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Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout... - Page 114

post #3391 of 4154
2/1/13 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I'm going to get samples of both and put them on my carada screen to choose the better material

Report back as I am curious what you think. How do you like your Carada by the way? I owned 3 of them (either 2 CCW and a BW or the other way around) and due to a characteristic vertical screen texture/pattern that I could see, which I have literally not seen anyone else mention so I am a nutcase apparently, I was not happy with any of them and they all went back. Like I said though, I am obviously some sort of weirdo since I literally have not seen anyone else mention what I noticed and people obviously love the Carada screens in general. The fact that I saw it on all 3 of the screens would have to rule out a bad sample though, so apparently it was just something that I was sensitive to that does not bother the vast majority.
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post #3392 of 4154
2/1/13 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Thanks Mark. tongue.gif

If the calibration compensates for the screen color shift then what you are saying is I am worrying for nothing, right? smile.gif
I must don't understand how it would be the same. If the color shifts from different angles, how can you set the meter where my viewing distance is at? Gain changes so rapidly, that I don't know if I'm seeing what the meter is reading. It still looks good but I am just not sure
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post #3393 of 4154
2/1/13 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Thanks Mark. tongue.gif

If the calibration compensates for the screen color shift then what you are saying is I am worrying for nothing, right? smile.gif
I must don't understand how it would be the same. If the color shifts from different angles, how can you set the meter where my viewing distance is at? Gain changes so rapidly, that I don't know if I'm seeing what the meter is reading. It still looks good but I am just not sure
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post #3394 of 4154
2/1/13 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I must don't understand how it would be the same. If the color shifts from different angles, how can you set the meter where my viewing distance is at? Gain changes so rapidly, that I don't know if I'm seeing what the meter is reading. It still looks good but I am just not sure


Exactly......****.........I am confused and unsure if what I am seeing is actually representative of the calibration report which is frustrating. I think I am going to just sell ALL this ****.......and the house as well and move back to the mountains and start snowboarding again! I think I need a new hobby.........open to suggestions. biggrin.gif
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post #3395 of 4154
2/1/13 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Exactly......****.........I am confused and unsure if what I am seeing is actually representative of the calibration report which is frustrating. I think I am going to just sell ALL this ****.......and the house as well and move back to the mountains and start snowboarding again! I think I need a new hobby.........open to suggestions. biggrin.gif
I need a free hobby
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post #3396 of 4154
2/1/13 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I owned 3 of them (either 2 CCW and a BW or the other way around) and due to a characteristic vertical screen texture/pattern that I could see, which I have literally not seen anyone else mention so I am a nutcase apparently, I was not happy with any of them and they all went back.

 

I saw this in all of the screen replacements they sent me while I was trying to get a screen without creases (different issue). I talked to them and he pronounced the stripes as being inherent to the material. They don't jump out at you although they are rather obvious once you see them... based on the projected image.

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post #3397 of 4154
2/1/13 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I saw this in all of the screen replacements they sent me while I was trying to get a screen without creases (different issue). I talked to them and he pronounced the stripes as being inherent to the material. They don't jump out at you although they are rather obvious once you see them... based on the projected image.

I appreciate you posting this as I thought I might have been crazy all these years. Have you seen anyone else mention this? When I found this issue and then kept seeing it on the replacements, I could not find another report of what I was seeing and thought it was odd since it seemed obvious enough to me and figured at least some others on here with a critical eye toward this type of thing would have seen it as well.

The creases were also an issue for me and I just chalked it up to the way they ship the material which back then (dont know if this has changed) was not in any sort of protective tubing (like Stewart does for example) which allowed the frame pieces to push against the material and no doubt increase the chances or severity of creases. The longest I owned any of the 3 was about 2 weeks or so as I remember and the creases never fully went away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I need a free hobby

You said it! Trying to work a HT hobby on a landscapers income all these years has been challenging! tongue.gif
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post #3398 of 4154
2/1/13 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post


I appreciate you posting this as I thought I might have been crazy all these years. Have you seen anyone else mention this? When I found this issue and then kept seeing it on the replacements, I could not find another report of what I was seeing and thought it was odd since it seemed obvious enough to me and figured at least some others on here with a critical eye toward this type of thing would have seen it as well.

The creases were also an issue for me and I just chalked it up to the way they ship the material which back then (dont know if this has changed) was not in any sort of protective tubing (like Stewart does for example) which allowed the frame pieces to push against the material and no doubt increase the chances or severity of creases. The longest I owned any of the 3 was about 2 weeks or so as I remember and the creases never fully went away.

 

I never saw it mentioned before I ran across it and that's why I asked them about it. As a company they went beyond the call of duty. The screen material I received had creases (a couple) which looked like worm impressions for lack of a better description. Talking with them (I emailed various images) they instantly offered to send me new material and it had them too. This time one of the guys said he would personally inspect the material and roll it up to ensure it was good to go. Well unfortunately it had them as well and talking with them he stated... I'm 100% sure they will disappear (stretch out) over time. Also, he suggested I could do the old hair dyer trick. 

 

He seemed so positive that I countered with I'm not comfortable going beyond my 30-day return period but if you refund my money I'll gladly pay if/when they do. He took me up on the offer and said let's wait 3-4 months (I can't remember the exact period of time). I waited numerous months of which they got a little better but never disappeared and at that point I wanted to resolve what screen I would be using so I shipped it back to them... on their nickle.

 

My theory is it's in the rolling. If the material isn't rolled perfectly smooth/tight creases (not folds rather puckers) form. Or perhaps the varying thicknesses of the material leans itself into forming puckers. Regarding the vertical stripes they appear similar to my old JVC G150 stripes... watch a hockey game and end up staring at the stripes. :)


Edited by Charles R - 2/1/13 at 11:36am
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post #3399 of 4154
2/1/13 at 11:26am
Generally a screen will shift colors somewhat unless it is a white ref quality 1.0 gain. The generic specific color shift can be calibrated out. You can only calibrate from one spot. S generally one calibrates from the sweet spot but of course one has to angle the meter so the meter doesn't block the screen. There is a reason the pros use a 1.0 gain like the Snomatt ior a slight gain 1.1 like the JKP. It eliminates positional bias.


More later. I have to leave for a post op eye exam.
Edited by mark haflich - 2/1/13 at 3:33pm
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post #3400 of 4154
2/1/13 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I must don't understand how it would be the same. If the color shifts from different angles, how can you set the meter where my viewing distance is at? Gain changes so rapidly, that I don't know if I'm seeing what the meter is reading. It still looks good but I am just not sure

I think there is more to it possibly than just the angle the meter reads as well, I think the material on the HP screen might be giving the C6/D3 some fits with reading RED, but who knows for sure.
I'll know after I compare three different calibrations, at the lens, at the screen with neutral white, and at the HP screen.
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post #3401 of 4154
2/1/13 at 12:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsounds2010 View Post

Howdy guys,
I just joined AVS after reading through this thread. I've been sick the last few days, and I've spent the better part of my free time reading through every post in this shootout. All I can say is...wow. My brain is full of lumens, convergence, crosstalk, foot-lamberts, gamma, ghosting, gray scale, latency, DLP, LCD, LCOS, & SXRD. I certainly know more about projectors than before. However, the purpose of my original visit to AVS was to glean some insight towards what projector deserves my hard earned cash right now. Instead, I've found the "best" seems to have a lot to do with a user's opinion and preference to one technology over another.
Zombie10k's data has been informative and thorough without question. However, his posts on some pages, have been few and far between. Is this shootout complete? Zombie10k, will your findings be compiled at some point and your data placed in one spot, i.e., at the beginning of this thread? Lastly, is there a clear winner of best overall projector?
Thanks for all the work. wink.gif

Hi, i'm working on compiling all the summaries on the first page. A kind AVS member volunteered his Panasonic 8000 which i'll add soon to the mini-shootout.

send me a PM and tell me about your room where you're installing the projector.
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post #3402 of 4154
2/1/13 at 1:03pm
Charles,

You and I had extremely similar experiences. Carada bent over backwards for me as well and I cant say enough good about how awesome their customer service was. They also personally inspected the second piece of screen material for me and it was as it should have been, but the issues I noticed were still there. After it was all said and done, they encouraged me to give them another shot in the future if I was up to it and I did, but this time with the other white material (I either got the CCW or BW the first time, cant remember now) as I was hopeful what I saw was just due to that particular sceen. Unfortunately the other white material showed the same creases/vertical pattern and it went back as well which Carada was once again very easy to deal with. I was even given the same advice as you up to and including the hair dryer trick. Both of my Stewart screens and my HP stetched out perfectly right from the start with no creases which I have to think is at least in part due to the better packaging of the material. Good to know I am not the only one who noticed this though and thanks for posting. smile.gif
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post #3403 of 4154
2/1/13 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Please keep us updated. Da-Lite is currently making my replacement HCHP screen as we speak. My dealer gave them explicit instructions to double check for uniformity and texture/line issues on my screen. We'll see. I'm going to stay a skeptic until I see the replacement for myself.
Well Severtson has the WORST customer service I've experienced. Multiple attempts to contact the company for screen samples have been fruitless, I finally got a hold of a guy who promised to send samples which never arrived and he no longer answers the phone. I finally found a local dealer who had some samples for me try, unfortunatly the only sample of interest was the SeVision 3D GX, and stellar white 1.3, which I really need the 2.2 for proper comparison. The SeVision is a nice material, probably better than Firehawk if thats what your going for because of the added brightness, but it's every bit as sparkly as the Firehawk. The Stellar White 1.3 is a nice material, there is a slight bit of sparkle, but I could get used to it. I'm betting the 2.2 however will have much more sparkle.

I'm still trying to get someone to send a stellar white 2.2 sample, but my hopes aren't high. So far I'm guessing I'll be sticking to hi power.
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post #3404 of 4154
2/1/13 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

Well Severtson has the WORST customer service I've experienced. Multiple attempts to contact the company for screen samples have been fruitless, I finally got a hold of a guy who promised to send samples which never arrived and he no longer answers the phone. I finally found a local dealer who had some samples for me try, unfortunatly the only sample of interest was the SeVision 3D GX, and stellar white 1.3, which I really need the 2.2 for proper comparison. The SeVision is a nice material, probably better than Firehawk if thats what your going for because of the added brightness, but it's every bit as sparkly as the Firehawk. The Stellar White 1.3 is a nice material, there is a slight bit of sparkle, but I could get used to it. I'm betting the 2.2 however will have much more sparkle.

I'm still trying to get someone to send a stellar white 2.2 sample, but my hopes aren't high. So far I'm guessing I'll be sticking to hi power.

Sorry to hear you have not had luck getting samples, but I just wanted to add that my experience with Severtson was just the opposite and I found their customer service up there with the best. My first screen was a Severtson HC grey years ago and the original piece of screen material they sent had an obvious manufacturer flaw that could easily be seen under normal viewing from my couch. I called up and they had me a new piece of material out the door ASAP. Cant ask for more than that and they were great to deal with. Maybe something has changed over the years since I have dealt with them, but I was very impressed with the service I received.
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post #3405 of 4154
2/1/13 at 3:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

You can only purchase the material from an authorized local dealer (or AVScience smile.gif) in specific sizes with frames or tensioned electric roll down models.

There are a few online stores selling the perforated material in bulk. Just search for HD Progressive 1.1 Perf and some hits will pop up.
As a matter of fact I am in contact with one US based vendor even willing to ship to France, but not the JKP fabric, seems to be exclusiv to Da-Lite vendors.
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post #3406 of 4154
2/1/13 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj-34 View Post

As a matter of fact I am in contact with one US based vendor even willing to ship to France, but not the JKP fabric, seems to be exclusiv to Da-Lite vendors.

The JKP Affinity material is made by Da-Lite, that's why.
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post #3407 of 4154
2/1/13 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Hi, i'm working on compiling all the summaries on the first page. A kind AVS member volunteered his Panasonic 8000 which i'll add soon to the mini-shootout.

send me a PM and tell me about your room where you're installing the projector.

Great! PM sent. Thank you!

Appreciate everyone else's advice as well. The Sony is what I'm leaning towards ATM. However, the Epson was my first choice before reading this thread, and it's still in the running. wink.gif
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post #3408 of 4154
2/1/13 at 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

Well Severtson has the WORST customer service I've experienced. Multiple attempts to contact the company for screen samples have been fruitless, I finally got a hold of a guy who promised to send samples which never arrived and he no longer answers the phone. I finally found a local dealer who had some samples for me try, unfortunatly the only sample of interest was the SeVision 3D GX, and stellar white 1.3, which I really need the 2.2 for proper comparison. The SeVision is a nice material, probably better than Firehawk if thats what your going for because of the added brightness, but it's every bit as sparkly as the Firehawk. The Stellar White 1.3 is a nice material, there is a slight bit of sparkle, but I could get used to it. I'm betting the 2.2 however will have much more sparkle.

I'm still trying to get someone to send a stellar white 2.2 sample, but my hopes aren't high. So far I'm guessing I'll be sticking to hi power.

I had the same experience. Though I only sent a simple email asking for samples. That was two weeks ago and I never received a response back. I have to say that Da-Lite has been a pleasure to work with. Between my replacement, which came the other day and turned out to be GREAT as it has none of the issues the previous screen had, and emailing them they have been a wonderful company to deal with from a customer service stand point. Fast response times and reasonable when it comes to replacement/warranty issues. They payed for all the shipping charges and the production manager gave extra attention to my replacement. I couldn't be happier.
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post #3409 of 4154
2/1/13 at 10:55pm
hi guys,
last week i see a demo of sony hw50es, its just coming to my country.

here's my personal opinion for about 1 hour demo:
The dealer are projecting comparison image from 2 projector (sony hw50 and infocus 8604)
- the infocus 8604 looks soft in compared to sony hw50 (RC set to15 or 20, picture mode in reference)

the sony have sharp image, good contrast, bright enough, smooth motion., deep black

but i feel somelike the sony lack of filmlike feeling, the image looks digital and lacks of depth.

also my eyes feel fatigue when watching the sony 3D, i feel some fast flickering.

so now i have doubt to buy sony HW50,

I want to find Benq W7000 demo and i'll see if i like it.

How about your opinion guys?


thanx

out of topic :
in another day, i see a demo of optoma HD33 in another dealer, me and my friends eye feel unconfortable/fatigue when watching the movie in 2D.
then we see a demo of sim2 crystalview 35, picture looks beauty and eye feel more comfortable
Edited by aloha29 - 2/1/13 at 11:36pm
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post #3410 of 4154
2/2/13 at 12:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj-34 View Post

As a matter of fact I am in contact with one US based vendor even willing to ship to France, but not the JKP fabric, seems to be exclusiv to Da-Lite vendors.

What fabric are you looking at? I live in Ireland and I am thinking of importing some material for my new screen.
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post #3411 of 4154
2/2/13 at 3:28am
PM sent ....
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post #3412 of 4154
2/2/13 at 3:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The JKP Affinity material is made by Da-Lite, that's why.
Yes, but what I meant is that the JKP Affinity seems to not be available as bulk material, only as ready made screens unlike many other Da-Lite fabrics.
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post #3413 of 4154
2/2/13 at 6:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crowehaqe View Post

Out of the various DLP projectors mentioned throughout this thread (mits, benQ, sharp, etc) can any actually be ceiling mounted around 6-10" above the screen? For some reason I've gotten the impression that they can't... True?

The Mitsubishi 8000 DLP can be mounted above the screen. Check the manual, page 10 shows the offset based on the screen size.

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/wp-content/files_mf/8000d_manual.pdf
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post #3414 of 4154
2/2/13 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj-34 View Post

Yes, but what I meant is that the JKP Affinity seems to not be available as bulk material, only as ready made screens unlike many other Da-Lite fabrics.

This materials is very exclusive. They have tight restrictions on it.
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post #3415 of 4154
2/2/13 at 7:37am
Thread Starter 
http://www.avsforum.com/f/23/screens
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post #3416 of 4154
2/2/13 at 7:43am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aloha29 View Post

hi guys,
last week i see a demo of sony hw50es, its just coming to my country.

here's my personal opinion for about 1 hour demo:
The dealer are projecting comparison image from 2 projector (sony hw50 and infocus 8604)
- the infocus 8604 looks soft in compared to sony hw50 (RC set to15 or 20, picture mode in reference)

the sony have sharp image, good contrast, bright enough, smooth motion., deep black

but i feel somelike the sony lack of filmlike feeling, the image looks digital and lacks of depth.

also my eyes feel fatigue when watching the sony 3D, i feel some fast flickering.

so now i have doubt to buy sony HW50,

I want to find Benq W7000 demo and i'll see if i like it.

How about your opinion guys?


thanx

out of topic :
in another day, i see a demo of optoma HD33 in another dealer, me and my friends eye feel unconfortable/fatigue when watching the movie in 2D.
then we see a demo of sim2 crystalview 35, picture looks beauty and eye feel more comfortable

The Sony 3D shouldn't bother most viewers, but if you are sensitive to refresh rate, the Epson 5020 is better than the Sony in this regard. The panels are faster and the image is more solid in 3D for those that are sensitive to this. I watched about 4 hours of various 3D clips on my BQ W7000 last night, the image in 3D is rock solid on this projector.

The HD33 fatigue you are seeing is likely rainbow effect. the Sim2 35 has a faster color wheel which makes it easier on the eyes.

take a look at the Epson 5020, it might be a good compromise of 2D and 3D for your viewing preferences.
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post #3417 of 4154
2/2/13 at 7:51am
Excellent... You should have the panny 8000 projector delivered to you by Tuesday. I am looking forward to seeing how it compares to the current items in the shootout.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

great, thanks very much! I'll calibrate it for you in 2D and 3D as well.
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post #3418 of 4154
2/2/13 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The Sony 3D shouldn't bother most viewers, but if you are sensitive to refresh rate, the Epson 5020 is better than the Sony in this regard. The panels are faster and the image is more solid in 3D for those that are sensitive to this. I watched about 4 hours of various 3D clips on my BQ W7000 last night, the image in 3D is rock solid on this projector.

The HD33 fatigue you are seeing is likely rainbow effect. the Sim2 35 has a faster color wheel which makes it easier on the eyes.

take a look at the Epson 5020, it might be a good compromise of 2D and 3D for your viewing preferences.

I can't recall if you commented on this - do you see RBE with the W7000? I have a friend who has the Acer 5360, and I saw RBE a few times watching 3D on it.
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post #3419 of 4154
2/2/13 at 11:20am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I can't recall if you commented on this - do you see RBE with the W7000? I have a friend who has the Acer 5360, and I saw RBE a few times watching 3D on it.

I still have my Acer 5360, I had it hooked up a little while to make sure my Nvidia glasses were still working. I could see RBE in 3D once in a while on the Acer but not on the W7000. I was really looking for it last night.

I haven't used the W7000 since I blacked out my ceiling a few weeks ago, so I wanted see how it looked in 3D. The FI in 3D is nice, it's more subtle in 3D than it is in 2D for some reason. The image is very solid and naturally sharp. I was jumping around between 3D animations, action, and a number of clips from Step Up 3D and Street Dance 3D. These movies are shot in native 3D and have some very creative scenes that look excellent.

When in 3D mode, the contrast doesn't bother me on this projector. Maybe the red flash + Optoma ZD 201 help. Everything else looks great, color, 3D depth, no crosstalk, etc. The main reason I decided to keep it vs. trying out the 5020 is the FI in 3D. I find 3D very easy on the eyes with this projector.

It's nice and bright with the lens centered on the HP. I think i'm ok with 3D for a little while until something new comes out in the fall. This is the first year I haven't upgraded, I'm still a fan of the RS55 + W7000 combo. cool.gif

I think the W7000 reviews are still valid today.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/projectors/projectors-reviews/benq-w7000-projector.html

http://www.hometheater.com/content/benq-w7000-3d-dlp-projector-0
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post #3420 of 4154
2/2/13 at 12:47pm
My room is only 12'11" deep. I wanted the w7000 for 3D only. MikeGarret, at avscience, told me that no 3d dlp would work in my room as I use the scope zoom method on on a 40x96" screen. The 7000 has a min throw ratio of 1.6 so it would not fill my screen. Is that 1.6 dead on or could it in practice actually be a little lower? I know it won't fill my entire screen but I'm considering getting the 7000 anyway and just masking down for scope 3d bd's.

Anyone know what width, in reality, I could actually get if the projector was shelf mounted as close to the back wall as possible? If an owner could check this out with their 7000, I would be beyond grateful.smile.gif

Would the zoom method work with this projector placed about 1'3 of the way above the bottom of the screen? I have no idea whar the 7000's vertical shift is.

Other than a conversion lens or HE lens, is there any other way for me to fill the screen i.e. a scaler? If a scaler would work, would it degrade the image in comparison to zooming out?

My 2d jvc has a throw of 1.4 but in practice it is actually a fair amount lower.


Thanks:)

Tom
Edited by Tom Monahan - 2/2/13 at 1:46pm
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout 2012-2013