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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 119

post #3541 of 8111
Camping out in your home theater by pitching a tent! A home theater safari!
post #3542 of 8111
Thread Starter 
Skyfall is a definitely a reference disk to use for showing off the projectors. Skyfall, Samsara and the Dark Knight Rises gives some faith that BD's have some steam left in them. Garbage in Garbage out. If the source is quality, it's going to look great.

skyfall_jvc.jpg

skyfall_jvc1.jpg

skyfall_jvc2.jpg

skyfall_jvc3.jpg

skyfall_jvc4.jpg
post #3543 of 8111
Zombie, which projector have you seen that's the best at shadow detail?
post #3544 of 8111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

Zombie, which projector have you seen that's the best at shadow detail?

This is mainly a function of gamma settings. Some of the projectors are better out of the box than others. A good example is the Sony HW50. The Gamma is very consistent on a number of the copies I've calibrated over the last few months. All can be tweaked to near perfection if you spend the time with the calibration equipment.
post #3545 of 8111
I have an RS-35 right now. Really only owned JCV projectors as not many projectors are capable of my 19' throw onto a 100" diagonal screen. Always wondered how one of the higher end dlps with the optional long throw lenses would stack up in terms of shadow detail. Black crush really seems to bother me.
post #3546 of 8111
Like Zombie and a few others have mentioned Skyfall looks incredible! I did the Tree of Life, Samsara and Skyfall triple feature today which was one eyegasm after another. cool.gif
post #3547 of 8111
Just finished Skyfall with my 4810. WOW. So glad I got the 4810 with all those beautiful night shots. Amazing!
post #3548 of 8111
It's no surprise. Skyfall was shot with Arri Alexa digital camera.

These following films are also shot with Alexa cam.
Hugo, In time, Avengers, Game of Thrones, Drive, Rock of Ages, Chronicle
post #3549 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Skyfall is a definitely a reference disk to use for showing off the projectors. Skyfall, Samsara and the Dark Knight Rises gives some faith that BD's have some steam left in them. Garbage in Garbage out. If the source is quality, it's going to look great.

Beautyful shots. What a pity that the movie itself is shockingly awful and stupid.
post #3550 of 8111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

It's no surprise. Skyfall was shot with Arri Alexa digital camera.

These following films are also shot with Alexa cam.
Hugo, In time, Avengers, Game of Thrones, Drive, Rock of Ages, Chronicle

I read that one of the features it has over over the RED cameras is the ability to do HDR for increased dynamic range. Maybe this explains why the inside shots at the Skyfall mansion looked so good.
post #3551 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I read that one of the features it has over over the RED cameras is the ability to do HDR for increased dynamic range. Maybe this explains why the inside shoots at the Skyfall mansion looked so good.

It depends on the RED model being used. It looks like the two newest RED models can match the dynamic range now, plus can shoot at 5K. Things look promising for the future of digital photography!
post #3552 of 8111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

It depends on the RED model being used. It looks like the two newest RED models can match the dynamic range now, plus can shoot at 5K. Things look promising for the future of digital photography!

I still think it's hard to beat the 70MM footage from the Batman movies. These scenes look incredible on the 142" + e-shift.

it is impressive though how the digital cameras can create the look of film now.
post #3553 of 8111
Just looked at Skyfall on my RS55. Jaw dropping in every possible way.

And it's funny how living with E-shift, a large image with zero pixel structure and amazing clarity, seems to have made me more sensitive to the pixel structure in other displays. Now when I'm in AV stores I keep noticing the pixel structure on the flat panels. It's so nice viewing such a perfectly smooth and amazingly refined image at home...at such a large size to boot.
post #3554 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I still think it's hard to beat the 70MM footage from the Batman movies.

I agree 70mm is great when properly converted to Bluray.

But the batman movies? I thought those transfers were bad? Were they remastered and i missed it?
post #3555 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

I agree 70mm is great when properly converted to Bluray.

But the batman movies? I thought those transfers were bad? Were they remastered and i missed it?

The 35mm footage isn't anything to write home about, but what was shot on 70mm film looks particularly amazing.
post #3556 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya Volk View Post

Beautyful shots. What a pity that the movie itself is shockingly awful and stupid.

Some might describe some of the posts on AV Science forum the same way. smile.gif


I just picked up Skyfall at Best Buy thismorning. The same price as on Amazon plus tax.

Haven't ewatched it yet.

On HT the shawdow detail should be much better than in the theater. Zombie said the shadow detail will depend on the gamma setting of the projector but it will be projector dependent as well, set up dependent. One must have enough on off contrast ratio, delivered to the screen, to support the specific gamma you set. If not the blacks (shawdow detail) will be crushed.

While the shawdow detail abd blacks will be better in out home theaters, the commercial projection will have more colors, using the DCI colorspace rather than the smaller Rec 709 space and won't have some of the compression and edge enhancement artifacts that just about all Bluray have. Also less colors because of being 8 bit rather than 10 bits or 12, whatever commercial theaters and DCI sources have.
post #3557 of 8111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Just looked at Skyfall on my RS55. Jaw dropping in every possible way.

And it's funny how living with E-shift, a large image with zero pixel structure and amazing clarity, seems to have made me more sensitive to the pixel structure in other displays. Now when I'm in AV stores I keep noticing the pixel structure on the flat panels. It's so nice viewing such a perfectly smooth and amazingly refined image at home...at such a large size to boot.

None of the other models I've seen are as convincing as the RS55 @ -11 in the dark scenes. The last 1/2 hour of this movie is what the JVC does best.

e-shift1 + darbee + 142" 2.8HP + black ceiling = happy HT viewing biggrin.gif
post #3558 of 8111
Jason hello what do you prefer for watching ur blurays? Oppo / ps3 or another? I wonder there is an image quality difference oppo vs ps3 about bluray content
post #3559 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

None of the other models I've seen are as convincing as the RS55 @ -11 in the dark scenes. The last 1/2 hour of this movie is what the JVC does best.

e-shift1 + darbee + 142" 2.8HP + black ceiling = happy HT viewing biggrin.gif

That reminds me, I've been wanting to ask anyone who knows about calibration:

My RS55 was calibrated beautifully to a 2.2 gamma (by umr) and the level of shadow detail, and over all detail is tremendous at that calibrated setting. The only thing I feel I'm missing sometimes is the added depth and richness of a higher gamma. But when I switch to 2.3 I lose some shadow detail. I remember reading that there is a "black level" adjustment setting
somewhere in the picture menu which raises the lower gamma to bring out lower end shadow detail, but without raising the black floor. Is this correct and has anyone put this to use?
I'm wondering if that would help out my issue with a higher gamma.

Thanks,
post #3560 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post

Jason hello what do you prefer for watching ur blurays? Oppo / ps3 or another? I wonder there is an image quality difference oppo vs ps3 about bluray content

According to every Oppo owner that I have talked to that has owned both, they all have said the Oppo does a better job with video.
Reply
Reply
post #3561 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post

Jason hello what do you prefer for watching ur blurays? Oppo / ps3 or another? I wonder there is an image quality difference oppo vs ps3 about bluray content

Shoot forum member 5mark a PM and ask his thoughts. I know he has done quite a bit of comparing between the PS3 and 103 recently and is well in tune to whatever differences there may or may not be between these 2 in particular. He has a great eye for video in general as well so it would be very helpful to get his thoughts. Having said that, I am sure Jason can give you some excellent advice about how a HTPC compares to a standalone which I would love to hear about as well.
post #3562 of 8111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

That reminds me, I've been wanting to ask anyone who knows about calibration:

My RS55 was calibrated beautifully to a 2.2 gamma (by umr) and the level of shadow detail, and over all detail is tremendous at that calibrated setting. The only thing I feel I'm missing sometimes is the added depth and richness of a higher gamma. But when I switch to 2.3 I lose some shadow detail. I remember reading that there is a "black level" adjustment setting
somewhere in the picture menu which raises the lower gamma to bring out lower end shadow detail, but without raising the black floor. Is this correct and has anyone put this to use?
I'm wondering if that would help out my issue with a higher gamma.

Thanks,

Rich, hi you should definitely play around with the darkness controls, it's right there under the main menu. I will often turn it up to 4 and leave it there for movies with dark content.

It's only adjusting the lower end of the gamma and you can do it in real time, meaning just pause a scene that's bugging you and adjust the setting to your liking. let me know how it works for you.

jvc-darkness.jpg
post #3563 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

That reminds me, I've been wanting to ask anyone who knows about calibration:

My RS55 was calibrated beautifully to a 2.2 gamma (by umr) and the level of shadow detail, and over all detail is tremendous at that calibrated setting. The only thing I feel I'm missing sometimes is the added depth and richness of a higher gamma. But when I switch to 2.3 I lose some shadow detail. I remember reading that there is a "black level" adjustment setting
somewhere in the picture menu which raises the lower gamma to bring out lower end shadow detail, but without raising the black floor. Is this correct and has anyone put this to use?
I'm wondering if that would help out my issue with a higher gamma.

Thanks,

Rich. The problem you are experiencing is that a higher gamma is too much for the actual on off you are getting on your screen. remember the on off spec is at long throw, max closed iris, low lamp. To run a 2.3 gamma without black crush you need sonething like an actual on screen on off of about 35,000 to one.

there is a control in the JVC picture menu to let one change a set linear gamma to an S curve. In other words at the low end, the control lets you lowerthe gamma level to avoid black crush due to insufficient on off. At the high end, the control lets you raise the gamma because there is no danger there. So you could set a 2.3 or even a 2.4 and lower the gamma at the low end and raise it even higher at the high end. I don't have a JVC handy but you can look in the manual.. Hope this helps.

Simultaneous post by our most valuable poster zombie tells you all you need.
post #3564 of 8111
Thank you Mark and zombie! I'll try it out.

Rich
post #3565 of 8111
Even the low end JVCs have this control, probably because out of the box blacks tend to be crushed.
post #3566 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Even the low end JVCs have this control, probably because out of the box blacks tend to be crushed.

I dont think the RS45 has it as I have looked before.... confused.gif It has the black level control with the 2 rectangles that pop up which is different vs the dark level control, but I dont see any dark level control on the 45 unless I am missing it.
post #3567 of 8111
The RS-45 has it under custom gamma. You can fine tune it and even adjust the individual RGB for the various levels.
post #3568 of 8111
Thread Starter 
I think we're talking about different settings. The Darkness / Brightness gamma controls are only in the 55/65 + the newer models starting with the X55/RS4810.
post #3569 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

The RS-45 has it under custom gamma. You can fine tune it and even adjust the individual RGB for the various levels.

Its not there either. As Zombie mentioned above it is not in the lower end models.
post #3570 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I think we're talking about different settings. The Darkness / Brightness gamma controls are only in the 55/65 + the newer models starting with the X55/RS4810.

cool.gif I will try this, but what dark level is rising, 10, 20, 30 IRE - maybe everything up to 30?

Also, can someone explain where to set iris with regard to calibration.
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