Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout... - Page 45

Zombie, your comments above comparing the HW30 to HW50 indicate better brightness. I think the published specs are about 30%. Can you comment a little more in this regard. Was it really that much brighter without sacrificing proper color balance? Thanks for all your efforts in this shootout. Very valuable insight.

My LPE filter for the 5010/5020 6010/6020 finally came today! Sure looks like the real deal. I'll be starting up a thread with a complete analysis using an i1 Pro and Calman 5. Much thanks to AndyK48 for the translation of the instructions!!! Supposedly, according to the instructions, it bumps the native contrast on the 5010 up to 5000 from 4300. Also, the claim is around 1200 color correct lumens--in ECO. over 1600 in Normal lamp. I'll start the study when my new 5010 gets here in a couple days.

Wilco.

This is surprising to hear. Did you make sure that both projectors were in the same lamp mode? The HW50 is supposed to be a very bright projector. Also, the new glasses are supposed to be brighter however for me I'm not sure how much added brightness I would see over the RS45 as I'll still be staying IR with my Xpand X104s as the new JVC glasses would be expensive to replace 6 pairs.

This would be nice to know if true. I viewed an RS50 at a semi-local dealer back when it first came out and comparing if from memory to what I would see on my RS2 on an HP screen they both looked on par even though the RS50 should have been a slight improvement (which it very well may have been but I couldn't tell the difference without a side by side comparison). If this is true, it might be worth a change for me as even though black levels are of the utmost priority I don't like the JVCs w/o FI now that I've grown accustomed to using it. I see too much breaking up in the picture without FI and in 3D it looks bad. I can see why many do not like FI because it makes movies look like video however in my mind 3D is different as the effect is to make the experience more lifelike which looks move like video than film .

Glad I held out for a r46 so far atleast

That is very encouraging! I had not seen that before now and appreciate you posting it. They are either talking about Patagonia or Dinosaurs Alive (any other dinosaur discs I dont know about?) Either way, it sounds like a good sign for blu ray 3d.

Have you by any chance measured the lumens behind the glasses? I really do remember the W7000 being significantly less bright in 3D, & I'm wondering if that has to do with the glasses. Then BenQ doesn't have a lamp pulsing mode like the Sony, after all.

Thanks.

Zombie where has coder been?

I feel that I have to stress this point really. re the Sony HW50 - I watched Puss In Boots 3D with FI on last night, looked great - BUT prospective owners should know that with live action material, for me at least, it's far far too aggressive. I love it in low mode on 2D but to me the soap opera effect is too strong in 3D. I'd recommend people demo if FI is important to them in 3D. Just tried The Avengers in 3D and I can't watch it with FI on, it looks like those badly set up TV's in stores where everything is set to max. For me a crucial point is that low and high look the same - I'm by no means an expert but Zombie, do you think it's possible that low mode hasn't been set properly and somewhere in the service menu there is an option to tweak it?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Hi, I can confirm that the FI with the HW50 in low mode looks stronger in 3D than in 2D, one could say more "soapy". But it's a thing of getting used to it..

Since the projector does 48 Hz per eye with 24p 3D material, it can only process one interpolated frame per eye. So the only difference between low and high could be at which speed of motion the projector creates interpolated frames or not.

I wished there would be official statements of the manufacturers how exactly their FIs work (but of course they'll regard that as intellectual property..)

I'm looking forward to see "The Hobbit" in 3D and 48fps in cinema in a few weeks to see if it'll also look soapy..

It seems that my initial impression of 3D on the new JVC's are being backed up by early reviews. I saw the prototypes at the CEDIA show in Sept and brought Sammy with me to try. On Sat morning I got to the show early when they were not busy and got the JVC people to try Sammy in 3D. They only had the old glasses so I can't comment on how things will look with the new ones. That being said, I feel that there was much less ghosting that with the previous models. We played about 10 minutes of Sammy's Adventure and I could hardly notice the ghosting on the trees and the start of the film. It is really noticeable on the older models. I did not check for flicker which was also a problem with last years models. After leaving the JVC booth I also tried Sammy on the Mits 8000 and as expected there was no ghosting at all.
The 3D picture on Sammy looked very good. Waiting for Zombie's reviews.

That's a really good point re. The Hobbit. I do recall Zombie saying however that the FI in 3D mode ('low') on the HW30 wasn't as strong, so something has apparently changed. I would love to know if it could be tweaked.

Speaking of Hobbits, will any of these projectors be able to handle Peter Jackson's new HFR 3D filmed at 48pmI wonder?

Good question

pml?

The panels would be able to show 48fps per eye (since this is whats going on at the moment with 24p "double flash" as well) but there is a) no HDMI-standard for 1080 48p framepacked an b) no Bluray standard for that format either.

720 50p framepacked would be possible (with a small speedup from 48 to 50 fps) or 1080 50p SBS. Both would have lower resolution and you don't really want that...

I think the Hobbit-movies will be released as normal 1080 24p framepacked Blurays. Switch on the FI in 3D with the Sony and you'll get your 48fps...

This is an interesting question: Will real 48fps material look different than the 24p version of it (and there will be 24p versions of the Hobbit in cinemas, 2D as well as 3D) with an activated FI?

Not that it fully answers your question, but you can get tickets now in 4 favors. Standard 2D, RealD 3D, IMAX 3D and HFR 3D. I doubt they'll use FI in a theater since true HFR is an option and only offered in select theaters that support it (like Dolby Atmos which I still have yet to hear).

you misunderstood.
I didn't refer to commercial cinemas with the FI-comment. cinemas never-ever would use any image-"improvements" like FI or DI (that is why most cinema DLP-projectors only have an on/off CR of about 2000:1).
I thought of the true 48fps version of the movie in cinema against the 24p version of it in home cinema with an FI.

by the way: The Hobbit will only be in 3D in HFR (high frame rate, 48fps), not in 2D. And also there will be no 4k versions of the film either.
Formats that the Hobbit will be distributed in:
35 mm analogue (24fps of course)
2D 2k 24fps
3D 2k 24fps
3D 2k 48fps (HFR)

and well, also the so called IMAX-version, which is also only a specially processed version of the film, and it's also only in 2k 3D and probably 48fps. (The digital IMAX today is not real IMAX anymore.. just google "Liemaxx"....)

real D, that you mentioned, is not a digital movie format, it's only one of the different techniques used in cinema to show 3D content. There's also Dolby 3D, Xpand (Shutter) and special variants of real D, like real D XLS with the Sony projectors.

From everything I've read here if I were to update I'd buy an Epson 6020. It has to be the best bang for the buck. I'm still amazed at what the 6010 will do, so I'll probably stay the course for another year, but who knows.

I don't really like the FI, especially in 3D. But I just checked out Toy Story 3 with the FI on low on the w7000 and it looked excellent. Then, I looked at a little of Finding Nemo in 3D with it on and it looked much better too. Maybe I need to use it more often. Can't wait until my Oppo 103 gets here tomorrow so I can use the 2D-3D conversion to calibrate 3D.

You hit on a good point here that I keep coming back to as well which is flicker. Some of us are at a point where flicker bothers us as much as ghosting. From what we know of the new JVCs as far as same 120hz panels, etc......is there any reason to believe flicker will be improved at all? Even if the ghosting has been improved, flicker is still going to rear its ugly head on the new models which is a big negative for those sensitive to this. Throw in lack of FI (which is subjective I know, but something a lot of us enjoy and would like to have especially with the JVC motion) and I can only get so excited about 3d on the JVCs.

There is also the 120hz 3d issue which we have heard nothing about on the new models. This is the area that the JVC units are by far the weakest at with 3d. I am very curious to hear if any improvement has been made here.

As far as FI goes and for those who have seen both, how does low mode 3 on the JVC compare to low on the 7000? Is one more aggressive vs the other or are they similar?

Where can I find this 3D demo disc?

Thanks.

I am looking into buying a media player that plays back ISO 3D files. I'm using the AIOS HD Media Center for my 2D play backs now.