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Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout... - Page 116

post #3451 of 4149
I'm eagarly awaiting Zombie's review on these babies... biggrin.gif:p:D

http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/04/smi-eye-tracking-3d-glasses/
post #3452 of 4149
Thread Starter 
The projector party isn't over yet... cool.gif

thanks to Ravex911 for offering to send in his new Panasonic 8000 for review... very much appreciated!

Some folks have been waiting to see a good comparison between the Epson 5020 and the Panasonic 8000. The battle of the Epson LCD panel's starts soon.

Pansonic_Epson.jpg



Digital storage fans - I've had some issues with 3D BD ISO's and DTS-MA audio tracks on my HiMedia 900B and Micca EP950 (same hardware). I've read some positive reviews about the 'Mediator' and decided to try one out.

No it's not a home theater George Forman Grill. Yes it's the strangest looking piece of hardware in my setup. Yes it plays 3D BD ISO with DTS-MA with no issues. cool.gif

More info on this later when I get some time to go through the settings. In it's raw form, I played back 15 random 3D movies, mostly with DTS-MA tracks and had good luck streaming via SMB from my new 18TB storage array. Very promising so far.

mediator.jpg

mediator1.jpg

fileserver.jpg
post #3453 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

No it's not a home theater George Forman Grill. Yes it's the strangest looking piece of hardware in my setup. mediator.jpg

now I know what infocus did with their leftover IN8x projector cases.
post #3454 of 4149
lol they're a hell of a lot larger than that tongue.gif
post #3455 of 4149
Thread Starter 
if it works as expected, I'll replace it with 600x which is smaller and more 'normal' looking. I don't need the internal HD space.

mediator2.jpg

I don't actually mind what it look it like.. it just needs to work. I really like the 'direct' play which makes it very easy to jump from movie to movie without being held prisoner by the BD JAVA menus / intros.
post #3456 of 4149
Based on all the great advice from this site and specifically this extremely comprehensive shoot out from Jason, I put in my order with Mike at AVS for the Sony HW50. I'm eagerly awaiting it's arrival. In the meantime, I have a couple questions for you guys.

I have an old screen that I purchased with my Sanyo PLV-70 many years ago. It's a DaLite but I don't know anything else about it. Is there a way I can determine the gain and/or the finish?

I have access to an i1 Display by xrite. It's the previous model version. Will this be an effective tool for calibrating the Sony? Or do I need to invest in a newer product? Also can someone point me towards some good DIY calibrating guides?

Thanks again guys. You've all been extremely helpful. wink.gif
post #3457 of 4149
I expect that after zombie's report there will be lots of people ditching their Epsons for Panasonic 8000.
post #3458 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

I expect that after zombie's report there will be lots of people ditching their Epsons for Panasonic 8000.

Just my opinion, but...

That is likely a misguided expectation. wink.gif

Even though these units share many things in common they offer different visual experiences and the area's where the Epson excels seem to currently be the more popular aspects over-all (in the current lumen crazed market).

Jason
post #3459 of 4149
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Just my opinion, but...

That is likely a misguided expectation. wink.gif

Even though these units share many things in common they offer different visual experiences and the area's where the Epson excels seem to currently be the more popular aspects over-all (in the current lumen crazed market).

Jason

you would be correct. At least from what I am seeing in the first few hours of direct A/B. I was hoping there was a factory setting with 1/2 decent color, but this particular copy is off by a mile. It needs a serious calibration right out of the box.

This is 1 time I fully agree with Art.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/projectors/pt-ae8000_vs_hc5020/bottomline.php

I thought something was wrong at first, checking HDMI levels, brightness settings, etc.. but it appears the Epson has a noticeable and obvious advantage here with overall contrast / black floor. I'm reserving any judgement until I do a full calibration on it.



On a similar topic - since I blacked out my ceiling and floor, neither the Epson or the Panasonic satisfies my preference for good contrast / black floor.

I see a lot of discussion about DI and how it compensates for lower native contrast. This just doesn't work in with my setup. I have a large, very bright HP screen with a pitch black room. There is only so much the iris can do with a low light scene. The Dark Knight Rises is a perfect BD to test this.

The HW50, 5020 and Panasonic 8000 look relatively 'flat' compared to the JVC RS55 @ -11 in these low light scenes. The JVC PQ jumps off the screen with an excellent black floor and bright whites at the same time.

some folks like to rag on JVC for various reasons (i'm one of them for 3D) but for my particular setup, none of these projectors I've seen this year can touch the 2D PQ of my 'old' RS55 + e-shift1. That includes the RS4810 since I don't really like what they did with e-shift2.

I do watch a lot of stage concerts, dark movies, sci-fi, etc and the JVC brings them to life on this big HP. High native contrast rules my particular setup and it looks amazing.
post #3460 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

you would be correct. At least from what I am seeing in the first few hours of direct A/B. I was hoping there was a factory setting with 1/2 decent color, but this particular copy is off by a mile. It needs a serious calibration right out of the box.

This is 1 time I fully agree with Art.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/projectors/pt-ae8000_vs_hc5020/bottomline.php

I thought something was wrong at first, checking HDMI levels, brightness settings, etc.. but it appears the Epson has a noticeable and obvious advantage here with overall contrast / black floor. I'm reserving any judgement until I do a full calibration on it.



On a similar topic - since I blacked out my ceiling and floor, neither the Epson or the Panasonic satisfies my preference for good contrast / black floor.

I see a lot of discussion about DI and how it compensates for lower native contrast. This just doesn't work in with my setup. I have a large, very bright HP screen with a pitch black room. There is only so much the iris can do with a low light scene. The Dark Knight Rises is a perfect BD to test this.

The HW50, 5020 and Panasonic 8000 look relatively 'flat' compared to the JVC RS55 @ -11 in these low light scenes. The JVC PQ jumps off the screen with an excellent black floor and bright whites at the same time.

some folks like to rag on JVC for various reasons (i'm one of them for 3D) but for my particular setup, none of these projectors I've seen this year can touch the 2D PQ of my 'old' RS55 + e-shift1. That includes the RS4810 since I don't really like what they did with e-shift2.

I do watch a lot of stage concerts, dark movies, sci-fi, etc and the JVC brings them to life on this big HP. High native contrast rules my particular setup and it looks amazing.

It is amazing what a good room can do for your image, with the right projector.
Reply
Reply
post #3461 of 4149
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

It is amazing what a good room can do for your image, with the right projector.

I wasn't expecting it to be this substantial, but it is. Without a light treated room, folks are really missing out on what the JVC is capable of. It starts distancing itself very quickly from the other models.
post #3462 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

if it works as expected, I'll replace it with 600x which is smaller and more 'normal' looking. I don't need the internal HD space.

mediator2.jpg

I don't actually mind what it look it like.. it just needs to work. I really like the 'direct' play which makes it very easy to jump from movie to movie without being held prisoner by the BD JAVA menus / intros.

I use that player since 3 months now and it is very good and reliable...

Be sure to subscribe to the beta group as the lastest beta version add many things to the table like true 23.978fps in 2D and 3D smile.gif
post #3463 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

if it works as expected, I'll replace it with 600x which is smaller and more 'normal' looking. I don't need the internal HD space.

mediator2.jpg

I don't actually mind what it look it like.. it just needs to work. I really like the 'direct' play which makes it very easy to jump from movie to movie without being held prisoner by the BD JAVA menus / intros.

Really looking forward to any additional thoughts you have on this, Jason. I gave away a couple of PCs lately, including a HTPC in a bedroom. I might want to replace it with one of these.
post #3464 of 4149
Probably missed it, but what's the name/model of that device? Is it 600x? Who makes it?
post #3465 of 4149
Mede8er MED600x3D
Edited by Joseph Clark - 2/6/13 at 5:59pm
post #3466 of 4149
Jason,

Do you know if the 600x can play back S3D m2ts and mp4 files?

Anyway, I just bought one. For the price, it's worth playing around with. I'll link it to my Unraid servers and try out the jukebox functionality.
post #3467 of 4149
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Jason,

Do you know if the 600x can play back S3D m2ts and mp4 files?

Anyway, I just bought one. For the price, it's worth playing around with. I'll link it to my Unraid servers and try out the jukebox functionality.

I'm not sure, I only have 3D BD ISO's to test. Let me know how it works for you when you get.

@ rick - thanks for the heads up on the beta, I'm going to sign up an test the 3D framerate that never got fixed on the Micca 950 / Himedia 900B. The only thing I don't like it is the Mediator remote control, I much prefer the Mica 950 style.
post #3468 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Mede8er MED600x3D

Thanks!
post #3469 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The projector party isn't over yet... cool.gif

thanks to Ravex911 for offering to send in his new Panasonic 8000 for review... very much appreciated!

Some folks have been waiting to see a good comparison between the Epson 5020 and the Panasonic 8000. The battle of the Epson LCD panel's starts soon.

Pansonic_Epson.jpg



Digital storage fans - I've had some issues with 3D BD ISO's and DTS-MA audio tracks on my HiMedia 900B and Micca EP950 (same hardware). I've read some positive reviews about the 'Mediator' and decided to try one out.

No it's not a home theater George Forman Grill. Yes it's the strangest looking piece of hardware in my setup. Yes it plays 3D BD ISO with DTS-MA with no issues. cool.gif

More info on this later when I get some time to go through the settings. In it's raw form, I played back 15 random 3D movies, mostly with DTS-MA tracks and had good luck streaming via SMB from my new 18TB storage array. Very promising so far.

mediator.jpg

mediator1.jpg

fileserver.jpg

Jason that photo above with the white Epson......is that a reflection that makes it look as if no lens is on it??
post #3470 of 4149
Ron,

The Epson has a motorized lens cover (which you likely know).

* and I would venture to guess it is not a dummy sample with no innards, hehe. wink.gif

** Oh and yes I know you were not asking me (a different Jason).

Jason
Edited by DaGamePimp - 2/7/13 at 12:38pm
post #3471 of 4149
I'm desperate to find a USED RS55 with very good focus and very good out of the box convergence. Trying to find one has been a pain in the rear. I wish eshift 2 was as good as eshift 1.mad.gif
post #3472 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Monahan View Post

I'm desperate to find a USED RS55 with very good focus and very good out of the box convergence. Trying to find one has been a pain in the rear. I wish eshift 2 was as good as eshift 1.mad.gif

You need to look at the refurbished one JVC themselves has on eBay that includes the 2 years manufacturers warranty.

Mike
post #3473 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Monahan View Post

I'm desperate to find a USED RS55 with very good focus and very good out of the box convergence. Trying to find one has been a pain in the rear. I wish eshift 2 was as good as eshift 1.mad.gif
Why isn't eshift2 as good as eshift1? Because zombie says so? No offense to zombie, but that's one man's opinion. Even if you personally thought eshift1 was indeed better (which is a tough call based on a few internet screen shots), I'm sure the difference at your seated position would be subtle at best. And zombie even said himself that there are some settings that allow eshift2 to look very, very similar to eshift1.

I don't know, it just seems silly to me to be willing to pay top dollar for a used RS55 when you can get a brand new RS4810 for so much less. But hey, it's your money.
post #3474 of 4149
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

Why isn't eshift2 as good as eshift1? Because zombie says so? No offense to zombie, but that's one man's opinion. Even if you personally thought eshift1 was indeed better (which is a tough call based on a few internet screen shots), I'm sure the difference at your seated position would be subtle at best. And zombie even said himself that there are some settings that allow eshift2 to look very, very similar to eshift1.

I don't know, it just seems silly to me to be willing to pay top dollar for a used RS55 when you can get a brand new RS4810 for so much less. But hey, it's your money.

I don't think he's looking to pay top dollar, there's been some well priced, lightly used X70/RS55's in the market. More importantly, he's looking for a cherry picked model. One with excellent convergence and focus. Some people will pay a premium for golden sample. They do exist, but there's a bit of luck involved in getting one.

Sample variances can make a difference in the overall PQ. The perfect sample imo has excellent convergence, focus and consistent color and gray field uniformity.


regarding e-shift 1 and 2, several other owners have stated a preference for e-shift 1. Something has changed as I can't quite match the natural appearance of the original e-shift process. How this translates to a difference in PQ, I can't put a number on it. But I do have a preference for the original e-shift process after seeing them side by side. Most folks are going to like both processes, others will prefer RC, etc. It's good to have options.

e-shift2.jpg

e-shift4.jpg
post #3475 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

e-shift4.jpg
The text above looks superior. Which one is it?
Edited by Elix - 2/7/13 at 11:36pm
post #3476 of 4149
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

The text above looks superior? Which one is it?

it's the older model RS55. There are no menu settings changes that will make it look the same. The e-shift sensor is definitely different this year, so perhaps that might explain the difference.
post #3477 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

Why isn't eshift2 as good as eshift1? Because zombie says so? No offense to zombie, but that's one man's opinion. Even if you personally thought eshift1 was indeed better (which is a tough call based on a few internet screen shots), I'm sure the difference at your seated position would be subtle at best. And zombie even said himself that there are some settings that allow eshift2 to look very, very similar to eshift1.

I don't know, it just seems silly to me to be willing to pay top dollar for a used RS55 when you can get a brand new RS4810 for so much less. But hey, it's your money.

In Jason I trust.

As I can't see these projectors in person, I turn to the one who's opinion I respect most. Those screenshots say it all IMO.

I would rather buy a used 55 that I know has excellent out of the box convergence and focus and pay a premium for it than buy a 4810 new. You may consider it silly but I don't.

I'm tired of having projectors with only fair convergence and focus.

Since I have only 3 to 5 years left, I want to enjoy myself and the 55 for 2D is the projector that will make it happen.

Tom
Edited by Tom Monahan - 2/7/13 at 11:22pm
post #3478 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbw23air View Post

You need to look at the refurbished one JVC themselves has on eBay that includes the 2 years manufacturers warranty.

Mike

I'm looking to buy one from an actual owner who could verify the convergence and focus. Buying any other way is too big of a risk.

Thanks for the suggestion anyway.smile.gif

Tom
post #3479 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

Why isn't eshift2 as good as eshift1? Because zombie says so? No offense to zombie, but that's one man's opinion. Even if you personally thought eshift1 was indeed better (which is a tough call based on a few internet screen shots), I'm sure the difference at your seated position would be subtle at best. And zombie even said himself that there are some settings that allow eshift2 to look very, very similar to eshift1.

I don't know, it just seems silly to me to be willing to pay top dollar for a used RS55 when you can get a brand new RS4810 for so much less. But hey, it's your money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I don't think he's looking to pay top dollar, there's been some well priced, lightly used X70/RS55's in the market. More importantly, he's looking for a cherry picked model. One with excellent convergence and focus. Some people will pay a premium for golden sample. They do exist, but there's a bit of luck involved in getting one.

Sample variances can make a difference in the overall PQ. The perfect sample imo has excellent convergence, focus and consistent color and gray field uniformity.


regarding e-shift 1 and 2, several other owners have stated a preference for e-shift 1. Something has changed as I can't quite match the natural appearance of the original e-shift process. How this translates to a difference in PQ, I can't put a number on it. But I do have a preference for the original e-shift process after seeing them side by side. Most folks are going to like both processes, others will prefer RC, etc. It's good to have options.

e-shift4.jpg

I'm one of the owners that prefers eshift1. I've owned both an RS55 and now the RS4810. I noticed a difference in the eshifted picture right from the get-go. I sit at 1.6 Screen Widths and saw a benefit to eshift1 and considered it a must have. I no longer feel that way and use my RS4810 with eshift2 turned off. Eshift1 appeared natural yet it added detail that I could see at 1.6 SW. Not so with eshift2 IMO. The picture looks too processed with eshift2 even with the controls turned down. Like Jason I can't quite put my finger on what it is that distracts but for me eshift2 is a step backwards. They should have left well enough alone, or at the very least given us an eshift1 mode. I'm probably in the minority here but that's the way I see it. YMMV!
post #3480 of 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post


I'm one of the owners that prefers eshift1. I've owned both an RS55 and now the RS4810. I noticed a difference in the eshifted picture right from the get-go. I sit at 1.6 Screen Widths and saw a benefit to eshift1 and considered it a must have. I no longer feel that way and use my RS4810 with eshift2 turned off. Eshift1 appeared natural yet it added detail that I could see at 1.6 SW. Not so with eshift2 IMO. The picture looks too processed with eshift2 even with the controls turned down. Like Jason I can't quite put my finger on what it is that distracts but for me eshift2 is a step backwards. They should have left well enough alone, or at the very least given us an eshift1 mode. I'm probably in the minority here but that's the way I see it. YMMV!

How did you compare them?
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