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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 182

post #5431 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

Thanks to all recent posts answering my questions about low lag, good black levels, projectors out there... Does the answer change in any way if I tell you I do NOT need any 3D capabilities? I just want fast response, and very good black levels!

Nope, HW50 or HW55 is your best option for low input lag and 2D with very good black levels. I'm sure the Epson 5030/6030 is fine, but I don't think it would be better. There's trade-offs with either, but personally I would rather have the quieter Sony...whirring fans just detract from the overall immersive experience.

If you're planning on upgrading to 4K in a couple of years, the Epson 5030 may be the smarter/cheaper buy, but if you're going to wait 4-5 years (like myself) then I would get the Sony.

I couldn't imagine someone being unhappy with either choice though. There's much smaller LED/LCD HDTV's that cost more than either of these PJ's...much more.
post #5432 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12 View Post

Gnolivos - my apologies if this has already been covered, but you may not need as low lag of a unit as you think depending on how sensitive you are to lag, the level of gaming you do, and the lag on the display you are used to. I previously avoided epson pjs like the plague because of high input lag. I now have used an epson 6020 extensively for gaming after coming from a panny ptae7000, benq w7000, and mits hc5, and it definitely meets my gaming needs, which includes mostly offline fps. Granted, I am not the worlds premiere gamer by any stretch, but I have logged my share of hours on the old simulator believe me!

All that to say that some people are highly sensitive to lag and if you're one of them, likely the panny and the sony are your best bets as you have already determined. If however you are like me, maybe you have a few more options.

How is the picture quality between the hc5 and 6020, and is there sde at 11 feet with the 6020? Thanks for any reply.
post #5433 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

can we please fast forward the clock to May, 2014?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjKO10hKtYw

LFE addicts have to be looking forward to this. This will motivate me to install the remaining 3 buttkickers in my seats. cool.gif


GZ is my all time favorite movie bad guy.. !

dealwithit-godzilla-sunglasses.gif

TOTALLY off topic, but since you are a Godzilla fan, which one is the best of the bunch when it comes to the old ones? I was thinking of introducing him to my kids. tongue.gif I have a lot of fond memories of those movies, but I can only remember snipets. Mechagodzilla, the one with the 3 headed dragon (Gidrah?), mothra, a weird one with 2 green giants who are brothers? (not even sure it's a godzilla movie), godzilla vs kingkong, the one with the baby godzilla, the one with the little kid who has the most awesome toy of all time (was it a robot.....or a water buggy thing?) Darn my aging memory....anyway, which ones hold up today and are still enjoyable? Which is the best of all time?
post #5434 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

TOTALLY off topic, but since you are a Godzilla fan, which one is the best of the bunch when it comes to the old ones? I was thinking of introducing him to my kids. tongue.gif I have a lot of fond memories of those movies, but I can only remember snipets. Mechagodzilla, the one with the 3 headed dragon (Gidrah?), mothra, a weird one with 2 green giants who are brothers? (not even sure it's a godzilla movie), godzilla vs kingkong, the one with the baby godzilla, the one with the little kid who has the most awesome toy of all time (was it a robot.....or a water buggy thing?) Darn my aging memory....anyway, which ones hold up today and are still enjoyable? Which is the best of all time?

I think you will be shocked at how bad these are compared to current movies. Your kids will probably laugh at it. Might be best to leave it in your memory, because I think it will ruin it for you also. smile.gif
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post #5435 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I think you will be shocked at how bad these are compared to current movies. Your kids will probably laugh at it. Might be best to leave it in your memory, because I think it will ruin it for you also. smile.gif

Indeed. You really have to know what you are in for in re-visiting the Godzilla movies. Though it seems some grown-ups still like them.
A sort of exception is the very first black and white Godzilla movie; totally different in execution and tone from pretty much all the others.
It's amazing in terms of cinematography and mood, with even some of the FX looking quite impressive given the time. I did enjoy the Criterion Blu-Ray of
Godzilla quite a bit. Though it's slower pace could be an issue with younger kids.
post #5436 of 8005
I loved watching Godzilla growing up as a kid. Thanksgiving on TBS or TNT had a Godzilla marathon and showed several old Japanese movies where Godzilla is usually the good guy battling some evil creature from space. Here is a list from Wiki. By the way, my kids 5-9 yrs old love the old, cheesy Godzilla flicks. Remember the Godzilla cartoon on Saturday mornings? Godzilla on Monster Island and Godzilla vs. Megalon are two of my favs. The Megalon movie is the one with the robot who was able to make itself giant and help Godzilla defeat a couple nasty things trying to destroy Tokyo. Man, Tokyo was not a safe place to live in the 50's - 70's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godzilla_(franchise)
post #5437 of 8005
Thread Starter 
just show them one of the many tribute videos on youtube.. I still get a kick out of how creative they were with limited resources back then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv5sD6MFZlQ

The roar (and after echo) is still an amazing, chilling sound effect to this day...
post #5438 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

just show them one of the many tribute videos on youtube.. I still get a kick out of how creative they were with limited resources back then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv5sD6MFZlQ

The roar (and after echo) is still an amazing, chilling sound effect to this day...

Wow, that music alone gave me like 5 second long chills....haha. I just watched the orginal king kong with the kids and they were amused. Boy did I forget how violent that movie was though. Must have seen 30 people get killed via heads bitten off, close up of bodies being smushed into the ground. Kong must kill 8 creatures himself. And the ending is just brutal. I don't even think there is any music playing, just round after round of machine gun fire. The female lead doesn't even seem to care that he's being gunned down. Kids didn't seem to mind though.

Check out this list:
http://www.amazon.com/Godzilla-Movies-Ranked-Best-Worse/lm/2ZI28AQW7OIM9

The first one looks familiar. I'm going to have to research this topic some more
post #5439 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

just show them one of the many tribute videos on youtube.. I still get a kick out of how creative they were with limited resources back then.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv5sD6MFZlQ



The roar (and after echo) is still an amazing, chilling sound effect to this day...

 



The roar of Godzilla is iconic. Everyone who hears that 5 second clip knows from whence it came.
post #5440 of 8005
I've been running a Sharp XV-Z30000 and a Mits. HC8000 head-to-head for a couple of days now. My Epson and Sony PS3 3D (IR) glasses work fine with both projectors. There have been a few surprises. One thing that didn't surprise me is just how great these two projectors are at handling 3D ghosting -- there is none in the foreground and the backgrounds are the way they should be, that is, rock solid. What did surprise me was just how sharp and detailed the images are -- the clarity is the best I've seen. If the Mits was a little brighter in 3D it would be my overall choice -- best 3D I've ever seen and it has a great Iris system. If you have a 96" HP screen (or smaller) the Mits will not disappoint for 2D and 3D. It also has the best CFI system I've used. 3D looks amazing with the subtle but effective motion smoothing this system offers. The problem with the Mits is placement (and brightness) -- to get the most out of the HP screen you will need to limit its size and place the projector on a small table in front of the seating, which is something I don't have a problem doing, but many do. The Sharp has a noticeably brighter 3D image and great placement flexibility so it will work with larger screens and can be shelf mounted. Both of these projectors offer top notch 3D and surprisingly good 2D.

What a shame that these two companies are no longer making projectors for the home theatre market place.
post #5441 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I've been running a Sharp XV-Z30000 and a Mits. HC8000 head-to-head for a couple of days now. My Epson and Sony PS3 3D (IR) glasses work fine with both projectors. There have been a few surprises. One thing that didn't surprise me is just how great these two projectors are at handling 3D ghosting -- there is none in the foreground and the backgrounds are the way they should be, that is, rock solid. What did surprise me was just how sharp and detailed the images are -- the clarity is the best I've seen. If the Mits was a little brighter in 3D it would be my overall choice -- best 3D I've ever seen and it has a great Iris system. If you have a 96" HP screen (or smaller) the Mits will not disappoint for 2D and 3D. It also has the best CFI system I've used. 3D looks amazing with the subtle but effective motion smoothing this system offers. The problem with the Mits is placement (and brightness) -- to get the most out of the HP screen you will need to limit its size and place the projector on a small table in front of the seating, which is something I don't have a problem doing, but many do. The Sharp has a noticeably brighter 3D image and great placement flexibility so it will work with larger screens and can be shelf mounted. Both of these projectors offer top notch 3D and surprisingly good 2D.

What a shame that these two companies are no longer making projectors for the home theatre market place.

Good update, I'm still surprised at how easy the 3D is on my eyes with the Mit, and the CFI in 3D is by far the best I seen. In fact, in 2D the CFI is the best. 2D is right up there with my dpi led
post #5442 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

I had followed this thread for a long while and eventually gave up because I could not see a fit in any of these projectors to my needs. Anyway, people here are hugely knowledgeable, so I want to ask...
Is there ANY projector today that will meet the most basic of my needs: LOW INPUT LAG, and ABOVE AVERAGE BLACKS.

Is the only option still Sony HW50? I shied away from it because of poor sharpness, but I may have to reconsider since that is not one of my most basic needs smile.gif




See if you can find a Sony VPL-VW95ES - it fits your wishes perfect IMO smile.gif

And better Blacks then the HW50/55

Sharpere optic and Picture then the HW50/55

Very low input lag

And in generel it is very good at allmost everything and I think they are cheaper now to get


dj
Edited by d.j. - 12/13/13 at 3:27am
post #5443 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Good update, I'm still surprised at how easy the 3D is on my eyes with the Mit, and the CFI in 3D is by far the best I seen. In fact, in 2D the CFI is the best. 2D is right up there with my dpi led

There's 1 thing I wasn't crazy about on the HC8000. When the CW was set to 4x, I could easily see RBE. When I set it to 6x, the color changed and it appeared to have lost some light output. The color shift was enough to possible require a re-cal of the greyscale.

The 5X on the 30K is 'just right' for my eyes and it can crank out 950 D65 lumens in 2D mode which is nice and bright on the HP.
post #5444 of 8005
The one thing I notice with the Sharp is the loss of resolution during quick camera pans. I wish the Sharp had a good CFI system. The CFI on the Mits does a great job eliminating this.

I don't have a problem with RBE (it bothers me on the Acer in 2D, but not in 3D) so 4X on the MC8000 is fine for me. I've left it at 96hz and do notice some flicker on a all white screen, but I don't notice any in regular viewing. If the Mits had more vertical adjustment and a brighter image I believe it would have sold a lot more units. It was originally priced pretty competitively at $2,999.00. Sharp attempting to sell the XV-Z30000 at $5,000 took itself out of contention. At $2,000 to $3,000 it seems these units are selling pretty well. If I could only have one of these two I would take the Sharp since it'll handle the larger HP screens and is easy to place with the HP; however, I'm happy with both. biggrin.gif

I suspect Gravity is going to be a real ghosting torture test with all its high contrast scenes. It shouldn't be a problem for the 3D DLP projectors, but it may give all the non-DLP 3D projectors fits. I'm looking forward to this movie on BD.
post #5445 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

The one thing I notice with the Sharp is the loss of resolution during quick camera pans. I wish the Sharp had a good CFI system. The CFI on the Mits does a great job eliminating this.

I don't have a problem with RBE (it bothers me on the Acer in 2D, but not in 3D) so 4X on the MC8000 is fine for me. I've left it at 96hz and do notice some flicker on a all white screen, but I don't notice any in regular viewing. If the Mits had more vertical adjustment and a brighter image I believe it would have sold a lot more units. It was originally priced pretty competitively at $2,999.00. Sharp attempting to sell the XV-Z30000 at $5,000 took itself out of contention. At $2,000 to $3,000 it seems these units are selling pretty well. If I could only have one of these two I would take the Sharp since it'll handle the larger HP screens and is easy to place with the HP; however, I'm happy with both. biggrin.gif

I suspect Gravity is going to be a real ghosting torture test with all its high contrast scenes. It shouldn't be a problem for the 3D DLP projectors, but it may give all the non-DLP 3D projectors fits. I'm looking forward to this movie on BD.


Thanks for the report. CFI is one thing I personally cant do without now in any future 3d projector after having it in my 7000.
post #5446 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

See if you can find a Sony VPL-VW95ES - it fits your wishes perfect IMO smile.gif

And better Blacks then the HW50/55

Sharpere optic and Picture then the HW50/55

Very low input lag

And in generel it is very good at allmost everything and I think they are cheaper now to get


dj

What are the advantages of the 50/55 over the 95?
post #5447 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

GZ is my all time favorite movie bad guy.. !

dealwithit-godzilla-sunglasses.gif

Well, it's nice to know Godzilla was able to find 3D glasses in his size.
post #5448 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

What are the advantages of the 50/55 over the 95?




More light output

RC ( Work good in small doses, but the 95ES natural sharpness is better IMO )

More light output in 3D

( the 95ES has motorized shift,zoom,focus and 5 presets )

Did I mention the HW50/55 has a lot more light output biggrin.gif

So if you have a very big (+100" wide or bigger ) or/and a low gain ( around 1.0 gain ) screen ,or are into 3D, or like to have a very bright Picture ( say over 16 - 20 FL ) even after 500 - 1000 hours on lamp, I would take the HW50/55

dj
post #5449 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Thanks for the report. CFI is one thing I personally cant do without now in any future 3d projector after having it in my 7000.

I have now read most of the reviews about both the Mits and the Sharp and paid special attention to Zombie's comments about these projectors. I trust Zombie -- he gives an honest assessment with no honeymoon euphoria thrown in. He also lives with each projector for some time and tests all the various features. Since he likes 3D he pays special attention to how each projector performs in that mode.

It seemed unfair to me that TJN gave the Sony 1000 the benefit of the doubt for 3D by trying it with a HP screen (he was very unhappy with in on a neutral gain screen) followed by a 4/5 score for 3D, but the Mits was knocked big time for its lack of brightness in 3D, but it didn't get to show its stuff on an HP screen -- why the bias? The bottom line is that you really have to see them for yourself in the environment you intend to use them.

I seem to be particularly sensitive to "ghosting" and motion artifacts, but not particularly sensitive to RBE, flicker or colour errors. I'm fussy about brightness as well, especially for 3D. What I really care about isn't necessarily on the critical list for others and what really bothers them may not be all that important to me. As they say -- pick your poison. biggrin.gif
Edited by Deja Vu - 12/14/13 at 7:27am
post #5450 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I have now read most of the reviews about both the Mits and the Sharp and paid special attention to Zombie's comments about these projectors. I trust Zombie -- he gives an honest assessment with no honeymoon euphoria thrown in. He also lives with each projector for some time and tests all the various features. Since he likes 3D he pays special attention to how each projector performs in that mode.

It seemed unfair to me that TJN gave the Sony 1000 the benefit of the doubt for 3D by trying it with a HP screen (he was very unhappy with in on a neutral gain screen) followed by a 4/5 score for 3D, but the Mits was knocked big time for its lack of brightness in 3D, but it didn't get to show its stuff on an HP screen -- why the bias? The bottom line is that you really have to see them for yourself in the environment you intend to use them.

I seem to be particularly sensitive to "ghosting" and motion artifacts, but not particularly sensitive to RBE, flicker or colour errors. I'm fussy about brightness as well, especially for 3D. What I really care about isn't necessarily on the critical list for others and what really bothers them may not be all that important to me. As they say -- pick your poison. biggrin.gif

Agreed. We are fortunate to have Zombie as he leaves out the BS and gives us invaluable objective based info and level headed very fair subjective impressions as well. I have been looking for the "buy that man a beer" emoticon for years, but can't seem to find it. biggrin.gif



But yeah, everyone's different as far as their poison goes and what's important as well for 2d and 3d. Like you, ghosting is my number one offender as far as 3d and not far behind for me is flicker as well.
post #5451 of 8005
Yeah, ghosting is my number one issue with 3D displays, too. I'm not very susceptible to flicker issues, and for me ultra-high contrast is less important for 3D than it is for 2D. By its very nature, I think 3D adds to the perception of contrast. Maybe that's why DLP's generally lower contrast doesn't bother people as much with 3D content. Still, the Samsung OLED display that I saw kinda spoiled me. It had it all - zero ghosting, super-fast refresh rates, no flicker and ultra-deep contrast. Add 4K to that formula and you'll have the ultimate stereoscopic 3D display.
post #5452 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Yeah, ghosting is my number one issue with 3D displays, too. I'm not very susceptible to flicker issues, and for me ultra-high contrast is less important for 3D than it is for 2D. By its very nature, I think 3D adds to the perception of contrast. Maybe that's why DLP's generally lower contrast doesn't bother people as much with 3D content. Still, the Samsung OLED display that I saw kinda spoiled me. It had it all - zero ghosting, super-fast refresh rates, no flicker and ultra-deep contrast. Add 4K to that formula and you'll have the ultimate stereoscopic 3D display.

I need to check out an OLED. I keep hearing rave reports like yours! smile.gif
post #5453 of 8005
Let the games begin smile.gif

opbi.png
Edited by Seegs108 - 12/15/13 at 8:03pm
post #5454 of 8005
Thread Starter 
1st gen e-shift wins just on the bling factor alone.... shiny gloss paint w/ metal fleck (+ cool lens door) vs. dull matte finish.

same reason I think the Planar 81xx looks nicer than the Runco's... biggrin.gif
post #5455 of 8005
Seegs what projectors are they? 4810 and ??
post #5456 of 8005
X55R + X90 (RS4810 + RS65)
post #5457 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

1st gen e-shift wins just on the bling factor alone....(+ cool lens door) vs. dull matte finish.

same reason I think the Planar 81xx looks nicer than the Runco's... biggrin.gif


Z

I have to say redface.gif, I would pick the dull matte finish every time ( whats the point in covering your HT in veltex etc. and then have " shiny gloss paint w/ metal fleck " wink.gif )


but I admit, the lens door is cool biggrin.gif

dj
post #5458 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Z

I have to say redface.gif, I would pick the dull matte finish every time ( whats the point in covering your HT in veltex etc. and then have " shiny gloss paint w/ metal fleck " wink.gif )


but I admit, the lens door is cool biggrin.gif

dj

ok, how about a mix of matte and gloss? look how sharp the front of the VW1000 looks.... nice and shiny.. biggrin.gif

SonyVW1000-1.jpg


then the door opens and you get to see the ARC lens:

SonyLens1.jpg
post #5459 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Agreed. We are fortunate to have Zombie as he leaves out the BS and gives us invaluable objective based info and level headed very fair subjective impressions as well. I have been looking for the "buy that man a beer" emoticon for years, but can't seem to find it. biggrin.gif



But yeah, everyone's different as far as their poison goes and what's important as well for 2d and 3d. Like you, ghosting is my number one offender as far as 3d and not far behind for me is flicker as well.


We are going to test his bias, when I send him my VW600 to compare to his VW1000. smile.gif
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post #5460 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

ok, how about a mix of matte and gloss? look how sharp the front of the VW1000 looks.... nice and shiny.. :D

SonyVW1000-1.jpg


then the door opens and you get to see the ARC lens:

SonyLens1.jpg



biggrin.gif yes, your right , I actully hate that shinny plastic front on it eek.gif - they should have made it matte Black or like the rest off the projector ( very dark grey ? )

And a / the mix is plan stupid in my book:)

dj
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