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Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout... - Page 122

post #3631 of 4154
2/20/13 at 6:50am
I need to watch both of those movies still. Hmm those Samsung are only 19.99 at my store. Are they any good at all
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post #3632 of 4154
2/20/13 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoguy1 View Post

The XPand 104 work well if you have the IR emitter. With the RF emitter, I've been using the cheap Samsung SSG-4100GB without any problems. I would like to use the XPands with the RF emitter but cannot find the RF dongle to make them compatible with RF.

Unfortunately the only place I've seen them is from Xpand at $39.95 each. This is almost more than the glasses alone.mad.gif
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post #3633 of 4154
2/21/13 at 5:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I had the HW50 and the PT-AE8000 next to each other last night in a direct A/B. The HW50 beats this projector in nearly every category except the automatic lens. cool.gif
Some observations:
2D PQ - HW50 has better perceived sharpness from seating distance with the reality creation (I recommend turning this down to 10 or minimum in 2D, ~25 in 3D mode)

Well, after 54 hours on lamp, I’m in love with Sony’s Reality Creation, especially in 3D. I use it in most of movies, but I would say RC settings in 2D depends on source, and sometimes even on exact scene. With some of movies RC even on 20-25 does good job. Picture appears clearer, really sharper, more shadow details. In some 2D I prefer RC on minimum, in another I turn it of because of noticeable noise.
Few days ago I took my friends Nikon D800 and made some shots. Here is some 2D screenshots with RC on/off.
Content is BDMV, BD remux, BD iso.
Player - Pioneer BDP-440 and Kaiboer k830i.
Image diagonal 160”. The screen is MW.
Lamp on low, settings are almost same that you recommend above, on some photos gamma on “gamma 7” and "color space 3" I believe.
District 9 is movie which has a good relationships with RC. Here RC 25.



Game Of Thrones, RC 10.




With Avengers and Hugo it was on Minimum I guess...




And here I prefer to turn off the RC. Fifth Element.


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post #3634 of 4154
2/21/13 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

RICH WATCHES 3D, FINALLY...

Embarrassingly enough, after owning the JVC RS55 (my first 3D projector) since it came out, I only just viewed my first 3D material on the thing! This was due to the fact that I had some more complicated wiring issues to get 3D to my projector which made meput it off for a long time. Now having finally done the wiring I put on some test material.

I watched some of Finding Nemo in 3D and Avatar. My reaction: Well...kinda cool, but nothing life changing. I didn't find that 3D added tons to the experience of Finding Nemo, which looked sharper and more vivid in 2D. Avatar being made in and for 3D certainly benefited more. Some scenes were really awesome in 3D. When some people say 3D should only project depth back into the screen rather than forward toward the audience, I heavily disagree, and as an example refer to the white, floating spores (or whatever the hell they are) float down and surround Jake and Neytiri, with the spores coming right off the screen in front of you. I vividly remember this as being a pivotal "wow, 3D CAN add to the experience" moment in the theater, so it was gratifying to re-experience it at home.

But overall I came away with the impression that I don't care too much about the 3D experience, at home anyway. My eyes still feel like they are going cross-eyed for a while when watching with those glasses. Images aren't as vivid and sharp and certainly the brightness loss hurts as well. Also, playing with screen sizes in my system, zooming the image to various sizes, shows me why I've never once been interested in watching our 3D flat screen in 3D. It's just too small. Even on my projection screen I kept feeling like I needed a cinematic-type immersion to really make the 3D more immersive and less a novelty I'm viewing on a small square in front of me. So for me, at my 10ish foot seating distance, I wanted the screen to be at least 105" diagonal, if not 110" and beyond.

I know the JVC is often dissed for it's 3D performance, so I know that better 3D is possible at home. Mostly the experience feels promising but not there yet. Then again, that's how I usually feel with 3D even at good theaters. The other thing is, I've been trying to increase the image dimensionality effect with 2D by treating my room - which is a "bat cave" surrounded by black velvet for movie viewing, the image floating in black. Watching even Avatar with and without 3D, the sense of depth achievable with 2D is so good that one hardly misses 3D. For instance the shots of the space station fly-overs in the opening scene had an almost identical sense of depth in 2D vs 3D.

Anyway, that's my extremely-late-to-the-party experience.

I agree with you. Part of this has to do with ones room. It makes a big difference when your room has dark non reflective surfaces. The opening scene of Avatar with the space ship coming toward you looks just like it is coming out of the screen in 2D.
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post #3635 of 4154
2/21/13 at 7:59am
Rich. To me the 3D experience should be the same as if you were there with your eyes which of course many times the there is CGI and not actual. but anyway. The floating seeds or whatever. Yes. Its what you would see if the there was real and you were there. my problem with much of the 3D in avatar unlike that in sat Hugo which I strongly recommend you purchase and watch, is giving three dimensionality to objects at a range where no 3d would be noticeable in real life. Our ability to see anything with deptgh depends on how far away we are from the object. because are eyes are very close together an object needs to be only a short distance away before you will not see any depth in it.
this distance is probably something less than 50 ft away. but simply lok at any object with two eyes and then cover one eye. besides it being dimmer do you perceive the object any differently.

anyhow do try Hugo. the 3d is really good and you will enjoy it.
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post #3636 of 4154
2/21/13 at 5:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yusuf.0088 View Post

Well, after 54 hours on lamp, I’m in love with Sony’s Reality Creation, especially in 3D. I use it in most of movies, but I would say RC settings in 2D depends on source, and sometimes even on exact scene. With some of movies RC even on 20-25 does good job. Picture appears clearer, really sharper, more shadow details. In some 2D I prefer RC on minimum, in another I turn it of because of noticeable noise.

thanks for the feedback, I think most who have seen the HW50 will agree. The RC is very good for most content, but there's definitely some content where it needs to be turned off.

Our larger screens (142" + 160") may be a contributing factor. This is why I made a choice to stay with the RS55 this year, the e-shift is good enough to leave on all the time, regardless of the content. It's more subtle with noise than RC is.

I would like to have seen more RC controls, similar to how JVC increased the controls with e-shift 2. There's many dynamics to the PQ that RC is changing in the attempt to improve the perceived sharpness. Extra controls would allow this to be tuned to perfection. Sometimes 'minimum' setting is still too much. 5th element is a good example.

My only complaint to Sony this year is that they need to turn down the FI in 3D. I watched about 5 hours of 3D the other night after calibrating an HW50 and the FI is a bit too much for my preferences. I used to brag about this feature on the old HW30, but it seems the overall process has been increased this year. It appears more like 'medium' if there was such a setting.

enjoy the projector, it's one of the best, well balanced 2D/3D models out right now in this price category. The calibration of this model is a dream compared to some of the other projectors.
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post #3637 of 4154
2/21/13 at 8:58pm
I wonder how one could down frame interpolation. basically it insers a new frame inserted between two of the original frames Sort of like deinterlacing but its done from two p frames. There are cobinations were new frames and black frames can bother be inserted but I am not sure how it could be turned down except perhaps by naking the generated frames less bright than the original. I think that is possible. It also has something to do with how long each frame is viewed by the interval the glass shutters are open. Your thoughts?
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post #3638 of 4154
2/22/13 at 5:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I wonder how one could down frame interpolation. basically it insers a new frame inserted between two of the original frames Sort of like deinterlacing but its done from two p frames. There are cobinations were new frames and black frames can bother be inserted but I am not sure how it could be turned down except perhaps by naking the generated frames less bright than the original. I think that is possible. It also has something to do with how long each frame is viewed by the interval the glass shutters are open. Your thoughts?

I think their version of "turned down" was intended to be the film mode so to speak with the DFI. Sadly, there is just too much flicker on 24p content to make it watchable for me.
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post #3639 of 4154
2/22/13 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

I think their version of "turned down" was intended to be the film mode so to speak with the DFI. Sadly, there is just too much flicker on 24p content to make it watchable for me.

That's how it's supposed to look. That flicker is to make it look like true 24fps.
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post #3640 of 4154
2/22/13 at 6:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I wonder how one could down frame interpolation. basically it insers a new frame inserted between two of the original frames Sort of like deinterlacing but its done from two p frames. There are cobinations were new frames and black frames can bother be inserted but I am not sure how it could be turned down except perhaps by naking the generated frames less bright than the original. I think that is possible. It also has something to do with how long each frame is viewed by the interval the glass shutters are open. Your thoughts?

there are different user settings for the FI so there must be something in the programming that affects how aggressive the FI appears.

It was less aggressive and more natural appearing in the HW30 vs. HW50, several others who have seen both have made similar comments. certainly not a dealbreaker, just curious why they chose to turn up the wick in the refreshed model.
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post #3641 of 4154
2/22/13 at 8:03am
"These go to eleven".
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post #3642 of 4154
2/23/13 at 3:34pm
I just pulled the trigger on a Sony hw50es. It won't ship until Monday so I have until then to change my mind and go in another direction. I'm coming from an epson 5010 and initially planned on getting a 5020 until I read through this thread. I would be open to spending more on the jvc rs55 if it would be a better projector for my situation.

I mainly watch directv high definition tv shows (30 hours a week) blurays (one a week) and 3d content an average of only once a month if that so 3d performance is not high on my priority list.

The room is 17.5'x13.5'. The throw distance is 16'. This is not a batcave and I do watch tv during daylight hours. The curtains block most but not all light. There are windows on the right wall and behind the projector. Current wall colors are flat beige except for wall where the screen is mounted is a darker red/brown. There is also a mirror on the back side (closer to the projector side) of the left wall. Ceiling is white. I am open to painting part of the ceiling black in front of the screen. How much of the ceiling should I paint black? (In feet). The screen is mounted with the frame less than an in h from the ceiling, projector will be ceiling mounted. The screen is a 123" 16:9 Stewart firehawk 3g. Did I make the right decision purchasing the Sony hw50es or should I switch to a factory refurbished jvc rs55 or epson 5020ub or other suggestions? Sony 95? Also, coming from the epson with an automatic lens cover I've never had to deal with a lens cover. If I stick with the Sony should I cover it after every use even though it will be used daily? Can I cover it directly after shutting off the projector or do I need to let it cool down?

Thank you for your input guys. As a side note I also ordered one of the open box darbee darblets from solid signal on Friday so that will be in my chain as well. I'm using a Denon 4311 as a pre/pro.
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post #3643 of 4154
2/23/13 at 3:48pm
Also, I don't know the first thing about calibration so I will only be calibrating using the Disney WoW disk. One last question. Is the chromapure auto calibration packages clearly worth the $$? I was looking at the one for $769, eyeone advanced 3 pro with advanced autocalibrate. And is this software truly automatic and for someone with no experience.
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post #3644 of 4154
2/23/13 at 3:57pm
Thread Starter 
The HW50 is a good choice for this setup. The lamps are the least expensive of the current models which helps if you rack up the hours.

Don't worry about the lens cover, it's not necessary to cover it. For the ceiling, ideally you would have it black at least 1 screen height. My screen is relatively large and is also very close to the ceiling. Reducing the light here makes a big difference with perceived contrast.

Set it to user 1, D65, Rec 709 and the gamma @ 2.2 which gets you a decent out of the box setup. The reality creation setting is a little high from the factory, I usually turn it down to below 10 or as far as 'minimum'. The RC @ minimum + Darbee @ 25-30 looks nice.

I also have the Denon 4311 as well. I was going back and forth between this model and the Pioneer SC-68, but I like the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 for my multi-sub setup so I moved the Pioneer to a TV room.

regarding the autocal, you would need a Lumagen Mini 3D processor to go along with that kit for the autocalibrate. This isn't really necessary on the HW50 since it's has very good out of the box settings compared to the other models this year. Just the calibrated D3 meter and Chromapure standard kit is all you need to tune the projector. The workflow in CP is easy to follow so even beginners can get the hang of after a day or 2 of tinkering.
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post #3645 of 4154
2/23/13 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidibecker View Post

I would be open to spending more on the jvc rs55 if it would be a better projector for my situation.
Do you mean the X55/RS48/RS4810? The RS55 is last year's model (it aligns with the RS56 in this year's JVC line-up) and, unless you're looking for a used projector, you'll likely be spending quite a bit more for the RS55 vs the X55 -- the RS55's MSRP is $8K compared to the X55's MSRP of $5K.

EDIT: Oops, didn't read your entire post; see that you were indeed considering a used RS55. I'd be inclined to go with Zombie's recommendation, but the RS4810 is also worthy of your consideration.
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post #3646 of 4154
2/23/13 at 4:04pm
Awesome. Thank you for the quick response zombie. So keep the order for the hw50 over getting jvc rs55 for my setup.
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post #3647 of 4154
2/23/13 at 5:00pm
I will paint the front portion of the ceiling black. Does that change opinions? Jvc or Sony... Want best projector for 2d performance for directv HD
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post #3648 of 4154
2/23/13 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidibecker View Post

I will paint the front portion of the ceiling black. Does that change opinions? Jvc or Sony... Want best projector for 2d performance for directv HD

I would still pick the Sony. I think it fits your needs better. I lean that way due to how much TV you will be watch with some ambient light. The Sony is really bright and it's also very quiet in High lamp mode. If it was dedicated to 2d, I would pick the JVC.
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post #3649 of 4154
2/23/13 at 8:47pm
Given the fact that you're going to have to deal with ambient lighting, I'd also recommend the Sony -- it's simply brighter than the JVC. The JVC would be fine for the very limited 3D viewing you anticipate if ambient light wasn't an issue.
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post #3650 of 4154
2/23/13 at 10:09pm
Looks like I will be sticking with the hw50es. Should be here Wednesday. Can't wait. Do you think I'll notice a step up from my epson 5010? Are there any areas that I might notice the Sony being worse? I never used the 5010 in dynamic mode so the less maximum lumens I don't see being an issue.
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post #3651 of 4154
2/24/13 at 12:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidibecker View Post

Looks like I will be sticking with the hw50es. Should be here Wednesday. Can't wait. Do you think I'll notice a step up from my epson 5010? Are there any areas that I might notice the Sony being worse? I never used the 5010 in dynamic mode so the less maximum lumens I don't see being an issue.

I came from an Epson 6010 and JVC RS46 and I can honestly nothing is better on the Epsom expect absolute brightness. The Sony is very bright when you need it and keeps a great color also.

I think you will be very pleased.
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post #3652 of 4154
2/24/13 at 9:15am
Thread Starter 
JC - if you're still fiddling with the Mediator, I've been experimenting with the Disney 3D titles that have seamless branching. These seem to skip a lot more during M2TS transitions than the Micca 950 did.

I ended up using MakeMKV which can extract the 3D MVC. The resulting file is full 3D frame packed with no skipping + DTS-HD audio as well, very cool !

I tested this out with several different disney titles and they all play back perfect on the Mediator. I believe the Mediator is one of the only players than can handle the 3D MVC files.
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post #3653 of 4154
2/24/13 at 10:28am
Thanks, Jason. I ran across a couple of references to that. I'll have to give it a try. Does it stitch together the m2ts files? Even playing back from hard drive, I notice some Disney titles (like Tangled) have minor macro blocking during certain transitions. I'm still waiting to see if Limetech works out the problems that RC11 of Unraid introduced. Overall, though, I'm really pleased with the 600X. It also recognizes HDDs bigger than 2TB, which the Micca 950 won't.
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post #3654 of 4154
2/24/13 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Thanks, Jason. I ran across a couple of references to that. I'll have to give it a try. Does it stitch together the m2ts files? Even playing back from hard drive, I notice some Disney titles (like Tangled) have minor macro blocking during certain transitions. I'm still waiting to see if Limetech works out the problems that RC11 of Unraid introduced. Overall, though, I'm really pleased with the 600X. It also recognizes HDDs bigger than 2TB, which the Micca 950 won't.

You can use eac3to if you have blu-ray's that have several m2ts files that need to be stitched together. They're pretty uncommon though. Usually they're only like that if the film has alternate endings, extended cut and original cut, or other bonus content. eac3to accounts for time audio gaps and corrects for that as well when stitching. There's a bit of a learning gap to use it as you run it through command prompt. People have created GUIs for it but the stand alone exe is a lot more powerful then the GUIs or MakeMKV.
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post #3655 of 4154
2/24/13 at 2:20pm
Clown_bd is a good GUI front end for eac3to that I've had very good luck with.
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post #3656 of 4154
2/24/13 at 2:25pm
But these don't work with Blu-ray 3D titles do they?
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post #3657 of 4154
2/24/13 at 3:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Thanks, Jason. I ran across a couple of references to that. I'll have to give it a try. Does it stitch together the m2ts files? Even playing back from hard drive, I notice some Disney titles (like Tangled) have minor macro blocking during certain transitions. I'm still waiting to see if Limetech works out the problems that RC11 of Unraid introduced. Overall, though, I'm really pleased with the 600X. It also recognizes HDDs bigger than 2TB, which the Micca 950 won't.

MakeMKV does stitch the M2TS files together, I've done a number Disney titles so far with good luck. I just pick the main movie, HD + Core audio and skip all the subtitles.

makemkv.jpg

I've had some issues with ClownBD + eac3to, it doesn't seem to like 3D BD's that were ripped w/ AnyDVD HD. MakeMKV works relatively quick and the resulting files play back with no issues. There is 1 downfall, you have to add '3DSBS' to the file name so it plays automatically in 3D. Or when it plays, just choose SBS or T&B. it's not really either, it just triggers the projector to go in 3D mode, it's definitely playing full frame packed 3D.

That's odd you couldn't get a 3TB drive in the Mica 950, I have 3 separate 3TB drives that work ok with that unit. I formated them with NTFS in the PC first.

I missed some of your issues with Unraid, are you having trouble streaming 3D BD's? I've was too with SMB on Windows 7 (host OS for my 18TB raid setup), but I went with HaneWIN NFS server. I set the NFS transfer size to 32768 on the host and also on the Mediator. So far, it's been working great with no skipping w/ 3D BD ISO + DTS-MA audio.

This would have been a dream back in the day to play back 3D MKV's with full HD audio on my old popcorn hour A-110 and C200. I read the new 400 model is having a fair amount of growing pains. same for the new Dune 3D player that is out in the UK. Mediator seems to have a lead here so far, at least in regard to framepacked 3D playback.
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post #3658 of 4154
2/24/13 at 5:02pm
Sorry, just a bit more OT. Please skip if you're not interested.

Adding 3DSBS to the mkv file name didn't trigger the automatic frame packed playback of Tangled, but selecting SBS manually did.

Unraid ver5rc11 has problems with NFS - doesn't see the iso files. Just as with Windows, playback in Unraid via SMB is buggy, with lots of audio and video glitches, especially if there's DTS HD MA. I'm going to roll back to Unraid ver5rc10. Apparently, it works better. I've retired my MIcca to the 3D video edit suite, for dedicated duties as a playback device for my own original 3D videos. It works fine for that.
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post #3659 of 4154
2/24/13 at 9:47pm
Is the lumegan radiance mini 3d worth the cost to use with the Sony hw50es? Will it make directv HD significantly better?
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post #3660 of 4154
2/25/13 at 1:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

So far I love my HW50. Room isn't completed yet so its just being thrown onto a beige wall in my living room. One thing I did notice, shown in the poor picture below (i only have an iphone so sorry), is there appears to be a slight border thats a lighter haze than the actual projected image. This mainly shows on content that is very dark or all black. I don't know if this is some kind of reflection or if its actually an issue. This is my first projector, so I figured I would throw it out here to make sure its not a problem or something to really be concerned with. Kind of hard to see, but there is no screen or border here. This is all projected image.

AppleMark


Yep, I have exactly the same on my HW50 and also noticed that on a completely black image light does seems to leek onto the screen, though it does fade after a few minutes when the lamp has warmed up. I also have it on the top right.

My previous JVC also had the same trait and was considered normal and in spec by JVC, maybe a panel attribute?
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout 2012-2013