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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 219

post #6541 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I have a 4910 here that looks very good out of the box, nothing has changed over the last 50 hours or so. Did he definitely have it focused correctly? I turn off the image pattern which allows for a clean focus once you turn off e-shift. it seems impossible to focus it correctly otherwise. They should still fix this in a firmware update since this workaround doesn't help when trying to adjust the convergence (e-shift is stuck on)

Focus was set correctly an he has not toched it after our test, the owner does not understand what has happened??
post #6542 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

There had to be something wrong with the photos or focus on the X500. No way a decent X500 looks that soft. My 4810 looks a heck of a lot better than the softness in those pics. The (4910) should too.

I was there and I saw the difference with my own eyes, but now it has changed. I will see it with my own eyes on thursday...
post #6543 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

So, personally, I think that he has been threatened by a JVC fanboy, so now dare he quite simply does not conclude otherwise, for fear of reprisals wink.gif



biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif ( its a joke !, so dont get upset tongue.gif )


dj

Maby, he had a JVC fanboy on a small visit during the weekend...eek.gif

But seriously the changes on the JVC has made my friend very confused and I am sorry for posting the pictures earlier in the tread.

I hope JVC has the finacial muscles (I have heard they are pressed) to launch a 4K model soon with at least 2000 lumens, because I think it will blow the VW1000 away.smile.gif
post #6544 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post


Maby, he had a JVC fanboy on a small visit during the weekend...eek.gif

But seriously the changes on the JVC has made my friend very confused and I am sorry for posting the pictures earlier in the tread.

I hope JVC has the finacial muscles (I have heard they are pressed) to launch a 4K model soon with at least 2000 lumens, because I think it will blow the VW1000 away.smile.gif

Well that's cool, now your friend has his unit performing properly ^^

 

So now do you still think the Sony fed 1080p will look better than the JVC fed 4k ? 

post #6545 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

I was there and I saw the difference with my own eyes, but now it has changed. I will see it with my own eyes on thursday...

OK please accept apology I missed reading that. My bad.
post #6546 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaal View Post

Well that's cool, now your friend has his unit performing properly ^^

So now do you still think the Sony fed 1080p will look better than the JVC fed 4k ? 

I have not seen the JVC with 4K, but if what I read is correct the JVC does not look very different with 4K native and I will see on thursday when we will test with 4K native.
Edited by Andreas21 - 2/10/14 at 12:14am
post #6547 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

Yes, according to my friend the settings is the same on both projectors in this second comparison, the only difference is a couple of hours more on the VW1000 and about 25 more on the X500. The VW1000 looks excactly the same, the X500 looks quite a bit better when it comes to sharpness. When we tested 1080p side by side the JVC looked abit soft compared to the Sony when testing BD´s like Oblivion, and alot softer when comparing the LG clip showed in the screenshots I posted some days ago. Now the difference in sharpness is not like it was and the X500 is very close to the VW1000 according to my friend.

Andreas21...when you guys do the comparison testing can you also make note of the viewing ratio( screen width to viewing distance). For folks sitting between 1.5 and 1.9 screen widths away it would be interesting how things look with a 4K moving image both on the Sony and the JVC. I'm sure under 1.5 the difference will be evident , but curious 1.5 and greater. Thanks.
post #6548 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

I have not seen the JVC with 4K, but if what I read is correct the JVC does not look very different with 4K native and I will see on thursday when we will test with 4K native.

The JVC should only look "slightly" better when fed native 4K content vs 2K as it only has 2K panels. e-Shift can only do so much to a native 4K signal. There will just be more data for it to work with, but it's still downscaled to 2K. At least this is what my brain tells me will happen. tongue.gif
post #6549 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

No, region 2. I'd bought the regions-mod option for my Oppo. Glad I did, as I have a bunch of titles only available from other regions.

Actually It is region free even though it is listed as region 2. I bout Micro Monsters 3d, Flying Monsters 3D and Galapgos 3D all from Amazon UK. It took about 10 days to arrive and the prices were much lower even with exchange rates.
post #6550 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

Actually It is region free even though it is listed as region 2. I bout Micro Monsters 3d, Flying Monsters 3D and Galapgos 3D all from Amazon UK. It took about 10 days to arrive and the prices were much lower even with exchange rates.

Are all of those region free?
post #6551 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

The JVC should only look "slightly" better when fed native 4K content vs 2K as it only has 2K panels. e-Shift can only do so much to a native 4K signal. There will just be more data for it to work with, but it's still downscaled to 2K. At least this is what my brain tells me will happen. tongue.gif

Each frame is displayed in two 1920 x 1080 fields taken from a 3840 x2160 frame , thus JVC's e-shift displays each 4k frame with 4,147,200 pixels instead of 2,073,600 (which is the JVC chips native resolution.)
post #6552 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Are all of those region free?

Yes, I was surprised when I received them from Amazon UK. I though I would have to use a region free player or convert them.
post #6553 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

Yes, I was surprised when I received them from Amazon UK. I though I would have to use a region free player or convert them.


That is excellent. Thanks for the heads up. cool.gif
post #6554 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post


The JVC should only look "slightly" better when fed native 4K content vs 2K as it only has 2K panels. e-Shift can only do so much to a native 4K signal. There will just be more data for it to work with, but it's still downscaled to 2K. At least this is what my brain tells me will happen. tongue.gif

 

Not exactly. These JVC still show a UHD numbers of pixels (3840 x2160), but since they take only 2 1080p frames from a UHD source frame half of the picture information will be missing compared to the UHD source. (UHD is four times Full HD).

 

Compared to the Sony fed only 1080p, the JVC should display twice a much picture information on the UHD result. Then again, the Sony has better contrast / brightness / optics... maybe software. I still think the JVC might come up slightly better, but let's wait for Andreas21's impression.

post #6555 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

Each frame is displayed in two 1920 x 1080 fields taken from a 3840 x2160 frame , thus JVC's e-shift displays each 4k frame with 4,147,200 pixels instead of 2,073,600 (which is the JVC chips native resolution.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaal View Post

Not exactly. These JVC still show a UHD numbers of pixels (3840 x2160), but since they take only 2 1080p frames from a UHD source frame half of the picture information will be missing compared to the UHD source. (UHD is four times Full HD).

Compared to the Sony fed only 1080p, the JVC should display twice a much picture information on the UHD result. Then again, the Sony has better contrast / brightness / optics... maybe software. I still think the JVC might come up slightly better, but let's wait for Andreas21's impression.

Well that makes sense. So do you think it would be about a 25-50% improvement in resolution when fed a native 4K signal?
post #6556 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post



Well that makes sense. So do you think it would be about a 25-50% improvement in resolution when fed a native 4K signal?

Yes a 4k source even if half the information is lost, it is still twice as much as the usual 1080p so it should be easy to see an improvement, it should "feel" much sharper for various reasons including how the eye perceive details when going in the 2.5k - 3k range.

post #6557 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaal View Post

Yes a 4k source even if half the information is lost, it is still twice as much as the usual 1080p so it should be easy to see an improvement, it should "feel" much sharper for various reasons including how the eye perceive details when going in the 2.5k - 3k range.

Saweeeet!!! I can't imagine how good that would look, but I'm ready to buy my first 4K BD to test it out. biggrin.gif

My Oppo 103D upscaling to 4K & applying Darbee processing, and then JVC applying e-Shift 3 creates one helluvah image. I can't imagine it being much better as it's already like staring through a giant window on my wall. I'll take what improvements I can get though. And it's nice to have something to look forward to...
post #6558 of 8033
Zombie
Since you have calibrated a few Epsons I was wondering if you can give me a few recommendations.
I have been fiddling around with all the different picture modes on the Epson 6030 to see if I can find something good that I can live with ( OOTB). I find that I like the living room mode best. ProjectorCentrals review also said that Living room mode was close to a calibration if you turn down the color temp from 3 to 1 in high lamp mode. The problem is the fan noise is quite loud in high lamp and if I use low lamp with Living room mode the lumen output is quite good but the colors change. So my question is short of calibrating can you recommend decent settings for color temp,skin tone and color saturation that will look close to a calibration using Living room mode with low lamp or is it not possible.
Thanks
Joe
post #6559 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post


Well that makes sense. So do you think it would be about a 25-50% improvement in resolution when fed a native 4K signal?

I am betting that at some distances(viewing from1.5/1.8 screen and beyond) the difference with a 4k input, the JVC and the Sony will be hard to tell apart with a moving image.
post #6560 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

Saweeeet!!! I can't imagine how good that would look, but I'm ready to buy my first 4K BD to test it out. biggrin.gif

Don't get your hopes up about playing a 4K BD on your JVC projector. The 4K input for this year's JVC projectors isn't a "final spec" 4K input - it will allow non-copywritten material to pass through, but is unlikely to
work for the upcoming 4K BDs because of their copywrite specs. The Sony 4K projectors have newer HDMI 4K inputs that will allow copywrite BD-type material to play when it comes out, but even then the final specifications
for 4K (including 4K blu-ray) are not confirmed, and this year's Sony projectors might not be able to fully take advantage of the full 4K specs, without some sort of upgrade. As I understand it, anyway. (This is one reason
I didn't buy a Sony this year: I'm waiting for the 4K specs and hardware to be finalised before buying true 4K).
post #6561 of 8033
No HDCP 2.2 no 4K BD, I am sorry.wink.gif
post #6562 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

I am betting that at some distances(viewing from1.5/1.8 screen and beyond) the difference with a 4k input, the JVC and the Sony will be hard to tell apart with a moving image.

Maybe Andreas will test this out for us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Don't get your hopes up about playing a 4K BD on your JVC projector. The 4K input for this year's JVC projectors isn't a "final spec" 4K input - it will allow non-copywritten material to pass through, but is unlikely to
work for the upcoming 4K BDs because of their copywrite specs. The Sony 4K projectors have newer HDMI 4K inputs that will allow copywrite BD-type material to play when it comes out, but even then the final specifications
for 4K (including 4K blu-ray) are not confirmed, and this year's Sony projectors might not be able to fully take advantage of the full 4K specs, without some sort of upgrade. As I understand it, anyway. (This is one reason
I didn't buy a Sony this year: I'm waiting for the 4K specs and hardware to be finalised before buying true 4K).

Well then, I guess I'll just have to wait a few more years until I upgrade again. Good thing I don't care about 4K that much. I'm perfectly satisfied with my X700 playing upscaled 2K/pseudo 4K content. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

No HDCP 2.2 no 4K BD, I am sorry.wink.gif

Oh well, first world probs. wink.gif
post #6563 of 8033

While I completely realize that the whole chain, hardware, content, media, HDMI and HDCP standards, is tailored mostly for / by Sony, I have seen nowhere in the HDCP 2.2 specs white paper, any HDMI 2.0 requirement (In fact I think it was made with HDMI 1.4 in mind but no only, there are multiple options). If I missed something in the HDCP 2.2 white paper specs PDF please tell me.

 

Now I also wonder if we could see some HDCP update for JVC as well, after all they have a beefed up HDMI 1.4 that have very similar specs to Sony's not full blown HDMI 2.0 (I mean it's not the proper 18 gbps version).

 

Second thing is, will future 4K content be protected only exclusively with HDCP 2.2 or will they also have a "fall back to previous HDCP version " for some customers that did not upgrade their displays recently ?

post #6564 of 8033
I have watched a few 4K mastered movies, very sharp. Seems to be a real improvement. I can only imagine that true 4K must be mind blowing.
post #6565 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaal View Post

While I completely realize that the whole chain, hardware, content, media, HDMI and HDCP standards, is tailored mostly for / by Sony, I have seen nowhere in the HDCP 2.2 specs white paper, any HDMI 2.0 requirement (In fact I think it was made with HDMI 1.4 in mind but no only, there are multiple options). If I missed something in the HDCP 2.2 white paper specs PDF please tell me.

Now I also wonder if we could see some HDCP update for JVC as well, after all they have a beefed up HDMI 1.4 that have very similar specs to Sony's not full blown HDMI 2.0 (I mean it's not the proper 18 gbps version).

Second thing is, will future 4K content be protected only exclusively with HDCP 2.2 or will they also have a "fall back to previous HDCP version " for some customers that did not upgrade their displays?

Somehow, we will be able to play any 4k BD with a HTPC or anyother devices. If 4K blu rays look as good as the MI4K disc, I think these JVCs will make people hold out for awhile
post #6566 of 8033
Here's AVForms review of the JVC 500 for those that haven't seen it.

http://www.avforums.com/review/jvc-x500-dla-x500-3d-d-ila-projector-review.9922

Both 2D and 3D got a 10/10. Overall this projector was given a score of 9/10 -- the same as the HD91; however, this review reads very differently than the review about the Optoma. Steve Withers claims the DI is absolutely pointless since the projector has great contrast and doesn't need any help (he kept the DI off, although he did give it a try). Supposedly this non-DLP projector has zero, let me repeat that -- zero cross-talk or ghosting. If this is so, then this is arguably the projector for me.
post #6567 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Here's AVForms review of the JVC 500 for those that haven't seen it.

http://www.avforums.com/review/jvc-x500-dla-x500-3d-d-ila-projector-review.9922

Both 2D and 3D got a 10/10. Overall this projector was given a score of 9/10 -- the same as the HD91; however, this review reads very differently than the review about the Optoma. Steve Withers claims the DI is absolutely pointless since the projector has great contrast and doesn't need any help (he kept the DI off, although he did give it a try). Supposedly this non-DLP projector has zero, let me repeat that -- zero cross-talk or ghosting. If this is so, then this is arguably the projector for me.

I'll wait until we get reports about the gamma plunge problem before I think about going back to a JVC (but I hope they've addressed that issue, too). As for zero crosstalk, let me try my ghosting torture test disc on it. I wager I can spot some ghosting. biggrin.gif Still, if it can match the Epson 5030 for crosstalk (over more than a couple of hundred hours), I'll think very seriously about a JVC again. The high native contrast was a very hard thing to give up when I let my RS45 go.
post #6568 of 8033
Yeah, Avatar probably isn't the best choice for seeing cross-talk. How about Despicable Me, MvA bridge scene, Tangled lantern scene, or something along those lines.
post #6569 of 8033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Here's AVForms review of the JVC 500 for those that haven't seen it.

http://www.avforums.com/review/jvc-x500-dla-x500-3d-d-ila-projector-review.9922

Both 2D and 3D got a 10/10. Overall this projector was given a score of 9/10 -- the same as the HD91; however, this review reads very differently than the review about the Optoma. Steve Withers claims the DI is absolutely pointless since the projector has great contrast and doesn't need any help (he kept the DI off, although he did give it a try). Supposedly this non-DLP projector has zero, let me repeat that -- zero cross-talk or ghosting. If this is so, then this is arguably the projector for me.
When I used Despicable Me to demo I saw some ghosting for sure and there also was flicker with the JVC glasses and EStar Cauldron glasses BUT I didn't have much time to try different settings on the EStar glasses and wasn't sure if CMD was on so it may be able to be improved. Avatar 3D will play almost perfect on my RS 45 too.
post #6570 of 8033
Yes, Despicable Me and MvA are good crosstalk tests for a JVC - lots of dark ghosting. My JVCs wouldn't have had much trouble with the lantern scene in Tangled. The light-on-dark ghosting wouldn't have phased them, at least not in the first couple/three hundred hours. JVC pixels go from light to dark much faster than they go from dark to light.
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