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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 150

post #4471 of 8035
I have owned 21 Epson projectors. The problem is if you use the projector to watch everything on a daily basis they simply will not hold up. Sure if you own multiple projectors they should last longer you are not putting the hours on them. But I assure you Epson's quality control is not anywhere as good as the Sony. Also the Sony looks outstanding out of the box. Sony lost a large percent of the projector, television percent of the market. Sony wants that market back. Sony actually repairs a broken product, Epson sends you a refurbished unit that may not have the problem of the one you sent in but the refurbished units always has additional problems your unit did not have.
If this is your first projector save yourself alot of grief. Again if you are a casual user the Epson is fine but if it is to be your sole video source the VPL-HW50ES is a much better class projector.
post #4472 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The extra $$ will be long forgotten vs. regret on the mistake of the wrong purchase. check w/ AVS on HW50 pricing. It comes with an extra lamp which helps justify some of the extra cost.

good luck, let us know how you make out.


Would you rate the HW50 as the top pick at or around the $3000.00 mark? My fiancé just came into a small financial windfall, and has offered to up my replacement projector budget by $1000.00. This would put me in position to afford the Sony.


John
post #4473 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post

Would you rate the HW50 as the top pick at or around the $3000.00 mark? My fiancé just came into a small financial windfall, and has offered to up my replacement projector budget by $1000.00. This would put me in position to afford the Sony.


John

Sent you a PM. smile.gif
Reply
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post #4474 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The extra $$ will be long forgotten vs. regret on the mistake of the wrong purchase. check w/ AVS on HW50 pricing. It comes with an extra lamp which helps justify some of the extra cost.

good luck, let us know how you make out.


Would you rate the HW50 as the top pick at or around the $3000.00 mark? My fiancé just came into a small financial windfall, and has offered to up my replacement projector budget by $1000.00. This would put me in position to afford the Sony.


John

 

Sounds like your fiancée is a keeper! wink.gif

post #4475 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post

Would you rate the HW50 as the top pick at or around the $3000.00 mark? My fiancé just came into a small financial windfall, and has offered to up my replacement projector budget by $1000.00. This would put me in position to afford the Sony.


John

yes if gaming / 3D are a priority, otherwise you can save a bit and go with the RS46 which is cheaper and has one of the best 2D PQ in this price category + best in class contrast.
post #4476 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Taken from the review http://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc/dla-x35/image.php:
"Mitsubishi HC9000D (uses Sony LCoS panels): Similar in blacks to the Sony VW95ES above, it has better overall black level performance on dark scenes than the JVC."

Wow, talk about wrong. Don't you agree, Zombie?

imo, the only realistic way to compare this is with both projectors in a direct A/B stack while equalizing the output and also running a similar gamma calibration. This is easy to do with the manual iris on both models.

The JVC has the advantage here on every projector I've seen under 10K, including the VW95 and HC5. Both which are very good. There's time I wish the black floor was even lower on the JVC since i watch a lot of content with low APL scenes.

I'm off to watch a rare Japanese release of Terminator 2, supposedly one of the best releases with less DNR than the Skynet version.
post #4477 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

yes if gaming / 3D are a priority, otherwise you can save a bit and go with the RS46 which is cheaper and has one of the best 2D PQ in this price category + best in class contrast.


Gaming isn't in the cards, and 3d isn't very important. I would be using the projector equally for movies and favorite television shows. One of the major reviews felt the JVC was also outstanding for movies, but just so-so for television. Your thoughts?


John
post #4478 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post

Gaming isn't in the cards, and 3d isn't very important. I would be using the projector equally for movies and favorite television shows. One of the major reviews felt the JVC was also outstanding for movies, but just so-so for television. Your thoughts?


John

When you say tv, do you mean brightness or PQ? HDTV is going to be as good as the service. I watched a couple of shows and they looked really good
post #4479 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post

Gaming isn't in the cards, and 3d isn't very important. I would be using the projector equally for movies and favorite television shows. One of the major reviews felt the JVC was also outstanding for movies, but just so-so for television. Your thoughts?


John

I doubt that reviewer had Verizon FIOS.... smile.gif

The PQ is only going to look as good as the sources capabilities on any of these projectors. I recently watched the 2013 Grammy Awards recorded on my Media Center 7 + Ceton tuner + FIOS and it looked amazing on my 142" HP.
post #4480 of 8035
I watch HBO all the time on mine (RS46) with ATT Uverse. It looks beautiful.
post #4481 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I doubt that reviewer had Verizon FIOS.... smile.gif

The PQ is only going to look as good as the sources capabilities on any of these projectors. I recently watched the 2013 Grammy Awards recorded on my Media Center 7 + Ceton tuner + FIOS and it looked amazing on my 142" HP.

agreed. I don't watch much tv directly anymore because I have the worst service I can imagine(not true, but i'm so tired of the dumb 4:3 aspect ratio, and the fact nearly 100% of the content is shown in a widescreen format with black bars top and bottom, as if you can even buy 4:3 TV's anymore...)

anyway, I find watching cable fine on the jvc x35, certainly still better than my old Epson(not even close to the same class projector though). but when I watch downloaded/streamed HDTV, it looks just as good as movies.

so for me, saying it doesn't look good for tv viewing, is like hooking it up to a vcr and saying it doesn't do a good job of displaying movies made in the 80's...

feed it a good signal, it'll give you a good picture.
post #4482 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I doubt that reviewer had Verizon FIOS.... smile.gif

The PQ is only going to look as good as the sources capabilities on any of these projectors. I recently watched the 2013 Grammy Awards recorded on my Media Center 7 + Ceton tuner + FIOS and it looked amazing on my 142" HP.

Jason, you're remarkably fortunate to have FIOS. As for the rest of us, we do indeed have to deal with the limitations of our television sources. But good to know it can do what's asked of it.


John
post #4483 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neowulf View Post

I watch HBO all the time on mine (RS46) with ATT Uverse. It looks beautiful.


And that's a compromised source. Thanks, it helps to know.


John
Edited by John Clark - 7/29/13 at 9:16pm
post #4484 of 8035
Jason,

So, now I am completely on the fence. You've seen, tested and reported on all of these projectors, and I trust your impressions. I have previously been a big JVC fan, for obvious reasons. But, it has been a huge let down, to put it mildly, to find they will not even acknowledge the Magenta Stripe issue that afflicts mine, and many other's projectors. And after only 1600 hours, I should be upset, as you have acknowledged. It's very hard to trust them again, to the tune of $3k.

The difficulty is that I still want the best projector for my needs now that I have to replace it. Sony's 3 year warranty, extra bulb, and amazing reviews had me very, very close to buying one. Given my needs are 50% movies and 50% tv, with no gaming and minor interest, at best, in 3d, it seems the RS46 might still be the best option. A hard choice.


John
Edited by John Clark - 7/21/13 at 8:21pm
post #4485 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post

Jason,

So, now I am completely on the fence. You've seen, tested and reported on all of these projectors, and I trust your impressions. I have previously been a big JVC fan, for obvious reasons. But, it has been a huge let down, to put it mildly, to find they will not even acknowledge the Magenta Stripe issue that afflicts mine, and many other's projectors. And after only 1600 hours, I should be upset, as you have acknowledged. It's very hard to trust them again, to the tune of $3k.

The difficulty is that I still want the best projector for my needs now that I have to replace it. Sony's 3 year warranty, extra bulb, and amazing reviews had me very, very close to buying one. Given my needs are 50% movies and 50% tv, with no gaming and minor interest, at best, in 3d, it seems the RS46 might still be the best option. A hard choice.


John
Don't discount the HC5 if 2d is a big deal. It can be had for less than the 46
post #4486 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

Don't discount the HC5 if 2d is a big deal. It can be had for less than the 46

The HC5 has it's fair share of issues. Many people were reporting an issue with the manual iris. Setting it too low was causing odd issues with color. Many people were also complaining about bright corners. My unit had very noticeable bright corners. The low end JVC has better contrast with the use of the manual iris, looks sharper with text and film, is brighter and has lens memory (for those who need it). The only thing noticeably better with the HC5 is it's native motion handling. A refurbished JVC DLA-X30/RS45 can be purchased for less than an HC-5 and stands for a much better value over the HC5 at that price. If I were him I'd look into that. Call AVScience to see if they have any in stock. I know JVC themselves were selling them last week on ebay for $1725. Add a cheaper DLP for strict 3D use (the Optoma HD25 is a great choice) and you've got a 2D + 3D match made in heaven, and you'll still be under your $3000 budget. I don't think you'll be able to find a better 2D image for under $3000. The JVC is VERY hard to beat at this price.
post #4487 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

check w/ AVS on HW50 pricing.

I looked around but do not see anywhere on avsforum to request a quote from AVS. How does one do that?
post #4488 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by cek View Post

I looked around but do not see anywhere on avsforum to request a quote from AVS. How does one do that?

http://shop.avscience.com/
post #4489 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

Don't discount the HC5 if 2d is a big deal. It can be had for less than the 46

The HC5 has it's fair share of issues. Many people were reporting an issue with the manual iris. Setting it too low was causing odd issues with color. Many people were also complaining about bright corners. My unit had very noticeable bright corners. The low end JVC has better contrast with the use of the manual iris, looks sharper with text and film, is brighter and has lens memory (for those who need it). The only thing noticeably better with the HC5 is it's native motion handling. A refurbished JVC DLA-X30/RS45 can be purchased for less than an HC-5 and stands for a much better value over the HC5 at that price. If I were him I'd look into that. Call AVScience to see if they have any in stock. I know JVC themselves were selling them last week on ebay for $1725. Add a cheaper DLP for strict 3D use (the Optoma HD25 is a great choice) and you've got a 2D + 3D match made in heaven, and you'll still be under your $3000 budget. I don't think you'll be able to find a better 2D image for under $3000. The JVC is VERY hard to beat at this price.

Hmm I hadn't seen any reports of the manual iris issue on the HC5. I have a pretty decent unit right no, with almost no showing of bright corners and its very sharp. @ under 2k brand new it's hard to go with a refurb over this unit. The 2d picture quality rivals most PJ's I ave seen lately. IMO a HC5 and radiance mini are a perfect complement.
post #4490 of 8035
If you check the official thread you'll see what I'm taking about with the iris. Yes, the HC5 puts out a nice picture, but I think that for less money the JVC puts out an even nicer one with fewer problems ootb. If you're a big stickler with motion, the HC5 is the better choice. Mitsubishi is using Sony's newer SXRD panels which are great for motion and Mitsubishi also has one of the best implementations of frame interpolation around.
Edited by Seegs108 - 7/22/13 at 5:53am
post #4491 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by cek View Post

I looked around but do not see anywhere on avsforum to request a quote from AVS. How does one do that?

Sent you a PM. smile.gif
Reply
Reply
post #4492 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I doubt that reviewer had Verizon FIOS.... smile.gif

The PQ is only going to look as good as the sources capabilities on any of these projectors. I recently watched the 2013 Grammy Awards recorded on my Media Center 7 + Ceton tuner + FIOS and it looked amazing on my 142" HP.


Considering the screen, that says a lot for the rest of the chain. Yuk Yuk Just kidding. smile.gif
post #4493 of 8035
The Verizon guy is installing FiOS as I type this post! He just asked me why I have 4 projectors. rolleyes.gif

Edit:



cool.gifcool.gifcool.gifcool.gifcool.gifcool.gif Bring on the 4K streaming!
Edited by Seegs108 - 7/22/13 at 7:12am
post #4494 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post

Jason,

So, now I am completely on the fence. You've seen, tested and reported on all of these projectors, and I trust your impressions. I have previously been a big JVC fan, for obvious reasons. But, it has been a huge let down, to put it mildly, to find they will not even acknowledge the Magenta Stripe issue that afflicts mine, and many other's projectors. And after only 1600 hours, I should be upset, as you have acknowledged. It's very hard to trust them again, to the tune of $3k.

The difficulty is that I still want the best projector for my needs now that I have to replace it. Sony's 3 year warranty, extra bulb, and amazing reviews had me very, very close to buying one. Given my needs are 50% movies and 50% tv, with no gaming and minor interest, at best, in 3d, it seems the RS46 might still be the best option. A hard choice.


John

the only thing i can say on the RS46 is that it's the 3rd year of this chassis and there hasn't been any reports of the magenta issue on this series starting with the RS40 back in 2010. I've had the RS40, 50, 55 in my HT and tested the RS45 and RS46 as well.

The RS46 is initially less expensive than the HW50. The includes glasses, extra lamp and extra year warranty help offset the difference in price on the HW50.

The current entry JVC is a better version of your current model, you'll likely be impressed if you see it. The Sony looks great as well with RC on low. The JVC is easier to to focus and setup with the full electronics controls.

overall you can't go wrong with either decision.
post #4495 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The Verizon guy is installing FiOS as I type this post! He just asked me why I have 4 projectors. rolleyes.gif

Edit:



cool.gifcool.gifcool.gifcool.gifcool.gifcool.gif Bring on the 4K streaming!

58 mbps!!!!


I get 5, haha
post #4496 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

If you check the official thread you'll see what I'm taking about with the iris. Yes, the HC5 puts out a nice picture, but I think that for less money the JVC puts out an even nicer one with fewer problems ootb. If you're a big stickler with motion, the HC5 is the better choice. Mitsubishi is using Sony's newer SXRD panels which are great for motion and Mitsubishi also has one of the best implementations of frame interpolation around.

I found the issue you were referring to. It was early in the thread. I personally didn't experience the issue as I run my iris wide open.
post #4497 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

agreed. I don't watch much tv directly anymore because I have the worst service I can imagine(not true, but i'm so tired of the dumb 4:3 aspect ratio, and the fact nearly 100% of the content is shown in a widescreen format with black bars top and bottom, as if you can even buy 4:3 TV's anymore...)

feed it a good signal, it'll give you a good picture.

Well a good signal obviously helps, but there is a reason DLP's are favored for TV beyond just the signal.

The JVC shines its best mostly with very high-end cameras doing the filming (high-end digital, 35mm, or 70mm, whatever), or reference level content. That is why you will hear people say the JVC looks very good on film-like content, but not as good on digital looking content. I know what they mean, even though that statement isn't exact, there is a method to their madness.

Most TV shows and many recordings are done using generic cheaper forms of lighting and cheaper cinematography. This tends to look better on a DLP sometimes, regardless of the signal clarity.
There are exceptions like Falling Skies, Once Upon a Time, Game of Thrones, those high budget TV shows tend to look very good on the JVC partly because lots of dark scenes, but more so because those shows have a film-like quality to the way the lighting is handled. Hence, those shows use "theater lighting" methods rather than a generic super-bright light which is what you see in regular Drama shows (think Law and Order, or even Big Bang Theory), these last two examples just won't look as good on a JVC (sorry).

If I were watching some show like a SOAP, or a DRAMA, Police Detectives, or court show, news, sports, whatever --- all that stuff tends to look slightly better on a DLP. That said, the difference isn't huge between a JVC and a DLP on this type of content, and usually you need a pretty high-end DLP for it to really beat the JVC on a lot of TV content (like a Runco).

It doesn't mean the JVC cannot beat a DLP on a TV signal, it just means there are more variables.
post #4498 of 8035
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Well a good signal obviously helps, but there is a reason DLP's are favored for TV beyond just the signal.

The JVC shines its best mostly with very high-end cameras doing the filming (high-end digital, 35mm, or 70mm, whatever), or reference level content. That is why you will hear people say the JVC looks very good on film-like content, but not as good on digital looking content. I know what they mean, even though that statement isn't exact, there is a method to their madness.

Most TV shows and many recordings are done using generic cheaper forms of lighting and cheaper cinematography. This tends to look better on a DLP sometimes, regardless of the signal clarity.
There are exceptions like Falling Skies, Once Upon a Time, Game of Thrones, those high budget TV shows tend to look very good on the JVC partly because lots of dark scenes, but more so because those shows have a film-like quality to the way the lighting is handled. Hence, those shows use "theater lighting" methods rather than a generic super-bright light which is what you see in regular Drama shows (think Law and Order, or even Big Bang Theory), these last two examples just won't look as good on a JVC (sorry).

If I were watching some show like a SOAP, or a DRAMA, Police Detectives, or court show, news, sports, whatever --- all that stuff tends to look slightly better on a DLP. That said, the difference isn't huge between a JVC and a DLP on this type of content, and usually you need a pretty high-end DLP for it to really beat the JVC on a lot of TV content (like a Runco).

It doesn't mean the JVC cannot beat a DLP on a TV signal, it just means there are more variables.

maybe I need to view a quality DLP... but I can say compared to my plasmas, the jvc does just as good of job with all the HDTV I watch. for what it's worth, i'm a huge big bang theory fan, it looks fantastic on the jvc.

you may just have higher standards than most?

the bottom line is if nobody told me otherwise, I wouldn't have even thought about it. even when i'm looking for it, I don't see anything offensive when watching TV on the jvc. it may be better on a good DLP, but it's almost like complaining that your Ferrari is slow, because a lambo can go 10mph faster. it's more than good enough for me biggrin.gif
post #4499 of 8035
Thread Starter 
Tonight I saw Pacific rim 3D in a local 'digital-imax' theater. I know people get bent at this since it's not really an imax screen, but it's still a decent size. Nothing quite like the bad boy setup in King of Prussia PA.

being realistic though, the digital imax theaters are more accessible to most folks that don't live near the real deal.

imax2.jpg

imax3.jpg


In general, it really wasn't that impressive. Not the movie, the movie was awesome.. can't wait to see this on 3D BD.

the overall 3D presentation was average. It's about the same as all the other 3D theaters i've been to over the last 4 years.

Here's my pros and cons for the $17.50 I spent

pros:

  • Big Screens are always cool

  • sound was pretty good, tuned for a reaction from the crowd, dialog wasn't as clear as it should have been. LFE fans will go nuts over this movie.


Cons:

  • looks like 2K, overall soft PQ

  • glasses - I brought several pair to check out. I've decided I really don't like passive glasses for a number of reasons:

    1. heavy awareness of the polarized lenses. Maybe some people don't pick up on this, but it was bugging me. While the theater was overall dark, there was a small platform at the bottom base that was reflecting light off the screen. 1 eyes saw it, the other didn't. I could also see the same anomaly off the black ceiling which was lit up much more than my HT setup is. In general, I was always aware that I was looking through polarized lenses which was distracting.

    2. head tilt - the slightest movement of the head can introduce crosstalk into the image.

  • contrast - average if I was ranking it compared to what I've seen at home. A number of the low APL scenes were screaming for something with better contrast.


The whole time I'm wishing I watching this at home with an advanced copy of the 3D BD. I guess this is 3D for the masses, but there's no doubt it can look better at home with the right setup.








Big HP screen + Sharp 30K + G20 Glasses = #1 3D 'bang for the buck award' 2013
post #4500 of 8035
My local faux IMAX is a converted normal sized stadium theater inside a multiplex. The audio is the main attraction there. We had a home theater meet up that started with watching Mission Impossible - Ghost Protocol at the "IMAX" theater. AVS member MKTheater came along with us. If you aren't familiar with him, check out the audio section to see the MANY audio setups he's had over the years. Calling his theaters audio setup overkill would be an understatement by most standards, but that doesn't mean his setup isn't awesome! He said the one in Albany is unique in the regard that it's a converted normal sized stadium theater room. The bass was AMAZING. The scene where the Kremlin gets blown up shook every ounce of my being and I'm pretty sure scared the hell out of people walking by in the mall. The picture was okay and I think that some of the Sony 4K projectors on smaller screens in that same multiplex put out a much nicer picture. For instance, I saw The Possession last year and I was BLOWN AWAY at how amazing this looked in theaters. I bought the Blu-ray expecting the same PQ and the BD transfer looked nothing like how I remembered it in theaters. I'm still baffled by that.
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