Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout... - Page 115

My experience is very similar. I continue to be impressed with the 3d on the 7000 and the image is just rock solid as you have mentioned all these months. Watched both the RE 3d movies last night and during the end part of Afterlife when they are in that all white type room on the ship, I was actually squinting a bit from the brightness through the glasses which was awesome! I know you have mentioned this as well at times, but I think I might have spoke to soon about needing much more brightness from this machine in 3d, at least getting the gain I am off the HP. Seeing 3d nearly as bright as my 2d image is absolutely fantastic!

I also have not seen one single rainbow yet on the 7000 in the nearly 100 hours I have put on the lamp so far in either 3d or 2d which I am a bit surprised by. It has been a long time since I owned a DLP, but last one I did have here was rainbow city for me. Guess I am not as sensitive to RBE as I once thought.

Don't be so sure about RBE. DLP's showing 3D show a lot less RBE than when showing 2D. Have you watched anything on the 7000 in 2D? Give it a try and let us know. My Acer is RBE free for me in 3D, but 2D is another story.

In the case of the W7000 I believe the wheel speed is a notch slower for 3D. My experience with the W7000 was rainbows in 3D, next to none in 2D.

I hear ya and I know it might creep up during 2d if/when I start doing more of that. Only 2d I have done so far is maybe 5 hours total playing SSX in the last month or so on the xbox while the rest of my lamp hours have been in 3d. I would think this would be a good RBE test though with the fast quick pans of the snowboarder on the mountain?

Interesting. So since I dont see them at all in 3d, I might continue to be fine in 2d as well from the sounds of it. Time will tell, but I am surprised that I have not seen them yet.

I can see rainbows in 2D on the Benq w7000 occasionally in 4x mode, but it isn't that bad or all that much. I am more rainbow sensitive than most, on the Mits hc4000 I can see them much worse even when in 4x vs. 4x. The Acer 5360 was only a 3x color wheel. I do not find the w7000's 6x CW mode all that useful for me though, as it's too loud, but it's nice to have just in case I suppose. You can make all modes on the w7000 6x speed simply by changing the color wheel from 2x to 3x in the service menu, but again I don't do it because of the noise of the wheel spinning and I don't see rainbows that often.

I also love the fact the Benq has a manual IRIS mode, without this, really need an ND filter for 2D on many screen sizes, but luckily we don't.
Edited by coderguy - 2/2/13 at 6:37pm

Having spent more time with my 5020 now, I do see some crosstalk, but only when I have stark white on dark, mostly type. I don't find it to be noticeable at all during most viewing, but I'm coming from a first generation JVC which always ghosted badly, even with a new bulb, so I understand what you're saying, a lot has to do with what you're used to.
I'm still very impressed and happy with this for 3D in my set up, with no HP screen I need all the brightness and this has a lot.
I finally hooked up my new OPPO 103 with a new RedMere cable, and the handshake issues I was having with a 3D signal have gone away.

S A M 33

Guys, regarding RBE in 2D, I got the W1070 few days ago and the RBE was quite apparent. I saw it quite often watching Hugo but not as bad as the H9500 I had before. However, because the picture was so bright on my 120" screen even with Cinema mode and Smart eco, I went to Bestbuy to get the ND4 filter. Oh boy, the RBE was just about gone !! I can't believe it. I'd say the RBE got cut by > 85%. I can really enjoy watching movies now without getting distracted. Coderguy mentioned in the past the RBE was due to brightness and he was right !! For you guys who are RBE sensitive, give ND filters a try.

 

Why not go into the service menu (of the W7000) and reduce the brightness?

W1070... No iris.

I don't have 3D glasses for the W1070 yet but I don't foresee a problem. The H9500 had worse RBE in 2D but I couldn't see it in 3D.

So how does the w1070 and h9500 compare in 2d?

ND filters can hide a multitude of sins. I've been using them for years with great success.

Tom

Yes, they measurred more off them - the native was between 7000:1 - 18000:1 and the iris gave approx. a 3 times factor ( with "Realistic" dynamic contrast at normal movie playback ).

Light output uncalibrated : 1900 - 2100 lumen and calibrated arround 1600 - 1700 lumen

And they have the extern software ( from Sony ) to calibrate the colors to the videonorm - very

A very interesting thing is, that they say, that you cant calibrate and measure 3D just tru the glasses ( but they dont say how THEY do it then , probably a business secret )
from the site :

"
The actual measurement is made ​​out to be very difficult: Easy to measure through the lens works because of the pulsed method and the loss of light is not accurate, most sensors give in this situation only to fantasy values​​. It is therefore important to determine the appropriate method using special target tones and subsequently to calibrate the calibration without glasses in the optical path."



dj

I do believe you, but Im curious to how they did calibrate the 3D without the glasses in front off them - it would make things much easyer ( I have a hard time getting glasses properly in front of the instrument )

BTW. Jason, could you send me the 3D test patterns you use ( especially that pattern with the L and R ) ? I want to try and see how it looks


dj

What if they simply use 2D targets in 3D mode, thus projecting the same image left and right ?
Am I saying something stupid ?

zombie, maybe it was already discussed. I've stumbled upon this TRUDE universal 3D emitter: http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/MitsubishiHC9000/Trude/Trude_3DSender.htm
It is confirmed to work with Sony HW series and Mitsubishi HC9000/HC5. There are reports of better synchro stability and less light loss behind the same glasses. It is fully customizable with custom refresh rates, timings etc. I wasn't able to find report on improved cross-talk performance.

I definitely agree with them about light in regards to 3D. Just measuring through the glasses is not going to be accurate because the meter is averaging the data and depending on the condition during the average the light measured isn't going to represent what you see with your eyes (which shouldn't see the black frames in between). I've done my initial rough calibration for 3D through the glasses and it turns out pretty well. I've been thinking about different ways to do it though and I'm still mulling it over. Maybe an offset for the glasses so you can measure without them would be one way. I am going to talk with the Spectracal guys and see if they have any ideas.

Hi Kris,

The recommended way is to either profile your colorimeter without the glasses to your spectro through the glasses, and then use the colorimeter without the glasses for the actual calibration, or if you don't have a spectro/meter combo to profile your meter without the glasses (field) to your meter with the glasses (reference), so that again you can do the calibration without the glasses to avoid interference from the shutters, especially when reading low light patterns like dark blue or the low end of the greyscale.

What I do as well is I set the LLH for the meters with the threshold to a very high value during the profiling, that way each offset will be the result of an averaging and should limit the influence of the shutters during the profiling. For example, for the i1pro, enable LLH and instead of using a threshold of 10cd/m2, use a threshold of 150. That way, LLH will be active even when measuring 100% white, not only when measuring the darkest patterns, and each offset for each color will be averaging the max number of samples (I think it's 30 for the i1pro/i1pro2).

This trick of using LLH with a very high threshold is good even when profiling your meters for 2D, it just gives the profile an extra bit of accuracy.

Of course only do this during the profiling, after that restore the LLH threshold to its normal value (or disable it) otherwise the calibration will be super slow.

One last trick when profiling is to make sure you open the iris to the max and switch to high lamp. Even if you lower your iris / switch to low lamp during calibration, this will give optimum accuracy to the profile when reading through the glasses, otherwise it can struggle with blue/magenta.

This produces excellent results, and very repeatable/accurate, in both 2D and 3D (well, with different profiles of course!)

But your eyes also average the light. After all, a common way to vary the brightness of a LED is just to vary its duty cycle. One cannot perceive that it cycles on and off, if the repetition rate is great enough.
Edited by prfssr - 2/4/13 at 4:02pm

Hmmm, I'll definitely be interested in what they have to say. Please keep us posted!

hometheater.com review of hw50 is out. Highest ever score for a projector.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/sony-vpl-hw50es-3d-sxrd-projector

The advice I gave above re profiling is also the official Spectracal advice to calibrate 3D.

The LLH tips are mine though:).