [if any] on eshift2 (and/or 3D)???
Edited by Geof - 1/24/13 at 6:28am
post #3205 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

One question that immediately jumps into my head is what effect does screen size/viewing distance have [if any] on eshift2 (and/or 3D)???
That is really the case, JVC should have written some comments on the correlation in the manual.
post #3206 of 8108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Yes, I read it. He gives black level and brightness measurements, contrast numbers, etc. for his screen and setup. He says all three are better than last year's models, and much better than $10,000 projectors from not very long ago. He notes that ghosting is worst on the JVC, but that overall he prefers it because of the high native contrast. It seems very much in line with many of the conclusions we're seeing here. In other words, most people are going to be happy with any of these projectors, but your priorities will determine which is the best fit for you.

I just read his review last night on S&V. This was a great comparison of the 5020, HW50 and the RS46. It's pretty much saying the same thing we've discussed in the shootout thread.

He points out the specific pros and cons with the 5020 being the 'lumen leader' in 3D. 1400 lumens in 3D is impressive and has me considering a change from the W7000 to the 5020 for 3D. The Epson 3D glasses are my favorite of the factory glasses. If only it had FI in 3D, it would have made the decision easier since FI on the W7000 in 3D looks excellent.

He also point out that contrast fanatics are going to love the RS46 as the competitors are not quite the same with the tough content. With my newly blacked out room and my HP screen, the black floor on the HW50 and 5020 is very good, but not as convincing as the RS55 @ -11. You don't have too look much past the black bars on scope movies to see the difference.

However the 5020 and HW50 are still several notches better than the recent Mitsubishi HC8000 that I saw recently. It's hard to get a convincing black floor with the competing DLP's at this price point, especially with an HP screen.

definitely a recommend read for those trying to decide between these 3 models.
post #3207 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

rs46=X35
rs4810=x55
rs55=X70
if you meant
rs56=X75

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post



What are you asking for? I assume xyY. But which ones, after application of the CMSs on the 4810 and 55. The 46 OTB/ Please be more specific.

That's what I assumed he was asking for, the X models equivalence with the RS models, but I might have been wrong.
post #3208 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

rs46=X35
rs4810=x55
rs55=X70
if you meant
rs56=X75

Thanks!

(yes, I meant the 56...)
post #3209 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Kevin

If you wanted to test your ide, just lower the contrast control, not the brightness control - I dont know if it will lower the ghosting on the JVC, maybe Zombie have tryed ?


dj

As it's already been mentioned that it has been tried then it's a moot point, but it seems that you've missed my point:

My suggestion to raise the black level slightly to reduce the contrast ratio since a small increase in black level can reduce the overall contrast ratio. My idea was that perhaps there is some issue with the speed of the panels and therefore if not allowing them to go as fully into black as using the correct brightness setting, then perhaps it might improve crosstalk. Lowering the contrast control would have a similar effect by limiting peak white, so just two ways of achieving the same thing, except my way doesn't reduce the peak light output which seems to be more in keeping with trying to keep 3D as bright as possible. The cheaper 3D options some are buying for 3D only use along with a JVC for 2D have much less contrast than the JVC, so my idea was based on 'throwing away' some of that contrast. If for example these DLP models have 5,000:1 contrast, then we could raise the brightness control quite a few clicks before even an X35 was only producing that level of contrast. If it saved buying a second projector then I figured it might be worthwhile, but as I said I can't test this since I don't have any 3D glasses or emitter,it was just an idea that I though might be worth trying, though it seems not.

I know that raising the brightness control won't increase the peak white output, which is the mistake many new projector owners make when fiddling with the controls. wink.gif

BTW There's an 'L' in my name. wink.gif
post #3210 of 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

As it's already been mentioned that it has been tried then it's a moot point, but it seems that you've missed my point: My suggestion to raise the black level slightly to reduce the contrast ratio since a small increase in black level can reduce the overall contrast ratio. My idea was that perhaps there is some issue with the speed of the panels and therefore if not allowing them to go as fully into black as using the correct brightness setting, then perhaps it might improve crosstalk. Lowering the contrast control would have a similar effect by limiting peak white, so just two ways of achieving the same thing, except my way doesn't reduce the peak light output which seems to be more in keeping with trying to keep 3D as bright as possible.

I know that raising the brightness control won't increase the peak white output, which is the mistake many new projector owners make when fiddling with the controls. wink.gif

BTW There's an 'L' in my name. wink.gif


Sorry Kelvin redface.gif


dj
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