Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout... - Page 106

I've got information that JVC's really have 240 Hz panel drive but only when Clear Motion Drive is off. Can anyone confirm? Also 60 Hz in Mode 1,2, 120 Hz in mode 3,4.

Elix, JVC is only using 120 Hz panels.

Dark Level control ~ adjusting 5% on the gamma.

AKA if you try Dark level Control, and then calibrate gamma flat, the result is as if the dark level control was not used at all.


Leave Dark Level control at 0 and make 2 gamma curves

One flat and one with a slightly raised 5%

There is no "perfect" way to get the shadow detail out of the JVC projectors.

Dark Level changes or slightly raised 5% looks great on "perfect" authored sources. (Animated films / Video Games / Movies were black is truly video level 16 black)

On a less then perfect movie where black in the picture is not a true video level 16 black, you will only be losing depth and contrast in the picture. (Easily seen in Across the Universe blu-ray)

The JVC needs a 1% adjustment control! JVC you listening? ?
Also firmware upgrade not a "new" machine purchase... lol.
Edited by SOWK - 1/22/13 at 12:48pm

Source, please?

AKA me... (Also asked the JVC reps at Cedia last year)

You must not know me very well yet... lol.


Also there website...

They mention 120 Hz clear Motion Drive. No mention of 240 Hz panels.

They "would" have mentioned it, if they were using 240 htz. Its a selling point and a "reason" for old users to upgrade to the new models.

Hi Manni
I know we talked about it at the time and I recall futzing with it a lot but I guess I didn't see (or don't recollect) the granularity part...that makes a lot of sense though. But I agree with Kelvin that the two back squares makes it harder than need be to adjust.

Thanks for the correction....!!

I'll have to look tonight as I'm not sure if the RS4810 has this control.
Edited by Geof - 1/22/13 at 8:26pm

I'd say if you can't see it raising the black floor you're good to go.

FWIW, I find the Hide trick useful but to my eyes it's just easier to display a 0% pattern and adjust brightness while watching the screen. I can immediately discern if the luminance level changes that way (and one can rapidly switch brightness settings as well to see the effect)(but I also use the hide trick too). Unfortunately the black level control doesn't let us do that....
Edited by Geof - 1/22/13 at 1:36pm

Zombie, are you using freeNAS on your server? I try to get a micca ep950 like yours but can't find it any where. What's the next best streamer to buy?

I think the Dune streamers are the best out there right now. JMHO. But they don't do 3D.

They have a new model out that supports SBS one other form of 3D but no frame packed. Its a lower end model. I'm sure they will release a new flagship model that will support all types of 3D soon. I use the Dune HD 101 and push blu-rays and other content to it through a UPnP server with 20+ TB of movies/TV Shows. Works flawlessly. Probably one of the easiest ways out there to share media over your network.

For me, I still like WHS.
I've been running 1 WHS box with 34T HDDs in Norco case and recently built another with Windows server 2012 essential in norco 24bay case as well. No issues with streaming Bluray ISO.
WD's Red HDD works better than Green with NAS system.

@Geoff so you prefer running 0% patterns to bringing up AVSHD disc when setting up black level? Do you do that by naked eye not by meter?

For Lumagen owners, they'll get the same results if they run 21pt grayscale and adjust luminance of 5% grayscale, right? Kevin benefits again with his X35. lol.

Yes. new firmware for unsaturated green as well! Don't say not possible.
Edited by freebits - 1/22/13 at 8:48pm

Have you ever checked out UnRAID? All the benefits of hardware raid but data isn't striped and you get full parity. It's not a free solution but the community is great.

There is Dune HD Base 3D available from this January http://dune-hd.com/eng/products/full_hd_media_players/37

Not quite, SOWK would like to adjust at 1%, but I could move the 5% control down to 1% in the Lumagen if I want to and tweak that, so yes I benefit again with my X35/Lumagen. I just used some of the money I saved by getting the X35 instead of the X55 last night and bought some secondhand speakers (PMC Wafer 1 that I've been after for years as side surrounds) so the money still ends up getting spent. There's enough left for a 50/55" Panasonic plasma too, but I might wait for the VT60 range to land...

I suspect you know most of this but I'll give my rational.....
I do use the AVS disk for checking Brightness. But I also use the method I described earlier as I never want to increase the black floor - regardless of how well I can see level 17. For example, adjusting the brightness control from 0 to +1 makes level 17 easier to see but it also raises level 16. That is a compromise I'm not willing to make. By displaying a 0% pattern and changing brightness between 0 and +1 I can clearly, and easily, see a luminance change. Not good. Another way to do this uses the "Hide" trick. It entails displaying a level 16 (0%) pattern and comparing that to using the JVC Hide command. Hide is the absolute lowest black the projector can produce. If there is a difference in luminance between the 0% pattern and the Hide "pattern" the black floor of the projector is being raised.

The way to improve the visibility of level 17 without compromising level 16 is with a custom gamma curve....some use the dark level control.

Edit....I probably didn't answer your question....Yes, I prefer the 0% pattern with either of the methods described (I usually try both since it's just a different remote command). I use the Lumagen to generate the 0% pattern. I don't use a meter because I'm lazy and would have to have it facing the projector to get any sort of reliable reading. Next time I calibrate I may try a BT1886 curve and in that case I will need to have the meter facing the projector because I need to input the black floor level in cd/m2 so I'll have the opportunity to see if I've been fooling myself with the 0% meter-less method. But I also run the brightness pattern on the AVS disc as a sanity check. Plus, it's useful to look at this after fiddling with gamma.
Edited by Geof - 1/23/13 at 11:39am

Pfftt..... get the ZT. Go big or go home.

it seems to me the best pattern for adjusting Brightness would be a level 16 bar flashing on a level zero background. (Assuming the video chain is capable of producing BTB.) Combine this with a second pattern with a level 17 bar flashing on a level zero background. Set Brightness so that the flashing 16 just barely disappears. Then go to the next pattern and check that the flashing 17 is just barely visible. Lots of flashing bars are distracting and make it difficult to tell if one particular bar is flashing.

I have been spending quite a bit of time with a VT50 lately.......best image I have personally seen to date! Every time I come home, my RS45 (even calibrated) seems to be missing something. Amazing flat panel though and the new models will only get better I am sure.

Trouble is that I hardly watch TV: It's on, but I'm looking on my laptop most of the time. The only time I really focus on the film is when I dim the lights and watch something on my projector, so it's hard to justify replacing the current 5 year old Sony LCD (calibrated to 125 points using the Lumagen of course, plenty of spare memories and a HDMI splitter help here ).

I'm just about at 100 hours now on my X35, so I'll probably re do the calibration soon, so it'll be interesting to see if the red has dropped much in the first 100 hours as the lux reading has scarcely changed from new. Once some other DIY projects are finished then onto some room improvements to make the most of the JVC.

Don't spoil my eggs. I'm about to buy my 1st projector.

So I decided on the HW50, I think for right now it will serve all of my purposes and I will get a second projector for 2D at some point, maybe when Red comes out with their projector. My question is, is the RC that much better for 3D? I am half thinking about ponying up a little extra cash and getting the 95ES instead of the HW50. The response times are the same correct?

Geoffrey Morrison does his own mini-shootout in the Feb-Mar 2013 issue of Sound and Vision. It's a pretty good piece, I think, and comes to many of the conclusions we have here. The Epson 6020's a light canon, the Sony HW50 is very balanced overall, and contrast on the JVC X35 kills. Which projector did he end up watching and exclaiming "Wow!" about the most - the JVC X35. If not for poor 3D performance, there's little doubt in my mind that I'd still be using one.

Can someone share the xYY equivalents of the rs46, rs4810 and rs55?

did you read this review, can you tell us something about it

Dont get me wrong........overall I would not trade my FP setup for the VT50 mainly due to the different size/immersion factor. As far as pure PQ goes though..........man those VT50 sets are nice. No way am I trading out my 9' wide image for a 65" diagonal flat panel though! I am sure you will absolutely love going to a FP setup as the overall experience cant be beat IMO.