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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 144

post #4291 of 8048
As told to me by Technical support:

Yes the HC5 and HC9000 internally are nearly identical. I have never heard of any known issues with the 9000’s power board specifically, but according to the service manual for the HC5 there is a different part number for the Power PCB vs the 9000. In regards to the firmware profile, there was a known issue with the 3D FRC (Frame Rate Conversion) when the 9000 first came out, but this has since been corrected with a firmware update which has been implemented on all the HC5 units.



Regards,

Mitsubishi Electric Visual Solutions America,INC.
post #4292 of 8048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

You and I are not in-the-know, But several in-the-know people have made claims like this. So by you saying they are exactly the same is a statement that is also spreading FUD. I realize that most of the parts are the same, but because some of the people who have direct contact with these manufacturers have said differently I'm skeptical.

So I say the same thing to you, show me definitive proof they are exactly the same. Either put up or shut up.


You and I are actually on the same page. As a "not in the know" person, I would call on those who say they are to put up...I'll shut up ( at least I will admit I don't have access to the truth, but as Mulder says, it is out there smile.gif). I was only pointing out that the one piece of "proof" posited by one of the so called "in the know" people was that the HC5 weighed less. That is what I called BS on, not your post.
post #4293 of 8048
post #4294 of 8048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedplay View Post

As told to me by Technical support:

Yes the HC5 and HC9000 internally are nearly identical. I have never heard of any known issues with the 9000’s power board specifically, but according to the service manual for the HC5 there is a different part number for the Power PCB vs the 9000. In regards to the firmware profile, there was a known issue with the 3D FRC (Frame Rate Conversion) when the 9000 first came out, but this has since been corrected with a firmware update which has been implemented on all the HC5 units.



Regards,

Mitsubishi Electric Visual Solutions America,INC.

I know they re-released the 9000D as an updated projector under the 9000D-A (or something like that) name which had an updated power supply. That updated power supply could be the one he's talking about that's in the HC5. You should ask him if he knows what is different? I also suspect quality control on the HC5 is no where near the same as what the the 9000D had.
post #4295 of 8048
Thread Starter 
if there was actually a weight variance, it's irrelevant. All accounts of the HC9000 and HC5 PQ are identical, down to the dE's on the color gamut, non functional CMS and 3D crosstalk.

it's more plausible they are identical than not.
post #4296 of 8048
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

if there was actually a weight variance, it's irrelevant. All accounts of the HC9000 and HC5 PQ are identical, down to the dE's on the color gamut, non functional CMS and 3D crosstalk.

it's more plausible they are identical than not.

The technician did say they were "nearly identical". Whether or not he was referring to just the power supply is still unknown. Yes, the vast majority of the components are the same and hopefully all. With that said, even if they aren't, PQ is very good at the price you pay for this unit. I think we can all agree on that.
post #4297 of 8048
Thread Starter 
For those that paid only $1799, it's a very nice 2D projector you couldn't get for this price 2+ years ago. It's no wonder though why the HC9000 didn't make it as the MAP price on launch or even the previous mid 3K 'discount' price. There was too much competition from JVC and Sony.

The VW95 release in late 2011 was the KOD on this model.

time to go run a 125 pt auto-cal, I want to see how much the mini-3D can wrangle in the color gamut.
post #4298 of 8048
Thread Starter 
HC5 vs. X35 / Native Sharpness - Both samples have good focus and convergence. The X35/RS46 is the closest in price to the current sale price for the HC5.

The HC5's pixel structure appears similar to the HW30/HW50 and VW95. It's there if you look close, but not well defined. The JVC's in general have a well defined pixel structure, especially if you get one with a good lens.

HC5 - Camera is ~ 5" from the screen.

mits-vs-jvc.jpg

JVC X35

mits-vs-jvc1.jpg

HC5

mits-vs-jvc2.jpg

JVC X35

mits-vs-jvc3.jpg

The JVC appears to be more naturally sharp than the Mitsubishi sitting 14 feet from my 142" 16:9. The difference should be less with a smaller screen.

The JVC LCOS panel is closest in appearance to a single panel DLP vs. SXRD or LCD.

This is a good read on inter-pixel contrast and it's influence on perceived sharpness. it looks like JVC made it's first big step with the RS35.

http://www.videovantage.com/?p=819
post #4299 of 8048
I say you almost get a e-Shift-like effect with the HC5 wink.gif I am sitting 1,5 meters from the screen and I really appreciate the lack of pixelation.
post #4300 of 8048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

I say you almost get a e-Shift-like effect with the HC5 wink.gif I am sitting 1,5 meters from the screen and I really appreciate the lack of pixelation.

That's pretty close! Old news but as someone who also has too sit too close I would consider a Darbee if you haven't given it a try yet. I had to move to 8' from a 120" screen when I was used to about 6000 hrs at 11-12'. It gave me some perceived sharpness back anyhow.
post #4301 of 8048
@Fishtank Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I already have one smile.gif Now I just lack a nice screen (soon to be here) and a room treatment.

Zombie, by the way, your convergence seems better than mine. You always seem to receive a well-converged units. smile.gif
post #4302 of 8048
Would going from a W1070 to the Sony HW50E be a huge upgrade?

Looking for gaming and movies and some 3D smile.gif
post #4303 of 8048
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

HC5 vs. X35 / Native Sharpness - Both samples have good focus and convergence. The X35/RS46 is the closest in price to the current sale price for the HC5.

The HC5's pixel structure appears similar to the HW30/HW50 and VW95. It's there if you look close, but not well defined. The JVC's in general have a well defined pixel structure, especially if you get one with a good lens.

HC5 - Camera is ~ 5" from the screen.

mits-vs-jvc.jpg

JVC X35

mits-vs-jvc1.jpg

HC5

mits-vs-jvc2.jpg

JVC X35

mits-vs-jvc3.jpg

The JVC appears to be more naturally sharp than the Mitsubishi sitting 14 feet from my 142" 16:9. The difference should be less with a smaller screen.

The JVC LCOS panel is closest in appearance to a single panel DLP vs. SXRD or LCD.

This is a good read on inter-pixel contrast and it's influence on perceived sharpness. it looks like JVC made it's first big step with the RS35.

http://www.videovantage.com/?p=819

I was so used to the JVC pixel structure the HC5 looks soft to me up close, even though my hc5 has better convergence than my rs10 did. The Darbee does not seem to have as much affect on the hc5 as it did with my jvc and may be it needs a more vivid pixel structure to do its thing? But with a good source the HC5 has much more depth, and clarity in motion and was exactly what I was hoping for. My initial budget and target was for a 4810 as I still think e-shift would be beneficial on my 133" screen and first row about 10.5' from screen. But the red stripe was really starting to grow faster on the 10 and the great price of the hc5 allows me to rent it for a few years and then see where the market is.
post #4304 of 8048
Thread Starter 
i watched some of the Imax scenes in the Dark Knight Rises on the HC5 and X35 last night. The X35 is very close to R709.

One of the main differences between a direct A/B is the skin tones look a little sun-burned on the HC5, it feels like I want to turn it down a notch or 2. In comparison, the JVC colors looked 'muted' but I know they are right.

I didn't get a chance to run the 125 pt autocal, but I think it's going to nail the color gamut since it's only over-saturated and the luminance is generally correct.
post #4305 of 8048
Zombie

Attempted to take pictures with Nikon cool pix L810. I used the original Spears & Munsil calibration disc. I was not able to see the green to the left and red to the right of the small 100% ire test field. When I shot actual black and white movie material it looked blue and was not representative of what I was actual seeing. I used a long exposure. The exposure I used was what would be used shooting fireworks at night. The pictures were clear but not accurate in color or gray scale. What I actually see is light green to left and red to right of the full screen. People centered in middle of screen toward left have a slight blue teal color to their face. This color slightly changes with varying scenes. The convergence is outstanding as is the sharpness and evenness of the focus of the lens. On one white test pattern that flashes numbered bars for adjusting contrast I froze the bar in the middle of the flash so I would be looking at a total white field that fills the entire screen area. Varying the contrast and brightness changes the test pattern where it looks more pure and makes the actual video material look better. Could it be the bulb?
post #4306 of 8048
Jason, you showed some very good illustrations in the differences in the visibility of the pixel grid. At shortest throw even on a JVC projector, particularly if you are using lens shift too, you are likely to get something resembling the softer picture at the edges of the screen and just like you showed at the centre. If you use mid-long throw, then the image is much more linear across the frame. It is one of the downsides to short throw, albeit you gain on brightness.

What I was curious though, is how sure are you that the pixel grid clarity is the reason for the JVC looking sharper than the other when seated? Obviously from that distance the pixel grid is invisible for both projectors, but does the brain still see the JVC as sharper for that reason?
Edited by JonStatt - 6/17/13 at 9:18am
post #4307 of 8048
Zombie, when will we hear the rest of comparison?
post #4308 of 8048
I just got some GoldenEar Triton Two towers and I need to do a home theater room makeover. My room is dark now, but I'm starting from scratch. I forget the name of the fabric you used, Jason, to darken your room. Could you remind me and perhaps provide a link to where you got your material?
post #4309 of 8048
Pretty sure its the ProtoStar black floc material.

http://www.protostar.biz/flockboard.htm
post #4310 of 8048
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I just got some GoldenEar Triton Two towers and I need to do a home theater room makeover. My room is dark now, but I'm starting from scratch. I forget the name of the fabric you used, Jason, to darken your room. Could you remind me and perhaps provide a link to where you got your material?

http://www.protostar.biz/hitack.htm

FPR-03
Hi-tack flocked light trap material "bulk roll"; self-adhesive (30" width x 500" length roll)
$195.00

you can get a shorter roll if needed. I bought a ton of this stuff. I'm using it now to cut down on some reflections on these Sharp G20 3D glasses.

How has the mediator been treating you? I've been thrilled with it so far. I converted the majority of my 3D BD's to the MVC MKV format and it handles them with authority.
post #4311 of 8048
Thanks. Yes, I like the Mede8er, too. I haven't converted my 3D titles to MKV yet, but I intend to when I get the time.
post #4312 of 8048
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

http://www.protostar.biz/hitack.htm

FPR-03
Hi-tack flocked light trap material "bulk roll"; self-adhesive (30" width x 500" length roll)
$195.00

you can get a shorter roll if needed. I bought a ton of this stuff. I'm using it now to cut down on some reflections on these Sharp G20 3D glasses.

How has the mediator been treating you? I've been thrilled with it so far. I converted the majority of my 3D BD's to the MVC MKV format and it handles them with authority.

Are your 3D BD in MKV frame pack?
post #4313 of 8048
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Are your 3D BD in MKV frame pack?

yes, that's the best part of the MVC format. it's the full, un-compressed frame packed stream with no modifications to the PQ. It's also capable of full HD audio as well.

Basically it's everything I care about in the 3D movie. The extras and boring menus can stay on the disk for the rare, occasional viewing.

The MKV's are still quite large, I'm basically just cutting out the menus, extras + secondary audio tracks I won't use. The impressive part is how the mediator handles these MVC 3D MKV files. I can scrub high speed through the timeline and it doesn't miss a beat.

I don't think too many of the current media devices can handle this format.

make_mkv.jpg
post #4314 of 8048
You just need to be careful when using MakeMKV (or MKVtoolnix) with 2D and 3D Blu-rays that are split over multiple M2TS files. These are typically movies that have alternate endings or ones that are 2in1 Blu-rays with a theatrical and extended cut included, though not always. MakeMKV and others like it will not compensate for audio gaps that will be present when merging the files. I'd only trust eac3to for such blu-rays. Another example would be when I merged LOTR and The Hobbit together from both discs into a single matroska file for each movie. There would have been an audio gap which creates an A/V sync issue. The more files the movie is split over the larger the audio gaps becomes as you progress through the movie. For movies with single main movie M2TS file this program is fine. Always check before using these programs.
post #4315 of 8048
Thread Starter 
I only use it for my 3D blurays, but don't think I've run into this issue yet with the titles i've converted so far.
post #4316 of 8048
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

yes, that's the best part of the MVC format. it's the full, un-compressed frame packed stream with no modifications to the PQ. It's also capable of full HD audio as well.

Basically it's everything I care about in the 3D movie. The extras and boring menus can stay on the disk for the rare, occasional viewing.

The MKV's are still quite large, I'm basically just cutting out the menus, extras + secondary audio tracks I won't use. The impressive part is how the mediator handles these MVC 3D MKV files. I can scrub high speed through the timeline and it doesn't miss a beat.

I don't think too many of the current media devices can handle this format.

make_mkv.jpg

I been using anydvd for my 2D BD as ISO, which is great and something you recommended for me. I'm going to have to use this program my 3D BD
post #4317 of 8048
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

yes, that's the best part of the MVC format. it's the full, un-compressed frame packed stream with no modifications to the PQ. It's also capable of full HD audio as well.

Basically it's everything I care about in the 3D movie. The extras and boring menus can stay on the disk for the rare, occasional viewing.

The MKV's are still quite large, I'm basically just cutting out the menus, extras + secondary audio tracks I won't use. The impressive part is how the mediator handles these MVC 3D MKV files. I can scrub high speed through the timeline and it doesn't miss a beat.

I don't think too many of the current media devices can handle this format.

make_mkv.jpg

I was curious why you do not have the "Subtitles English (forced only)" box checked? Won't that fix (for example) the forced subtitles in Avatar?

I have a Mede8er and have ripped all my 3D-BD's to ISO using AnyDVD HD. I was going to use MakeMKV to convert to MKV MVC for Avatar, so that I can see the subtitles when they are speaking Navi. I would also use it for any other titles I may have that have forced subtitles, or if the Mede8er cannot play the ISO due to seamless branching.

Thanks.

Mark
post #4318 of 8048
Thread Starter 
Mark, Hi, I haven't tried it yet with Avatar but will give it a shot to see how it works with the subtitles.

For the most part, I generally keep the titles in ISO format unless it has seamless branching like 'Wreck it Ralph'. This movie converted over perfect with MakeMKV.

I'm still running an older firmware from March/April, I haven't looked to see if they fixed anything new. This media device is so much better than my previous Himedia 900 / Micca 950. I had a PCH A110 and C200 for years, but passed on PCH400. On launch, they had some serious bugs. not sure how well it's doing these days.
post #4319 of 8048
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Mark, Hi, I haven't tried it yet with Avatar but will give it a shot to see how it works with the subtitles.

For the most part, I generally keep the titles in ISO format unless it has seamless branching like 'Wreck it Ralph'. This movie converted over perfect with MakeMKV.

I'm still running an older firmware from March/April, I haven't looked to see if they fixed anything new. This media device is so much better than my previous Himedia 900 / Micca 950. I had a PCH A110 and C200 for years, but passed on PCH400. On launch, they had some serious bugs. not sure how well it's doing these days.

I also have Wreck-it Ralph, and ripped it to ISO, but have not tried to play it yet. I just ripped all my 3D BD's over the weekend, and figured I would deal with the titles which need to be converted later. How did you determine that "Ralph" had seamless branching? I am on firmware 2.00, so I will give it a shot as an ISO, but I think any seamless branching titles have to be converted to MKV MVC.

Mark
post #4320 of 8048
Thread Starter 
When watching the ISO, you'll find that it will skip quite a bit at certain chapter changes basically making it unwatchable.

The good news is MakeMVK does a great job at fixing this. I believe the majority of the Disney titles use the seamless branching.
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