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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 192

post #5731 of 8005
It is worth noting the disparity between JVC and Sony pricing is only in the US.

In the UK for example, the price difference between the Sony VW500 and JVC RS57 (X700) is only 1500 dollars!

However, the bad reports about 3D with the VW500 may actually mean for the first time that the JVC is better or at least equal in terms of 3D performance.


The fact that the Sony has more pop may have something to do with the position of the iris in the optic assembly. JVC's dynamic aperture still puts the front aperture in the same position as it has always been. This means as it opens more, the intra-scene native contrast reduces. Arguably, it may be better to restrict the aperture (using the manual offset), so that you don't go into retina burning territory because as you do so, you are more likely to get bright but flatter images. I would suspect that having the manual aperture offset at around -8 is probably the best balance.

Jason, it would be interesting to compare a bright scene in high bulb mode with a fixed aperture of -10 or so, against the same scene shown on a wider ranging auto-aperture in low bulb mode. I suspect you will actually get more pop in the former.

I was looking for a chart that showed how the Sony's change contrast based on aperture, and I can't find it. However I seem to remember that they are less influenced by aperture position due to their different optic assembly.
post #5732 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

What gain is the screen? is the room light controlled?

1.1 gain acoustic screen (from Falcon Screens). Room is 100% light controlled (not a single ounce of light leak anywhere from outside sources).

Seating distance is front row @ 12ft, back row @18ft. Strictly Blu-Ray 2D viewing and 1080i DirecTV sports (mostly during NFL football season so not a deciding factor if sports motion is different between the two projectors).
post #5733 of 8005
"I actually wonder every time Zombie posts pictures of his projector rack, what does he actually use to watch movies? We know he uses the Sharp 30K for 3D, but what about 2D? Does it depend on the movie?"

Jason will probably chime in here, but from what I remember, he was using the Sharp for "day to day" 2D stuff as well... probably mostly for ease and cost of operation (and probably not having to change as many things going from 2D to 3D).
With all the high power (pun intended) equipment he has it's possible that he has changed his tune, or at least his instrument. biggrin.gif
post #5734 of 8005
Thread Starter 
If I can figure out a way to mount this Planar 8130, I would probably use it for most 2D since it's fairly bright @ 900+ lumens and the clarity / color is excellent. Then the 30K for 3D and the 1000 for critical 2D blurays + UHD movies. 2014 is the year of the 3 projector setup.... biggrin.gif

The problem with the Planar is the ridiculous throw distance... I need about 22 feet from the 142" which I can do with a ceiling mount but my new rack setup will block it so that may be out of the running.

@ BCJ - this might be a hard sell, especially if you were ok with the light output of the HW30 which is about on par with the RS56. One major benefit of the 600 is the lumen output. nearly 1000 in low lamp and 1600 in high lamp, so it can really light up a nice size screen. This is great for ambient light viewing or even for those that like a bright image.

if you didn't need the light or have an interest in it's 3D (which is quite good, better than the 56's imo) then it might make more sense to go with the JVC.
post #5735 of 8005
Deleted my posts due to incoherent rambling. Will repost my response to your advice soon, zombie.

Thanks so far!
post #5736 of 8005
Since when has "incoherent rambling" been a problem on AVS BigCoolJesus? smile.gif
post #5737 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by catonic View Post

Since when has "incoherent rambling" been a problem on AVS BigCoolJesus? smile.gif

I figured I could at least try to form a good train of thought for you guys to help me with. Trying to be a little nice cool.gif
post #5738 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

If I can figure out a way to mount this Planar 8130, I would probably use it for most 2D since it's fairly bright @ 900+ lumens and the clarity / color is excellent. Then the 30K for 3D and the 1000 for critical 2D blurays + UHD movies. 2014 is the year of the 3 projector setup.... biggrin.gif

The problem with the Planar is the ridiculous throw distance... I need about 22 feet from the 142" which I can do with a ceiling mount but my new rack setup will block it so that may be out of the running.

@ BCJ - this might be a hard sell, especially if you were ok with the light output of the HW30 which is about on par with the RS56. One major benefit of the 600 is the lumen output. nearly 1000 in low lamp and 1600 in high lamp, so it can really light up a nice size screen. This is great for ambient light viewing or even for those that like a bright image.

if you didn't need the light or have an interest in it's 3D (which is quite good, better than the 56's imo) then it might make more sense to go with the JVC.
That speaks volumes for the planar, I have been thinking of picking up an ls3 or ls5 to replace my infocus 777 the problem is (even though 1080p and better contrast would be a plus )ever time I power up the 777 I'm reminded of the wonderful eye popping image a 3 chip dlp gives
post #5739 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

@ BCJ - this might be a hard sell, especially if you were ok with the light output of the HW30 which is about on par with the RS56. One major benefit of the 600 is the lumen output. nearly 1000 in low lamp and 1600 in high lamp, so it can really light up a nice size screen. This is great for ambient light viewing or even for those that like a bright image.

if you didn't need the light or have an interest in it's 3D (which is quite good, better than the 56's imo) then it might make more sense to go with the JVC.

If I am considering the 600ES, should I just up the ante and look at the JVC RS57 or RS67 instead of the RS56? Should I finally do what I never have before and get the "best of the best"?
My whole concern has been "How much of an improvement will I see upgrading from the HW30ES to *insert model here*....since I am upgrading and spending the money, should I just go for the top so I know there will be drastic improvement?

Further clarification on what I am hoping to gain from upgrading my Sony HW30ES: better 2D calibrated picture quality (I always want the best reference picture possible), higher light output without having to use High lamp mode (had to switch my 30ES to high mode after 300 hours of use), sharper image, better blacks, native 4k support to have some sort of "future proof", and that overall "pop" factor a properly calibrated picture can have when all the settings (including light output) are perfect for a given setup.
Knowing my screen is rather large and a long throw distance, weighing each of these categories against one and other.....what price vs. performance recommendation would you make? Should I cut the JVC RS56 out of the equation and just make it come down to the Sony 600ES vs. JVC RS57/67? If so, how would your impressions of Sony vs. JVC change if it is the 600ES vs. the RS67 or even the RS57?

***As far as price vs. performance, I know each person has their own definition of what is too much $$$ to spend, so to try to put you in my shoes when making a recommendation to me based on price vs. performance, here is my "comfort" range of spending: ~$5000 would be "comfortable" spending (so the JVC RS56), in that I could buy a projector for that price and still have extra money from each paycheck of mine to spend on other non-essential things if need be. ~$10000 would be the absolute limit (so the Sony 600ES or JVC RS67), spending this much money on a projector would mean I would only be able to pay for essential things (bills, food, etc) for at least 6-8 months with little money left over to spend on non-essential things. The JVC RS57 would fall in the middle of these two extremes, higher than my "comfortable" spending of the JVC RS56 but less than my upper limit of the Sony 600ES/JVC RS67 so I would still have some money leftover monthly to spend freely on non-essential things.

Thanks!
Edited by BigCoolJesus - 1/3/14 at 7:50pm
post #5740 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

If I can figure out a way to mount this Planar 8130, I would probably use it for most 2D since it's fairly bright @ 900+ lumens and the clarity / color is excellent. Then the 30K for 3D and the 1000 for critical 2D blurays + UHD movies. 2014 is the year of the 3 projector setup.... biggrin.gif

The problem with the Planar is the ridiculous throw distance... I need about 22 feet from the 142" which I can do with a ceiling mount but my new rack setup will block it so that may be out of the running.

@ BCJ - this might be a hard sell, especially if you were ok with the light output of the HW30 which is about on par with the RS56. One major benefit of the 600 is the lumen output. nearly 1000 in low lamp and 1600 in high lamp, so it can really light up a nice size screen. This is great for ambient light viewing or even for those that like a bright image.

if you didn't need the light or have an interest in it's 3D (which is quite good, better than the 56's imo) then it might make more sense to go with the JVC.

Well Zombie,
Since you can't (easily) mount the Planar, which projector are you using to watch "day to day" 2D (assuming you have time to watch anything, when you are not testing something for all of us)? biggrin.gif
post #5741 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View PostIf I am considering the 600ES, should I just up the ante and look at the JVC RS57 or RS67 instead of the RS56? Should I finally do what I never have before and get the "best of the best"?
My whole concern has been "How much of an improvement will I see upgrading from the HW30ES to *insert model here*....since I am upgrading and spending the money, should I just go for the top so I know there will be drastic improvement?

Further clarification on what I am hoping to gain from upgrading my Sony HW30ES: better 2D calibrated picture quality (I always want the best reference picture possible), higher light output without having to use High lamp mode (had to switch my 30ES to high mode after 300 hours of use), sharper image, better blacks, native 4k support to have some sort of "future proof", and that overall "pop" factor a properly calibrated picture can have when all the settings (including light output) are perfect for a given setup.
Knowing my screen is rather large and a long throw distance, weighing each of these categories against one and other.....what price vs. performance recommendation would you make? Should I cut the JVC RS56 out of the equation and just make it come down to the Sony 600ES vs. JVC RS57/67? If so, how would your impressions of Sony vs. JVC change if it is the 600ES vs. the RS67 or even the RS57?

***As far as price vs. performance, I know each person has their own definition of what is too much $$$ to spend, so to try to put you in my shoes when making a recommendation to me based on price vs. performance, here is my "comfort" range of spending: ~$5000 would be "comfortable" spending (so the JVC RS56), in that I could buy a projector for that price and still have extra money from each paycheck of mine to spend on other non-essential things if need be. ~$10000 would be the absolute limit (so the Sony 600ES or JVC RS67), spending this much money on a projector would mean I would only be able to pay for essential things (bills, food, etc) for at least 6-8 months with little money left over to spend on non-essential things. The JVC RS57 would fall in the middle of these two extremes, higher than my "comfortable" spending of the JVC RS56 but less than my upper limit of the Sony 600ES/JVC RS67 so I would still have some money leftover monthly to spend freely on non-essential things.

Thanks!

Well if it were me I would just save just so I am not stretch to the limit.  What if BCJ forbid, something bad were to happen and then what! This is non essential I would not risk being in a financial conendrum for a projector or any other material stuff!

post #5742 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Well if it were me I would just save just so I am not stretch to the limit.  What if BCJ forbid, something bad were to happen and then what! This is non essential I would not risk being in a financial conendrum for a projector or any other material stuff!

I agree. BCJ, I wouldn't put out for a projector that will push you to the edge. What's really impressive today is not the pic that you can get for $25,000, but how good it can be for $3000. Sure, the former is better, but really not THAT much better!
post #5743 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Well if it were me I would just save just so I am not stretch to the limit.  What if BCJ forbid, something bad were to happen and then what! This is non essential I would not risk being in a financial conendrum for a projector or any other material stuff!

Just to be clear: my financial situation/example I posted includes having enough money left over from my purchase to also cover unexpected expenses, regardless if I went up to $10k for the 600ES/RS67. I never spend so much as to not have a reserve for emergencies. And the main reason I am even upgrading from my HW30ES is because of a windfall of money (some from Fantasy Football, some from a royalty check from my grand parents).

Basically, I can afford up to the 600ES/RS67 if it's worth it compared to the less expensive models. And by worth it I mean a noticeable performance increase to justify the cost. If that makes sense.
Edited by BigCoolJesus - 1/3/14 at 10:23pm
post #5744 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I agree. BCJ, I wouldn't put out for a projector that will push you to the edge. What's really impressive today is not the pic that you can get for $25,000, but how good it can be for $3000. Sure, the former is better, but really not THAT much better!

Even the under $1,000 projectors are pretty amazing. We tend to lose our perspective here and buy into the hype of those rationalizing their $10,000 to $25,000 purchases. I've spent a considerable amount of money on projector purchases in the past only to find that rather rapid changes and improvements left my equipment obsolete and virtually worthless from a resale point of view after a year or two. What's hot today is forgotten in a couple of years when the attention shifts to the latest and greatest. I've promised myself that I will stick to the under $5,000 projectors -- O.K. maybe I'll buy a couple of those, but then again I enjoy playing with new equipment and I'm fortunate to be in a position to be able to do this.

If anyone here thinks that the Sony or JVCs are the best of the best I believe there are some owners of other projectors in the over $20,000 forum that will take exception to that notion.
Edited by Deja Vu - 1/3/14 at 8:57pm
post #5745 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Just to be clear: my financial situation/example I posted includes having enough money left over from my purchase to also cover unexpected expenses, regardless if I went up to $10k for the 600ES/RS67. I never spend so much as to not have a reserve for emergencies. And the main reason I am even upgrading from my HW30ES is because of a windfall of money (some from Fantasy Football, some from a royalty check from my grand parents).

Basically, I can afford up to the 600ES/RS67 if it's worth it compared to the less expensive models. And by worth it I mean a noticeable performance increase to justify the cost. If that makes sense.

I would just be careful not to solely base a purchase of this magnitude based on another person's opinion. No one provides more facts than zombie does and his opinion is as neutral and as detailed as there is. However, I would be careful asking another if it worth upgrading from projector A to proijector B.
Edited by xb1032 - 1/4/14 at 9:15am
post #5746 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Who said he was making his purchase based on any one persons opinion? Like many others he's looking for information to help make a decision.

This started as an hw30 -> rs56 upgrade discussion and the 600 was mentioned.

it is a big expense and wouldn't likely make sense in this scenario. Since 2d bd was a main interest, I think most would agree going from an hw30 to an rs56 could be seen as an upgrade.
post #5747 of 8005
You survived the hot tub. Did the tablet float and is it still working?

When I went to bed last night, my wife woke up and saw a look if concern on my face. She said what's wrong. I said Zombie10K thinks he is Ben Franklin.
Edited by mark haflich - 1/4/14 at 5:52am
post #5748 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Who said he was making his purchase based on any one persons opinion? Like many others he's looking for information to help make a decision.

This started as an hw30 -> rs56 upgrade discussion and the 600 was mentioned.

it is a big expense and wouldn't likely make sense in this scenario. Since 2d bd was a main interest, I think most would agree going from an hw30 to an rs56 could be seen as an upgrade.

How about this:I cut out the 600ES and RS67 from my decision and narrow it down between the RS56 (for $4700), the RS57 (for around $6500 after dealer discount), or the HW55ES (for around $3500 after dealer discount). What would be your opinion between these three choices? All three of them are in my "price" range (wouldn't be stretching myself thin to purchase or regretting spending the money) and all three are obviously an upgrade. But which one would be the most well rounded upgrade?

If I had to clarify my wants during this upgrade for picture quality, here they are in order of importance:
1) Better black levels
2) Brighter calibrated picture so I can use low lamp mode longer
3) Better overall contrast WITHOUT using DI
4) "Pop" factor/sharpness to the picture (when calibrated) so it doesn't look dull or "flat"
5) Longer lamp life and quality (won't dim quickly over time)

In terms of 3D:
I am very willing to start using 3D again, in limited fashion, as long as said projector has RF 3D built-in/included and the standard 3D glasses work fine....I do not want to have to worry about going the MonsterVision/Optoma route again like I did with HW30ES. Just want to be able to use 3D right off the bat without any extra spending if I have a friend or two over who wants to watch it. Not saying I will use it often, so 3D isn't a major deciding factor, but if it helps push a tie-breaker decision in one direction, so be it.

Thanks guys, been really helpful. I am going to my dealer later today to get final quoted prices on all of these models so I am ready depending on my decision.
post #5749 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

You survived the hot tub. Did the tablet float and is it still working?

When I went to bed last night, my wife woke up and saw a look if concern on my face. She said what's wrong. I said Zombie10K thinks he is Ben Franklin.

I was going for a world record then the power went out when it's 2 degrees outside. The tablet froze but I was able to thaw it out on the Franklin stove I have in the HT. thankfully it runs off natural gas and requires no electricity.

the good news is the Sony (tablet) is no baloney and survived the entire incident without a scratch. biggrin.gifcool.gif

ps. it does not float but it is watertight, just make sure all the USB covers are snapped in place. j/k mike !!
post #5750 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

How about this:I cut out the 600ES and RS67 from my decision and narrow it down between the RS56 (for $4700), the RS57 (for around $6500 after dealer discount), or the HW55ES (for around $3500 after dealer discount). What would be your opinion between these three choices? All three of them are in my "price" range (wouldn't be stretching myself thin to purchase or regretting spending the money) and all three are obviously an upgrade. But which one would be the most well rounded upgrade?

If I had to clarify my wants during this upgrade for picture quality, here they are in order of importance:
1) Better black levels
2) Brighter calibrated picture so I can use low lamp mode longer
3) Better overall contrast WITHOUT using DI
4) "Pop" factor/sharpness to the picture (when calibrated) so it doesn't look dull or "flat"
5) Longer lamp life and quality (won't dim quickly over time)

Are you able to see the HW55 in person? it does have better blacks and is brighter than the HW30 but you have to decide if reality creation is something you like as it's the real main update to the HW30. the lens are the same between the 30/50/55 so the RC gives the impression of a sharper image at a cost. the cost is seeing increased background noise in certain BD content even at it's lowest setting. if you read around, some owners actually turn it off with certain movies as it can be a bit distracting.

I would probably consider the new 4910 over the RS56 mainly because of the iris / dynamic gamma. It works surprisingly well and looks excellent in low APL scenes in a way that the Sony will not be able to reproduce since it has less native contrast and it's iris simply doesn't do much in these in these scenes by comparison. The JVC's are also more 'naturally' sharp than the 50/55. So even if you don't want to use e-shift (imo it's better than RC, more subtle and handles background noise better) it still looks sharper on a large screen when comparing both with no image processing.

3D lumen output will be about equal and the new JVC's have CFI in 3D now, so this levels the playing field in this area.
post #5751 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

How about this:I cut out the 600ES and RS67 from my decision and narrow it down between the RS56 (for $4700), the RS57 (for around $6500 after dealer discount), or the HW55ES (for around $3500 after dealer discount). What would be your opinion between these three choices? All three of them are in my "price" range (wouldn't be stretching myself thin to purchase or regretting spending the money) and all three are obviously an upgrade. But which one would be the most well rounded upgrade?

If I had to clarify my wants during this upgrade for picture quality, here they are in order of importance:
1) Better black levels
2) Brighter calibrated picture so I can use low lamp mode longer
3) Better overall contrast WITHOUT using DI
4) "Pop" factor/sharpness to the picture (when calibrated) so it doesn't look dull or "flat"
5) Longer lamp life and quality (won't dim quickly over time)

In terms of 3D:
I am very willing to start using 3D again, in limited fashion, as long as said projector has RF 3D built-in/included and the standard 3D glasses work fine....I do not want to have to worry about going the MonsterVision/Optoma route again like I did with HW30ES. Just want to be able to use 3D right off the bat without any extra spending if I have a friend or two over who wants to watch it. Not saying I will use it often, so 3D isn't a major deciding factor, but if it helps push a tie-breaker decision in one direction, so be it.

Thanks guys, been really helpful. I am going to my dealer later today to get final quoted prices on all of these models so I am ready depending on my decision.

Since you mention 'better black levels' as your #1 desire, I would think that one of the JVC's would be the choice for you.
post #5752 of 8005
Thread Starter 
JVC RS57 vs. Sony VW600 iris torture test round 2

2014-shootout-6.jpg

I took Jon's advice and instead of clamping down the iris on the 600 to match the 57's low lamp lumen output, I ran the 57 in high lamp which is closer to the lumen output of the Sony in it's low lamp mode. There is now more 'pop' in the scenes I described earlier when comparing direct A/B + split source.

so I wanted to take a closer look at some iris torture scenes now that Manni pointed out the 29:00 marker in the original spiderman.

Taking a look at Oblivion starting at the 54:00 timeline. This is when he is captured and interrogated by Morgan Freeman's character. For illustration, these are BD screen grabs, not screenshots of either projector.

Let start with this.. Auto iris 1 *will* crush the details in this scene, there is little you can do about it with the built in settings. Auto iris 2 is much better and you can clearly see his faintly lit hand. iris position is identical in both iris modes, this is obliviously a difference in the dynamic gamma setting

2014-shootout-14.jpg

2014-shootout-15.jpg

This scene goes back and forth a few times between a very low APL scene and the scene with TC tied up in the chair. These transitions are long enough where not only does the iris position change (lowest manual setting in the TC scene to a pinhole in the MF scene) but you can also see the gamma 'settle in' when transitioning occurs. I wouldn't say it's distracting, but you can definitely see something is happening that takes a bit to 'kick in' if you watch this clip a few times.

in comparison, the 600 has no chance of keeping up with the 57 in the MF scene. I tried a number of different gamma tweaks, iris positions, this simply a case where the killer native contrast is out-muscling the Sony by a fair margin. This shouldn't surprise anyone. i'll have to see if the higher native on the 1000 makes up some of the difference between the 57 and 600.

obviously this is a microscopic test and should not be taken out of context as both projectors look amazing and each have their own unique strengths.

I really like what JVC has done here for a first attempt with a DI. If I didn't already have a bunch of other projectors here, I would likely swap out the 55 for the 57 since I am sci-fi fan and movies like matrix, underworld, etc are going to look amazing for black level fiends on the 57 thanks to this iris / dynamic gamma system.

I guess the only downfall is that I would likely be running the 57 in high lamp and it is definitely louder in high lamp vs. the Sony in low lamp. in low lamp, they are nearly equal but the Sony has a 300+ lumen advantage.

so once again, we look at the JVC's and Sony's and wishing there was a way to combine the best of both feature sets into 1 projector.
post #5753 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Are you able to see the HW55 in person? it does have better blacks and is brighter than the HW30 but you have to decide if reality creation is something you like as it's the real main update to the HW30. the lens are the same between the 30/50/55 so the RC gives the impression of a sharper image at a cost. the cost is seeing increased background noise in certain BD content even at it's lowest setting. if you read around, some owners actually turn it off with certain movies as it can be a bit distracting.

I would probably consider the new 4910 over the RS56 mainly because of the iris / dynamic gamma. It works surprisingly well and looks excellent in low APL scenes in a way that the Sony will not be able to reproduce since it has less native contrast and it's iris simply doesn't do much in these in these scenes by comparison. The JVC's are also more 'naturally' sharp than the 50/55. So even if you don't want to use e-shift (imo it's better than RC, more subtle and handles background noise better) it still looks sharper on a large screen when comparing both with no image processing.

3D lumen output will be about equal and the new JVC's have CFI in 3D now, so this levels the playing field in this area.

I have not seen the HW55ES in person yet...my dealer had one in stock and was in the middle of mounting it when someone came in and bought it right on the spot, so he is waiting to get another to put up. He also doesn't carry JVC at the moment (can order them but doesn't have room to mount one). His top sales guy (the one I use who is always down to earth when it comes to me spending my money, he will tell me outright if I am spending too much for little to no gain) saw JVC at CEDIA and loved what he saw in their viewing environment for this years models. I have seen the HW50ES in person at my dealer back in the summer...but I felt like, in the viewing situation, I didn't see much difference between my HW30ES (I wasn't "floored" by a noticeable difference). However, we all know comparing video in a store vs. what we have calibrated at home is apples to oranges.

In terms of JVC, if I am only focusing on this years models (RS49, RS57, RS67), what is your honest opinion on price vs. performance as you jump from one model to the next? Is the RS49 the sweet "bang for your buck" spot or does jumping to the RS57 still give noticeable improvement in base contrast/light output, clarity, and lens quality? I have to ask because, from looking at the specs on JVC, it seems the RS57 is a step above the RS49 by a good amount: 60,000:1 Native for RS49 vs. 120,000:1 for the RS57. Same goes for Dynamic Contrast: the RS57 is twice as high as the RS49. What gives?

Also, what is the difference between the RS49 and RS4910?

Again, Really appreciate your input so far. Looks like I am getting closer to narrowing down my options, cutting out the RS56 and 600ES.....still keeping the RS67 alive if it would really bring something substantial to the table, otherwise it seems to be between the HW55ES, RS49, and RS57. Thanks!
Edited by BigCoolJesus - 1/4/14 at 9:56am
post #5754 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Even the under $1,000 projectors are pretty amazing. We tend to lose our perspective here and buy into the hype of those rationalizing their $10,000 to $25,000 purchases. I've spent a considerable amount of money on projector purchases in the past only to find that rather rapid changes and improvements left my equipment obsolete and virtually worthless from a resale point of view after a year or two. What's hot today is forgotten in a couple of years when the attention shifts to the latest and greatest. I've promised myself that I will stick to the under $5,000 projectors -- O.K. maybe I'll buy a couple of those, but then again I enjoy playing with new equipment and I'm fortunate to be in a position to be able to do this.

If anyone here thinks that the Sony or JVCs are the best of the best I believe there are some owners of other projectors in the over $20,000 forum that will take exception to that notion.

I could not agree more I bought one of the first Pioneer Elite Plasma TV 12 years ago it was $20,000 that was ridiculously expensive and only 720p! I also had a SELECO SIM2 300 HD that was over, $10,000 and it only worked for two years before breaking down. Value of those today probably $100 if that rolleyes.gif

So I also have set the limit to less than $5,000 for projectors,

At least speakers and amplifiers can last 20 years or more try that with projectors, or processors!
post #5755 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Who said he was making his purchase based on any one persons opinion? Like many others he's looking for information to help make a decision.

This started as an hw30 -> rs56 upgrade discussion and the 600 was mentioned.

it is a big expense and wouldn't likely make sense in this scenario. Since 2d bd was a main interest, I think most would agree going from an hw30 to an rs56 could be seen as an upgrade.

To answer your question, no one said that. When I saw his posts go from upgrading to a JVC to spending twice as much as the JVC (which you had nothing to do with), a caution flag arose in my head. I was simply saying be careful when it comes to purchasing an item of this expense based on another person's thoughts. Zombie, you're a great asset to AVS no doubt. You provide details and comparisons that can't even be gathered from professional reviewer sites and you also make most of us feel at ease knowing you will provide the information unbiased.

And yes, I agree the HW30 to a JVC would be an upgrade. If black levels are the most important thing I would pick a JVC over the Sony 50/ (I've not seen the 55 or the upper end Sony models). Last year I read at least one professional reviewer that believed the JVC RS-45 could not get black levels as deep as the Sony and Epsons but when I had both the HW50 and me the JVC and the Sony in my home I saw otherwise when the JVC's iris was clamped down (at least on my HP 2.4 gain screen).
post #5756 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

I could not agree more I bought one of the first Pioneer Elite Plasma TV 12 years ago it was $20,000 that was ridiculously expensive and only 720p! I also had a SELECO SIM2 300 HD that was over, $10,000 and it only worked for two years before breaking down. Value of those today probably $100 if that rolleyes.gif

So I also have set the limit to less than $5,000 for projectors,

At least speakers and amplifiers can last 20 years or more try that with projectors, or processors!

Ditto. And after seeing OLED, I suspect the $15,000 to $25,000 (or more) projectors may appear to offer relatively small upgrades in picture quality compared to the $3,000-$5,000 units. OLED picture quality rocks, with virtually unlimited contrast and excellent color. Of course, I haven't seen the new pj's, so I might change that tune, but I doubt it.
post #5757 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

JVC RS 57 vs. Sony VW600 first look



I was checking levels using the AVS HD Calibration disk and I happened to notice how much clearer the main menu page looked on the Sony vs. the JVC. Both are using their default scaling/sharpening methods in these photos. it's hard to get the context from the photos, but it's definitely noticeable in person. The Sony looks really nice with this kind of scaling.

2014-shootout-9.jpg

2014-shootout-10.jpg

In a scene like this (BD screen grab from disk), the Sony feels like the image could be higher res than 1080P with great detail in the facial features. The JVC looks a bit softer but still looks very good. The caveat here is while the RC can out-gun e-shift in certain scenes, the e-shift will have an advantage with older films like the original spiderman which is grainy and the e-shift can mask the grain better than the RC.


I have been meaning to ask you about this, but keep forgetting. This picture above illustrates beautifully what I was trying to describe as far a the general through the window type effect, clarity, resolution and sharpness difference between the JVCs and Sony 600 that I observed at Cedia with good source material like Oblivion (I saw Spiderman which also looked excellent). This to me was a significant difference in favor of the Sony as this higher res look just gave the image a next level feel vs the softer (in comparison) eshifted JVC. The pictures above capture this perfectly, and from your comments it sounds like you can easily see this with a good real world source like Oblivion. My question is in your opinion, is this difference mainly due to a native 4k panel vs 4k lite eshift or something else (lens, RC, etc.......)? I was amazed at how the Sony even with being blown up bigger to 13' wide still had a noticeable advantage in this area vs the smaller 11' wide JVC image. Even going from a 7' wide image to a 9' wide image in my setup I can see a general hit to perceived resolution and sharpness, so the fact that the Sony not only looked better in this area, but also looked better throwing a considerably bigger image was very impressive to me. Throw in the better brightness as well, and this to me was a significant advantage for the Sony. I take it from your comments that you can see this clarity/resolution/sharpness difference easily between the Sony and JVC with a good real world source like Oblivion when doing an A/B?
post #5758 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

JVC RS57 vs. Sony VW600 iris torture test round 2
I really like what JVC has done here for a first attempt with a DI. If I didn't already have a bunch of other projectors here, I would likely swap out the 55 for the 57 since I am sci-fi fan and movies like matrix, underworld, etc are going to look amazing for black level fiends on the 57 thanks to this iris / dynamic gamma system.

I guess the only downfall is that I would likely be running the 57 in high lamp and it is definitely louder in high lamp vs. the Sony in low lamp. in low lamp, they are nearly equal but the Sony has a 300+ lumen advantage.

Based on the fan noise numbers I posted in the 2014-JVC thread, the noise should be very low in high mode (lower than last year's low mode). I wonder if the RS57 runs hotter/louder than the X500 they tested. I assume you had high-altitude mode disabled.

I also noticed comments in the German forums about color temperature shifts towards red from 6500 to 5500 when DI is enabled (visible in dark scenes). Did you notice any color change?
post #5759 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Toe - the problem with that specific test is that it makes it looks worse than it is vs. watching video content. when you look at Oblivion A/B, they both look closer in overall sharpness than that test would indicate. I spent hours looking at e-shift vs. RC and can find elements of both I like / dislike, so this is a tough call overall. now if you run a 3840x 2160 PC desktop or look at high quality UHD / 4K content, it's easier to see the constraints of the 1080P vs. 4K panels.

wizziwig - I didn't mean to infer that it's 'loud' just that walking within a few feet of the projector, I definitely knew it was in high lamp. I would say the tone is a bit different this year if anything. I have a friend's X35 here and will stack them to give some kind of reference between the 2 in high lamp.

I would still say the 600 in high lamp is a bit quieter than the JVC. The 1000 is practically silent in high lamp vs. both other models. This makes sense to me since they are likely using larger fans in this massive case.

thanks for posting those judder tests. once the dusts settles I'll take a look at them on the 30K in 3D.
post #5760 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post



In terms of JVC, if I am only focusing on this years models (RS49, RS57, RS67), what is your honest opinion on price vs. performance as you jump from one model to the next? Is the RS49 the sweet "bang for your buck" spot or does jumping to the RS57 still give noticeable improvement in base contrast/light output, clarity, and lens quality? I have to ask because, from looking at the specs on JVC, it seems the RS57 is a step above the RS49 by a good amount: 60,000:1 Native for RS49 vs. 120,000:1 for the RS57. Same goes for Dynamic Contrast: the RS57 is twice as high as the RS49. What gives?

I haven't seen the 49 yet so I can't comment on the real world contrast differences we would see if we compared the 49 to the 57. Going from the HW30 (I owned one for a year+) -> RS57 would definitely be a nice upgrade imo. In a light controlled room, you should easily be able to see the difference in contrast. It would also appear noticeably sharper on a 133".

The difference between the 49 and 4910 I believe is an extra year warranty and a general QC check before it's shipped.

if you decide on the JVC's, I would wait a few days for JVC to respond to the various HDMI issues that were reported. It will likely be fixed with a firmware update but we should hear about it soon.
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