Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout... - Page 56

Lol it does make my 4g data plan go up

Well after quite a bit of thought I'm at the point where I need to make a decision. The RS46, HW50, or the VW95? I've seen the HW50 but not in an ideal setting. This evening I decided to put aside any pride and hit the local dealer again armed and ready to view. I brought Spider-Man, Iron Man 2, and The Amazing Spider-Man 3D with each movie for a specific test. The door to this room is glass so ambient light shines in but this time I brought two black curtains and the local store let me drape the curtains such that I closed the door and blocked the ambient light. A small amount of light was still coming from the neon blue lights off of two amplifiers which likely affected the picture very slightly but this time the room was ready for some testing.

My current Setup
JVC RS45 with roughly a 17'10" throw onto a Dalite 2.4 gain 119" 16:9 HP screen. The projector's lens is mounted ~5'. I have a low ceiling ~7.5' painted flat black with dark wall and black curtains in the front portion of the room but with light tan carpet. A nearby soffit is close as are two speaker columns which certainly wouldn't help with light reflection.

Local Store Setup
Sony HW50 roughly 15' throw onto a 100" 16:9 Stewart? Screen (uncertain of the gain). Similar room size with light colored ceiling tiles, Navy blue wall, and Maroon carpet. Ceiling was roughly 9 foot and the room width was slightly narrow.

Frame Interpolation
While Iron Man was a MUCH better movie than IM2 I used the Monaco scene to see how well the FI held up. I tested the Low and the Hi mode and I was pleased to see very little artifacts and smooth motion. Low mode didn't seem to inject too much of a video look while High was much more aggressive but still looked very clean. Overall, motion looked better than my RS45.

3D
My plan wasn't to specifically look for ghosting as quite frankly I feel that Zombie's tests are very detailed in this area and that there are enough similar comments out that I feel confident that the Sony is a good 3D performer. I've seen the HW30 last year and it looked nice. I'm likely not overly sensitive to flicker but it is noticeable to me on my JVC and besides the awful ghosting motion looks poor to me (I'm sure partially because I like more aggressive FI). Having said that I decided to test The Amazing Spider-Man in 3D. On my JVC the picture is dim in 3D and I see a bit of black crush. I'm typically one who chooses the most accurate factory setting the out of box and adjusts the very basic calibrations and such. Not only is FI disabled in 3D on the JVC but gamma adjustments on the RS45 are also grayed out. Since The Amazing Spider-Man is a darker / dimmer 3D movie I wanted to see how the HW50 handled it. After viewing a handful of scenes it's definitely a dimmer movie for 3D but it still looked very watchable on the Sony and I can see the movie looking MUCH better on a Dalite HP screen.

IMO, FI in 3D mode is a game changer. Motion was much more fluid and while flicker may have been present it looked so much better than what I'm seeing on my JVC. Blacks did look better on the JVC in comparison however to my eyes FI is much more important.
NOTE: When I looked at 3D in the store I forgot to see what setting the glasses were using. My 3D viewing of my RS45 is with my Xpand X104 glasses with the default settings which I can't compare to the Sony glasses I used in the store demo because I forgot to check what brightness level the Sony glasses were set at. A lower setting may have yielded blacker blacks in dark scenes. Oops!
I've read that many prefer the motion of the Sony without FI but the difference from having FI turned on and FI turned off was night and day.

Black Levels / Contrast

This is a tougher comparison to make since I have to compare by memory as well as the fact that the Sony is throwing onto what is likely a 1.1 gain screen while my viewing experience is an RS45 projecting onto a Dalite HP screen.

Having said that on bright scenes and semi bright scenes I didn't find myself missing the JVC when testing the Sony in this environment. Even on the non-gain screen the picture seemed about as bright and punchy as it did on the JVC/HP. Also, when the screen went completely blank black levels seemed to be just as good as my HP. Also, when only the Sony BD Menu was on screen (which is a black background with white text) black levels look just as good as my JVC and I didn't find myself unsatisfied in the least.

Now the tougher part. I'm pretty picky about black levels. Years ago I got into this hobby by purchasing a 61" Samsung DLP HDTV which had atrocious black levels and poor shadow detail. The scene that really hit me was the bridge scene in the first Raimi Spider-Man film. When MJ Watson is left on the bridge and the camera pans up the beams on the bridge can disappear if the image being viewed doesn't have good black levels. Also, much of this particular chapter will expose if a projector doesn't have good black levels. When I played this chapter I found that the HW50 handled this chapter fairly well. This is one area when I would have to say that black levels didn't look quite as good as the JVC. Details may not have looked quite as bright but the black levels looked like they could be a little better. I am picky. I have my iris set to -15 and I did set it to -7 as many do, and in this particular scene the difference is noticeable to me.

Sharpness

I don't have many comments other than to say the HW50 looked sharp to my eyes with RC set low like has already been mentioned. In general, I think the HP screen gives a higher perceived sharpness likely due to the increased brightness, but my guess is the HW50 would look similarly sharp to what I see on my JVC if it were to be placed in my home.

My Take

My projector is used for 100% movies. I probably one watch 1-2 movies per week and out of those movies is a high percentage of animated movie. Having said that most viewing is 2D but the percentage of 3D movies in my collection is growing. I typically watch movies like Marvel and such in 2D simply because they look much better in 2D on my JVC. However, with a good motion I may start watching some of these movies in 3D instead. I consider myself fairly picky about black levels but poor motion in 3D is a show stopper for me and for my taste even though 3D will be much better on the JVCs with the lessened crosstalk the issues with motion will not be addressed this year. This was not the case in the Sony. Motion looks very good on the Sony. The JVC has better contrast in 3D but for my taste the motion still takes from the experience. Unless I wake up feeling differently tomorrow I think I'm going to pursue the route of either the HW50 or the VW95 and hope that I don't regret it.
Edited by xb1032 - 12/8/12 at 4:57pm

Atleast you have local stores to do this

Zombie,

Just a couple questions if you could answer:

1. Have you seen 3D on the VW95? If so, how does brightness compare to the present JVCs in 3D? I know the HW50 will be a bit brighter but I'm wondering if brightness is as good or better to the current JVCS? I will be reading what reviews I can find but any additional opinions is appreciated.

2. If you have Spider-Man would you mind comparing the scene from the 1:39 mark to roughly 1:43 on the HW50 vs the RS55(or the RS46) mark and just state if black levels are noticeably darker on the JVCs? Comparing from memory I think the JVC with the iris at -15 (or -11 in your case) will be slightly but noticeably blacker. I'd love to be wrong, but I think my memory serves me correctly. I assume that this is where the benefit of the higher native CR without the use of an iris comes into play.

True and bringing in the curtains helped immensely. Luckly no other customers were around wondering what this idiot is doing!

xb1032, It seems like your movie experience = black level. Otherwise you wouldn't be so concerned about it even though yourself pointed out more positive features on the sony compared to jvc and the only thing lacking a little bit is black level. To me this wouldn't any contest at all if getting the same results as you. It's not like it's a dlp like grey blacks, I'm guessing from other people experience that we are talking about just minor disadvantage here. Also, because of the way better 3d than in your jvc, you would enjoy more 3d movies, which would level the playfield anyways.

Good feedback as I made the call to order an X35 last night: I don't care about 3D, so I saved an extra £300 by not buying the 3d glasses and emitter with the JVC, but I also found that the Sony zoom is too big for my screen, so is out of the running regardless. As I'm also concerned about black level, I'm pleased to hear that you could spot a difference as I would like to get the best black level I can afford.

Sammy 2 for those interested.

Movie - 5/10
Video - 8/10
3D - 9/10

Once again all the 3D rules are tossed out the window and for those that like animated sea creatures in the middle of their rooms they'll be pleased. It seemed to me that there are more scenes of things protruding into the room than the first movie and that one was exceptional.

Yes, black level is a very high priority to me but motion is becoming just as important. I'm an oddball around here as I like FI even in movies. For the most part, I really have no complaint about 2D on my RS45. It's a fantastic 2D projector. If I didn't like 3D I could probably skip an upgrade this year. On my HP 2.4 gain screen the pic is nice and bright with excellent contrast. The average person would be more than satisfied with the Sony's and quite frankly I'm guessing that I probably would as well if I already weren't accustomed to the black levels on the Sony.

I really wish I could have done a side by side comparison so that I could make a fair judgement call but this is the best that I could come up with. I forgot to note that my JVC probably had a couple hundred more hours on the bulb than the Sony. From what I saw yesterday I would say they were pretty close in most scenes but in the dark scenes in Spider-Man the JVC seemed to maintain better black levels but also keep in mind that I run my manual iris on the JVC at -15. I have demoed this same scene at home using two different picture modes with one mode having the iris at -15 and the other at -7 and to my eyes the difference the black level difference if close yet very obvious to my eyes in the Spider-Man scenes. This is where I have to try to read between the lines when reviewers and other people post. However, when I first popped in the Spider-Man disc and the menu came up the scenes running off the menu might have even looked as good or possibly even showed more contrast than my JVC. Very impressive in some scenes.

My unscientific guess is that the difference between the JVC and other projectors in this class is the manual iris. If I were one who ran the JVC's iris at -7 or higher the difference between JVCs black levels and the HW50 might not be as noticeable when we are referring to darker scenes. Again, this is just a guess on my part and in my case my screen size and screen type allows me to run the RS45 this way. I tried the manual iris on the Sony running this specific dark scene and while I see a slight difference on the JVC I didn't see much on the Sony. What I saw more than anything was the dimming of details in the darker portions of the screen which in a sense made the darker areas look not quite as dark.

Anyway, that's my unscientific take. I haven't seen the VW95 so I cannot comment there but if I were going to have a 2D only projector I would take the JVC over the Sony. If JVC would have enable FI in 3D mode this year I'd be getting the RS46 no questions asked (assuming crosstalk has been significantly reduced as so far it seems that is the case thankfully).

Enjoy your new X35! I'm sure you will.

I know this is a bit of a long shot, but if anyone here is planning on creating a constant aspect version of TDKR on their CPU, PLEASE shoot me a PM as I would be very interested in getting a copy! Watched this movie last night and really enjoyed it, great audio, etc.....but the variable aspect was HORRIBLE using the zoom method on my 2.35 screen. Every time the frame opens up to 1.78, and there are 72(!!) minutes total in this film where it does this is very distracting as it spills over the top/bottom of the viewable image area onto the wall. This would not be a problem if my RS45 had enough masking range to take care of this, but it doesn't........not even close. Why in the world JVC would not include enough masking range to deal with this on a lens memory projector that is geared toward CIH users using the zoom method is baffling to me. Even the new models STILL wont have this. Of course I could add a VP to take care of this, but considering there are only 3 films where you have to deal with variable aspect so far (Tron Legacy, DK and DKR..........Transf 2 has the option of constant aspect or variable) I am not going to spend the $$$ adding a VP. I think this is a negative worth mentioning as far as the JVCs go for any CIH zoomer out there considering one. Certainly not a deal breaker by any means unless you were also considering a competitor (does the Sony 95 have enough range for this?), but worth mentioning all the same.

Sorry for the somewhat off topic post, but I know a LOT of people are reading this thread right now and some of you will be doing the poor mans zoom method and maybe someone reading this will be creating a CIH friendly version of the movie. If so, please shoot me a PM.

Thanks!
Edited by Toe - 12/7/12 at 8:54am

X35/RS46 Revocation

Translate:

We have just received the information that the cause for the 3D playback problem at the currently supplied X was found 35 series.The solution is a software update, which but not can be performed by the customer. Thats no bad will on the part of JVC but purely technically justified. It must be removed for the update of the housing cover and a specially modified cable is required.We are our customers, who have gotten their device in the last few days, in the course of today inform and then you can get a pick up.The JVC service from the middle of next week will perform the software updates.We will again deliver our equipment only with the new SW version in the near future.We are for more information.

http://www.grobi-shop.tv/showpost.php?id=2172
Edited by szepi0808 - 12/7/12 at 10:47am

What "3D playback problem" are they referring to? I haven't tried 3D on my X35 yet as I don't have the emitter or glasses yet.

high levels of ghosting

The X35 series has serious ghosting problems? I don't think that has been noted on AVS yet.

buddy when considering 2d image, which projector do you find best between HW50 and epson 5020 and why?

Thanks!

I was told that there is very little difference in the glasses at the CEDIA show in Sept. In fact at one of the JVC booths they were using the old glasses since they had only one pair of the new ones available. Love to hear how the ghosting and flicker is with the new projectors and how the Xpand and MV glasses work. Know you will put them through the torture tests with Sammy and other films that show a lot of ghosting on many projectors. Good luck with the tests tonight.

I've only seen the 5020 once in a room that wasn't completely darkened so I can't really give an opinion. Many reviews say these two projectors are pretty close in many areas. If you read back earlier in this thread there should be some helpful information provided. Projectorreviews.com also has some comparisons on these 2 projectors as well.

For those who don't have a set level of expectations I would make my decision based on cost and personal preferences. My personal preference is going to lean towards a projector with the best black levels and contrast which for 2D only would be the JVC RS46/X35. For 3D I want better motion and this is one area I feel the JVCs lack because FI isn't enabled in 3D (nor is it enabled for 3D in the Epson).

As Zombie10k noted in his findings the differences between the 5010 and 5020 is minimal with most differences being seen in 3D. Having said that you may want to consider a closeout 5010 which will likely be $1k-$2k cheaper than the Sony HW50.

Just my 2 cents, hope that helps.

Thanks. My biggest concern with the VW95 is the brightness as I'm not really sure what to expect. I'm glad you pointed out the crosstalk because I've read a number of opinions and reviews and there seems to be mixed feeling about crosstalk on the VW95. There's not been many complaints about crosstalk on the HW30 had and I've also read that the HW50 is slight improvement over the HW30 in this regard.

That would be great to hear your impressions of the RS46 vs the HW50 in that scene. Looking forward to hearing your findings on the crosstalk on the RS46 as well and I'm sure many are anxious to hear your results. I have 6 pairs of X104's so for me I'm glad to hear those impressions.

Thanks for all your efforts!

Anxiously waiting for JVC reports. If the 3d isn't substantially improved I'm likely going with the Sony 50. If it is I may spend the extra and get in on the pre-buy on the JVC4810. Gotta make a decision soon though. The pre buy doen't last much longer.

Congrats Kelvin! You still planning on changing your sig line then (no lens)?

That's awesome Jason. I hope you have time to figure out lumens in both 2d and 3d between the Sony and JVC. Really interested in how much of a measured difference there is vs. perception.

DAYS!?!?!?

Yeah, I hope not. I want the news now on the motion and 3D compared to HW50.

Hours please!!!

I was hoping for something tonight

Let the man take his time! Jeez. Haha.

My 46 won't be here until Tuesday so ill be living through zombie this weekend

Wow that lens cover is Ugg-a-lee!

Good luck dude... any ETA on your x55?