AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout 2012-2013
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Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout... - Page 60

post #1771 of 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

There's very interesting comments about Sony HW50 3D from hdtvtest site.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-vpl-hw50es-review-201212042380.htm?page=Picture%20Quality
Can anybody test about this in 3D?

Oh that's very interesting. Thanks for the link. I wish they described their test pattern better.

I'm wondering if what they're saying is that the 120Hz switching is actually a little too fast for the panels to switch from black to white, hence ghosting which can, in turn, affect the MTF of patterns?

Maybe this is why we all find the need to crank RC up higher in 3D than in 2D...
post #1772 of 4160
Quote:
Oh that's very interesting. Thanks for the link. I wish they described their test pattern better.

The pattern is just horizontal and vertical resolution checks with single-pixel white and black lines. The HW50 does not resolve these.

(The pattern also has variations of the same thing with different luminance levels to catch out Plasma displays which draw some subfields at lessened resolution, like the "Full HD 3D" Panasonics).
post #1773 of 4160
At the moment my 6010 is working just fine. I'll give it a hug and just keep it thanks very much! Upgrading is such a dilemma with all the reports of issues with just about every projector discussed in this thread, including the Epsons. Maybe I got lucky. Touch wood.
post #1774 of 4160
Can someone please tell me how to test for convergence and focus on a jvc? Thanks
post #1775 of 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_hs10 View Post

Can someone please tell me how to test for convergence and focus on a jvc? Thanks

Download the AVS test disc / patterns here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration
post #1776 of 4160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris View Post

The pattern is just horizontal and vertical resolution checks with single-pixel white and black lines. The HW50 does not resolve these.

(The pattern also has variations of the same thing with different luminance levels to catch out Plasma displays which draw some subfields at lessened resolution, like the "Full HD 3D" Panasonics).

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-vpl-hw50es-review-201212042380.htm?page=Picture%20Quality

David, thanks for the great info in your review. I had a few quick questions / comments.

Are you running those patterns in the 2D -> 3D conversion or is this a frame packed 3D source? Regarding the comment on the 3D resolution, I noticed last year my HW30 was the only projector I reviewed that looked a little soft in 3D compared to the JVC, Epson, BenQ, etc. I'm projecting on a 142" screen so sharpness stands out here (for good or for bad). The HW50 with the RC in 3D seems to counteract the effect I was seeing on the HW30 and overall looks quite good in 3D.

I'm curious if you've run the resolution test on the JVC projectors. They look naturally sharp in 3D, similar to my experience with the 3D DLPs.




3D Calibration - I don't recall this being discussed much in the past. The color shift with the 3D glasses is something that always bothered me with 3D and takes away from the overall presentation since my brain knows I am looking through tinted glasses and color that isn't right. I figured it could be calibrated out with the glasses in front of the meter.

Your before / after 3D calibration looks very similar to my results as well with red being way down before the calibration. I had to pull back green and blue quite a bit to compensate.


"After calibration through the active-shutter glasses to essentially remove the tint they add to the picture, the Sony VPL-HW50 produced some of the best 3D video we’ve seen to date. Even before calibration, it was no slouch.

If you’ve seen projected 3D video calibrated, you’re in a very fortunate position, because the practice isn’t widespread. The improvement calibration made on the Sony VPL-HW50ES was huge, though, and honestly has to be seen to be believed. We’re sure that most of our readers have had the experience of sitting in a cinema and pulling polarised 3D glasses in and out of their view and noting that the colours never look completely right either way. After seeing so many compromised cinema presentations of 3D films, watching them naturally coloured on a high quality, calibrated home projector like the VPL-HW50ES is really special. In our case, we tinted the picture coming out of the projector to be overly red, so that it would look correct seen through the glasses (we covered the process in the calibration section on the previous page)."


I'm glad you found the same positive results. The last HW50 I calibrated looked excellent through the glasses with 'people' movies (non-animations).


White field uniformity - our experience here differs a bit, I've only seen 2 HW50's so far, but both were relatively consistent with white field and gray field uniformity. Definitely better than the Epson's I've seen recently. I think the JVC's usually lead in this area.

Reality Creation- you have a good perspective on reality creation. I agree that each year there is an expectation of new features. This year it was reality creation for Sony, Super Resolution for Epson (a leftover from last year) and E-shift 2 for the JVC's. Plus we have the Darbee which has been wildly popular even with video purists. Each technology attempts to create sharper image in their own unique way.

All of these processing techniques are acquired tastes, but they seem popular with the masses so far. I like using the reality creation with the setting at minimum on the resolution since I sit relatively close @ 1.25 from the 142" 16:9.

This is a great review, everyone interested in the HW50 should take the time to read it.
post #1777 of 4160
Thread Starter 
FYI -RS4810's are shipping from AVScience today. 2 full weeks to spare before X-mas for those that got their pre-orders in early. smile.gif
post #1778 of 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

FYI -RS4810's are shipping from AVScience today. 2 full weeks to spare before X-mas for those that got their pre-orders in early. smile.gif

Yes, I am just hoping that when my RS46 gets here Thursday, I don't have to turn around and send it back out for the update to fix that issue with 3D IF there is one and IF it's affecting the RS46 like the X35 (EU Version).
post #1779 of 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

FYI -RS4810's are shipping from AVScience today. 2 full weeks to spare before X-mas for those that got their pre-orders in early. smile.gif

What would you consider early? Lol
post #1780 of 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris View Post

The pattern is just horizontal and vertical resolution checks with single-pixel white and black lines. The HW50 does not resolve these.
(The pattern also has variations of the same thing with different luminance levels to catch out Plasma displays which draw some subfields at lessened resolution, like the "Full HD 3D" Panasonics).

Thanks David. And great review, by the way.

A few questions:
  1. Is it your opinion that this drop in resolution is due to the panels not responding fast enough? What else could cause it? I would've expected the Epsons/Panasonics to have more issues with resolution in 3D, given that they use an interlaced method in 3D according to cine4home.de.
  2. This FPD Benchmark disk: where can I get it? I'd love to test motion resolution with this.
  3. I'm surprised you found DFI usable with 24p content. The flicker is terrible; I feel like it's actually 24Hz flicker, not even frame-doubled 48Hz flicker. If I enable 3:2 pulldown of 24p content to 60p, the flicker is much less objectionable. Isn't there some way Sony could frame double/triple/quadruple & play 24p at 96Hz with DFI? Wouldn't that reduce the perceived flicker? Can you ask/communicate this to Sony? Good catch, by the way, on the weird sharpening introduced by DFI. I've also noticed it.

Thanks in advance. Cheers!
post #1781 of 4160
Hello.

I ordered Sony HW50 because venture with Epson Tw9100 didn’t go well. Have two questions :

- I have universal celling mount from Vogels, can I use it with Sony HW50 ? It was OK for Epson and others PJ before, so question is, did sony have also standard holes for screws placing on the bottom ?
- How is 3D on Sony comparing it to Epson 5020, is it worse, dimmer or on par ?

Best regards,

Tozo
post #1782 of 4160
Gave Mike my CC info today. Pre-ordered 4810 early so hopefully I will be included in the first shipped batch. Unfortunately the emitter and glasses orders are running behind so may not be having a 3D Christmas:)
post #1783 of 4160
Can we use the old emitter and glasses from rs45 or the monster vision rf glasses?
post #1784 of 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_hs10 View Post

Can we use the old emitter and glasses from rs45 or the monster vision rf glasses?

Yes to both questions. The old JVC emitter will work along with the MV emitter. You might want to check out Zombe's adapter so that both can work at the same time.
post #1785 of 4160
Posted a couple of X55 through the 3D glasses photos of challenging scenes to the X55 thread. Like said before, IMO X55 is quite good in terms of ghosting

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1424180/jvc-dla-rs48-dla-x55-projector-with-3d-rf-glasses-and-e-shift-cedia-2012/570#post_22686529
post #1786 of 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

They certainly did like the 1000 as well. For the $$, i'd like to see much more 3D lumens vs. the current 5K and under projectors. I imagine if they did a V2.0 next year, it might have the lamp pulsing tech.
what projector did you end up with?

zombie10k


I agree about the lumens , for now ( still ) we can use all the extra lumens in 3D, the projectors can give us - but it seems to go in the right direction, ( and anyway, thats partly why the High gain screens is invented biggrin.gif )

Sadly there isnt going to come a 95ES+ for the next year or so, after what I hear ( the next exciting model is far out into the future says "rumors" wink.gif - and a V2.0 is not forthcoming either frown.gif

redface.gif Im not "ended" up yet ! - but my favorite is still the 1000ES ( and now the software version in it, begin to look more "implemented" ), I havent seen anything better then that yet picture wise ( and if I did, I couldnt afford it biggrin.gif )



For now, I have buyed a new screen ( Screen Research CP2 AT 2.40:1 , 0.95 gain, E-mask, 110" wide + the frame , cant get it bigger/wider, because my room is only 1,2 cm ( 0,5" ? ) wider total eek.gif
and when sitting about 1 x screen wide size back ( first row ), about 2,8 m, I dont like the picture height bigger ( we / I need the subtitles for full understanding redface.gif, ), because then I begin to have to look up/down

My plan is to use my old high gain screen too ( for 3D only ) , but it depends on,if I do get the 1000ES and how much light I can squeeze out off it on my allmost neutral gain screen ( when I did test the 1000 on my little smaller Studiotek in 3D, the picture brightness was ok, but I do like it to be very bright in 3D, like you smile.gif, and then there is no way around the extra high gain screen ( but thats okay, I like two screens solutions better then a two projector solution ! )

How is going with the new JVC ? ( BTW. impressive testing you are doing, I like to read your results smile.gif and a lot off people appreciate hopefully you time consulting "work" although I think and hope, you primarily do it for you self and for fun cool.gif anyway thanks for sharing it with us smile.gif

dj
Edited by d.j. - 12/10/12 at 3:59pm
post #1787 of 4160
I'm at work but mine arrived today. Mike at AVS was on top of all my questions will do
Business again.

post #1788 of 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

zombie10k
I agree about the lumens , for now ( still ) we can use all the extra lumens in 3D, the projectors can give us - but it seems to go in the right direction, ( and anyway, thats partly why the High gain screens is invented biggrin.gif )
Sadly there isnt going to come a 95ES+ for the next year or so, after what I hear ( the next exciting model is far out into the future says "rumors" wink.gif - and a V2.0 is not forthcoming either frown.gif
redface.gif Im not "ended" up yet ! - but my favorite is still the 1000ES ( and now the software version in it, begin to look more "implemented" ), I havent seen anything better then that yet picture wise ( and if I did, I couldnt afford it biggrin.gif )

dj, you are pretty certain there wouldn't be a VW95 v.2.0 ? If that's the case I will go ahead and get the HW50.
post #1789 of 4160
Thread Starter 
JVC RS 46 Lag time = 80MS, same as the RS45.

This shouldn't come as any surprise, I don't think there was any mention of improved lag times.

JVC-RS46-1.jpg

There is a NEW gaming champ in town.....

JVC-RS46-2.jpg


The QUMI pocket LED projector. biggrin.gif 20MS, that's pretty good!

JVC-RS46-3.jpg
post #1790 of 4160
Phew 80 I can't wait to see how much this gets me killed in black ops 2 lol
post #1791 of 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


There is a NEW gaming champ in town.....
The QUMI pocket LED projector. biggrin.gif 20MS, that's pretty good!

Yesss!! That little box of wonders is amazing! Reference gaming projector!! biggrin.gif Now, all we need is to stuff some D-ILA panels in it....
post #1792 of 4160
Thread Starter 
Mitsubishi HC8000 - Game Mode, IRIS = off, FI = off, 50 MS - similar to the W7000.

HC8000-2.jpg[img]
post #1793 of 4160
Speaking of input lag, I had 3M MP410 LED 300 lumen projector. My performance changed from being in the worst player to the top player immediately, although I used to play on TVs with 30ms lag. the bad thing about this is that the game became so boring and easy to play, and colors and contrast were not very good. Next I tried Playstation 3D Display and performance became bad again. I guess the projector image size made a difference too.
post #1794 of 4160
Thanks for the tests, Zombie! The picture of HC8000 got me excited already!
post #1795 of 4160
Zombie when you switch profiles like user 1, user 2, noramal, 3d, etc etc does your projector make a clicking noise? Is this normal
post #1796 of 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

Zombie when you switch profiles like user 1, user 2, noramal, 3d, etc etc does your projector make a clicking noise? Is this normal

My X35 does this if I have a different lens aperture setting for the profiles. Almost a short buzz if switching between two profiles that had 0 and -15. The noise was alarming at first until I realized that's what it probably was. If this is not normal, someone let me know please.
post #1797 of 4160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Thanks for the tests, Zombie! The picture of HC8000 got me excited already!

no problem. I really want to test the 3D but still waiting on Mitsubishi to send the transmitter and the 'high speed' shutter glasses.

The 2nd iris has a 'high contrast' setting, it doesn't look adjustable (at least not in the main menu). The light output drops noticeably when this iris in engaged.
post #1798 of 4160
There are a lot of gaming projectors under 20ms, not to derail this thread. But at 20ms and LED, you could probably purchase 5 QUMI's and move them into portrait mode. I think there are people on this forum looking to do that for an eyefinity setup.
post #1799 of 4160
http://www.cine4home.de/

JVC DLA-X 35 update: new firmware fixes 3D-Problem!
post #1800 of 4160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by szepi0808 View Post

http://www.cine4home.de/
JVC DLA-X 35 update: new firmware fixes 3D-Problem!

thanks for posting!

Translation from Cine4home:


In the last few weeks we have received several requests from readers wondered who had bought the recently released JVC DLA X35 or see in the show:

Contrary to our first preview results (see below), after which the 3D performance has improved significantly over its predecessor, it is the X35 become dramatically worse, with massive ghosting. If JVC in the series but does not deliver what was achieved in the previous series, or was there a production error?

This issue only affects the X35, but not the big brother X55, X75 or X95. This shows that there may be no fundamental technological problem. It remains only the question of whether there is a serious hardware failure in the series, or pure software.

We have pursued the matter further and directly with JVC contacted. Fortunately, there are clear: Over the firmware of the X35 series is the wrong timing of the glasses sync programming slipped in the wrong time for switching, making it the strong ghosting responsible.

The engineers have fixed the problem and now a firmware update program that can later be flashed in any X35 and eliminated the problem completely 3D. We were able to convince yourself: With the update, the X35 achieves the same good 3D Ergebnsse, as in pre-production model.

All owners who hope but now, download the update from the JVC website, and even flash in the projector can be disappointed: This update is only possible via a special interface, which can be opened for connecting the projector also has. In other words: An update is only available from JVC service.

The manufacturer regrets the mistake and promises to take care of as soon as possible to etwaig necessary updates. As of this week, no X35 with the firmware bug multiple delivered. New buyers still have access soothes, while all concerned are "early adopters" asked to contact their local dealer to order time-level update in conjunction. The JVC dealer trained care of this for you!

Also, we are now waiting for the updates of our test devices, so we our soon
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