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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 149

post #4441 of 8058
Zombie, thanks for clarifying which models are affected, that helps. What are the differences between the RS45 AND RS46?Z? John
post #4442 of 8058
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post

Zombie, thanks for clarifying which models are affected, that helps. What are the differences between the RS45 AND RS46?Z? John

the main difference is there is a newer designed lamp in the RS46 that should be improved over the previous design in the RS40/RS45. Also the 3D is improved, but you mentioned that isn't a specific consideration.

The color space on the RS46 is also very good considering it doesn't have a CMS built in. It only requires minor gray scale and gamma tweaks for an excellent D65/R709 calibration.

You will likely be impressed going from the RS10 to the RS45/RS46. Sharpness and overall PQ has improved over the last few years.
post #4443 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

(Mitsubishi HC5 coming soon)
I remembered a meme... biggrin.gif

Now - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - SOON - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - End of Time
Edited by Elix - 7/18/13 at 6:24am
post #4444 of 8058
Why was the panasonic ae8000 left out of this comparison?

I was originally wanting the Epson 5020 but am leaning towards the panasonic now because of lag issues. From the Epson/Panasonic comparison it seems like the Panasonic has the best of both worlds for me, especially in a controlled light room where the Epson's brightness advantage won't mean as much.
post #4445 of 8058
Because many of us (including him) are not a fan of all the Panny's other issues --- poor white-level uniformity, less sharp image, lesser warranty (and Panasonic is harder to deal with), lamp flickering issues, and more ghosting than the Epson in 3D. All that said, it's an ok projector if you are not a videophile or are very forgiving of those lesser traits. I personally do not like Panasonics in HTPC or gaming so much, small text can at times be very annoying, though just like anything else, you can get lucky and get a sharper unit.

Can you fit (2) projectors in your setup?

Honestly, if it were me, I would actually prefer the MUCH MUCH cheaper Benq w1070 over the Panny 8000 except for dark movies. I know people think this is crazy and the two projectors are in a different class (yes I know), but the truth is the w1070 has better sharpness, better white uniformity, and a more fluid looking image. Your best bet might be to get a refurb Epson 5010 (though you really really gotta watch out for convergence on Epson refurbs, luck of draw), and then buy a low-cost DLP for gaming that has low lag. Actually if I were getting two projectors, I would prefer a JVC B-STOCK (rs-45 or RS-46 when they come available) refurb and a Benq w1070 or Optoma hd25. Use the JVC for movies, and the Benq or Optoma for gaming and 3D.

Otherwise, if two projectors is completely out of the picture, then I am thinking the Sharp xvz-30000, only problem is I forgot if that PJ is a LOW LAG or HIGH LAG projector ( check the forums or maybe Zombie will re-iterate his lag testing results).
Edited by coderguy - 7/18/13 at 8:04am
post #4446 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Sharp 30K lag times - you guys better appreciate this, it's a pain lugging out the old CRT monitor.

The pool table makes an excellent host for 20TB file servers, projectors, HTPC's, etc.

sharp30k-lag2.jpg

A series of 50, 70 and 80 MS measurements in 'game' mode. Basically the same as the other models in the shoot-out thread. Only Sony HW50 stands out here @ 30ms.

sharp30k-lag.jpg

sharp30k-lag1.jpg

From the other thread.
post #4447 of 8058
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coberling View Post

Why was the panasonic ae8000 left out of this comparison?

I was originally wanting the Epson 5020 but am leaning towards the panasonic now because of lag issues. From the Epson/Panasonic comparison it seems like the Panasonic has the best of both worlds for me, especially in a controlled light room where the Epson's brightness advantage won't mean as much.

Hi, it wasn't left out, there was a deep dive on the Panasonic 8000 in the thread about 2 months ago.

I'll give you a quick executive summary and jump right to the end, it was one of my last picks for all the projectors in the shootout.

My primary concern is the color uniformity issues. It was throwing off my calibration meter just moving it a few inches in either direction. LCD projectors have this issue by nature (Epson 5020 to a lesser degree) but the 2 8000's I saw had it bad enough where I could see it in real content. Other reviewers have reported on this issue as well.

Sharpness was not impressive on my 142", I personally don't like the smooth screen effect. Color needed a major calibration out of the box. 3D was average in general (perceived brightness / crosstalk), definitely not as good as the Epson 5020.

Contrast was on the average side, especially compared to the 5020 and way off from the JVC RS46.

Overall I would have a hard time picking this model for any specific feature when the Epson 5020 and the JVC RS46 are basically the same price.

If gaming is a concern, another ~$700 from the 8000 price will get you into the Sony HW50 which has the best lag time response of all the projectors in the shootout. imo, the HW50 is a much better projector than the 8000.
post #4448 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

the 1x2 model I have passes HD audio,. If it passed 3D, it will pass HD as well. it's cheap enough to give it a try.
the 1x4 version switch will pass 3d so far which will work fine for me but it does dumm down audio to. 2.0 pcm. Thanks for recommendation of switch
post #4449 of 8058
Damn.... I might have to put a bigger dent in my savings and go for the HW50 now..... the more I hear from experts the poorer I get!
post #4450 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by coberling View Post

Damn.... I might have to put a bigger dent in my savings and go for the HW50 now..... the more I hear from experts the poorer I get!

Perfectly stated. That is why I came here, for the advice, and that is why my wife hates me.... Though she appreciates it when we watch a movie. wink.gif
post #4451 of 8058
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coberling View Post

Damn.... I might have to put a bigger dent in my savings and go for the HW50 now..... the more I hear from experts the poorer I get!

The extra $$ will be long forgotten vs. regret on the mistake of the wrong purchase. check w/ AVS on HW50 pricing. It comes with an extra lamp which helps justify some of the extra cost.

good luck, let us know how you make out.
post #4452 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The extra $$ will be long forgotten vs. regret on the mistake of the wrong purchase. check w/ AVS on HW50 pricing. It comes with an extra lamp which helps justify some of the extra cost.

good luck, let us know how you make out.

agreed completely. there's been many times when 4 months later i'm sitting on 500bux that I wish I could trade in for the upgrade. there's certainly been times where I've 'over spent' and over bought, but it's funny how in those situations I don't think about it and regret it everytime I use it.
post #4453 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Hi, it wasn't left out, there was a deep dive on the Panasonic 8000 in the thread about 2 months ago.

I'll give you a quick executive summary and jump right to the end, it was one of my last picks for all the projectors in the shootout.

My primary concern is the color uniformity issues. It was throwing off my calibration meter just moving it a few inches in either direction. LCD projectors have this issue by nature (Epson 5020 to a lesser degree) but the 2 8000's I saw had it bad enough where I could see it in real content. Other reviewers have reported on this issue as well.

Sharpness was not impressive on my 142", I personally don't like the smooth screen effect. Color needed a major calibration out of the box. 3D was average in general (perceived brightness / crosstalk), definitely not as good as the Epson 5020.

Contrast was on the average side, especially compared to the 5020 and way off from the JVC RS46.

Overall I would have a hard time picking this model for any specific feature when the Epson 5020 and the JVC RS46 are basically the same price.

If gaming is a concern, another ~$700 from the 8000 price will get you into the Sony HW50 which has the best lag time response of all the projectors in the shootout. imo, the HW50 is a much better projector than the 8000.

Not flattering of the 8000 at all. The 8000 is now $2350 after rebate with the warranty extended to 3 years/3000 hours. I can't find an HW50 for any less than $3999, waiting to hear back from AVS. Given the price difference I went tith the 8000, not yet delivered, over the 5020 primarily because of the lens memory and power zoom. Honestly CIH is not THAT important but a few hundrew cheaper than the 5020 plus the ability to do CIH seemed like a plus. The projector is used 70% gaming, 20% sports, 10% movies, with very little interest in 3D. Sadly, the color of the casing is a factor and I dont want to spent the extra money to get the 6020. That leaves me with a decision between the 5020, 8000, and rs45 bstock all at $2500. I'd originally factored out the JVC due to the light output, need the ability to watch with all lights on in the basement for football games. Given my circumstances and budget, up to ~$2600 what would you recommend?
post #4454 of 8058
I don't know where you're getting prices from, but a lot of the ones you've said seem too high. The HW50ES streets for around $3200, b-stock/refurbished RS45s can be found for $1725 (JVC Pro store on ebay were selling them for that price last week) and I haven't been looking at 5020 prices but don't think for a second Epson won't price match the 8000 as it's the only 3LCD competition it has.
post #4455 of 8058
Projectorpeople and Nebraska Furniture Mart both have the HW50 at $3999
I could call Epson I suppose to see what they can do. The 8000 is 2549 minus $200 rebate and 2 pair of glasses and 3 yr warranty.
post #4456 of 8058
You'll be surprised what AVScience quotes you for it then.
post #4457 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy* View Post

Projectorpeople and Nebraska Furniture Mart both have the HW50 at $3999
I could call Epson I suppose to see what they can do. The 8000 is 2549 minus $200 rebate and 2 pair of glasses and 3 yr warranty.

See my PM.
post #4458 of 8058
Thread Starter 
we tried to help. that extra $600 to the Hw50 would have gone a long way....
post #4459 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy* View Post

Projectorpeople and Nebraska Furniture Mart both have the HW50 at $3999
I could call Epson I suppose to see what they can do. The 8000 is 2549 minus $200 rebate and 2 pair of glasses and 3 yr warranty.

I echo the HW50 pricing. I had a great price from projector people, but Sony clamped down on their discount before I ordered. AVS has a good price but nothing in stock for at least 2 weeks. Anyone find a discount price with in stock units?

That all being said, I'm still going for the 50. The Panny seems to be a lesser option and I will never buy from Epson again. Lamps blew before 1000k on Eco and then I got the "pink band of death". Avoid.
post #4460 of 8058
With that last post being written, does anyone have a good deal or provider for a good deal on a hw50?

Does anyone have an opinion on refurbished projectors? I haven't really considered it until now that I'm leaning towards a projector slightly out of my budget.
post #4461 of 8058
I'm on my second lamp with the Epson 6010 and it still looks great. Luck of the draw, I suppose, but I'll take it. smile.gif
post #4462 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

we tried to help. that extra $600 to the Hw50 would have gone a long way....

Things are still at the point I can cancel the order if I decide to. I sent avs a pm waiting to hear back from them on the hw50 vs rs46.
Edit...got pm back. Now just have to decide if I can justify the extra cost. I was completely satisfied with my old 8350 so I know I will be happy either way.
Edited by Conspiracy* - 7/18/13 at 9:22pm
post #4463 of 8058
Hi everybody!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy* View Post

I'd originally factored out the JVC due to the light output, need the ability to watch with all lights on in the basement for football games. Given my circumstances and budget, up to ~$2600 what would you recommend?

That's why I went with a 5020. (I ended up being upgraded to a 6020 by Epson because I had a string of bad units.) I have a 138" screen, and when I run Dynamic mode with lots of lights on the picture looks great for sports. Even my white screen looks fine with 40 ftl. Football never looked so good. Epson customer service is outstanding, but their QC is so-so right now. If they could tighten up the QC the 5020 would be a no-brainer for a lot of people. But as it's not so good, well... All of that said I've been very happy with the 6020. Test patterns can look a little scary, but actual movies look great from my seating distance. (12')

I just got a Lumagen XS-3D, and wow that 125 point calibration makes a big difference! I can actually get a more color correct picture with Dynamic mode than I can with THX. Just a little bit better color wise, but twice as bright. I think contrast may have taken a hit compared to THX though. (Realistically, the eye can't see the difference in color between the modes anymore.) I haven't tried the 125 point cal with my "Light Power Edition" filter yet, that'll come next. Perhaps it will allow Dynamic to keep the contrast up. Living Room mode is not quite as accurate, as THX or Dynamic, (But it is close, the difference is probably not noticeable to the eye. ) But I think it held the contrast... I have no way of accurately measuring actual contrast ratios, so this is just an opinion right now. But color is now nothing short of outstanding. Flesh tones, sky's, everything is just perfect. Living Room mode in ECO lamp gives me 19 ftl and probably better color than any sub 10,000 PJ lacking the 125 point cal. So yeah, color me happy with the Epson and Lumagen combo.

If you need lots of lumens, the 5020 deserves a look. If you don't, I think I'd be looking very closely at a JVC... I'd get a cheaper model with no CMS, and use the extra to get a Lumagen and a Darbee, or a Lumagen with Darbee built in. Just my humble opinion. smile.gif

BTW, This guy is selling a stack of XS-3D units apparently: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lumagen-Radiance-XS-3DTM-Video-Processor-Scaler-/171069237055?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d485673f I got mine from him and the quality is perfect. I don't know him and can't vouch that all of his units are good, but mine is. just over a year old. The last auction ended at under $1000.

I want to give a big shout out to Lumagen for their customer service. I live not too far from their office, so I brought my used XS-3D in to them. They tested it out, told me when it was built, put new feet on it, gave me a new serial cable and box, updated the firmware, and gave me all sorts of pointers and help. All free of charge. Wow. Best customer service ever.
post #4464 of 8058
Taken from the review http://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc/dla-x35/image.php:
"Mitsubishi HC9000D (uses Sony LCoS panels): Similar in blacks to the Sony VW95ES above, it has better overall black level performance on dark scenes than the JVC."

Wow, talk about wrong. Don't you agree, Zombie?
post #4465 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I'm on my second lamp with the Epson 6010 and it still looks great. Luck of the draw, I suppose, but I'll take it. smile.gif

I have four Epsons ((7500, 9500, 6010 and 6020) that I'm currently using on a regular basis -- no problems yet (touch wood).
post #4466 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I have four Epsons ((7500, 9500, 6010 and 6020) that I'm currently using on a regular basis -- no problems yet (touch wood).

You're not a hobbyist, you are a collector. smile.gif You are worse than me. Only have three that are used fairly regular.
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post #4467 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

You're not a hobbyist, you are a collector. smile.gif You are worse than me. Only have three that are used fairly regular.

Welcome to the club! You can never have too many projectors.
post #4468 of 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Welcome to the club! You can never have too many projectors.

Unless you are like me, who gets called up by work and might have to suddenly hop across the country again for the next 12 months (ouch).
I may sell what I have and grab the Optoma hd25 for portability, or just keep the w7000. I think I am going to have to either sell the JVC or store it, but won't know for sure until December.
At least I will be near the mountains this time and not in the South-East, where there are more mosquitos than there are people.
post #4469 of 8058
I got mine locally for $3500, but I was also buying a screen and speakers...but got those at a discount too. Paradigm+Dragonfly+Sony=$5200
post #4470 of 8058
They are 3200, try google search...
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