Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout... - Page 85

My REFURB w7000 should be here next week, I'll let people know what I think. Price was good and it comes with 1.03 firmware, Zombie pointed it out to me (Thanks Z). We'll see if I'm still thanking him next week (j/k).
Haven't ordered the glasses yet...

Projector # 12 for me I think since 2006...
Edited by coderguy - 12/27/12 at 7:42pm

Dont give me any ideas! This projector is as close overall to 3d nirvana as I have seen (of course things like brightness could still be improved and I would love a more stable lens as well as improved sync with the glasses) and I am bound and determined to resolve this. Looks like I was able to improve and maybe fix the lens movement. Two toothpicks wedged in the joystick and a piece of velcro between the zoom ring and housing may be the ticket from my tests.

Just watched Sammys in 3d for the first time on the 7000 and WOW was that awesome! Great depth throughout and some amazing pop out moments. No hint of ghosting or flicker and once you throw in the FI......HOLY $HIT! I now know why Zombie and so many others have raved about this one.

Coder,

Good luck on your refurb. I went that route as well and while my first unit had a sharpness issue, my advanced replacement is excellent. So far, I am glad I went this route.
Edited by Toe - 12/27/12 at 10:05pm

By sharpness issue, do you mean it had a lens problem or just pre-1.03 firmware?

Good to know, I was going to go with a refurb Optoma hd8300 at first, but I missed the timeframe where they had them cheap. I kind of have buyer's remorse a little (just because the hd8300 was my first choice).

Hopefully you guys are right about the FI in 3D, that is why I bought the Benq, although the brightness is great, I am only on a 106" HP screen, so the hd8300 would have been plenty bright enough too in 3D. I figure the sub-par blacks shouldn't be too big of a deal, I mean I didn't buy it to watch space scenes (that's what the JVC is for), I bought it to watch bright 3D.

Both my machines have/had 1.03. The first unit had a sharpness uniformity issue where I could focus the center/right side of the screen well or the left side but not both. The replacement fixed this (BenQ covered all the shipping).

@Toe or @Zombie
The Benq's dynamic mode is pretty good right?
I assume I will need to keep the Benq in dynamic mode because I am so sensitive when I watch projectors with 4x color wheels unless I am watching only bright scenes with no black mixed in. On a 4x color wheel, I can even see rainbows in bright scenes somewhat (well only like if a guy was wearing a black leather jacket or a jet black car next to bright white or something). Still it's much worse in dark scenes.

The only regret I would have is if Sharp updated the firmware to include FI and then found out it could do 800+ lumens in 3D, then yah I'd want the Sharp instead.

Ahh, I know you're half-joking, but I am watching Fringe on my Pro8200 instead of the JVC right now. My cheap Pro8200 has 3000+ hours on it and I still get 14 fL calibrated lumens in ECO mode, how is that for a $500 refurb going 3000 hours on a lamp. I expect the Benq to beat the Viewsonic, so not too worried, it's my 2D workhorse replacement as well as my 3D. The main thing though is, I can actually watch some of my 3D movies without cringing from the ghosting. My RS-45 is completely a joke with 800 hours on it, saying the ghosting is bad doesn't even describe it, it is completely unwatchable now.
Edited by coderguy - 12/27/12 at 11:17pm

Nice! Glad you are enjoying the BK! I am still amazed how well it blends in with the sub and just seems like a natural extension.

The old saying is true, this forum is the most expensive place I ever visited. Geeze, now still have to buy a Lumagen, some b-kicker thing, replace HT speakers, get some super blacker than black materials, more 3D glasses.
When does it stop...
Edited by coderguy - 12/27/12 at 10:57pm

Both you err guys are getting old, it's menapause, nothing more, nothing less.

I do want to clear something else that zombie10K I think said.

My comments about Bluray 1080p be so vastly inferior to 2K and 4K DCI content and feeds. Zombie said what I was seeing, flaws in the bluray 1080p medium being visable on because of my superior projector, the 4K Sony VPL-vw1000ES and my reference quality Stewart Snomatt 100 screen.

That is not the reason. Its comparing DCI feeds to commercial 2K and 4K DCI machines and then viewing the same Bluray material on my 1000ES fed by Bluray 1080p. The greater bit depth and absence of edge enhancement compared to 8 bit and severely edge enhanced Bluray content. My comments thus are not dependent on the quality of the 1080p projectors compared to the 1000ES. The projectors under discussion in this thread are fine machines and for many are their proud possessions chosen in part because of the great information presented by zombie and verified and supllemented by many of the participants here. All these machines like any other machines have strengths and weaknesses. many caused by compromises necessitated because of the price points and some of course by the type of technology employed.

My comments go to the weaknesses of Blurays noticed by me and others whose cmpetence would be recognized by all if I were at liberty to identify them not posting here but who have posted in the past based on their observations of DCI content on their commerciasl quality msachines present in theirs HTs. I hope as the late president Kennedy once said, have I made myself perfectly clear?.

You are not lying..... I need black material now as well

I miss my old living room, 20+ foot vaulted ceiling so the PJ beam didn't even reflect off the ceiling (it was better than having a blacked out ceiling).
If I could build the ultimate HT room, it would be 50x50 with a 50 feet ceiling, that is the only way to get TRUE black. Although concentrated light does not diminish much, scattered light reflections go outward so in a large room the amount of light scatter that hits the walls and ceiling is very small (but it takes a gigantic room).

Mom, look at that 6 story house (no son the neighbor just built a new HT add-on ROOM).
Edited by coderguy - 12/27/12 at 11:13pm

Even my lowly x10 looks substantially better in the back yard than it does in the living room... of course, the audio is a different story.

I know there isn't objective! That's why I am waiting for your final review... The reason is that I love jvc's 2d and I hope that if with the new firmware fixed the 3d issue then this would be my next projector... 4810 is less brighter in the specs as well... 1300 ANSI for 46 1200 ANSI for 4810... That's the reason I am still hoping... By the end I believe that is better to have a projector with the best 2d possible and an acceptable 3d than the opposite. I prefer jvc to be as close as possible to sony's 3d than sony to be close to jvc's 2d! All this with the hope that after the new firmware rs46 will be like sony in terms of ghosting and a little bit less bright... I own 4000 original DVD and blueray.... Only 43 of them are 3d...
If you translate these reviews from France, they also mention that rs46 is brighter than 4810 ! 939 lumens vs 539!!!

http://www.audiovideohd.fr/tests/351-JVC-X35-5.html
http://www.audiovideohd.fr/tests/342-JVC-DLA-X55-5.html

Hi Mark,

So let's say I had a great source...like the red 4k player. Would we notice a better difference in quality when we play it on our 1080p PJ's>...since the blurays are hampered in quality.

I remember having run my Oppo BDP83 bluray player through my old SD PJ and noticed a difference in picture quality.

Are you planning to update your RS46 and give a report? So far, nobody has reported anything on lumen output with updated RS46/X35 switcher #s.

(which makes me wonder if it's worth the "update" if ghosting is improved at the expense of significant lumens ...)

I think I keep leaning towards the Sony with all things considered. I think it should work in my room alright. Now I just have to finish said room. Something tells me I'll be projecting onto a bed sheet for the first month or so until I get sheet-rock up.... just a sad (but probably true) prediction.

I’ve read every page here, and I just want to thank you Zombie for your efforts!
The research you’ve done and especially the ghosting screen shots are so much help to those of us looking for a good 3D projector experience.

I’m an older long-time film collector (16mm!!!) who mostly watches classic content and has a set-up that would make most of you here cringe. Super-long throw (23.4 feet!) and a 12-foot wide painted 1.1 gain screen for full scope (please don’t hate me!), but in a dedicated basement theater room with optimal light conditions, pretty much a “bat-cave” as those around here say, albeit an art-deco one.

I don’t really want the “giant plasma” effect, I’m just trying for a decent old-school film-like theatrical experience, and to me that means SIZE first. I want to be in my neighborhood cinema(s) from the 1960’s and early 70’s. I want to buy a good projector and have it run trouble free for at least 4 years (my last one I kept 7, can you imagine the amount of quality increase I saw on upgrading?) So I very much appreciate the obsessive dedication some of you guys here bring to all of this.

I have a JVC RS40 that I absolutely love, it’s actually bright enough for me in my set-up although I know it wouldn’t be for most here. I am a huge fan of the blacks and the super-smooth picture of D-ILA (I sit crazy close too, I break all the rules), but it recently stopped sending the 3D IR signal. Not the emitter, I tried a new one. Also starting to display an occasional glitch when I switch sources or modes where the image will go all green or sometimes all red/yellow for a second or two. So there’s trouble inside, but I’m still under warranty for another month so I’m sending her in.

BUT even I haven’t been happy with the brightness and ghosting for 3D on this, so here’s my excuse to look into the two-projector dedicated 3D route, because I’m also a serious 3D fan, and again, a big picture is essential to really experience 3D imho. I would go for the BenQ but I’m one who sees rainbows like crazy, and since the Epson 5020 seems to be the brightness champ, and from the screen shots the ghosting seems to be pretty damn minimal, I’m trying one out. Should have it Sunday and can return it for 30 days no questions asked, and best of all can have it while the JVC’s in the shop. My plan is to keep both if they can save the 40 and if I like it just use the Epson for the depthies.

So again, thanks to all here, I really needed your work to make a decision.
One question –
Is there a phone number where I can actually talk to a human being at JVC service? I can’t seem to find one.

And as to the ButtKicker that’s suddenly appeared in the conversation, if someone’s looking for one, contact me.

S A M 33

I received my HW50 last night and spent a very short time with it.

With the 2 Sony glasses I received I found the glasses to be constantly losing sync. My projector is mounted lower than normal and the emitter is on bottom which is also slightly angled to the side. I'll have to see if mounting the projector slightly higher helps or if I'll have to get the external emitter. I still have to try out my Xpand X104s.

Before I set up the HW50 I viewed a few clips on my RS45 and cycled through different manual iris settings (0, -5, -10, -15). For 2D I have always watched movies with the iris at -15. In this setting I will say that the HW50 (in low lamp mode with either the Auto Iris or Manual Iris) will not do blacks quite like the RS45 (whether we are talking dark or the darkest of dark scenes). For those who must have the blackest of blacks the JVC is going to have the edge if you are willing to clamp down the iris.

The FI and brightness of the HW50 in 3D makes it a much nicer 3D projector over the RS45 however I do find dark scenes looking grayish in 3D on the Sony.

Maybe I should try out an ND filter. Yes, I am picky when it comes to black levels. I'll post more late tonight or sometime tomorrow when I can do some more comparisons.

Thanks so much for this info, Z!

As a result, until we get more post-update measurements, I will be in no rush to update mine. JVC North America seems to be on "holidays" right now since nobody (dealers, jvc.ca, jvc.com) has a clue about this problem still even though Europe has reported it for several weeks.

we will wait a full review from you my friend, i am between epson5020 and sonyhw50es thanks, have nice days with your new proj

Thank you very much Jason! You are very helpful :-)

Hi Z,

I'm not sure if you already answered this or not ...

Is the 3D crosstalk performance on the RS4810 with CT @ 8 noticeably better than the pre-firmware RS46?

Glad you like you butt being kicked. enjoy

It never stops. The only thing that stops is you and we all hope that doesn't happen for a very long time. Happy new year.
Edited by mark haflich - 12/28/12 at 9:19am