Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout... - Page 107

Yes, I read it. He gives black level and brightness measurements, contrast numbers, etc. for his screen and setup. He says all three are better than last year's models, and much better than $10,000 projectors from not very long ago. He notes that ghosting is worst on the JVC, but that overall he prefers it because of the high native contrast. It seems very much in line with many of the conclusions we're seeing here. In other words, most people are going to be happy with any of these projectors, but your priorities will determine which is the best fit for you.

My first projector ever just arrived today. I decided on the HW50. My room has a ways to go to be done, but I think I've convinced the wife to let me throw the image on the living room wall for a while. If it looks decent enough it will be there til my room is complete.

Should be a bit of an upgrade from my first two displays: A 27" Sony Wega tube and a 32" Panasonic LCD.

thank you bro, i m from turkey is it any chance to see or buy it online and read on notebook?

Dude, please invite me over to see it when you get your room ready!! I'd love to see a Sony HW50 set up in a good space. The closest I've gotten is a Sony HW30 at the Best Buy Magnolia store in Brentwood.

Congratulations - awesome first projector !!

rs46=X35
rs4810=x55
rs55=X70
if you meant
rs56=X75

Just had a thought re 3D on JVCs: Has anyone tried raising the brightness level which will reduce the contrast? I'm just thinking that some of the cheaper 3D projectors that give a 'better' less ghosting 3D image yet have a lower contrast by far than the JVC. Just thinking if it makes any difference it might at least mean there would be less point buying a separate projector for 3D. I haven't got any 3D glasses or emitter with my X35 (I can't watch 3D for long anyway due to headaches).

I subscribe to the paper magazine, but I don't know if they have a digital version. It's Sound and Vision magazine.

 

I couldn't get the link to work but their website here shows a digital edition should be available:

 

 

Let's put it this way...this was also my first projector and the first time I turned it on and projected onto a beige (not even white!) wall I was asking myself why in the h*ll I spent so much on a screen!

Its funny you say that, as I will be temporarily throwing it on a beige wall. Lol. Good to hear. I look forward to turning it on later!

Does the Darbee work with 3D content? I have found RC on the Sony 50 to work wonders with the right material but for some movies (2 out of the last 10 maybe) even its minimal setting is over cooked for my tastes in face closeups. If I had Sony's ear i would ask that they allow even lower settings for RC in the future. Also, is it correct that the Sony HW50 firmware is not user upgradable?

Thanks

Ha! Never saw you were in St. Louis. I live very close to the Brentwood store and frequent it. My room probably wont be operational for a month or so. Not sure what your timeline is.

I'm sure we can find a time. Good luck getting everything set up the way you want.

I've met several really nice people in St. Louis through AVS. It's my "social media" site, especially since I don't do Facebook or Twitter.

I feel confident at this point that between all the 3d JVC regulars that are less than thrilled with the 3d performance that we have basically tried it all Kelvin! 3d is just not what the JVCs are meant to do IMHO. If you want quality 3d AND a JVC for 2d, you need 2 separate projectors. Maybe this will change with next years models.

Exactly! My FP setup is not going ANYWHERE.................especially this HP screen.

I think you would need closer to 5 to fill up that screen!

I think that's a weak argument and as a consumer you should ALWAYS be expecting more from a product. Being a submissive consumer means they will take advantage of us and things will never get better. If you take into consideration that Sony also uses LCOS panels, albeit a slightly different itteration, they do 3D much better than what JVC is currently doing. I think the current generation LCOS chips JVC uses in these projectors are being pushed to their limits. If they do an overhaul, like Sony recently did, a new generation of JVC projectors could have it all. Great native contrast, motion equal or better than what Sony offers, and solid 3D performance.

I think jvc gets the job done for the majority. If better 3D means that the 2D will suffer, then I think most would not consider a newer jvc. They are not the best 3D but their 2D makes up for it IMO. Plus, I use my jvc just for 2D.

I decided to go with Sony hw50es and ordered one couple days ago. Special thanks to Zombie and xb1032 for sharing impressions comparing with JVC.
In my short list were Epson tw8100/5020, Panasonic ae8k, BenQ w1070 and Sony. Hope I'm not going wrong.

Sure, check out www.Zinio.com or searc "Zinio" on your tablet or phone's app store. I currently subscribe digitally and receive issues to my iPad and my phone automatically from one subscription.

I raised brightness a few clicks on my old RS45 and it mainly helped with shadow detail at the expense of black levels. Since brightness sets black levels you really don't gain much brightness with the brightness adjustment. Also, iif I am recalling Zombie's findings properly he mentioned the newer JVCs improved or masked ghosting somewhat with lower brightness and if true this would potentially make ghosting more obvious.

Before I moved into front projection I was a plasma guy and the last two I purchased were Pioneer Kuros. Pioneer's niche was black levels and there was a premium to pay for it. This is JVC's niche as well. The best blacks with the best contrast. JVC could learn a thing or two from Sony but at the same time Sony could learn a thing or two from JVC with their excellent contrast. One would have thought after years have passed that at some point someone would have picked up on JVC's secret to top notch contrast. If the HW50 had the contrast of the RS45 that would be a sight to see. The contrast is still good on the HW50 but just not quite as good as the JVCs. The RC makes the picture look much sharper than my RS45 and before I had the HW50 I never would have considered the RS4810 for the e-shift but it if's close to the added sharpness that RC gives on the Sony I probably would be considering the RS4810 over the RS46 if I were considering a JVC.

Glad I could help as an amateur as Zombie is the pro here.

Did you move from the W7000 to the Epson 5020 now being a brightness fanatic?

BTW, after your post about the buttkickers I picked up BK-LFE off of Amazon and I am impressed. I have 3 15" subs but the space in the room is tight and this is going to help me replace one of the subs for the extra room. I moved one of the other subs to a different location and it actually works better. Plus with the Buttkicker I can feel the bass heavier at lower volumes which will help keep my wife from complaining at me;). Thanks for the tip!

Trade secrets, there might be some patents preventing them from reverse engineering everything each other are doing. Though I suspect that some of the engineering techniques employed by the two companies would automatically add some deficiency to each other's techniques, probably combining the 2 R&D departments would not yield a projector with all benefits of both, but I imagine it would yield quite an awesome machine. Single chip DLP is probably still the best tech, if they could get the Native ON/Off above 6000:1 and implement an IRIS as advanced as the Sony all for under $5000, but it isn't going to happen so it appears. When pigs fly maybe.

Much more fear factor if you do it while on the West Coast rather than the East Coast.

Thank you. I've used avshd & dark level control only. I'll try your 0% & hide method this weekend. In your case, if you find brightness -7 gives you the same black level between 0% pattern & hide button and brightness -6 slightly floats black level, you set it to -7?
When it comes to black level measurement, my i1D3 meter couldn't measure luminance correctly if I set the aperture -15, It's just 0. And if I raise aperture a little bit like -13, it's measured like 0.002 cd/m^2. Prolly the lowest black level you may enter in auto-cal menu is 0.002+ when i1D3 is used. Btw, Auto-cal for gamma BT1886 with actually luminance results in much better calibration.
Edited by freebits - 1/23/13 at 9:13pm

I think there's a bigger issue at hand here. That issue has to do with how well dynamic irises are implemented. You start to notice things when reading reviews. Something I've picked up is that most "effective" dynamic irises typically don't boost the native contrast by any more than 4-5 times. What I mean by "effective" is a dynamic iris that is smooth and rarely detectable. The trend seems to point out that DI's that dig deeper than 4-5 times the native contrast are very aggressive. While they boost well past 4-5 times the native CR they are just too visible, obvious, and distracting to use in real world scenarios. So if DLP is going to compete with LCOS it's going to need be a lot more than 6000:1.

I personally don't need to have the best On/Off contrast numbers to be satisfied. I'm quite happy at around a measured and real 12000:1 On/Off coupled with high ANSI contrast (measured in the eight hundreds) that my two current DLPs render. I personally think they give a satisfying level of black that doesn't look like it should be any darker. That is, I've never watched a particular scene and thought an area looked "grey" or somehow needed to be darker to be convincing. Yes, I've witnessed what much higher native contrast can look like and while it does have a pleasing look on the darkest of dark scenes, for the remaining scenes the high ANSI contrast coupled with relatively high on/off contrast looks just as good if not better. One scene that no DLP has ever looked anywhere as good on a JVC is a scene in Lord of the Rings: Return of the King when Gandalf and Pippin are in Minas Tirith. It's the first night scene after they arrive and are out on a balcony talking. There's a shot looking out towards Mordor and the mountain range across the plains. It looks INCREDIBLE on a JVC. If you have the Extended version go to 54:03 on the first disc to see. But alas, a good DLP projector satfisfies me a lot more than any JVC I've owned in regards to overall picture quality. Maybe when pigs fly we'll find some breakthrough so we can have it all.

I think that many of the threads these days focus way too much of contrast alone, especially when every machine in this particular thread reaches a black level and contrast ratio that would satisfy all by the pickiest and in the end those who are the most picky buy the JVC and are fine with the lower performing areas these projectors have elsewhere (3D, bulb life, hard to calibrate gamma , ect).
Edited by Seegs108 - 1/23/13 at 11:51pm

I was more thinking about raising the black level to reduce contrast as I know that the brightness control doesn't increase peak white, it just makes blacks grey(er). It sounds like it wouldn't be much help anyway from Zombie's findings as it might make ghosting even more obvious. Anyway, it was just a suggestion and something that has obviously been thought about before. Thankfully I'm 2D only myself so I can chose the projector with the best black levels which is my preference, especially since I can't watch single chip DLP due to headaches and rainbows.

There is no argument about it, just the way it is with the current and past JVCs as far as 3d goes. There has been nothing submissive about my JVC 3d opinion, but at the same time you have to call it like it is. Expectations need to be kept in check in relation to the hype train, like the one that comes out of Cedia every year and if not, you are most likely setting youself up for a fall. I think it is much wiser to HOPE for the best but be smart enough not to count the chickens before they hatch in awesome threads like this one.

I certainly hope JVC can make real no compromise 3d improvement next year, but only if it does not come at the expense of 2d in any way shape or form since that is and most likely always will be what they are known for, not their 3d. As vocal as I have been about my RS40/45 as far as 3d goes, that area was never my main focus for buying a JVC. If you are buying any JVC up to this point, your primary goal is (or should be) quality 2d and as much as I like 3d, I hope JVC maintains that focus.

On a separate note, has anyone had lamp flickering develope on high lamp on their JVC? I just did my 2.35 calibration in high lamp and when I sat back to check out the results tonight I noticed that the high lamp setting flickers in a perfect tempo which does not happen in low lamp.