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Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout... - Page 41

post #1201 of 4155
11/22/12 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I cant wait to hear your comparison to the 48, same with Zombie and anyone else who has these two machines. I dont see ANY way the new JVC will compete overall even if ghosting has been somewhat improved (JVC would really have to work some voodoo for 120hz content to come anywhere close!) Time will tell of course, but I think its very safe to assume the Benq will have less ghosting still, especially for 120hz content and blu ray to some degree as well. The Benq has FI in 3d, JVC definitely wont have that. Flicker.........there is no reason at all to believe the JVC will be any better here vs last year which means those sensitive will still find the 3d viewing uncomfortable from this standpoint. The JVCs certainly wont be any brighter in 3d and maybe not as bright even.
As far as 3d goes, I just dont see any way the new JVCs can compete in light of all this, do you? What am I missing that has you guys optimistic vs a Benq7000?
So the 3d was good on Nemo? Good depth, pop or both?

I'm not saying that the Benq is not good enough, just want that performance in the JVC. I always sit in the back watching 3D, which is about 18ft away from the screen. It always makes the screen look bigger to me. But Finding Nemo had the best depth and color I seen, but Journey 2 was also excellent.
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post #1202 of 4155
11/22/12 at 8:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

Is that the only major difference? I guess time will tell if eShift2 is worth a $1500 premium.

There is also the Color Management System in the RS48/RS4810 vs. the RS46. We'll have to find out how close the RS46 is out of the box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn View Post

Hi Zombie,
Have you mounted your Mits HC8000 yet (and did you get your 3d emitter)?

Anxiously waiting for your review of this unit ... smile.gif

sorry not yet, I really want to wait until I get the glasses and emitter so I can review the 2D and 3D. It should be soon. In the meantime, I am rebuilding one of my HTPC's that I use for the tests and should be able to get some lag time reports in as requested by a few members.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post


I would have thought the party had already begun by having three of the latest models together at once in one room, guess the JVC must be the guest of honor. wink.gif

* Oh and the question I came here to post and forgot...

Have you (Jason/Zombie) considered inviting other local AVS'ers over to see the direct comparisons since you are one of the few lucky enough to be able to do this (with the hope that they are willing to post their impressions here for the benefit of the forum)?

Jason

I certainly would consider it, but the vast majority of my testing is done in the middle of the night based on my time availability.

Plenty of experienced members have been reporting on the current models and expect the same when the JVC's are released. Plus we have the pro reviews and of course everyone is awaiting Cine4home's excellent teardown's.

I think a number of folks are awaiting the JVC's before making a decision this year and i'm sure the thread is going to be filled with good observations over the holiday / new year.
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post #1203 of 4155
11/22/12 at 8:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I cant wait to hear your comparison to the 48, same with Zombie and anyone else who has these two machines. I dont see ANY way the new JVC will compete overall even if ghosting has been somewhat improved (JVC would really have to work some voodoo for 120hz content to come anywhere close!) Time will tell of course, but I think its very safe to assume the Benq will have less ghosting still, especially for 120hz content and blu ray to some degree as well. The Benq has FI in 3d, JVC definitely wont have that. Flicker.........there is no reason at all to believe the JVC will be any better here vs last year which means those sensitive will still find the 3d viewing uncomfortable from this standpoint. The JVCs certainly wont be any brighter in 3d and maybe not as bright even.

As far as 3d goes, I just dont see any way the new JVCs can compete in light of all this, do you? What am I missing that has you guys optimistic vs a Benq7000?

So the 3d was good on Nemo? Good depth, pop or both?

Nemo 3D was an excellent conversion. The only problem I see if that can't seem to get any pop-outs on these conversions, mostly everything is depth. Sammy's Adventure 3D is still my # 1 3D pick, I wish the other studios would take lessons on how to create thrilling 3D that is there in just about every scene.

I see blee0120's point for wanting to see the new JVC. I watched Spiderman 3D on the RS55 the other night and preferred it to the 5020 since the dark scenes look amazing on the JVC. It really added to the overall depth of the 3D.

I didn't get a chance to see it against the W7000 since I ran out of the 2032 batteries for my ZD201's. Later tonight I am experimenting with the Xpand 104 software on the RS55 just for kicks. This guys comments have me interested since he has 700 hours on the lamp.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1440180/jvc-x30-xpand-104-my-best-3d-settings


If the stars and moon align correctly, I should be able to see the 5020, HW50, RS55, RS4810, W7000 and the HC8000 at the same time for one big 3D shootout. biggrin.gif
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post #1204 of 4155
11/22/12 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Turn off the E-shift and you basically have the same projector as the 46, so by reviewing the 4810 two different ways, you will know the performance of the 46 and 4810.

I may have my model numbers mixed up as I'm UK based, but I thought the RS46 (X35) and RS4810 (X55?) had further differences such as the CMS on the RS4810 and not on the RS46? Granted you might only have to turn off the CMS on the RS4810, but I don't know if it has the same colour space options as a starting point? The other slight issue is that the Eshift on the RS4810 causes a slight reduction in light output so the RS46 would be a fraction brighter and possibly have higher ANSI contrast due to the Eshift causing a slight reduction in ANSI contrast. It's the later part that helps my decision to get the X35 (RS46) as I already have a Mini3D for CMS and I use an Isco lens so I'm not sure if Eshift would bring any more to the image in my set up.

EDIT: I typed this over an hour ago, but didn't click submit as I got sidetracked on the phone. rolleyes.gif
Edited by Kelvin1965S - 11/22/12 at 8:55am
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post #1205 of 4155
11/22/12 at 8:53am
Thread Starter 
I think Mike's point is that there shouldn't be a day/night difference between the X35/RS46 and the X55/RS4810 if the e-shift is turned off. You have a good point regarding the color space options. Let's compare some notes when you get your X35.

I am considering picking up the Mini3D when they go on sale tomorrow. I'd like to see how Tom's 125 point autocal works with Chromapure.
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post #1206 of 4155
11/22/12 at 8:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Nemo 3D was an excellent conversion. The only problem I see if that can't seem to get any pop-outs on these conversions, mostly everything is depth. Sammy's Adventure 3D is still my # 1 3D pick, I wish the other studios would take lessons on how to create thrilling 3D that is there in just about every scene.
I see blee0120's point for wanting to see the new JVC. I watched Spiderman 3D on the RS55 the other night and preferred it to the 5020 since the dark scenes look amazing on the JVC. It really added to the overall depth of the 3D.
I didn't get a chance to see it against the W7000 since I ran out of the 2032 batteries for my ZD201's. Later tonight I am experimenting with the Xpand 104 software on the RS55 just for kicks. This guys comments have me interested since he has 700 hours on the lamp.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1440180/jvc-x30-xpand-104-my-best-3d-settings
If the stars and moon align correctly, I should be able to see the 5020, HW50, RS55, RS4810, W7000 and the HC8000 at the same time for one big 3D shootout. biggrin.gif

Sounds good. Depth 3d is what I find most impressive so it sounds like Nemo should be right up my alley. I am still dying to see Sammy's, but I have been way to cheap up to this point to pay the import price for it. Of course if I had a 3d projector I was excited about, I might be a little less tight. biggrin.gif Hope to land a smokin 7000 deal at some point soon.

The thing I am most curious about right now from all the projectors you have, or have coming is if the BenQ 7000 has a way to tame the light in the service menu which I know you mentioned you will check when you fire it back up at some point. I am very curious about this. The 7000 is still my top pick right now as far as my next projector move and pairing it with my 45 which should make a great combo for another year or two at which point maybe JVC will catch up in the 3d department. I really want FI in 3d and I really want to be rid of ghosting AND flicker which the new JVCs just wont accomplish this round. Hope there have been some solid improvement this time though which will be a step in the right direction at least. 2d of course will be killer and that is still going to be the big reason to buy a JVC no doubt.

How did you like Madagascar 3 for 3d? Lots of people are raving about the 3d on that disc and I blind bought it based on all of that for when I have a real 3d projector to watch it on.
Edited by Toe - 11/22/12 at 9:03am
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post #1207 of 4155
11/22/12 at 8:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Sounds good. Depth 3d is what I find most impressive so it sounds like Nemo should be right up my alley.

The thing I am most curious about right now from all the projectors you have, or have coming is if the BenQ 7000 has a way to tame the light in the service menu which I know you mentioned you will check when you fire it back up at some point. I am very curious about this. The 7000 is still my top pick right now as far as my next projector move and pairing it with my 45 which should make a great combo for another year or two at which point maybe JVC will catch up in the 3d department.

I just got new batteries for the W7000's glasses and should have some time this weekend to see what I can find in the service menu. I still have the 'beta' firmware on W7000 that eventually turned into the 1.03 software, so it should be the same.
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post #1208 of 4155
11/22/12 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I think Mike's point is that there shouldn't be a day/night difference between the X35/RS46 and the X55/RS4810 if the e-shift is turned off. You have a good point regarding the color space options. Let's compare some notes when you get your X35.
I am considering picking up the Mini3D when they go on sale tomorrow. I'd like to see how Tom's 125 point autocal works with Chromapure.

I hope to be getting my X35 in a week or two. Unfortunately I'm then a bit busy so won't have much time to really get to grips with it until mid December (maybe chance during the week as it's the weekends that are busy). I already have the Mini3D and have been using the autocal 125 point on my TV, I haven't bothered recalibrating my HD350 (RS10) as it will be going soon (or into storage as a back up).
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post #1209 of 4155
11/22/12 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I just got new batteries for the W7000's glasses and should have some time this weekend to see what I can find in the service menu. I still have the 'beta' firmware on W7000 that eventually turned into the 1.03 software, so it should be the same.

Good deal! Looking forward to your findings.
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post #1210 of 4155
11/22/12 at 11:15am
Zombie below is a cut and past of last years shoot out tread showing your findings on Lumens once calibrated in both 2D and 3D with both lamp modes. Do you have similar information for this new round of projectors. Would like to compare the differences where there are any. I know the updated Sony is publishing higher Lumens possible some others. If you have please post, if not will this be something you will be measuring? thanks, Jeff.


edit: adding Lumens information. Normal = high lamp, Economy = low lamp. I know there are different references for the lamp modes.

Ben Q W7000: ~15 hours on the lamp

2D mode @ D65 = 1062 Lumens (Normal)
3D mode @ D65 = 894 Lumens (Normal)
** I did not get Economy readings in 2D on the W7000.

JVC RS45: ~ 20 hours on the lamp

2D mode @ D65 = 927 Lumens (Normal)
2D mode @ D65 = 614 Lumens (Economy)
3D mode @ 8500k = 771 Lumens (Normal)

Sony HW30: ~ 115 hours on the lamp

2D mode @ D65 = 894 Lumens (Normal)
2D mode @ D65 = 559 Lumens (Economy)
3D mode @ 8500k = 793 lumens (Normal)
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post #1211 of 4155
11/22/12 at 1:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsbuyer View Post

Zombie below is a cut and past of last years shoot out tread showing your findings on Lumens once calibrated in both 2D and 3D with both lamp modes. Do you have similar information for this new round of projectors. Would like to compare the differences where there are any. I know the updated Sony is publishing higher Lumens possible some others. If you have please post, if not will this be something you will be measuring? thanks, Jeff.

Jeff, hi I haven't posted this info yet except the 3D lumens (precalibration) on the 5020 which was ~1400 in cinema mode and 1064 on the HW50 in it's cinema mode. Both projectors were near shortest throw on my 142" 16:9

I'll have more information soon that i'll add to the first page of the thread.
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post #1212 of 4155
11/22/12 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I am considering picking up the Mini3D when they go on sale tomorrow. I'd like to see how Tom's 125 point autocal works with Chromapure.

Great !

I would like to know too if this 125 points make a real world difference...
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post #1213 of 4155
11/22/12 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Jeff, hi I haven't posted this info yet except the 3D lumens (precalibration) on the 5020 which was ~1400 in cinema mode and 1064 on the HW50 in it's cinema mode. Both projectors were near shortest throw on my 142" 16:9
I'll have more information soon that i'll add to the first page of the thread.

zombie: do you know the 3D calibrated lumens on the W7000? I remember it being so dark as to be unwatchable on my 120" 1.1 gain screen w/ a 15ft throw. HW50, on the other hand, is quite enjoyable.

Also, FWIW: a brightness setting of '3' on the glasses yields the least IR emitter buzz... less than even the lower settings, & much less than the max setting.

Service menu setting of '1' for emitter strength causes me to lose sync, so that's not an option.
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post #1214 of 4155
11/22/12 at 2:15pm
The JVC rep I spoke to said X55 is pretty muchnthe same as X35/RS46 if you disable eShift.
Of course there is the color managment, a bit less lumen, but eShift is the key diference in performance.
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post #1215 of 4155
11/22/12 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I think Mike's point is that there shouldn't be a day/night difference between the X35/RS46 and the X55/RS4810 if the e-shift is turned off. You have a good point regarding the color space options. Let's compare some notes when you get your X35.
I am considering picking up the Mini3D when they go on sale tomorrow. I'd like to see how Tom's 125 point autocal works with Chromapure.

Correct, not exactly the same but close.
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post #1216 of 4155
11/22/12 at 7:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

zombie: do you know the 3D calibrated lumens on the W7000? I remember it being so dark as to be unwatchable on my 120" 1.1 gain screen w/ a 15ft throw. HW50, on the other hand, is quite enjoyable.
.

I'm actually surprised the Sony Hw50 appears brighter. I was under the assumption the Benq W7000 had the highest light output even after calibration to D65.
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post #1217 of 4155
11/22/12 at 7:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsbuyer View Post

I'm actually surprised the Sony Hw50 appears brighter. I was under the assumption the Benq W7000 had the highest light output even after calibration to D65.

in 3D, they are close. W7000 is ~1100 lumens, HW50 is ~ 1064. (both uncalibrated in 3D mode)

They look similar to me (through the glasses) in the direct A/B testing i've done.
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post #1218 of 4155
11/22/12 at 9:26pm
Zombie.

How many lumens do you get using cinema mode with economic lamp in 2D on your Benq 7000?
I just got the 7000 and this mode seems so much brighter than the JVC RS45 natural mode even with the 45 on high lamp.
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post #1219 of 4155
11/22/12 at 10:07pm
Ok, obviously you should take zombie's word over mine as he's done direct comparison & I'm going based off of memory of the W7000 from a few months ago.

I'm comparing (from memory) the brightness of the opening sequence (in 3D) of Crysis 2 on a PS3. I remember it being so dark on the W7000 I could barely see where I was going; not so on the Sony. I must've had the W7000 in some unfair mode; I can't remember.

While we're on the subject: 3D gaming is a no-go on the Sony. The ghosting is ridiculous. Pretty sure it was fine on the W7000. It's so bad on the Sony it barely makes sense, since movies aren't this bad. I'm wondering if it's b/c it's a 60p framepacked signal, as opposed to 24p framepacked. I'm assuming the latter plays at 48Hz, while the 60p signal plays at 120Hz. At 120Hz, I bet the SXRD chips can't possibly keep up w/ the L/R frames flashing so quickly, hence the ridiculous ghosting.

Literally, PS3 games in 3D are completely unplayable on the HW50ES b/c of ghosting. And I'm willing to bet it's b/c it's 60p frame-packed. I wish there were an option in games for 24p framepacked for 3D games. There's no reason the games should have THAT much more ghosting than 3D 24p movies, which are still quite enjoyable on the HW50.

I tried both Crysis 2 & Uncharted 3 in stereoscopic 3D. Both completely unplayable in 3D.

Which reminds me: if Sony were more like Apple, they wouldn't have even allowed for such a poor presentation of stereoscopic 3D with a SONY PS3 & a SONY projector. Seriously, if the tech hasn't evolved enough, don't even enable it... even though I got a taste of how glorious stereoscopic 3D gaming could be, a lot of other people may be completely turned off by the experience.
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post #1220 of 4155
11/22/12 at 10:23pm
Thread Starter 
I recall SBS material being tough on the HW30 last year. The 5010 was able to handle SBS much better. I have't tried on either of the new models yet but expect the same based on your info.
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post #1221 of 4155
11/22/12 at 10:36pm
I can confirm that the 5010 does very well with 3D gaming. I've tried a few PS3 games that were loaded with ghosting on the RS55 and they were virtually ghost free on the Epson. Kinda surprising but a very nice bonus.
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post #1222 of 4155
11/22/12 at 11:43pm
Pretty sure PS3 3D is 60p frame packed, not SBS. Under signal info, for Crysis 2 and Uncharted 3, the HW50 indicates a 720p 60p/framepacked signal.
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post #1223 of 4155
11/23/12 at 12:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

Ok, obviously you should take zombie's word over mine as he's done direct comparison & I'm going based off of memory of the W7000 from a few months ago.
I'm comparing (from memory) the brightness of the opening sequence (in 3D) of Crysis 2 on a PS3. I remember it being so dark on the W7000 I could barely see where I was going; not so on the Sony. I must've had the W7000 in some unfair mode; I can't remember.
While we're on the subject: 3D gaming is a no-go on the Sony. The ghosting is ridiculous. Pretty sure it was fine on the W7000. It's so bad on the Sony it barely makes sense, since movies aren't this bad. I'm wondering if it's b/c it's a 60p framepacked signal, as opposed to 24p framepacked. I'm assuming the latter plays at 48Hz, while the 60p signal plays at 120Hz. At 120Hz, I bet the SXRD chips can't possibly keep up w/ the L/R frames flashing so quickly, hence the ridiculous ghosting.
Literally, PS3 games in 3D are completely unplayable on the HW50ES b/c of ghosting. And I'm willing to bet it's b/c it's 60p frame-packed. I wish there were an option in games for 24p framepacked for 3D games. There's no reason the games should have THAT much more ghosting than 3D 24p movies, which are still quite enjoyable on the HW50.
I tried both Crysis 2 & Uncharted 3 in stereoscopic 3D. Both completely unplayable in 3D.
Which reminds me: if Sony were more like Apple, they wouldn't have even allowed for such a poor presentation of stereoscopic 3D with a SONY PS3 & a SONY projector. Seriously, if the tech hasn't evolved enough, don't even enable it... even though I got a taste of how glorious stereoscopic 3D gaming could be, a lot of other people may be completely turned off by the experience.

You could replace Sony in your post above with JVC and you would have my thoughts on the JVCs and 3d gaming frown.gif. Horrible and unplayable due to severe ghosting. JVC would have to work a miracle in this area for the new models for them to be even acceptable at 3d gaming.

I am VERY impressed to hear how good the Epsons do in this area (and DLPs of course) and this is another advantage in 3d for those models vs JVC and Sony from the sound of it. Makes me wonder how the Panasonic would do here?
Edited by Toe - 11/23/12 at 12:12am
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post #1224 of 4155
11/23/12 at 12:08am
I see more and more reports of the 3D on the Epson that s supposed to be really good as of flickering (not as good as the W7000 but a best second place). So the Epson is better when it comes to flickering compared to the HW50. But how does it compare to the HW50 in 3D in other areas like motion handling and black level?
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post #1225 of 4155
11/23/12 at 12:39am
Just a quick note to say that the Epson 6020 is now shipping.

My dealer received their first shipment yesterday and sent mine over to me at around 5:30. This is my first projector and unfortunately I don't have a screen. I am projecting the image on an unfinished basement wall because I just had to try it out. Tomorrow I'll throw up a white bed sheet and use that until my Seymour AT screen is delivered. I've been told that my screen should be shipped the first week of December.

Obviously I'm reserving my comments until my screen arrives, and by that time others I'm sure will be offering their opinions.

-- Bill --
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post #1226 of 4155
11/23/12 at 1:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Just a quick note to say that the Epson 6020 is now shipping.
My dealer received their first shipment yesterday and sent mine over to me at around 5:30. This is my first projector and unfortunately I don't have a screen. I am projecting the image on an unfinished basement wall because I just had to try it out. Tomorrow I'll throw up a white bed sheet and use that until my Seymour AT screen is delivered. I've been told that my screen should be shipped the first week of December.
Obviously I'm reserving my comments until my screen arrives, and by that time others I'm sure will be offering their opinions.
-- Bill --
Congrats. I'm sure you'll find Epson 6020 awesome projector smile.gif
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post #1227 of 4155
11/23/12 at 3:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

You could replace Sony in your post above with JVC and you would have my thoughts on the JVCs and 3d gaming frown.gif. Horrible and unplayable due to severe ghosting. JVC would have to work a miracle in this area for the new models for them to be even acceptable at 3d gaming.
I am VERY impressed to hear how good the Epsons do in this area (and DLPs of course) and this is another advantage in 3d for those models vs JVC and Sony from the sound of it. Makes me wonder how the Panasonic would do here?

I watched 24p 3D on X55 for a couple of hours yesterday on my own theater (managed to load an pre prod unit for an evening). It very soon became clear that JVC has made a significant step (bigger than I expected) forward in terms of 24p ghosting; did not see any ghosting whatsoever (I know what to look for, have watched about 50 3D movies on my X3), I did not look for those known pathological cases, but tested some movies that showed ghosting most clearly (IMAX Space station, Transformers 3, Imax Under the Sea...) in my X3 when it was new and none of those showed any ghosting whatsoever on X55 that I could see.

However, I come from X3/RS40, where I would character 24p 3d between "acceptable" and "good" and PS3 gaming or any 50/60 Hz content was "fully, madly and deeply unwatchable" due to excess ghosting. I ordered X55 as my 3D is all 24p, not really a gamer and there are no interesting 3D broadcasts here. It is wort checking if they made progress with 50/60 Hz 3d as they have made a nice step with 3D, but I would highly recommend against blind buying a new JVC for PS3 gaming or SbS/TaB content thinking "how bad can it be" as it truly was just that dreadful with X3/RS40. And with last years models too.
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post #1228 of 4155
11/23/12 at 3:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post

I watched 24p 3D on X55 for a couple of hours yesterday on my own theater (managed to load an pre prod unit for an evening). It very soon became clear that JVC has made a significant step (bigger than I expected) forward in terms of 24p ghosting; did not see any ghosting whatsoever (I know what to look for, have watched about 50 3D movies on my X3), I did not look for those known pathological cases, but tested some movies that showed ghosting most clearly (IMAX Space station, Transformers 3, Imax Under the Sea...) in my X3 when it was new and none of those showed any ghosting whatsoever on X55 that I could see.
However, I come from X3/RS40, where I would character 24p 3d between "acceptable" and "good" and PS3 gaming or any 50/60 Hz content was "fully, madly and deeply unwatchable" due to excess ghosting. I ordered X55 as my 3D is all 24p, not really a gamer and there are no interesting 3D broadcasts here. It is wort checking if they made progress with 50/60 Hz 3d as they have made a nice step with 3D, but I would highly recommend against blind buying a new JVC for PS3 gaming or SbS/TaB content thinking "how bad can it be" as it truly was just that dreadful with X3/RS40. And with last years models too.


Playing devil's advocate for a moment: How much do you think your X3 lamp has dimmed since you've owned it and do you think that this has had any effect on ghosting? I'm glad to hear that you find the new model an improvement (I've got an X35 ordered to replace a HD350 myself), but I often wonder how much of the new projector's improvement is also down to lamp dimming on the old one (especially as the X3's lamp is well known for premature dimming).
Edited by Kelvin1965S - 11/23/12 at 3:18am
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post #1229 of 4155
11/23/12 at 3:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

Ok, obviously you should take zombie's word over mine as he's done direct comparison & I'm going based off of memory of the W7000 from a few months ago.
I'm comparing (from memory) the brightness of the opening sequence (in 3D) of Crysis 2 on a PS3. I remember it being so dark on the W7000 I could barely see where I was going; not so on the Sony. I must've had the W7000 in some unfair mode; I can't remember.
While we're on the subject: 3D gaming is a no-go on the Sony. The ghosting is ridiculous. Pretty sure it was fine on the W7000. It's so bad on the Sony it barely makes sense, since movies aren't this bad. I'm wondering if it's b/c it's a 60p framepacked signal, as opposed to 24p framepacked. I'm assuming the latter plays at 48Hz, while the 60p signal plays at 120Hz. At 120Hz, I bet the SXRD chips can't possibly keep up w/ the L/R frames flashing so quickly, hence the ridiculous ghosting.
Literally, PS3 games in 3D are completely unplayable on the HW50ES b/c of ghosting. And I'm willing to bet it's b/c it's 60p frame-packed. I wish there were an option in games for 24p framepacked for 3D games. There's no reason the games should have THAT much more ghosting than 3D 24p movies, which are still quite enjoyable on the HW50.
I tried both Crysis 2 & Uncharted 3 in stereoscopic 3D. Both completely unplayable in 3D.
Which reminds me: if Sony were more like Apple, they wouldn't have even allowed for such a poor presentation of stereoscopic 3D with a SONY PS3 & a SONY projector. Seriously, if the tech hasn't evolved enough, don't even enable it... even though I got a taste of how glorious stereoscopic 3D gaming could be, a lot of other people may be completely turned off by the experience.

Hi, what does the info screen of the HW50 say? If 60p framepacked it could only be 720p, because in 1080 the HW50 can not show 60p FP, only 24p FP.

With 24p FP material the projector shows 96 fps (24*2 per eye), with 60p material, the projectors shows 120 fps (60*1 per eye).

I've got no PS3 nor any 60p FP material so I can't test it.

Is it possible to set the PS3 to a 50p output? There the rate would be 100fps which is not so different from 96 fps, but then again you'll have more flicker.
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post #1230 of 4155
11/23/12 at 3:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Playing devil's advocate for a moment: How much do you think your X3 lamp has dimmed since you've owned it and do you think that this has had any effect on ghosting? I'm glad to hear that you find the new model an improvement (I've got an X35 ordered to replace a HD350 myself), but I often wonder how much of the new projector's improvement is also down to lamp dimming on the old one (especially as the X3's lamp is well known for premature dimming).
I meant to put in the previous post that yesterday I specially tried to pick test movies that I remembered showing ghosting most clearly when my X3 was new; namely the Imax Space Station (could verember very well ghosting on the high contrast space parts in X3) and IMAX Under the Sea, those were among the very first 3D movies I had for my X3 and while I enjoyed/watched the Under the Sea a lot it always showed ghosting quite clearly, even when X3 was right out of the box. Also, I fully closed the iris to -15 in high lamp on the X55 to do a rudimentary test on lamp dimming and watched like that for some time. Still no ghosting shown. This was totally against what I expected. I was using old IR based JVC 3D X55 googles btw so the improvement is on the projector, not glasses. After what early report promised about JVC 3D improvements last year and what was actually delivered I did not expect much from 3D and was very surprized positively on what I saw.

My setup is 110" Stewart ST130 G3 on about minimum throw so I'm getting quite ok brightness from the JVCs. If the promize of much slower lamp dimming holds I know I will be very happy camper with with my upcoming X55.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout 2012-2013