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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 31

post #901 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by toni1 View Post


Can you give precision on your viewing conditions : screen size , seeting distance and wether you saw SDE with hd content or sd contents
Room completly black, screen fixed width 200 cm wide, distance 270 cm.
I only tested Blu-ray content, ie: Avatar, Harry Potter, Sammys Aventure, etc. And in scenes like sky or other even color regions the SDE was clearly pronounced. And my current Panasonic 900 is much better in this regard.
Maybe this is what some refer as digital look of LCD?
post #902 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post


Off topic -- I increased the screen size to 160 for my 120 screen in the Oppo's menu and things are really popping! biggrin.gif No eye strain experienced as yet.

This is really interesting DV. Can you expand on your impressions (before and after), to help better understand net effect?

Thanks! biggrin.gif
post #903 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I agree completely. Now if you own a JVC Rs-45, setup a 5010, owned many previous Epsons, and owned other variants of some of these projectors (sometimes 2) and A/B'd most, are you allowed to comment over an individual or reviewer that doesn't own both and hasn't A/B'd, but is making discrete comments?
(now obviously when doing so, you have to be careful and inform people of your environment)
You could almost say it is more valid (with disclosure) if you A/B'd a model close enough, then if you just looked at one after another like most reviewers do (even if they had the newer model), because in reality these projectors look very close to another from an image standpoint unless you create a very carefully crafted baseline in your mind of how to remember them (and that is not easy). To be clear, that isn't as good as doing an A/B on the exact model, and if you go back in the models too far, that will invalidate no matter what, but it is still somewhat interesting to hear about progression. It is difficult to have them all at the same time. Many people see projectors in a showroom and that counts for something, but not like having it in a room or owning it and A/B. Direct comparison (or from a baseline comparison) is really the only way when the differences are subtle. I mean I have to pause when a reviewer gets a new JVC and can't A/B it to last year's, because geeze that has to be hard to see such a small difference from memory (when using a new model over an old). Oh it's definitely possible to see a difference, but it won't equate to what the difference really was to a completely accurate assessment. Some reviewers clumsily juggle their way through this process since they do not have both on hand, when in the back of their mind they've watched so many projectors in the past year, they really cannot even remember the difference.
Yes, I had a slip of the tongue and was too hard on the Panny (and the guy posting about it, sorry there). It was simply because of the amount of frustration from people in the 7000 thread that I've listened to (and it came out in that one post from me a little harsh), I just want to make sure people are getting the best bang for their buck. The Panny response time and warranty service has been absolutely brutal to some (unless they are not telling the truth, but I assume they are).


Of course everyone is "allowed" to comment on this forum, that is their right but it doesn't mean they always should. Thus see my previous post. rolleyes.gif

post #904 of 8005
One man's perspective treasure is another man's introspective trash (no idea what that means, or maybe I do rolleyes.gif).

As a matter of perspective or introspection, I am most interested in the Mitsubishi hc8000 as a do-it-all unit, so no worries. I have little desire to discuss more, since I know about what one can expect from an updated Epson model based on Z's comments (very incremental). I do want to see the newer Sony's just for fun, mainly the vw1000 more than the hw50. For me it is also nice to know now that the Benq w7000 can actually for sure do 6x speed color wheel in dynamic mode, and if the hc8000 bombs out, it will be either an Opthd8300 or Benq I suppose to go with what I already have.

Anyhow, peace (even the battle bruised).
Edited by coderguy - 11/11/12 at 5:06pm
post #905 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

JC - the 3D ISO with the 30 and 80 patterns works perfect, thanks!!
On this HW50, out of the box, cinema 1 3D mode, grayscale was off a bit through the glasses with red and blue low.
HW50-3DCAL-1-.jpg

This really looks phenomenal Jason! You should use that as reference when you finally get your new 56. BTW - was this with or without your Darblet and are you saying you took this shot with your 3D glasses in front of your Nikon?

You really are doing some mighty fine work here and as many have said, can't wait for your JVC comparison (are you getting both a 4810 & an RS56??)

post #906 of 8005
I just had my Benq W7000. What is the pros and cons of using dynamic mode and color wheel to x6 ?is it only about RBE?
post #907 of 8005
I'm undecided between the Sony HW50 and the Mitsubishi HC8000 and I read this review:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hc8000d_full_hd_3d_projector_review.htm

Their results for 2D on the HC8000 in its best mode (Cinema):

Full-lamp: 496-626 lumens (depending on iris settings)
Eco-lamp: 359-454 lumens (depending on iris settings)

This makes the eco mode of Sony's easily brighter than Mitsubishi's full-lamp mode! Yikes. Should I be worried about this for a 100" SeymourAV screen (1.2 gain)?
post #908 of 8005
Was going to let someone answer, but it's just sitting here. It'll cost more in lamps than the Sony over time (due to brightness), but it will work.
Edited by coderguy - 11/11/12 at 8:58pm
post #909 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn View Post

I'm undecided between the Sony HW50 and the Mitsubishi HC8000 and I read this review:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hc8000d_full_hd_3d_projector_review.htm
Their results for 2D on the HC8000 in its best mode (Cinema):
Full-lamp: 496-626 lumens (depending on iris settings)
Eco-lamp: 359-454 lumens (depending on iris settings)
This makes the eco mode of Sony's easily brighter than Mitsubishi's full-lamp mode! Yikes. Should I be worried about this for a 100" SeymourAV screen (1.2 gain)?

Roughly 500+ lumens on a 1.2 gain screen is still fairly bright if your room is done properly so take that into consideration.

If you have bat cave then likely no worries but obviously we can all have a varied perspective on what is bright enough and that perspective does not always follow the 'suggested numbers', some like to tan while they watch. wink.gif

Jason
post #910 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

This really looks phenomenal Jason! You should use that as reference when you finally get your new 56. BTW - was this with or without your Darblet and are you saying you took this shot with your 3D glasses in front of your Nikon?

You really are doing some mighty fine work here and as many have said, can't wait for your JVC comparison (are you getting both a 4810 & an RS56??)


Kevin - thanks, the Avengers 3D has some great scenes for checking skin tones in 3D. This was the HW50 without the Darbee, RC resolution setting = 40 (factory is 50). That screenshot was the left eye of the 3D glasses placed right in front of the Nikon lens. I use a small 18-55 which fits great behind all the 3D glasses i've tried.

I'm trying to find the post you sent about the black tiles, was it an armstrong model #? I've had this tile sitting in the ceiling for about 3 months trying to decide. I like it but would like to see at least 1 other before deciding on 50+ to finish the room. I'll take the advice on priming first, thx.

I should see the 4810 and the 56, not certain about the 46 just yet. I'm anxious to see the e-shift 2 and start tweaking all the settings.



@ DGP - sorry not yet, I was busy calibrating the HW50 and then I put all the gear away and watched 3 movies on it. Going for a fourth tonight. I'll get back to the Epson this week.
post #911 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn View Post

I'm undecided between the Sony HW50 and the Mitsubishi HC8000 and I read this review:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hc8000d_full_hd_3d_projector_review.htm
Their results for 2D on the HC8000 in its best mode (Cinema):
Full-lamp: 496-626 lumens (depending on iris settings)
Eco-lamp: 359-454 lumens (depending on iris settings)
This makes the eco mode of Sony's easily brighter than Mitsubishi's full-lamp mode! Yikes. Should I be worried about this for a 100" SeymourAV screen (1.2 gain)?

I would calculate Foot Lamberts using 1.0 gain for the screen.
Reply
Reply
post #912 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


I'm trying to find the post you sent about the black tiles, was it an armstrong model #? I've had this tile sitting in the ceiling for about 3 months trying to decide. I like it but would like to see at least 1 other before deciding on 50+ to finish the room. I'll take the advice on priming first, thx..

Why not spray those current tiles and grids? I encounter a lot of acoustic tile being refinished, and it significantly reduces cost over replacing. Hell if you live close enough I'll come spray them, and you can calibrate my new projector when the JVC's arrive.
post #913 of 8005
zombie10k,

Any more comments coming on 2D dark scene comparisons between the HW50 and the JVC?

I'm still considering how much of a PQ cut I would take going from the RS45 to the HW50 and my main concern in black levels/contrast mostly in dark scenes. I have no doubt the 3D will be a huge improvement and I really want the FI in 3D which won't be happening this year from JVC. I've also considered the VW95ES but with a 119" screen with about a 17' throw it appears I'm going to take a decent hit in brightness compared to what I have now (which will also hurt in 3D).

My options appear to be:

1) Replace the RS45 with the HW50
2) Keep the RS45 and consider a BenqW7000 if a great deal comes along around BF. The cost of a Benq on a great sale might be about the same as the difference I would lose in selling the RS45 and getting the HW50. Although I would need 6 pairs of 3D glasses which I assume might be somewhat costly.
3. Replace the RS45 with the RS46. Although, this option isn't very exciting as the RS46 is basically the same projector as the RS45 with less crosstalk (which has yet to be confirmed) with a better lamp life and possibly brighter 3D (although I don't plan on spending ~$1200 on 6 pairs of glasses and an RF emitter).
post #914 of 8005
Zombie,
which would u buy.The 50es or epson 6020.Can get the Sony within $500 of the epson.Upgrade bug is biting pretty hard,and want something very soon.
Dont think i can wait for the JVc,plus its more then i want to spend.
post #915 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I would calculate Foot Lamberts using 1.0 gain for the screen.

Actually I think I remember Chris (Seymour), telling me it rated out at more like .92 which is what I've been using for my reference when calculating lumens


Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Kevin - thanks, the Avengers 3D has some great scenes for checking skin tones in 3D. This was the HW50 without the Darbee, RC resolution setting = 40 (factory is 50). That screenshot was the left eye of the 3D glasses placed right in front of the Nikon lens. I use a small 18-55 which fits great behind all the 3D glasses i've tried.
I'm trying to find the post you sent about the black tiles, was it an armstrong model #? I've had this tile sitting in the ceiling for about 3 months trying to decide. I like it but would like to see at least 1 other before deciding on 50+ to finish the room. I'll take the advice on priming first, thx.
I should see the 4810 and the 56, not certain about the 46 just yet. I'm anxious to see the e-shift 2 and start tweaking all the settings.
@ DGP - sorry not yet, I was busy calibrating the HW50 and then I put all the gear away and watched 3 movies on it. Going for a fourth tonight. I'll get back to the Epson this week.

Here's the original post for ya... http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428036/jvc-new-projectors-announced-cedia-2012/360#post_22420472

You should really give this serious consideration if you're looking for top quality acoustical benefits along with a true "batcaveee" look. I doubt you'll find anything better. Here's a couple pics in white to give you a feel...






Here's a quick pic of when I first installed the RS50 "way back in the olden days" . . . wink.gif




Too bad you're not in the Atlanta area as there's a guy dumping 23 cases (276 2x2' panels for $4 a tile!)

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/mat/3382986463.html

wink.gif
post #916 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I did some experimenting on a black field the other day with the 5020 and HW50. Neither had noticeable bright corners. I noticed 2 differences. The black floor on the HW50 appeared.. more black. meaning, once my eyes got settled, I could see some slight color on the 5020. Left was a slight tinge of pink and the right a bit blue, similar to the white and gray fields. It's not something that's going to be apparent unless studying it closely. The HW50 also appeared somewhat darker on the all black frame. The iris was closed down more on the Sony.
I'll try to get some overexposed shots of the black screens when I have some more time.

Thanks Jason. Be sure to try with different iris positions. I found that on the RS40, the problem was much more noticeable when the iris was closed to improve contrast. Luckily most of the time, fades to black are short enough where your eyes don't have time to adjust and see the brighter corners.

-Mark
post #917 of 8005
How do Sony HW 50 compare in 3d with mono dlp Benq w 7000 (brightness,, deepness , pop, and sharpness ) ? ?
post #918 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by toni1 View Post

How do Sony HW 50 compare in 3d with mono dlp Benq w 7000 (brightness,, deepness , pop, and sharpness ) ? ?
Didn't you see picture comparison in this topic?
post #919 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Actually I think I remember Chris (Seymour), telling me it rated out at more like .92 which is what I've been using for my reference when calculating lumens
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I would calculate Foot Lamberts using 1.0 gain for the screen.

Sorry, can you briefly explain what this means? redface.gif
post #920 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Actually I think I remember Chris (Seymour), telling me it rated out at more like .92 which is what I've been using for my reference when calculating lumens
Here's the original post for ya... http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428036/jvc-new-projectors-announced-cedia-2012/360#post_22420472
You should really give this serious consideration if you're looking for top quality acoustical benefits along with a true "batcaveee" look. I doubt you'll find anything better. Here's a couple pics in white to give you a feel...


Here's a quick pic of when I first installed the RS50 "way back in the olden days" . . . wink.gif

Too bad you're not in the Atlanta area as there's a guy dumping 23 cases (276 2x2' panels for $4 a tile!)
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/mat/3382986463.html
wink.gif

That is a good price. Kinda wishing I was near ATL as well. Not to verge way too far off topic, but how do the tiles perform from an audio point of view? Because I want to keep access to the ceiling I was thinking about going with black tiles, but the dedicated theater build guys didn't seem to like that idea.
post #921 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

That is a good price. Kinda wishing I was near ATL as well. Not to verge way too far off topic, but how do the tiles perform from an audio point of view? Because I want to keep access to the ceiling I was thinking about going with black tiles, but the dedicated theater build guys didn't seem to like that idea.


Yeah that's a helluvah price (I think I paid about $6.50 a tile so $4 is a steal)! This is a question for the build area but in short a drop ceiling makes it much more convenient for a dedicated front PJ theater room IMO and this tile has an NRC of .65 which is widely regarded as excellent. That in addition to the Roxul wool batting in the ceiling along with 1/2" thick rubber strips stapled to the sub floor gives me about a .82 NRC. If drywall is what you're referring to then it becomes really expensive to get these to these NRC levels unless you're wiling to use two drywall layers of unequal thickness (the key to sound transmission control in a room is using differing substrate properties causing a frequency mismatch).

smile.gif
post #922 of 8005
Not trying to be a jerk, but please stay on topic guys. Some people are subscribed to this thread, only to find that the 'new 'posts' are totally unrelated to the topic of interest. Scanning through relevant posts becomes a real hassle! cool.gif
post #923 of 8005
Thread Starter 
that's my fault for bring up the black ceiling tiles. back to the thread topic cool.gif
post #924 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn View Post

Sorry, can you briefly explain what this means? redface.gif

http://htrgroup.com/main.php?section=brightness
post #925 of 8005
Guys I'm not sure if this the right place for this, please let me know if it's not. I've been reading this shoot out with great interest because I'm starting to research a replacement for my Dwin TV3e. The last time I was active in the forum JVC was the rage, now it seems Sony and Epson are favorites - along with BenQ.

I do not have a light controlled room, the pj is in the family room with light color walls - during the day a lot of light comes in, but we do not watch the pj during the day anyway so that is not an issue. We could get drapes to cover the glass doors on one side of the room, but wife would prefer not to.

Screen is a Firehawk (92"), at about 15 ft from the pj. From reading the latest reviews I understand $2500-$3000 is the new sweat spot, where you get the most bang for your buck! But I could consider a used unit as well and save some money - I do not need latest model, just good image.

Most important factors:

Image quality in 2D, 3D would be neat - future proof I guess.
Since the unit is in the family room, I need a bright unit - the Epson 5010(20) maybe?

Any help appreciated, thanks,

MJC
Edited by mjcow - 11/12/12 at 3:26pm
post #926 of 8005
Considering the 4810 or the hw50 for a soon to be finished theater. Will be my first projector so I don't have a point of reference .

Can any of you current JVC owners comment on the motion for sports viewing? Is it that bad? Is this anticipated to improve in new models? JVC has a big plus in my set up because of lens memory. I'm going CIH for mostly movies but I like my Sunday football!

Also curious if there's been any talk about lumen output on the new JVC's. I'm looking at a 140 wide scope. Not sure if they have enough
post #927 of 8005
^^I would get the W7000. The thing is bright in best mode. Maybe the Epson 3020, it's also very bright in best mode.
post #928 of 8005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjcow View Post

Guys I'm not sure if this the right place for this, please let me know if it's not. I've been reading this shoot out with great interest because I'm starting to research a replacement for my Dwin TV3e. The last time I was active in the forum JVC was the rage, now it seems Sony and Epson are favorites - along with BenQ.

I do not have a light controlled room, the pj is in the family room with light color walls - during the day a lot of light comes in, but we do not watch the pj during the day anyway so that is not an issue. We could get drapes to cover the glass doors on one side of the room, but wife would prefer not to.

Screen is a Firehawk (92"), at about 15 ft from the pj. From reading the latest reviews I understand $2500-$3000 is the new sweat spot, where you get the most bang for your buck! But I could consider a used unit as well and save some money - I do not need latest model, just good image.

Most important factors:

Image quality in 2D, 3D would be neat - future proof I guess.
Since the unit is in the family room, I need a bright unit - the Epson 5010(20) maybe?
Any help appreciated, thanks,

MJC

it's nice to get a new projector for the warranty, especially if you plan on keeping it for while. The Sony HW50 or the Epson 5020 would work well with this setup. The Sony is at the top of your budget price but you get an extra lamp and a 3 year warranty with the purchase. Both projectors are great all around models that are good with 2D and 3D. I have a slight preference towards to the Sony for my Bluray movies.

The 5020 has a special 'living room' mode that is great for ambient light (in case you decide to watch in the daytime). the colors are a bit off in this mode, but it can throw 2000+ lumens which is fairly bright at this price point. 3D performance is similar between both models with the 5020 being slightly brighter.

You really can't go wrong with either model in this setup. Both projectors ship with 2 pairs of glasses.
post #929 of 8005
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Yeah that's a helluvah price (I think I paid about $6.50 a tile so $4 is a steal)! This is a question for the build area but in short a drop ceiling makes it much more convenient for a dedicated front PJ theater room IMO and this tile has an NRC of .65 which is widely regarded as excellent. That in addition to the Roxul wool batting in the ceiling along with 1/2" thick rubber strips stapled to the sub floor gives me about a .82 NRC. If drywall is what you're referring to then it becomes really expensive to get these to these NRC levels unless you're wiling to use two drywall layers of unequal thickness (the key to sound transmission control in a room is using differing substrate properties causing a frequency mismatch).
smile.gif

That's not correct at the frequencies we are trying not to transmit. At low frequencies one must eat up energy and that means a variety of different things one must do. Having two different sheetrock thicknesses does not give you much over two of the same but with constrained mode damping material such as decidamp of green glue etc. Also needed are resilient channel or the like and isolation from the studs and double walls. It goes on and on.

Re black ceiling tiles. One can order in black grid materials by special order just R andR with ypu existing white ones. If you have humongus bass in your HT, ceiling tiles can rattle but this canbe solved by weighting down the til;e with a cut piece of sheet rock plus stuffing the ceiling cavity with fiberglass insulation.

Back to the subject of this thread. Will the JVC or the Sony be better for sports?

I think its too close to call. Any time you have panning projectors and film has problems. It gets a different answer depending on whether the source is 720p or 1080i. I really don't think there is enough of a difference to say one is much better than the other but the motion handling is better on the Sony but some may not like the motion flow on the Sony even if set to low and then we are back to about equal. These conclusions are based on the Sony 30 and last years JVCs.
post #930 of 8005
Thank you for your suggestions, right inline with my incline. I like the 5020e, but if I could get a closeout deal on the 5010e I'd probably get it, it doesn't really need to be brand new (UNLESS - the Epson warranty is non-transferable, in which case I will buy new).

Thank you again for your shootout, this is EXTREMELY helpful!!!!
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