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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 34

post #991 of 8111
For those that have been waiting, HW50ES projectors arriving today.
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post #992 of 8111
For those interested, ProjectorReviews has their comparisons on the 5020 vs other projectors including the HW50ES:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/home-cinema-5020/competitors.php#2
post #993 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I'd certainly be interested.
Here's an article on parallax and screen size for those interested:
http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/the-perils-of-parallax
One other thing -- if you're in a completely darkened room and can't tell where your screen plane actually is then putting a depth cue where your screen is ( plug in a night light or something) so you will have the cue you need to judge just how far in or out of the screen the object appears to be should be helpful.
I used a screen depth cue the other night while watching an underwater 3D film and the lead diver actually appeared to be swimming out in the room while those following him were various distances behind him. This was a great example of both negative and positive parallax.
Yes, you also get this depth cue when showing a menu on screen, normally the menus are in screen plane.


Concerning popouts: The problem is that many movies or moviemakers don't use them correct. The object that comes out of the screen must not touch the screen frame! Otherwise the effect will be disturbed.
and the other thing is that the objects should not pop out too much, because then you get cross eyed.
third problem: The complete depth from front to back that is depicted in one frame should not be too large.
and there are many more rules that should be obeyed for good stereoscopic 3D.

Take Sammys Adventure for example: Many popouts BUT they seem to break the rules for S3D in nearly every scene...

I've one recommendation for some really good popout effects in a real-life film and thats the IMAX 3D documenatation "Legends of flight".
there are 3 scenes: 1. The nose of a Boeing Dreamliner comes out of the screen, so the Dreamliner parks in your living room..
2. The main gear of the Dreamliner (yes it's actually more a Boeing Dreamliner commercial than a real documentary...) is lowered and the huge tires come out of the screen
3. A harrier jet flies in front of a ship and some other harrier jets and it comes out of the screen partially.
and some more popouts..
Those are really really good popouts for my taste!

And on saturday I'm going to watch this IMAX 3D film in a REAL IMAX-cinema (the last one REAL IMAX 3D cinema in Germany btw..) and I'm curious what differences there are between the real IMAX experience and the screening of the 3D BD in my HT.

Finally: A 3D film has to be made for a specific screen size and viewing distance, strictly speaking. On different screen sizes and viewing distances the experience will be different. With 3D it is not the viewing angle that counts, it is really the actual size and viewing distance!
You can do one test for yourself: Show a 3D scene on screen and pause it. Then move forward towards the screen and backwards away from the screen and see what happens to the perceived depth in the scene. When increasing your viewing distance, the perceived depth in the scene also increases, when moving towards the screen, perceived depth gets smaller..
post #994 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

For those interested, ProjectorReviews has their comparisons on the 5020 vs other projectors including the HW50ES:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/home-cinema-5020/competitors.php#2

Bottom line Art seems to think the Epson and Sony are really close; however, if pricing etc. were equal he'd take the Sony. For some reason he keeps repeating that the SR and FI are active for 3D on the Epson. Does Epson have special projectors for reviewers only? biggrin.gif
post #995 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

For those interested, ProjectorReviews has their comparisons on the 5020 vs other projectors including the HW50ES:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/home-cinema-5020/competitors.php#2

When I read stuff in this review that we know is not true, I question the accuracy of the whole thing. Specifically he states:

For the Epson 5020 "the dynamic iris, CFI, Super-resolution... This year, those dynamic features are all available in 3D."

However the manual states:

During 3D projection, the following configuration menu functions cannot be changed.
Aspect (set to Normal), Noise Reduction (set to Off), Sharpness, Split Screen, Overscan (set to Off),
Super-resolution, Frame Interpolation (set to Off)

and I believe others here have verified that CFI, SR etc do not work in 3D.

IMO, stuff like this, all the cut and paste errors, inconsistencies between reviews, missing key information etc really diminish the value of these reviews.
post #996 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

I did a quicky calibration of Living Room mode on my cousins 5020 for gaming use (before we tested the lag and discovered it was slightly higher than THX/Cinema/Natural) and it is indeed very bright. The color that was the most out was Green and I did not bother correcting it (beyond luma) since the unit only had 20 some hours on the lamp and will drift. Using factory presets it's not bad by any means but not truly accurate either so I would be very skeptical of their claim that simply lowering the color temp yields a 'perfectly color balanced' image (I did drop the color temp as well during the cal).
Jason

I thought it interesting where they explain that it adds blue to compensate for untreated rooms and the warm push. That's a good trick for us to know who can't/don't want to change our room setups. I have beige walls right now and most likely white in my next place, so it would help tremendously to know these kinda things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

I dont know about 5020 but the epson 9000w which I have (predecessor to 6020) we found in thx eco setting was about as close to a calibration we performed. probably best out of box projector have come along. and is definitely a bonus I think for those who dont necessarily want to go down the calibration path smile.gif be interesting to know if the new model epsons are the same in this regard smile.gif

Good to know. If I do end up choosing the Epson I'll def check out the THX modes. But I really want CFI and SR in 3D. So unless Epson enables it w/ a firmware update, I'll probably go w/ the Sony. And since I need Anamorphic support, and most other features/image quality fairly alike, pricing is similar to the 6020 to where I'd not have so much buyers remorse either.

Speaking of the Sony, anyone have inputs on how it looks OOTB (cough, cough zombie biggrin.gif)?
post #997 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ol2 View Post

However the manual states:
During 3D projection, the following configuration menu functions cannot be changed.
Aspect (set to Normal)

Is that talking about aspect ratio? As in you cannot do Anamorphic support in 3D mode (I believe it was reported to be the case on the BenQ W7000 too)?
post #998 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiohobbit View Post

Yes, you also get this depth cue when showing a menu on screen, normally the menus are in screen plane.
Concerning popouts: The problem is that many movies or moviemakers don't use them correct. The object that comes out of the screen must not touch the screen frame! Otherwise the effect will be disturbed.
and the other thing is that the objects should not pop out too much, because then you get cross eyed.
third problem: The complete depth from front to back that is depicted in one frame should not be too large.
and there are many more rules that should be obeyed for good stereoscopic 3D.
Take Sammys Adventure for example: Many popouts BUT they seem to break the rules for S3D in nearly every scene...
I've one recommendation for some really good popout effects in a real-life film and thats the IMAX 3D documenatation "Legends of flight".
there are 3 scenes: 1. The nose of a Boeing Dreamliner comes out of the screen, so the Dreamliner parks in your living room..
2. The main gear of the Dreamliner (yes it's actually more a Boeing Dreamliner commercial than a real documentary...) is lowered and the huge tires come out of the screen
3. A harrier jet flies in front of a ship and some other harrier jets and it comes out of the screen partially.
and some more popouts..
Those are really really good popouts for my taste!
And on saturday I'm going to watch this IMAX 3D film in a REAL IMAX-cinema (the last one REAL IMAX 3D cinema in Germany btw..) and I'm curious what differences there are between the real IMAX experience and the screening of the 3D BD in my HT.
Finally: A 3D film has to be made for a specific screen size and viewing distance, strictly speaking. On different screen sizes and viewing distances the experience will be different. With 3D it is not the viewing angle that counts, it is really the actual size and viewing distance!
You can do one test for yourself: Show a 3D scene on screen and pause it. Then move forward towards the screen and backwards away from the screen and see what happens to the perceived depth in the scene. When increasing your viewing distance, the perceived depth in the scene also increases, when moving towards the screen, perceived depth gets smaller..

Remember what we say about "rules." They're made to be broken. biggrin.gif This has been true throughout history (the earth is the center of the universe) and especially art history (Gainsborough's Blue Boy - that the main color in a painting cannot be "cold"). It's a rule only as long as we agree that it's a rule.

James Cameron is at odds with traditional stereographers in his insistence that "there is no screen." He believes that not only are "edge violations" OK, the rule against using them in a 3D movie should be broken as often as possible. Without them, storytelling in 3D films is severely compromised, if not impossible. Martin Scorsese must agree, because in his first 3D film, "Hugo," you can't go more than a few seconds without encountering them. The same is true for "Avatar." They're EVERYWHERE. The only exception to his anti-rule is when an object comes directly out of the screen toward the viewer. Then the old rule holds and edges must be considered.

The funny thing is that I never hear people who aren't "traditional" stereographers complain about edge violations. After shooting my own 3D for over a year and a half (even if I am just a hobbyist), I tend more and more to agree with Cameron. Avatar is probably the best example of edge violations not mattering to the average person. Billions of dollars at the box office are a fairly convincing testimonial to that "truth." smile.gif

Anyway, spotting edge violations (and "pop-outs") is usually easy. With the 3D glasses off, look for an object that isn't a double image. That's the point of convergence for the shot. Technically speaking, anything that's in front of that object is in front of the screen. Anything behind it is behind the screen. Any object in front of the screen "pops out" and anything behind the screen is beyond the "window." Once you know that, it's just a matter of degree. Greater "pop-out" means that the object gets more "in your face," like the potato cod shot most of us have seen, or a knife or spear that comes at us. Any object that is in front of the screen but hits the frame is technically an "edge violation."

Traditionalists hold that any object that rests in front of the screen can't "come into contact with" the screen edges, or the brain won't be able to "process" it. It seems to be both behind and in front of the edge at the same time, which makes no sense. Cameron doesn't buy into this. People don't seem to have any trouble dealing with the visual inconsistency. From the point of view of a traditional 2D filmmaker, it's easy to see how difficult it would be to move the camera around if you constantly had to eliminate edge violations. There would be certain shots that you simply couldn't do. I see no reason to limit 3D any more than 2D in this regard. Of course, it's up to each person to agree or not, and in the end it won't matter much because filmmakers will do what they want. biggrin.gif I don't think that's a bad thing. 2D film isn't "real," and I see no reason to demand that 3D film be real, either. Breaking the "rules" need not make a 3D film less enjoyable. That's not to say that all 3D rules are bad. Limiting the separation of the left/right eyes to about 2.5 - 3 inches makes sense. Much more than that and you practically guarantee that some people will not be able to tolerate it. It can cause headaches or nausea in those who are susceptible. (Ironically, it's also a good justification for edge violations, in a round about way.) IMO, a reason that "pop-outs" don't show up in films more often is that they can begin to look gimmicky. 3D is having a hard enough time shedding that stereotype (pun intended). biggrin.gif

I have more but that's probably too much already. smile.gif
Edited by Joseph Clark - 11/15/12 at 2:19pm
post #999 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Hi, I'm using a display 3 calibrated by Tom Huffman @ Chromapure. I use velcro to hold the glasses over the sensor for the grayscale calibration. I'm basically compensating the best I can for the tint color of the glasses.
One of our members made a 3D ISO with 30, 80, 100 screens so the projector is running in 1080/24 Frame Packed mode. I know this can also be done with the built in 2D -> 3D conversion and a regular 2D calibration disk, but I wanted to keep the conversion out of it just in case there is something different vs. true 3D mode.
I watched a number of movies shot in Native 3D and the flesh tones looks pretty good with this setup.

Are you able to use Chromapure to successfully read the i1 Display Pro (i1D3) from behind the glasses? With CalMAN it will not read colors, notable red, from behind the glasses (but will do grayscale). I was therefore wondering if you were able to do this with Chromapure and not just for grayscale but for gamut calibration as well. Thanks.
post #1000 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Bottom line Art seems to think the Epson and Sony are really close; however, if pricing etc. were equal he'd take the Sony. For some reason he keeps repeating that the SR and FI are active for 3D on the Epson. Does Epson have special projectors for reviewers only? biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by ol2 View Post

When I read stuff in this review that we know is not true, I question the accuracy of the whole thing. Specifically he states:
For the Epson 5020 "the dynamic iris, CFI, Super-resolution... This year, those dynamic features are all available in 3D."
However the manual states:
During 3D projection, the following configuration menu functions cannot be changed.
Aspect (set to Normal), Noise Reduction (set to Off), Sharpness, Split Screen, Overscan (set to Off),
Super-resolution, Frame Interpolation (set to Off)
and I believe others here have verified that CFI, SR etc do not work in 3D.
IMO, stuff like this, all the cut and paste errors, inconsistencies between reviews, missing key information etc really diminish the value of these reviews.

Those are definitely cut/paste errors. That's definitely a problem with his reviews not to mention when some reviews are completed early (pre-review) that some errors are in there. It's always a good idea to have a second or third pair of eyes check your work afterwards and the assumption is that this isn't taking place.

After reading Art's findings that the Epson 5010's black levels in dark scenes matched the RS45 when the iris was fully open I tried this last night and while there's a noticeable difference in black levels with the iris closed down I am highly considering the HW50 now. The FI in 3D on the Sony is heavily causing me to lean towards getting an HW50 this year which is not possible on the Epson 5020 or on the JVC projectors this year. If the FI worked on the up and coming RS46 I'd definitely get one (assuming the ghosting problems have been resolved) but now I'm leaning towards the HW50.
Edited by xb1032 - 11/15/12 at 6:50pm
post #1001 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by fpr View Post

Zombie,
Have you tried the HW50 with RF Monster Vision glasses? How are the Monster Vision glasses regarding ghosting with the HW50 compared to the original Sony glasses?

If I remember correctly with the HW30 was a big difference in favor of the Monster Vision.

Best regards

The MonsterVision glasses are able to reduce to a very minimum the HW50 ghosting... Here some shot I've done with both glasses...

Here the Left Right pattern with the original Sony glasses :
3E046821-8056-44EE-99D2-9284358EF3E7-4700-00000967A302520C.jpg

77977FF3-5295-4437-83D7-649138CDAEBD-4700-000009679E7994D5.jpg


Here the Left Right pattern with the MonsterVision :
676EAD15-C991-4181-A2AD-D40A19754A18-4700-0000096790C0F343.jpg

909B82DD-152E-499C-9445-E119EAE39DF2-4700-000009678BC238B4.jpg
post #1002 of 8111
Would a lumagen mini work the same on all of these projectors for aspect ratio changes? I like the lens memory on the JVC, but the Motion and 3D of the Sony. Anybody had first hand experience using this device for going from 2.35 to 16:9 in a CIH set up? Projector options are so limited for zoom method CIH, I guess I'm just wondering why the lumagen doesn't get more attention for what it can do for aspect ratio control.
post #1003 of 8111
FWIW I used my old Lumagen HDQ for aspect ratio changes when I first got my HD350: I previously had a Panasonic AE3000 and had got used to the lens memory (but not the poor blacks wink.gif) so I used the shrink method where you leave the projector zoomed for 2.35:1 and 'shrink' the 16:9 menus, trailers (and whole films if you want) to a lower resolution so that the height fits on the 2.35:1 screen. I found it worked really well until I managed to find a used Isco II lens. I've since upgraded to a Lumagen Mini3D but it can do the same shrink if required. Not only that it can do the 125 point CMS with autocal if combined with Chromapure (or Calman) so you get a better CMS than the higher up JVC models (without the linearity issues either).
post #1004 of 8111
Yeah, I've read this whole thread (awesome and very helpful btw) and concluded that for my specific scenario if the HW50 had lens memory I'd have already ordered one. So I'm thinking HW50 w/ lumagen might do the trick. Any comments on how the 16:9 looked scaled sown? Not trying to go off topic here, this might help some that are considering this lot of projectors as I am smile.gif
post #1005 of 8111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Those are definitely cut/paste errors. That's definitely a problem with his reviews not to mention when some reviews are completed early (pre-review) that some errors are in there. It's always a good idea to have a second or third pair of eyes check your work afterwards and the assumption is that this isn't taking place.

After reading Art's findings that the Epson 5010's black levels in dark scenes matched the RS45 when the iris was fully open I tried this last night and while there's a noticeable difference in black levels with the iris closed down I am highly considering the HW50 now. The DI in 3D on the Sony is heavily causing me to lean towards getting an HW50 this year which is not possible on the Epson 5020 or on the JVC projectors this year. If the FI worked on the up and coming RS46 I'd definitely get one (assuming the ghosting problems have been resolved) but now I'm leaning towards the HW50.

is that the same RS45 with the noticeable blue tint on low APL scenes?

I think you meant FI (not DI) on the Sony 3D. On the 5020, I would rather have seen the FI instead of the DI since imo it really doesn't do much. Also the Super Resolution missing in 3D is a mistake that should be fixed in a firmware update if possible. The RC on the HW50 in 3D mode looks very good once it's tamed down a bit. (factory = 50, my preference is 25-30 here).
post #1006 of 8111
Thread Starter 
The Mitsubishi HC8000 should be here tomorrow.
post #1007 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by func View Post

Regarding the BUZZ from the IR emitter, according to Sony it's supposed to be an issue with the first 200 projectors. Maybe you guys could check your serial numbers to see if any 200+ projectors have the buzz? I should be getting mine this week and will check it on my unit, I'll let you know what i find.

My first HW50 had a serial #: 1100001
My replacement (b/c of terrible focus nonuniformity) has the serial: 1100196

It seems to me the buzz is slightly reduced, but it's definitely still there. Don't know if the 'slightly reduced' is just my imagination.

I got the external emitter from Sony... just prefer not having more components & wires.

Is Sony's policy that they'll still replace projectors for ones without the buzz?

P.S. Sorry about all the tech talk with coderguy-- would've been better suited for PMs but I was curious if anyone else would chime in. Zombie did & made the good point that screenshots with cameras may not matter until people own displays capable of displaying 14+ stops of dynamic range, so sometimes these discussions generate good input, which is why we were having it (I think). Apologies if it was too much; I'd like to revisit the topic, but perhaps in a different thread. Again, my apologies.
post #1008 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiohobbit View Post

You can do one test for yourself: Show a 3D scene on screen and pause it. Then move forward towards the screen and backwards away from the screen and see what happens to the perceived depth in the scene. When increasing your viewing distance, the perceived depth in the scene also increases, when moving towards the screen, perceived depth gets smaller..

Great point audiohobbit. Unfortunately on my 120" screen at 1.15x SW viewing distance, the 3D effect isn't dramatic. If I step back a few feet, it really helps. As you walk closer to the screen, the 3D effect completely vanishes.

Not surprising, since an object far away that has considerable parallax disparity will register as depth cues.

Question: since I don't have that much 3D effect from my viewing distance, will shrinking the image dramatically help (as much as sitting further back does)? I suppose I should test myself, just lazy about readjusting focus perfectly afterwards (adjusting focus is a battle with the HW50, given its nonuniformity).

P.S. Audiohobbit I remember you asking about lamp flickering on the HW50ES some time back. I can confirm that I don't see any flickering in High or Low modes in either my original or replacement units.
Edited by sarangiman - 11/15/12 at 4:47pm
post #1009 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The Mitsubishi HC8000 should be here tomorrow.

Great ! Always fun the received a new projector just before the week-end... smile.gif
post #1010 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Does Epson have special projectors for reviewers only? biggrin.gif

Actually, Yes, it's called cherry picked.
post #1011 of 8111
FWIW, here's a comparison of pixel level detail/SDE for an Epson 8350 vs. Sony HW50 (I took both shots at 200mm w/ a 70-200mm zoom, so images are comparable in terms of magnification):

Epson 8350:


Sony HW50:


Please click on the images and then right-click & view the image at 100%.

And that was the better copy of the Epson 8350. The previous one I had had just as bad convergence, but terrible flare in the optics.

What hurts the Sony, though, is focus nonuniformity. I posted the most in-focus part (for both projectors, though it seems to vary less for the Epson); just the to the left of the area I show here, the Sony goes slightly out of focus (even though this is the center of the screen). Not sure it matters in real-world viewing much, but, I would've expected better from a $4k projector (are my expectations misplaced?)
post #1012 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Remember what we say about "rules." They're made to be broken. biggrin.gif This has been true throughout history (the earth is the center of the universe) and especially art history (Gainsborough's Blue Boy - that the main color in a painting cannot be "cold"). It's a rule only as long as we agree that it's a rule.
James Cameron is at odds with traditional stereographers in his insistence that "there is no screen." He believes that not only are "edge violations" OK, the rule against using them in a 3D movie should be broken as often as possible. Without them, storytelling in 3D films is severely compromised, if not impossible. Martin Scorsese must agree, because in his first 3D film, "Hugo," you can't go more than a few seconds without encountering them. The same is true for "Avatar." They're EVERYWHERE. The only exception to his anti-rule is when an object comes directly out of the screen toward the viewer. Then the old rule holds and edges must be considered.
The funny thing is that I never hear people who aren't "traditional" stereographers complain about edge violations. After shooting my own 3D for over a year and a half (even if I am just a hobbyist), I tend more and more to agree with Cameron. Avatar is probably the best example of edge violations not mattering to the average person. Billions of dollars at the box office are a fairly convincing testimonial to that "truth." smile.gif
Anyway, spotting edge violations (and "pop-outs") is usually easy. With the 3D glasses off, look for an object that isn't a double image. That's the point of convergence for the shot. Technically speaking, anything that's in front of that object is in front of the screen. Anything behind it is behind the screen. Any object in front of the screen "pops out" and anything behind the screen is beyond the "window." Once you know that, it's just a matter of degree. Greater "pop-out" means that the object gets more "in your face," like the potato cod shot most of us have seen, or a knife or spear that comes at us. Any object that is in front of the screen but hits the frame is technically an "edge violation."
Traditionalists hold that any object that rests in front of the screen can't "come into contact with" the screen edges, or the brain won't be able to "process" it. It seems to be both behind and in front of the edge at the same time, which makes no sense. Cameron doesn't buy into this. People don't seem to have any trouble dealing with the visual inconsistency. From the point of view of a traditional 2D filmmaker, it's easy to see how difficult it would be to move the camera around if you constantly had to eliminate edge violations. There would be certain shots that you simply couldn't do. I see no reason to limit 3D any more than 2D in this regard. Of course, it's up to each person to agree or not, and in the end it won't matter much because filmmakers will do what they want. biggrin.gif I don't think that's a bad thing. 2D film isn't "real," and I see no reason to demand that 3D film be real, either. Breaking the "rules" need not make a 3D film less enjoyable. That's not to say that all 3D rules are bad. Limiting the separation of the left/right eyes to about 2.5 - 3 inches makes sense. Much more than that and you practically guarantee that some people will not be able to tolerate it. It can cause headaches or nausea in those who are susceptible. (Ironically, it's also a good justification for edge violations, in a round about way.) IMO, a reason that "pop-outs" don't show up in films more often is that they can begin to look gimmicky. 3D is having a hard enough time shedding that stereotype (pun intended). biggrin.gif
I have more but that's probably too much already. smile.gif

I would think that Sammy's Adventure takes the cake when it comes to breaking the rules! An awful lot of negative parallax in this movie. I agree that breaking the rules when needed is the way to go. I think the depth cue I placed by the screen has more to do with me seeing much more out into the room "pop out" than changing the screen size on the Oppo. Chapter 5 in Sammy where the snake comes a long way into the room is an excellent example of really pushing negative parallax (pop out). I switched the image size from small to large and it didn't seem to do much (snake scene both with large and small screen setting -- a lot of stretch into the room with both settings), but knowing exactly where the screen was allowed me to judge just how much negative parallax was being used. I now have a much greater appreciation of how much in-front-of-the-screen action there is in some movies and how little in others, although most of those have a few in-your-face moments.
post #1013 of 8111
In Europe, 'Light Power Edition' package is only available for epson EH-TW9100 (6020 equivalent).

When properly calibrated, LPE allows decent colors with extra lumens, which can be quite relevant for living room environment and 3D.

Maybe a dumb question but.... Since 5020 lacks color gamut control, can LPE still be properly calibrated? Does color gamut control worth the extra paying?

Is anyone using LPE with 5010/5020?

Thanks and Cheers.
post #1014 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I would think that Sammy's Adventure takes the cake when it comes to breaking the rules! An awful lot of negative parallax in this movie. I agree that breaking the rules when needed is the way to go. I think the depth cue I placed by the screen has more to do with me seeing much more out into the room "pop out" than changing the screen size on the Oppo. Chapter 5 in Sammy where the snake comes a long way into the room is an excellent example of really pushing negative parallax (pop out). I switched the image size from small to large and it didn't seem to do much (snake scene both with large and small screen setting -- a lot of stretch into the room with both settings), but knowing exactly where the screen was allowed me to judge just how much negative parallax was being used. I now have a much greater appreciation of how much in-front-of-the-screen action there is in some movies and how little in others, although most of those have a few in-your-face moments.

Pop-out 3D can be so much fun! One of our AVS members sent me a 3D video of his Parrot RC drone, a small four-rotor "helicopter" like the ones in Avatar. I was sitting in front of my LG 7600 passive 3D monitor, at exactly the right distance and angle (dead center). It was the most realistic "I have to reach out and touch it" feeling I've ever had. I got a little giddy. biggrin.gif It grazed the frame once while it was hovering there in front of me, and I noticed it. OTOH, most "edge violations" don't even come close to taking me out of the 3D experience. If the violation is happening in the periphery of my vision (i.e. at the screen's edge), it almost never bothers me.
post #1015 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

is that the same RS45 with the noticeable blue tint on low APL scenes?
I think you meant FI (not DI) on the Sony 3D. On the 5020, I would rather have seen the FI instead of the DI since imo it really doesn't do much. Also the Super Resolution missing in 3D is a mistake that should be fixed in a firmware update if possible. The RC on the HW50 in 3D mode looks very good once it's tamed down a bit. (factory = 50, my preference is 25-30 here).

Yes.

And you are correct in that I meant FI instead of DI (post corrected).
post #1016 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by rufilo View Post

In Europe, 'Light Power Edition' package is only available for epson EH-TW9100 (6020 equivalent).
When properly calibrated, LPE allows decent colors with extra lumens, which can be quite relevant for living room environment and 3D.
Maybe a dumb question but.... Since 5020 lacks color gamut control, can LPE still be properly calibrated? Does color gamut control worth the extra paying?
Is anyone using LPE with 5010/5020?
Thanks and Cheers.

The 5020 does have a Color Management System (color gamut control). wink.gif

Jason
post #1017 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

Great point audiohobbit. Unfortunately on my 120" screen at 1.15x SW viewing distance, the 3D effect isn't dramatic. If I step back a few feet, it really helps. As you walk closer to the screen, the 3D effect completely vanishes.
Not surprising, since an object far away that has considerable parallax disparity will register as depth cues.
Question: since I don't have that much 3D effect from my viewing distance, will shrinking the image dramatically help (as much as sitting further back does)? I suppose I should test myself, just lazy about readjusting focus perfectly afterwards (adjusting focus is a battle with the HW50, given its nonuniformity).

Yes it helps, and I know exactly what you mean. I watch my CIH screen from 1sw and 16:9 3D is great. But scope 3D becomes uncomfortable to watch and there is not a lot of depth. I finally decided to watch scope 3D smaller at just a little wider than my 16:9 image, and it is a big improvement in depth and ease of viewing. Even the black bars are no big deal since through the glasses they get very dark.
Edited by 5mark - 11/15/12 at 9:02pm
post #1018 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I forgot to mention, turning down the 3D brightness setting 1 notch below maximum can make a big difference on any ghosting. It will lower the brightness just a bit, but it's a good trade-off.
also, you can get kid's glasses that are a good fit for kids 6-12. Search amazon or ebay for Sony BR50 3D glasses.
You will need these filters for it to work with the HW50:
https://www.servicesplus.sel.sony.com/sony-part-number-145831421.aspx
1 'kit' per pair of glasses. With the filters, the BR50's work perfect with the HW50.

Hi Zombie. Thanks for the tip I'll check settings and give that a shot. I already have the kids glasses - got them a pair of XP104's each - my 9yo a 'medium' and my 6yo the 'small'. They are both happy and like having their own 'dedicated' pair!

I was thinking though per your results a few posts earlier of the Monster Visions - if i got a couple of pairs of these can I run them on RF but still have my others (Sony & Xpands) running from the Sony's IR transmitter (external)? Although in saying that the Xpands have an RF converter, just need to check it will work off the Monster adapter also. I may be totally off the mark but worried if by hooking up the Monster RF adapter will stop the IR emission. Of course I might've just made that up ;-p.

I'm swaying towards RF overall (even if it means not using the Sony supplied glasses) as whilst I have no connectivity issues between glasses and projector, my HTPC wireless keyboard and Harmony One remote are definitely taking a hit in response accuracy when the projector is running.
post #1019 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

FWIW, here's a comparison of pixel level detail/SDE for an Epson 8350 vs. Sony HW50
Thank you sarangiman. And thats the reason I could not libe with the Epson I bought, for me it was this was visible from viewing distance. This could also be part of why the Epson felt not as sharp.
Tonight I can finally see the X35 plus all others and cant wait see see which one I like most :-)
post #1020 of 8111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Ghosting in the JVC panels is due to the inability of the LCoS panels to refresh fast enough to get a "clean" image on the screen when the shutter glasses open for the right and left eyes. RF technology won't change that - only faster panels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiohobbit View Post

Yes, I think that's correct. I haven't yet read about someone using the new JVC RF system with the old projectors. The new systems will be sold beginning end of november I think, so no one had yet a chance to try this I think. It is possible to use the RF system with the older projectors but I can't imagine that this reduces the ghosting much.


Yes, the problem is the LCoS panels, but I read that the new models has greatly improved the ghosting over the X30/X70/x90 and still have the same panels. So if the new JVC RF system is the only difference I thought that these could also improve the ghosting in X30/X70/X90.
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