Sony HW50 / BenQ W7000 / Epson 5020 / JVC RS55 / JVC RS 46 / JVC RS4810 / JVC RS56 Mini-shootout... - Page 3

Thanks Zombie for the rolling review!!
You should do your own website reviews. I would subscribe.

Excellent review Zombie. Thank you for taking the time to do these reviews, they greatly help those of us who don't get a chance see all these projectors together make a decision.

you could do SBS with one of the PJs running in rear projection... each filling half the screen, then you could post close-ups of the same portion of the scene (mirror imaged). you know, since you don't have enough to do

Zombie10k,

Could you elaborate a little more on the black floor of the HW50 in comparison to an Rs45? The assumption is the Rs55 is slightly better than the RS45 but from memory is the difference in overall black levels going to be immediately noticeable? For my particular needs I have a 2.4 gain HP which should be slightly more forgive able than your 2.8 HP.

Also,

With RC on is the better optics of the RS45 going to be missed? Upgrading from an RS45 to a RS46 is my 2nd choice but even if it does exhibit less ghosting the lack of FI in 3D is going to sorely missed.

Lastly, is the lack of the DI working in 3D missed? I'm sure the contrast won't be as good as the JVC but the glasses are already tinted giving black levels a boost on all projectors in 3D to a certain extent.

I think this is what a lot of us would like to know. We are all in search of better black levels, but are we approaching hair splitting differences at this point? My RS20 had, IMO, fantastic black levels. Does an RS55 have better black levels? It appears so. But could anyone definitively say this without a direct A/B comparison? In real world viewing, what percentage trickles down to perceivable differences. If I have pj 1 that claims a 50,000 CR and pj 2 that claims a 100,000 CR, we all know that we won't realize twice the contrast, but what kind of a percentage should we realize...... 20%.... 50%?

As other reviewers have stated; if black levels are within striking distance of each other, more important things come to the forefront. Motion and sharpness, IMO, are easier to spot small differences and become a larger factor at this point.

Firstly, great work Zombie - your efforts are most appreciated! I'm inclined to like the results of RC only working, although can see the extra level of fine tuning with both RC and Darbee being applied.

Per the above comment though - i am not one of 'them' but what is the issues implied with the Panasonic?. I had been looking at the new 8K until fell for the HW50 - it has been getting good reviews , have I missed something or does it just not hold its own in 'black levels' compared to the Sony/JVC's ??

I think for pure, unadulterated blacks, nothing can match JVC lb for lb.

As Zombie mentioned earlier however; is this only going to manifest itself in a very small assortment of titles? Do they make up ground in other areas such as shadow detail?

Thanks for the comments. It seems you're not seeing that extra "pop out" that Kraine comments about in his review. I'm looking forward to your thoughts about the 5020.

Thanks zombie10k for doing this for us at avsforum. Just waiting now for the Epson 5020 vs Benq W7000 in 3D.

Man I wish this 3d craze would die already. Then we could get back to focusing on important stuff, like improved 2d performance.

This gives me a reason to upgade my FP or not.

Here's a concept I like. According to it the difference is going to be 6% (47 dB / 50 dB).

Hasnt improved 2D performance had its day

Hardly, but the 3D craze seems a bigger deal to get 'right' on the big screen project than the 40-50" TV screens where the effect is limited.

Not a showstopper in my purchase but definitely an element I want to perform to the best of its ability.

Thanks Zombie for the great work!

Thanks for the details. That sound would be very hard to live with. This has me 2nd guessing my pre-order.

Granted, the JVC had a better black floor but for my use, the slower panels, lower light output and poor 3D image of the JVC has me going the Sony route. The new epsons are a better head to matchup with the Sony, but I believe the Sony wins there with it's better color. This is just a guess at this point because these other projectors are not available for testing.

The cheapest Epson got a great review from PC and its accurate colour out of the box was mentioned several times. Will the 5020 follow suite? The 5020 should be better in every respect like the 5010 was vis-`a-vis the 3010.

"2D image quality. The Home Cinema 3020e has a lot going for it. For one, the default white balance puts it right near 6500K without doing a single stitch of calibration. Secondly, the combination of high brightness and good shadow detail give it a very three-dimensional image. Third, while it is best used in a living room or other bright-ish environment, it also has an automatic iris that makes it a respectable choice for nighttime movies. Finally, although it does not have frame interpolation, it has a motion detect system that can clean up standard-definition content from DVDs. In fact, standard definition performance is strong in general. If you still have a large DVD library, like I do, it's worth considering."

This should be a very competitive head-to-head battle this year.

Does the HW50ES shipping in the US include the extra lamp in the projector box, or is it like in Canada where the spare lamp is a mail-in offer?

Am I correct in my understanding that the high frequency buzzing only occurs in 3D mode?

The Bulb should be in the box according directly to a Sony rep who contacted me on this. The buzzing only occurs in 3D while using the onboard emitter for some reason.
If you use the outboard emitter I am told the noise goes away.

Here is the buzzing for your reference:

http://soundcloud.com/tj-demonte/hw50-buzzing


This sound byte is a little loud and out of context, but a good way to test this would be bring it in your HT room, set Ipad, Iphone, laptop where your PJ would be, and set the volume to where the fan sound is the approximate PJ fan volume for a given distance.

Now sit in your normal spot turn on your avg movie (sound only and see if it is nuisance, in my case i can hear the High frequency component of the sound as I turn my head 5 ft away through a wall...it actually phases depending upon head position.

This is a discouraging development... I hope to have the actual unit here to test with shortly. Maybe it is not as bad in person... the mic could have been sensitive to the frequencies emitted.
Edited by tehotaone - 10/22/12 at 7:23am

I I'm hoping that the JVC 4810 performs well.I really woul like to upgrade to JVC. I have been spending most of my free time researching the best bang for your buck and I'm leaning towards the pan 8000u,it is getting great reviews all over the net.

Glad to hear that the spare lamp ships with the projector. This is an easier process than a mail-in offer. As I couldn't care less about 3D, I am happy to hear (pun intended) that the high frequency buzzing only occurs in 3D mode. This sounds like it is likely the result of the lamp modulation technique used to increase light output in 3D. If that is the case, then I am not sure why switching to an external IR emitter would eliminate this noise.

Have you seen 3D on a good home projection setup? I initially felt the same. It's much better at home than what is in the cinema, even on the JVCs.

Also, to be honest the biggest area where 2D picture quality needs to be improved in is in the area of black levels. Improvements seen from year to year in most cases are very small. Unless the start seeing some big advancements in this area I give up on that for now. I was waiting for the infinite black level plasma about 3-4 years ago from Pioneer and when they folded I've moved to FP. The RS45 is pretty much the same as an RS2 when black levels are concerned and what are we saying, 4-5 years difference in models? For now I'm just going to be content with current black levels as wanting more from year to year only brings on disappointment.

Thanks for the insight. I'm still a little more concerned about how much of a difference there is when it comes to dark scenes between the JVCs and the HW50. I'm not sure if this can be answered though without seeing in person. The HW30 looked good on a black diamond screen but on the HP 2.8 screen sample I tested at BB Magnolia raised the black levels a little too much on an all black screen for my taste(which I know is pickier than most in this area). I'll wait for your further comments when trying your other reference scenes.

Does the added brightness in calibrated 2D mode give the illusion that black levels are about as good? I know that an HP screen raises black levels, however since the picture is so much brighter that black levels still look great and the minimal loss taken on the black floor IMO is worth sacrificing because of the benefits. If a similar effect is seen when moving from an RS45 to an HW50 that is seen when moving from a 1.1 screen to an HP 2.8 screen then to me this would be worth the swap knowing how much better 3D is along with improved FI and color accuracy and brightness.

Maybe I should consider the Epson 5020 as well.

Thanks again Zombie10k!

My comment was only in regards to a coder guys comment on a well known reviewer saying the JVCs black floor couldn't be seen in a darkened room.

Every thing I've read about the Panasonics says their lowest lack level in dark scenes is behind Epson and Sony. That's why I've ruled them out but I am very picky about black levels.

Wondering if the 3LCDs like Epson and Panasonic still susceptible to dust blobs?

No, I have not seen really good 3d. I'm going by a subpar JVC and our local theater. Regardless, I am just not a big fan of 3d. If given the chance of owning either a really good 2d/3d machine or reference quality 2d; I'll take the 2d setup any day.

I concur about recent improvements in pj technology and black level. There have not been any major breakthroughs in BL over the past few years in the JVC lineup. Maybe this has to do with the fact they are content resting on their laurels and spending timing working on other areas to improve, which makes sense. Once again however, I also attribute this to all the R@D being dumped into improving 3d quality more than 2d. If the 3d phase wouldn't have reared it's head, I guarantee we would have seen improvements in this area.

It looks like RC will pick up on low light noise, film grain and minute highlights then try to build structure and detail from it, tweaking the setting will probably afford the best results.


Can you / have you tested with the Monster Vision glasses, I hear they reduce the ghosting to a minimum.

Did you get the projector from Avscience? I am still waiting to hear when these pre-orders will ship.

That depends on your projector, screen, set up source, seating distance. I found 40 about right for my set up but several professionals I know find the limit to be about 20.