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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 161

post #4801 of 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexMan View Post

I am between the JVC RS46 and the Sony HW50. I have a 120" wide scope screen and want to be able to fill the screen for scope movies. With Sony not having motorized lens on the upcoming HW55 it would appear the JVC is the clear winner. The thing is I would like to game in the home theater and JVC's input lag is higher.

My other idea, which adds costs, would be to throw in a Lumagen mini to the Sony and stretch everything to 2.35. Unfortunately there seems to be no easy answer unless someone has experience gaming on JVC.

Any reason to count out the Panasonic PT-AE8000 which has brightness, CIH and low lag? Cheaper too.

Adding a Lumagen or any other processor to digitally downscale from 2.35 to 1.77 will likely add back enough lag to equal the JVC's native sluggishness, and look worse.
Edited by Pyxle - 9/14/13 at 10:19pm
post #4802 of 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

and your 1000ES looks even sharper to your eyes?
Since you are selling your Planar 8150, what are you going to get next?
post #4803 of 8052
I'm going to see if I can afford a 1000ES. If not, I don't know. The thing is, I don't really have a dedicated space in my new apartment for my equipment. Using the PD8150, or any projector really, with white walls is absolute garbage. The retroreflectiveness of the high power material helps reduce stray light to a minimum but it's not really enough to stop the image from being partially washed out. With that said, if I can't afford the 1000ES it won't really be a deal breaker for me because there's no optimum space to use it in currently and would probably look no where near it could anyways.

I currently have a Danley DTS10 begging me to buy a house so it can get some use. mad.gif
post #4804 of 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

planar and the sharp 30k

Planar-Sharp.jpg

I like using the new movie 'Oblivion' for comparisons, it's an amazing BD transfer than is razor sharp in many of the scenes.

I had to shut the primary iris on the 30K to 'high contrast' to match the peak brightness of the Planar. (high brightness = ~950 lumens with high lamp on the Sharp).

I could spend all day covering each lens looking for differences (just burned up 3 hours).. I can't imagine any other way of comparing one projector to another.

To me this is the only way to really test projectors to se the differences between them and I always test like this.smile.gif
post #4805 of 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I'm going to bet the Runco is a bit better than the Sharp. On/Off contrast would probably be lower on the Sharp anyhow, and the Runco IRIS probably beats it. Runco IRIS beats the Epson IRIS easy, but maybe not the Sony (wait and see what Zombie says)...
I'm guessing you realize that "iris" is not an acronym, so why not type it out correctly? It's just an idea. wink.gif
post #4806 of 8052
Iris is not, but stfu and gtfa are defintely ones. wink.gif
post #4807 of 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah View Post

I'm guessing you realize that "iris" is not an acronym, so why not type it out correctly? It's just an idea. wink.gif

Go Cap a Nazi...
When you figure that one out, let me know...
post #4808 of 8052
Thread Starter 
I just noticed that Sound and Vision & Home Theater magazine have merged. The editorial states that the original gang is still together.

it's good to see Kris Deering's name as an active video reviewer. Some other familiar names include Dave Vaughn who posts frequently on AVS.

I hope they focus more on projector reviews like HT did, S&V seemed focused on TV's and audio with occasional content on projectors.
post #4809 of 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I just noticed that Sound and Vision & Home Theater magazine have merged. The editorial states that the original gang is still together.

it's good to see Kris Deering's name as an active video reviewer. Some other familiar names include Dave Vaughn who posts frequently on AVS.

I hope they focus more on projector reviews like HT did, S&V seemed focused on TV's and audio with occasional content on projectors.

Yep, I just got my latest copy and didn't know why I was getting S&V as I only subscribe to Home Theater. However there was a letter in the mailer that explained the merger. Unfortunately, I am not too thrilled, as I think S&V had really gone much farther to gadgets and such and away from Home Theater. I hope it doesn't start skewing that way.
post #4810 of 8052
I fired up my newly-acquired used PD8130 on Tuesday. Conditions were quite a bit less than optimal since it wasn't permanently mounted and, with only about an hour to play with it, I didn't feel like getting the lens shift (which is controlled by a hex wrench) perfectly dialed in for such a temporary setup. Mainly, I wanted to see that it had survived the shipping process and was fully functional, though I did watch some familiar material just to get a sense of the unit. This is all very preliminary and subjective, but I thought I'd weigh in on it all the same.

Overall, I was quite impressed. No, its black floor is not state-of-the-art, but apparent contrast is good enough in very dark scenes so as to not be distracting and quickly becomes more impressive with even minor increases in APL. Color, optical sharpness, and shadow detail are excellent. Dithering is the lowest I've seen on a DLP. RBE was low, but not entirely absent. Scenes like the B&W opening of Casino Royale still bring out RBE to an extent. On some DLPs, I feel like I can make myself see RBE in basically any scene. That is not at all the case with the Planar.

The DI implementation was particularly impressive. I only noticed it at work once, and that was in a credit screen/transition. With actual live action content, I couldn't detect it.

I have a 9.5G Kuro in the same room and I would put the Planar's color depth and accuracy in that same league.

Overall, the picture is very "DLP-like," with great sharpness, clarity, and intra-scene contrast. The refinements are apparent, though, and it makes me wish more companies were producing high-end DLPs at this point. The UniShape lamp technology seems to work as advertised in terms of reducing dithering and RBE. This implementation of TI's DynamicBlack iris is a welcome addition, too, and seems to have very little downside.

It would be great even to see Runco (as the current incarnation of Planar) updating their products a bit, since the LS-3/LS-5/8130/8150 platform is now 5+ years old. We know they did something right at the time if that same optical block is being used in both Runco's and other brands' > $10k LED models, though.

I had a recent shot at a 720p 3-chip DLP that part of me regrets not taking, but I think I may be happier with the 8130 in the long run. I went to see Riddick last night on the IMAX screen of the local multiplex. This is kind of "IMAX light," not what I'd consider up to the standards of real IMAX implementations with their huge, noticeably curved screens. They use a 3-chip DLP on this screen that can't be any greater than 1080p. I was sitting in the 3rd row of the second level of seating (around 1x screen widths, I'd guess) and could easily make out the pixel structure in the opening credits and, at times, in bright highlights. I know there are some other advantages to 3-chip DLPs, but I'm not sure I'd want to trade the elimination of RBE for the step down in resolution. The next time I see a good deal on a 3-chipper, I may have to buy it to find out, though. wink.gif
post #4811 of 8052
Glad you like your PD8130. I'm wondering why is there such an interest in this projector all of a sudden? You and Zombie both bought one.
post #4812 of 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Glad you like your PD8130. I'm wondering why is there such an interest in this projector all of a sudden? You and Zombie both bought one.
Well, a sample size of two isn't much to base a trend on. wink.gif I think we just both happened to find great deals at about the same time.

I'm looking forward to getting this mounted...hopefully this weekend sometime. Then I can provide more astute observations. The first impressions are very good, though.
post #4813 of 8052
Thread Starter 
Noah, thanks for adding your feedback. We both got great deals, but yours was an absolute steal... !

I bought one because I have never seen a projector that was made not with plastic and glass, but with dried unicorn tears.

This is a rare substance that was only used on the Planar projectors and the Sony VW1000. I figured, start with the cheap one first....biggrin.gif


all kidding aside, it's a shame Runco didn't update this exact model with 3D. I know there is a more expensive model w/ same light engine, but I think there could have been market for a 5-6K single panel 3D DLP. 7-8K if they threw in auto lens controls.
post #4814 of 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

all kidding aside, it's a shame Runco didn't update this exact model with 3D. I know there is a more expensive model w/ same light engine, but I think there could have been market for a 5-6K single panel 3D DLP. 7-8K if they threw in auto lens controls.

I've often thought the same (love my $550 LS-1 smile.gif, but just assume they do not think they can eek enough brightness out of the single chip platform at reasonable sound levels for a viable 3d projector. Is the x200i similar lightpath in a new chassis? If so, they traded some chassis volume and contrast for brightness... Not sure I'd make that trade even at the same price, let alone the current asking price for the x200i! At this point, even within DLP, a case can be made for a two projector setup.
post #4815 of 8052
If any of the HW50 owners who run it on HTPC could do similar comparison, I'd be very interested how reality creation stacks up against unsharp mask filter in ffdshow ) http://www.avsforum.com/t/935620/show-us-your-screenshots/2910#post_23758850
post #4816 of 8052
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

If any of the HW50 owners who run it on HTPC could do similar comparison, I'd be very interested how reality creation stacks up against unsharp mask filter in ffdshow ) http://www.avsforum.com/t/935620/show-us-your-screenshots/2910#post_23758850

from the examples you posted, the unsharp mask in ffdshow looks more refined than reality creation.

This is the lowest setting, the scene is from the original Underworld. I would turn off the RC on this particular movie, it's a little too harsh for my preferences.

off

HW50-Reality.jpg

on / minimum setting

HW50-Reality1.jpg

off

HW50-Reality2.jpg

on / minimum setting

HW50-Reality3.jpg
post #4817 of 8052
zombie

I have read the entire site on the various settings you use and others use for getting the smoothest yet most detailed picture on the Sony VPL-HW50Es.
For 3d you recommend RC 30, MPEG minimum and glasses brightness 3. What do you set the RC noise filtering in RC at and the NR in the expert settings. Same question for 2d viewing. What is RC noise filtering set at and what about MPEG and NR under expert settings. I sit 12.3 feet from my 126 16x9 Carada brilliant white screen. I see all the changes these controls make. One final question. When you focus do you go for razor sharp focus on the pixels or where the pixels jell to a solid white line. This plays a difference in the noise the RC picks up. I have been shooting for maximum sharp pixel but with priority on uniform evenness across the entire screen. The reason I ask is I seem to be constantly playing with the settings to keep low grain and sharpness.
post #4818 of 8052
I've shortlisted the HW50, RS46, Panasonic 8K and Epson 5020. In a light controlled room, will they be bright enough for a 143" AT (1.0 gain) scope screen?
post #4819 of 8052
tmavs,
I'm in the exact same boat. My scope screen is only 134" though. What's your target throw distance?
post #4820 of 8052
Maximum throw I could do is 18ft.

Using the Projector Central calculator for a 143" diagonal says:
Throw: 15' 3"
Zoom: 1.51x (maxed out)
Brightness is only 13fL.
post #4821 of 8052
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmavs View Post

I've shortlisted the HW50, RS46, Panasonic 8K and Epson 5020. In a light controlled room, will they be bright enough for a 143" AT (1.0 gain) scope screen?

What is your primary use for the projector? if it's mainly movies, i'd recommend the RS46 or HW50, both are within 100 lumens of one another @ D65. That is a fairly large screen but ~900-1000 lumens should be ok if the room is light controlled.
post #4822 of 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

What is your primary use for the projector? if it's mainly movies, i'd recommend the RS46 or HW50, both are within 100 lumens of one another @ D65. That is a fairly large screen but ~900-1000 lumens should be ok if the room is light controlled.

Thanks, it will be used mainly for movies.
post #4823 of 8052
Hi zombie10k, when do you expect to have round 3 shoot out thanks. biggrin.gif
post #4824 of 8052
Zombie, do you still use darbee with jvc x55? Do you think it worth having one?
post #4825 of 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsil View Post

Hi zombie10k, when do you expect to have round 3 shoot out thanks. biggrin.gif

He has had all the new JVCs, Epsons, and Sonys shown or talked about at Cedia 2013 for several months now and you should expect his complete shootout to be posted by 6PM tonight. Sis stay tuned and check back.smile.gif
post #4826 of 8052
That's why I asked lol. biggrin.gif
post #4827 of 8052
For what its worth, I stopped using my Darblet with my 1000ES. While the picture without it is not as good as with a working Darblet in the chain, my Darblet failed and no longer would pass video. So rather than watch an unlit screen, I took the Darblet out of the chain and sent it back for a warranty repair.
post #4828 of 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

For what its worth, I stopped using my Darblet with my 1000ES. While the picture without it is not as good as with a working Darblet in the chain, my Darblet failed and no longer would pass video. So rather than watch an unlit screen, I took the Darblet out of the chain and sent it back for a warranty repair.
So what you're saying is that the Darblet improved your black levels?
post #4829 of 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmavs View Post

I've shortlisted the HW50, RS46, Panasonic 8K and Epson 5020. In a light controlled room, will they be bright enough for a 143" AT (1.0 gain) scope screen?

The 5020 and the HW50 do not have lens memory, so they will not be practical for a scope screen.
Reply
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post #4830 of 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post


So what you're saying is that the Darblet improved your black levels?

Yes. When it failed but the price was on/off, ansi and intrascene contrast at 0. Actually not 0, but undefined. You do have to compromise somewhere I suppose.
Edited by mark haflich - 9/29/13 at 8:50am
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