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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 147

post #4381 of 8035
I've read a good deal of this thread and would love some input -

My use will be:

30% TV (including sports!)
30% streaming video (netflix, etc)
30% gaming (FPS online so low lag is a must)
10% blu-ray (I don't care about 3d)


At $1500 the W7000 seems like a great value for an overall projector, though I think the Sony is better in almost all areas. I would love the Sony but is it worth over double the cost?

Any other projector to seriously consider given the above?

Thanks everyone!
post #4382 of 8035
I'm picking up the Sony tomorrow. It won out across the board. The JVC sounds like it's better in 2D, but too much lag for gaming.

I was in between the two, if I really was a huge 3D guy, I may have gone with the BenQ W7000...but I'm not so the Sony is just the heavyweight in those categories I care about. I probably would have been satisfied with the BenQ, but honestly I got a great deal on a Sony+Paradigm+Dragonfly package so I'm buying it tomorrow! Also keep in mind the Sony comes with glasses and an extra lamp...that gets the price closer.

It also seemed silly to have amazing sound and the BenQ which is a bit of entry level; not to mention projecting it on a screen that cost half as much as the projector itself. I don't think I'll have any regrets.
Edited by mbuck - 7/2/13 at 9:33pm
post #4383 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Haha, stop, you're hurting Zombie

Well, this thread is taking a long time to conclude, 9 months and counting. Seven projectors.

I think the Epson is the better all around choice among the lot?
post #4384 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013guy View Post

Well, this thread is taking a long time to conclude, 9 months and counting. Seven projectors.

I think the Epson is the better all around choice among the lot?

I think the Sony HW50ES is the best "all-around" performer. Great for 2D blu-rays, some of the brightest for 3D with minimal ghosting for a non-DLP, cost of ownership is cheap, great for gaming (low input lag), whisper quiet, great motion for a non-DLP, amazing black level and contrast performance with the best DI out of the bunch, RC sharpening for those who like it, ect... the list goes on.
post #4385 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013guy View Post

Well, this thread is taking a long time to conclude, 9 months and counting. Seven projectors.

I think the Epson is the better all around choice among the lot?

tell us about the room you are using + screen choice / size. Each model has it's own unique strengths depending on the viewing habits and the room setup.
post #4386 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12 View Post

Zombie-I have been eagerly waiting for your full impressions on the hc5's 2d performance in comparison to the host of other units you have reviewed. Have I missed your review or is it still to come? Thanks.

i'll post the final info this weekend. if there's specific info you are looking for, let me know.
post #4387 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Does this projector use white flash or red flash for the DLP Link signal? If you run the RF via the VESA port, do you have to 'turn off' DLP Link? I would imagine so since the RF glasses can't filter the white or red flash.

do you see a noticeable difference in contrast between the DLP link and RF glasses?

A while back I did an experiment with the Acer 5360 using DLP Link and the Nvidia 3D vision IR setup. The contrast was noticeably better with the IR vs the DLP link. The white flash was definitely hurting the overall PQ as seen through the glasses.

DLP link

nvidia-dlp-5.jpg

IR

nvidia-dlp-1.jpg


This is one of the reasons the Sharp 30K 3D contrast looks so good compared to the W7000. The red flash is elevating the black floor even though the glasses can filter out the color.

I also noticed this problem with my little Acer. The DLP-link kills the contrast, while the Nvidia glasses (no DLP-link) provided a much better overall image. One of the reasons many didn't think the Acer had acceptable contrast was due to DLP-link. I'm living happily now with my 7500 and 6010 in my small screening room (80 inch HP screen -- no problem obtaining bright 3D) and the 9500 and 6020 n my 120" HP screen in my main theatre room.
Edited by Deja Vu - 7/5/13 at 12:06pm
post #4388 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

I've read a good deal of this thread and would love some input -

My use will be:

30% TV (including sports!)
30% streaming video (netflix, etc)
30% gaming (FPS online so low lag is a must)
10% blu-ray (I don't care about 3d)


At $1500 the W7000 seems like a great value for an overall projector, though I think the Sony is better in almost all areas. I would love the Sony but is it worth over double the cost?

Any other projector to seriously consider given the above?

Thanks everyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

tell us about the room you are using + screen choice / size. Each model has it's own unique strengths depending on the viewing habits and the room setup.

I know it wasn't directed at me, but the room is 20x12. The projector will be on the 12' wall, but due to a bathroom and hallway on that side of the room the wall is only 10'. So 110" is the max I can go.

Seating will not be the full 20 feet away though bc there will be bookshelves at the back of the room, then some space then the seating. So about 15' viewing distance.

I am considering either 110" Carada BW if I go with the Epson or Sony or maybe even the Panasonic. On the other hand if I go with the W7000, I may get the Elite Cinegray.

I'm all over the place and opinions would be welcome! Most frequent use will be TV watching and streaming video/movies, followed by gaming and blu ray. Minimal 3d, if any.
post #4389 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post


I know it wasn't directed at me, but the room is 20x12. The projector will be on the 12' wall, but due to a bathroom and hallway on that side of the room the wall is only 10'. So 110" is the max I can go.

Seating will not be the full 20 feet away though bc there will be bookshelves at the back of the room, then some space then the seating. So about 15' viewing distance.

I am considering either 110" Carada BW if I go with the Epson or Sony or maybe even the Panasonic. On the other hand if I go with the W7000, I may get the Elite Cinegray.

I'm all over the place and opinions would be welcome! Most frequent use will be TV watching and streaming video/movies, followed by gaming and blu ray. Minimal 3d, if any.

it sounds like you're going to be using this projector a good amount. The HW50 is a good fit here because the lamps are quite cheap to replace compared to some of the other companies. Also I believe you still get an extra lamp when you buy one, so that price + glasses has to be factored in when purchasing. 3 year warranty vs. 1 year, etc.

The other choice if you want to save a bit is the JVC RS46. It has 2D PQ that is hard to beat for this price point. The lag time is slower than the Sony, so if you are a serious gamer, the Sony would make more sense.

If you can control the lighting in the room, you'll appreciate the extra contrast of the HW50 and especially the JVC vs. the BQ W7000. I used mine mainly for daytime TV and 3D. 2D movies always went to the JVC.
post #4390 of 8035
I know this has been beaten to death, but here's an interesting comment by Tom Norton re the HP 2.4 gain screen.

"But if you can sacrifice a bit on off-axis brightness and accept a bit of color inaccuracy (the latter much less obvious than the former), 3D on the High Power will knock you out."
post #4391 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Mitsubishi DLP's often have white level uniformity problems, most of them do (but each sample varies), but it's not the same problem as LCD exactly (even though it looks like it). I've owned a few, the white uniformity problem becomes less noticeable as the lamp ages. It is usually a RED or PINK imbalance that you see across the screen (sometimes green too). It reduces with lamp age much better than it does on an LCD (no idea why). This is a sample variance issue, some of the Mits DLP's have much less error than others. I've seen so many older Mits DLP's (2008-2010), because three people I know all owned them (including myself), and we set them up for a few people as well, and we did some exchanges to get better ones (which gave us even more exposure). The biggest problem with the Mits DLP's was the focus uniformity (I never owned an hc7800 or hc8000 though, just older little brother units). The disappointment was when you described the Mits DLP LENS to me, it sounded exactly like the Mits hc4000 LENS. Still, the projector was sharp from seating distance as long as you do not focus it from the center (this is definitely a projector that needs focusing 1/3rd to 1/4th out from the center). It didn't completely get rid of the focus error, but it makes it more negligible. It's a shame because the image is very sharp, they just never could get the focus perfect like Benq's are. The white level uniformity error isn't the worst problem IMO, it just looks really more significant on a new lamp.

I know theoretically lamp age shouldn't affect color uniformity as far as the balance (and doesn't as much on LCD's AFIK), but it did appear to on the Mits DLP's. I mean the lamp could affect the color that was off itself, but not the raw uniformity %, but I'm just saying I think even the raw uniformity % was affected on those DLP's possibly due to the amount of heat the lamp was producing at a given time.


I got it confirmed ages a go! that the mits 7800 was using the exact same lens as the HC4000, maybe its the same for the HC8000
post #4392 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Joe Kane was interviewed by AVS on the current topic of bringing widespread UHD content to the market.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAYWAjJm15s

this is a good video to watch, he provides insight on the barriers to entry, lack of current standards and what will happen to current owners of 4K sets that don't conform to the future standard.

from his conversation, it feels like at least a full year away until a standard is set and the CE manufacturers adopt the changes. then the studio's will finally jump on-board. For now, all we have is the limited content from Sony Studios on the Sony device.


Hopefully something major will change by CEDIA (standardize HDMI 2.0?). This 'one-off', limited range content that only works with certain TV's or Sony projectors will never allow 4K to take off. It was never going to be the red-ray device. It needs to be something common that all the manufacturers can take part of and make the studios feel safe at the same time.

If the X-box one and PS4 are stuck with HDMI 1.4, that will ensure it's neither of these devices. Maybe Sony will be smart in 2014 and re-release the PS4 with an updated HDMI chipset.

until then, continue to enjoy your crappy 1080P 8bit content. cool.gif
post #4393 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Does this projector use white flash or red flash for the DLP Link signal? If you run the RF via the VESA port, do you have to 'turn off' DLP Link? I would imagine so since the RF glasses can't filter the white or red flash.

do you see a noticeable difference in contrast between the DLP link and RF glasses?

A while back I did an experiment with the Acer 5360 using DLP Link and the Nvidia 3D vision IR setup. The contrast was noticeably better with the IR vs the DLP link. The white flash was definitely hurting the overall PQ as seen through the glasses.

DLP link

nvidia-dlp-5.jpg

IR

nvidia-dlp-1.jpg


This is one of the reasons the Sharp 30K 3D contrast looks so good compared to the W7000. The red flash is elevating the black floor even though the glasses can filter out the color.
That color cast is nowhere near as noticeable when the glasses are powered on, just as the double images become one. Maybe there IS a color cast/contrast downgrade with DLP Link flash, but it's going to take a glasses-on comparison to really prove it.
post #4394 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

it sounds like you're going to be using this projector a good amount. The HW50 is a good fit here because the lamps are quite cheap to replace compared to some of the other companies. Also I believe you still get an extra lamp when you buy one, so that price + glasses has to be factored in when purchasing. 3 year warranty vs. 1 year, etc.

The other choice if you want to save a bit is the JVC RS46. It has 2D PQ that is hard to beat for this price point. The lag time is slower than the Sony, so if you are a serious gamer, the Sony would make more sense.

If you can control the lighting in the room, you'll appreciate the extra contrast of the HW50 and especially the JVC vs. the BQ W7000. I used mine mainly for daytime TV and 3D. 2D movies always went to the JVC.

Thanks for your input. This is my first projector and I've been obsessing about this way too much!

I'm just trying to justify spending double the money on the Sony vs the BenQ when tons of people love the benq, and it seems to be better for TV watching. The worst part is the only one I've seen in person is the Epson frown.gif
post #4395 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

Thanks for your input. This is my first projector and I've been obsessing about this way too much!

I'm just trying to justify spending double the money on the Sony vs the BenQ when tons of people love the benq, and it seems to be better for TV watching. The worst part is the only one I've seen in person is the Epson frown.gif

I've had the W7000 for a while now, the primary strength is 3D. For 2D, the RBE is a bit much for me, I'm sensitive to rainbows although it's not as obvious in 3D mode. Also the contrast isn't in the same league as the HW50. For daytime TV (some ambient light viewing) this isn't a big deal, but the HW50 is going to be more convincing when it's time to turns the lights out watching your favorite bluray.

The low cost of the replacement lamp is a main benefit of the HW50, racking up the hours is no big deal since you get an extra lamp and the replacements are the cheapest of the current models.

I would still go for the HW50 in this case for a single projector solution.
post #4396 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post

That color cast is nowhere near as noticeable when the glasses are powered on, just as the double images become one. Maybe there IS a color cast/contrast downgrade with DLP Link flash, but it's going to take a glasses-on comparison to really prove it.

you're correct, a good set of DLP link glasses like the Optoma ZD-201 or the BenQ D3 will do a very good job of masking the white or red flash signal so it's not obvious to the eye. The problem is, it's still raising the absolute black floor of the projector, affecting contrast.

if we look at the Sharp 30K with the IR signal and the W7000 with DLP Link in a direct A/B, the difference in perceived contrast in 3D is striking. The most obvious is 3D content in scope format where you can easily see the black floor is affected in the black bars or with 3D content that has darker scenes (non-animations).

using a projector that has the option for both IR and DLP link (Acer 5360), just flipping between the 2 different glasses using the same content proves the DLP link signal is hurting contrast.

Optoma offers the option of the RF glasses, Sharp & Mitsubishi have the IR option. I'd like to see BenQ make a change this year with the upcoming W7500 model. These DLP's need all the help they can get trying to keep up with the contrast of their LCD/LCOS/SXRD counterparts. Raising the black floor with a DLP Link signal definitely doesn't help.
post #4397 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

using a projector that has the option for both IR and DLP link (Acer 5360), just flipping between the 2 different glasses using the same content proves the DLP link signal is hurting contrast.

I agree. I've done the same with the Acer and now have two pairs of DLP link glasses gathering dust.

For those interested here's a link to a discussion about positive and negative parallax. I didn't realize that it is the misuse of positive parallax that is likely to cause eye strain and headaches and not negative parallax (out into the room). I now understand why.

http://3dfilmtutorials.com/the-flip-flop-of-negative-and-positive-parallax
post #4398 of 8035
It's been a while I post on AVS. So here a small update of my home theater situation.

My last projector move was to sell my Sony HW50 to go back to the Sony VW95 because I was about to buy a second screen. (High Power, 2.35:1)

I really love my VW95 and use the lens memory with great success to switch from my 16x9 screen to my 2.35:1 one.

The Sony VW95 was not bright enough (for my taste) to light-up my older screen but thanks to the magic of the High Power, the image is bright and punchy. Thanks also the the VW95 great black and contrast, even with the High Power the black floor is good.

With that setup, I was very happy and in wait for the next projector season to upgrade to a 4k model.

But, this hobby is what it is, I decided to make a last test this year and buy from AVS a JVC RS4810 .tongue.gif

I know this projector have been review a lot but I am very curious to see the impact of the eshift on the picture by myself. I sit really close from my 133 inch screen so maybe I will find a benefit.. Also want to check if the black level of the JVC will be better than the VW95. Since I now use a High Power, every bit of improvement on the black floor is welcome.
post #4399 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I've had the W7000 for a while now, the primary strength is 3D. For 2D, the RBE is a bit much for me, I'm sensitive to rainbows although it's not as obvious in 3D mode. Also the contrast isn't in the same league as the HW50. For daytime TV (some ambient light viewing) this isn't a big deal, but the HW50 is going to be more convincing when it's time to turns the lights out watching your favorite bluray.

The low cost of the replacement lamp is a main benefit of the HW50, racking up the hours is no big deal since you get an extra lamp and the replacements are the cheapest of the current models.

I would still go for the HW50 in this case for a single projector solution.

Thanks for the input! Several people have mentioned that the sony bulb replacements are cheaper.

But when I look online they seem to be in line with the others?

The 5020 bulb is $300 and is free shipping from Epson.

The W7000 bulb as far as I can tell is about $250.

The Sony lamp is over $300.

Am I missing something?
post #4400 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

Thanks for the input! Several people have mentioned that the sony bulb replacements are cheaper.

But when I look online they seem to be in line with the others?

The 5020 bulb is $300 and is free shipping from Epson.

The W7000 bulb as far as I can tell is about $250.

The Sony lamp is over $300.

Am I missing something?

Last year, I was able to pick up the HW30/HW50 lamp for $225 street price, maybe the price went up. I would check with Mike or Craig @ AVS to be certain.
post #4401 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

It's been a while I post on AVS. So here a small update of my home theater situation.

My last projector move was to sell my Sony HW50 to go back to the Sony VW95 because I was about to buy a second screen. (High Power, 2.35:1)

I really love my VW95 and use the lens memory with great success to switch from my 16x9 screen to my 2.35:1 one.

The Sony VW95 was not bright enough (for my taste) to light-up my older screen but thanks to the magic of the High Power, the image is bright and punchy. Thanks also the the VW95 great black and contrast, even with the High Power the black floor is good.

With that setup, I was very happy and in wait for the next projector season to upgrade to a 4k model.

But, this hobby is what it is, I decided to make a last test this year and buy from AVS a JVC RS4810 .tongue.gif

I know this projector have been review a lot but I am very curious to see the impact of the eshift on the picture by myself. I sit really close from my 133 inch screen so maybe I will find a benefit.. Also want to check if the black level of the JVC will be better than the VW95. Since I now use a High Power, every bit of improvement on the black floor is welcome.

Rick, hi we haven't seen you in a while. Let us know what you think of the 4810 when you get it setup. I sit ~ 14feet from my 142" HP and definitely appreciate the e-shift on the RS55. JVC changed it a bit this year, but you'd only be able to see the difference between a direct A/B between the 1st and 2nd gen e-shift. I have a slight preference for the first version.

you should be able to crank the iris down a fair amount with the HP screen.

Another projector change should hold you tight until the next 6 months when the new toys come out. biggrin.gif
post #4402 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

It's been a while I post on AVS. So here a small update of my home theater situation.

My last projector move was to sell my Sony HW50 to go back to the Sony VW95 because I was about to buy a second screen. (High Power, 2.35:1)

I really love my VW95 and use the lens memory with great success to switch from my 16x9 screen to my 2.35:1 one.

The Sony VW95 was not bright enough (for my taste) to light-up my older screen but thanks to the magic of the High Power, the image is bright and punchy. Thanks also the the VW95 great black and contrast, even with the High Power the black floor is good.

With that setup, I was very happy and in wait for the next projector season to upgrade to a 4k model.

But, this hobby is what it is, I decided to make a last test this year and buy from AVS a JVC RS4810 .tongue.gif

I know this projector have been review a lot but I am very curious to see the impact of the eshift on the picture by myself. I sit really close from my 133 inch screen so maybe I will find a benefit.. Also want to check if the black level of the JVC will be better than the VW95. Since I now use a High Power, every bit of improvement on the black floor is welcome.

Rick, hi we haven't seen you in a while. Let us know what you think of the 4810 when you get it setup. I sit ~ 14feet from my 142" HP and definitely appreciate the e-shift on the RS55. JVC changed it a bit this year, but you'd only be able to see the difference between a direct A/B between the 1st and 2nd gen e-shift. I have a slight preference for the first version.

you should be able to crank the iris down a fair amount with the HP screen.

Another projector change should hold you tight until the next 6 months when the new toys come out. biggrin.gif

Hi Zombie, I hope I will be able to hold six months after this one wink.gif

I will report back on my 4810 experience and also do a comparison against my Sony VW95.

The only thing I am not sure is if I will test the 3D. I have not buy the RF emitter nor the 3D glasses yet.

I have the MonsterVision RF glasses but pretty sure that would not be compatible with the JVC.

If there a JVC user here that dont use is RF emitter and 3D glasses, I am willing to buy, just PM me.
post #4403 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Rick, the MV3D's will work with the JVC. Do you have the full kit that includes the 3 PIN VESA connector for the transmitter?
post #4404 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Rick, the MV3D's will work with the JVC. Do you have the full kit that includes the 3 PIN VESA connector for the transmitter?

That would be great.

I am not sure about the 3 pin connector, I will look for that at home.

Thanks for the info.
post #4405 of 8035
Personally, I was ready to shell out cash for the Sony HW50... then I demo's it, and couldn't stand the lack of sharpness. The RC is cool trickery, but introduces artifacts. If it had good native sharpness, I would had bought it on the spot. me? Still looking!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I think the Sony HW50ES is the best "all-around" performer. Great for 2D blu-rays, some of the brightest for 3D with minimal ghosting for a non-DLP, cost of ownership is cheap, great for gaming (low input lag), whisper quiet, great motion for a non-DLP, amazing black level and contrast performance with the best DI out of the bunch, RC sharpening for those who like it, ect... the list goes on.
post #4406 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

Personally, I was ready to shell out cash for the Sony HW50... then I demo's it, and couldn't stand the lack of sharpness. The RC is cool trickery, but introduces artifacts. If it had good native sharpness, I would had bought it on the spot. me? Still looking!
Yeah, sharpness was the main show-stopper for me too (although my judgement was based on pictures posted here only). Also, HC9000/HC5 has much better native contrast so... I went for it. And I'm not disappointed.

For viewing on normal displays


For viewing on HC5 (probably looks undersaturated on non-wide-gamut displays) biggrin.gif

Edited by Elix - 7/6/13 at 2:46pm
post #4407 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Rick, the MV3D's will work with the JVC. Do you have the full kit that includes the 3 PIN VESA connector for the transmitter?

Last night I found the 3 PIN cable (in my big cable box wink.gif)

So I will be able to test the 3D on the 4810 I just received this afternoon. smile.gif
post #4408 of 8035
Thanks for everyone's help so far.

My last decision will be between the Epson 5020 and the Sony HW50. My usage was posted above, but once again for posterity:
30% TV (including sports!)
30% streaming video (netflix, etc)
30% gaming (FPS online so low lag is a must)
10% blu-ray (I don't care about 3d)

I know the 5020 has slightly higher lag. But it also has torch mode, which I have seen in person and looks like a TV even with ambient lights (on a firehawk).

Sony has better motion handling afaik, and more of a cinematic look. Not as bright, but very reasonable lag.

It will be 110" screen. I'm thinking the extra brightness from the 5020 won't be a big deal since on Sony's bright mode its over 1100 lumens which should be plenty, right?

The price difference will be (discounting for bulb with the sony) about $600. I'm leaning towards the sony due to SXRD.

Other than brightness and cost, any reason to consider the Epson over the Sony?
post #4409 of 8035
I took the Epson off the list due to the higher lag, w FPS and online that was a deal breaker.
post #4410 of 8035
Yeah that was it for me too.

I just ordered the projector with Mike here. He's been great in answering questions and helping me out. It's expected to arrive by the end of the month, I hope! That gives me time to set up the rest of the room at least and have everything ready to go.
Edited by baloo_btru - 7/9/13 at 3:22pm
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