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The Coffin Build - Page 14

post #391 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

Very nice!!!

Nice to read about your small get together..............aren't floating floors lovely? If I was a betting man, would go for broke knowing more subs are in your future! wink.gif

Your room is looking great!
post #392 of 631
Thread Starter 
Sub cabs are done with paint! Will now line with Linacoustic RC and stuff rest with acoustic stuffing from parts-express. I have 1/2 roll of Linacoustic RC....so why not use it?






post #393 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

Nice finish. You don't do things half way do you?
Have been following along but sort of lost track of the subwoofer plan.
So your wife is getting an additional seat added so the end table subs are out?
Where are these two beauties going?

Thanks.........my first sub build and it was easy as pie! wink.gif

DIysoundgroup flat packs are great! First cab was a little rough .......had to sand more than I wanted and used quite a bit of filler after first coat of primer. On second cab more clamps made sanding much easier.........matter of fact I hardly sanded at all on second cab.

I've really had a hard time with how/where to implement subs...........thought placing large 18" subs at all mid-lines would give me best response across all seats. My Erskine Group design called for Triad Bronze in-walls subs so wired accordingly. After extensive research in DIY forum, felt it was best to build my own. Expectations are I will receive better performance............saving some coin is a bonus too!

In regard to seating, my wife wanted eight seats from the get go.......I told her I want a money seat ie. a seat that is centered on mid-line of room. After 4-5 months in room she complains about not being in the middle with me.......she wants a love seat!rolleyes.gif

So I've finally given in.........but I'm not putting in a love seat!!!!

Here is where the two subs will go.........






Both subs will be out of sight, out mind. The UXL-18 drivers will match drivers in my JTR S2 very well. My theater is on first floor and has floating floor system.......no need for buttkickers.........tactile feeling is awesome........adding two UXL-18's should be unreal! eek.gifeek.gif
eek.gif
post #394 of 631
Thread Starter 
Have this left over from build and will use to line sidewalls for subs...........have to find out if I can just pull apart Linacousic RC liner and save some coin by not using acoustic stuffing from parts-express. Seems silly to pay for 6-7 pounds of acoustic fill when more than $200 worth of Linacousic RC is lying around and going to waste!

post #395 of 631
Great idea, keep us posted ive got the same left over roll and very similar "empty" boxes!
post #396 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

"Love"-seat is really a misnomer anyway. My wife tries to sell me on all kinds of ideas by injecting the word "Love", but I'm starting to catch on. wink.gif

I hear you on the floating floor's tactile feeling. As always there is contrary opinion (uncontrolled, one note, vibrating diaphragm) but my own limited experience says "Hell ya, I want to FEEL the earthquake under my feet!"

After 28 years of marriage, I've learned to appreciate the opinion of my wife.........or else I'm eating beans for dinner!wink.gif

I designed and engineered my home and have gone to great lengths to isolate and dampen room...........with sand used under screen wall and foundation completely isolated from rest of house though still attached.......the biggest bonus and wow factor has been tactile effects! Having crawl space foundation is the real culprit.wink.gif

You literally bounce in room yet adjacent wall my wife's kitchen cabinets with knick-knacks don't even move! I was a little worried about my wife' 700 lb frig being on adjacent wall.........but was unfounded. What's really weird, my wife's pantry is adjacent to theater wall too and is quietest room in home! Seriously! The other night, my Son was watch Prometheus at reference ie. "0" on 8801, and I could barely hear anything even on UFL scenes in panty!

Proper soundproofing and dampening is the real deal...........




The plate on top of kitchen cabinet is just sitting on edge with nothing supporting it........amazing during heavy ULF in theater it doesn't move or fall considering the other side of wall is theater room.




This is the kitchen side which is adjacent to theater....




Quietest room in home other than theater room. Shut the pantry entrance door while theater is blasting a way......well Cistine Chappell quiet! The other side of wall in pantry is back end of theater room.
Edited by doublewing11 - 1/4/14 at 3:43pm
post #397 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

Impressive. I need to go back through the initial construction phase of your build thread to get the details.
My late night reference level listening involves a good set of headphones. smile.gif

Sadly, I was the WORST about documenting my build in early stages of construction and there are huge time gaps.............my wife had the camera and photographed all pictures. I'll go and download what she has into my computer. I was too busy in room working from sun up to sun down..........and very late in the evening! What I did in 4-5 months others take years to accomplish.

Most will find interesting is how I isolated theater room foundation from rest of house and framing.........worked extremely well.
post #398 of 631
Thread Starter 
Since I have this out from storage,



I decided to fix this......



If you look closely, I did not use Linacoutic RC on screen wall ceiling due to framing screen wall. When Roger Dressler came to visit room he noticed an issue in 300-400 hz range. As soon as he made observation, I knew exactly what the issue was. Well, I've delayed too long since I hate working with insulation!

Here is my long delayed project and will test/verify results.
Boy, Rodger knows his stuff and has a good ear!




Regular regiment of layer RC + 3mm poly+ RC. I will also place absorption on screen wall floor since Serenity Mat is exposed.
post #399 of 631
Thread Starter 
From this:



To this:




Question.........did it make a huge difference and the answer is YES!

That unusually, nasally sound Roger describe is completely gone. If I had known, would have tackled the issue much sooner. Yesterday, Son and a few of his friends watched Pacific Rim and dialogue was so much more crisp and clear......huge difference!
post #400 of 631
Thread Starter 
Next project is preparing for feeding snurf tubes 4-wire 12 gauge speaker wire for rear subs. My columns are removeable and have to drill base of column for Speakon wall inserts. I'll be using Speakon cables due to dependability regarding connections.



post #401 of 631
Thread Starter 
If any expert could verify my thinking is correct, would appreciate the confidence builder! smile.gif

Thinking of using a four pole Speakon wall terminal with 4-wire 12 gauge terminating at column.......I would then send Speakon cables with 4-wire to first sub and have a Speakon wall terminal out to second sub wired in series essentially giving me 4 ohm load to each sub. The plan is to use a Peavey ipr2 7500 which can drive both subs, but at 1100 watts each. Approximately 2200 watts per channel at 4 ohm is available. Both subs would be on one channel until I decide if another pair of subs are needed at mid-line walls. I could easily re-wire subs to give 2200 watts at 4 ohms each on separate channel if two subs are all that's needed.

Is my thinking correct? Or should I be looking at another wiring option?

Thanks........
post #402 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

If any expert could verify my thinking is correct, would appreciate the confidence builder! smile.gif

Thinking of using a four pole Speakon wall terminal with 4-wire 12 gauge terminating at column.......I would then send Speakon cables with 4-wire to first sub and have a Speakon wall terminal out to second sub wired in series essentially giving me 4 ohm load to each sub. The plan is to use a Peavey ipr2 7500 which can drive both subs, but at 1100 watts each. Approximately 2200 watts per channel at 4 ohm is available. Both subs would be on one channel until I decide if another pair of subs are needed at mid-line walls. I could easily re-wire subs to give 2200 watts at 4 ohms each on separate channel if two subs are all that's needed.

Is my thinking correct? Or should I be looking at another wiring option?

Thanks........

To simplify your life and potentially any troubleshooting down the road, I would homerun a 12/2 from each sub location back to your equipment rack. You could then wire in series behind the equipment rack and connect to your amplifier. To get the best connection with the highest energy transfer potential, many will make the series connections using standard electrical wire nuts after twisting the stranded wires together. Not the prettiest, but highly functional.
post #403 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

To simplify your life and potentially any troubleshooting down the road, I would homerun a 12/2 from each sub location back to your equipment rack. You could then wire in series behind the equipment rack and connect to your amplifier. To get the best connection with the highest energy transfer potential, many will make the series connections using standard electrical wire nuts after twisting the stranded wires together. Not the prettiest, but highly functional.


Thanks TMcG!

I have 4 homeruns already at each mid-line to sub--panel in garage...........did this at a time when I thought I'd be using commercial subs. Now doing DIY, won't be using three of the 20 amp circuits at mid-line walls now...........I could use SpeakerPower plate amps but when my wiring was done, those $1200 each plate amps are now $2500..........ie. not cost effective. Have quite the expense going in theater room in June..........so throwing $5000 at two plate amps is not high on agenda, wink.gif

I have four 20 amp and a pair of 15 amp circuits in rack........I could add more homeruns in rack as I still have room in sub-panel. If the two new subs are enough, I'm not holding breath, then the Peavey could have its own dedicated circuit in current rack configuration.......no need for another circuit. Adding more subs as you suggested will definitely require adding more circuits to rack.

I knew from the get go sub arrangement was going to be my biggest obstacle............end of February when drivers arrive will hopefully give a few answers. cool.gif

What do you think of my Speakon wiring in column/s idea? Lucky me, I have snurf tubing in each column to rack!!!!!
post #404 of 631
I was talking the low voltage stranded speaker wire, not anything having to do with the high voltage. Forgive me, but don't these subs require an external amplifier and don't use a plate amplifier? That means you only need to send a speaker wire to the sub location. The amps - whether rack-mount or your existing plate amp - could be used in the equipment rack. Or is your contention that you don't have the spare dedicated receptacles required for the power amplifiers in your equipment rack location? Sorry, but I am a bit confused with what you prewired for and where....and how this affects your current considerations.
post #405 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I was talking the low voltage stranded speaker wire, not anything having to do with the high voltage. Forgive me, but don't these subs require an external amplifier and don't use a plate amplifier? That means you only need to send a speaker wire to the sub location. The amps - whether rack-mount or your existing plate amp - could be used in the equipment rack. Or is your contention that you don't have the spare dedicated receptacles required for the power amplifiers in your equipment rack location? Sorry, but I am a bit confused with what you prewired for and where....and how this affects your current considerations.

Sorry, when I read 12/2 figured you were referring to wiring 20 amp circuits........ie. high voltage......think the confusion lies there.

BTW, makes perfect sense now wiring in series at rack, (smacking forehead) redface.gif
Edited by doublewing11 - 1/10/14 at 7:08pm
post #406 of 631
Thread Starter 
Have final number on building subs and below is my cost breakdown. Depending on driver selection along with amplification, very easy to spend less as those are two major expenses. Obviously building your own subs will be more cost effective than purchasing commercial and hopefully, will achieve better performance.......though jury is still out on that one. Project should be done in middle of February which is anticipated delivery for UM drivers.

I decided to go DIY to acquire skills in understanding the science behind theater sound and develop a hobby in my retirements years.......I'm most definitely a tinkerer!

I have not included DSP expense since my intent is to purchase Trinnov TEQ-12 this Spring but may look at MiniDSP for hold over until June. I had all but sent in a check for MiniDSP 10X10 but after further research felt system was limited.

Cost Breakdown:

$482 Two Ultimax 18 inch drivers- have two more UM-18 drivers that need cabs built
$650 Two channel 2022 watts X 2 in 4 ohm or 3750 watts X 2 @ 2 ohm pro amp
$334 Two Diysoundgroup cabs includes shipping
$34 16 oz + 8 oz Tite bond II glue, rollers, primer
$24 Two cans Rustoleum flat black paint, two cans Rustoleum truck bed liner black
$118 100ft 4-wire 12 gauge, two 15 ft Speakon cables, 4 Speakon wall connects, 4 Speakon ends

$1642 Grand Total

You could easily lower amount by $450 by using Parts Express 18 inch HO Reference driver and Behringer inuke 3000/6000

Because I'm attempting to equal or improve performance comparable to my JTR S2, I've incurred additional cost. The goal is to reach significant output levels below 12 hz and UM drivers with 2200 watts per pair will have enough power to do so. Much of amp wattage will be used to reach close to max excursion and will need significant boost below 20 hz do so. Expectations are not to stress drivers but to have significant headroom for max bursts.

Hope this helps fellow AVS members contemplating DIY. In reality it has been easy so far and has been quite enjoyable........but the hard work to integrate is still forthcoming. Please keep in mind this sub build performance level should be on par or better than my $3000 JTR S2........biggrin.gif
Edited by doublewing11 - 1/14/14 at 8:15pm
post #407 of 631
Thread Starter 
Yeah.........call me fickle, capricious, unsteady.........................but based on the following, once again I changed my mind and have edited above post to represent change. Because of following information:





The green graph represents four UM-18's being fed 1200 watts each..............the lower blue graph is a pair of UXL-18's being fed 1850 watts each. A fellow AVS member modeled both drivers and has had me thinking back and forth for two weeks. I've had 4 UM-18's pre-ordered and joined the UXL-18 group buy figuring I'd cancel my Parts-Express order. After several pm's with various members......................I'm now committed to my Parts-express pre-order. AS graph shows, 4 UM-18's have significant higher output across all frequencies (3-4 db's) and with drivers readily available after February 14th with 5 year warranty, I just felt this was prudent direction to take.

Selecting sub drivers has been absolutely the HARDEST part of my theater build................nothing else compares. My back and forth thinking makes me believe I'm getting more in touch with my feminine side especially in my old age!! smile.gif


Here is a photo of the Ultimax 18-22 at CES.....................


post #408 of 631
What amp?
post #409 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

What amp?

Hi Fred................how was my ancestral homeland visit? Any stops in Berlin? We could have crossed paths.................................biggrin.gif


I'll be using a Peavey ipr2 7500 to drive the four Ultimax 18's....................as soon as drivers arrive, they should be up and running that day! Will be interesting if my vacillating ways have been successfull!!!
post #410 of 631
I had a grand ol' time in Deutschland - right up until we couldn't get on a flight out. We mostly hung out in Munich, and then made a brief stop in Frankfurt.

I ask about the amp because I'm shopping myself (planning EP4000 x 2 for my four subs). The UM is 2x2Ohm (4 in series), and it looks like the UXL is 4Ohm as well. If you drive one on each channel of the peavey, you get 2KW per enclosure, right?

That's more power than I'll be able to push into my UM-15s (also 4Ohm) for similar money, but I'll have four total channels of amp - for more flexibility. I'm just trying to get a handle on some other options - can you confirm how you plan to wire and amp them?
post #411 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

I had a grand ol' time in Deutschland - right up until we couldn't get on a flight out. We mostly hung out in Munich, and then made a brief stop in Frankfurt.

I ask about the amp because I'm shopping myself (planning EP4000 x 2 for my four subs). The UM is 2x2Ohm (4 in series), and it looks like the UXL is 4Ohm as well. If you drive one on each channel of the peavey, you get 2KW per enclosure, right?

That's more power than I'll be able to push into my UM-15s (also 4Ohm) for similar money, but I'll have four total channels of amp - for more flexibility. I'm just trying to get a handle on some other options - can you confirm how you plan to wire and amp them?

Missed Berlin? Best part of Deutschland!!!!!! Sorry to hear about flight issues............my biggest worry while overseas!

Yes, the Peavey is actually 2000 watts per channel @ 4 ohm load..........................3700 watt X 2 @ 2 ohms.............quite the power beast all in a 20 amp circuit.

My plan was to use 2 drivers per channel in series......but can be wired in parallel too................figured I'd wire to Speakon wall plate using 4 conductor 12 gauge wire but due to 40+ ft run may require 10 gauge wire which has been hard to locate. TMcG had a good idea of running individual wire to each sub and either wire in series or parallel at amp. Makes sense..........

Was thinking about Speakon into sub, then Speakon out to next sub since two will be in back............................I'm still up in the air about wiring. Having dual voice coils does give options. Still thinking about that one. For now, I will have two UM-18 on their own channel until I can build boxes for the other two drivers. 2000 watts is definitely too much for one UM-18. At the price I paid for the Peavey, more cost effective and more power than two EP4000.
post #412 of 631
Good choice on the Dayton's. biggrin.gif
post #413 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnu008 View Post

Good choice on the Dayton's. biggrin.gif

Thanks...................

Hopefully, I didn't tick off too many people by bailing on the UXL group buy!!! eek.gif

Congrats on a great season..............Auburn came a long way! With Kid Kiffin at 'Bama.................hope is alive!!! wink.gif
post #414 of 631
Thread Starter 
Peavey ipr2 7500

2 channel amp with 2022 watts per channel in 4 ohms and 3750 watts per channel in 2 ohms...................should suffice driving 4 Ultimax 18 drivers.............biggrin.gif





post #415 of 631
Four UXL-18's with two of those IPR2-7500's powering them would been really bada$$!

I'm sure the UM18's will be really nice too though.
post #416 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Four UXL-18's with two of those IPR2-7500's powering them would been really bada$$!

I'm sure the UM18's will be really nice too though.

I would tend to agree..........but bad arse days are behind me............some may say too many blows to head! biggrin.gif

We shall see, hoping UM's are capable but until measured data still needs verified............who knows. BTW, watching your build progress with the UXL's.
post #417 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

I would tend to agree..........but bad arse days are behind me............some may say too many blows to head! biggrin.gif

We shall see, hoping UM's are capable but until measured data still needs verified............who knows. BTW, watching your build progress with the UXL's.

I'm sure they will be more then capable, honestly I probably would have jumped on the UM18-22's too if the group buy wasn't going on. But because iST Ltd is in Canada I don't have to pay the taxes on the drivers like I would of had to buying UM18's from PE and bringing them across the border. After exchange and taxes a UM18-22 would have cost me around $350per driver where as the UXL-18's are only costing me $60 more roughly. So for me I'd rather spend the extra $240+ and go with the UXL-18's.

I'll get started on my build after Super Bowl, keep an eye for updates and pics. Your theater room rocks by the way! Very nice job smile.gif
post #418 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I'm sure they will be more then capable, honestly I probably would have jumped on the UM18-22's too if the group buy wasn't going on. But because iST Ltd is in Canada I don't have to pay the taxes on the drivers like I would of had to buying UM18's from PE and bringing them across the border. After exchange and taxes a UM18-22 would have cost me around $350per driver where as the UXL-18's are only costing me $60 more roughly. So for me I'd rather spend the extra $240+ and go with the UXL-18's.

I'll get started on my build after Super Bowl, keep an eye for updates and pics. Your theater room rocks by the way! Very nice job smile.gif

Aren't essential tariffs a bugger.........................it seems anytime goods cross borders, governments have their hand in til taking advantage of us poor consumers! On this side of the line, I have to pay the same taxes for the UXL's and visa versa for you with the UM's. Seems purchasing goods from our own respective country is best for both of us.

IMHO, I felt four UXL's would have been too much.............so I figured two would be enough when I signed up for group buy. After conversations, I thought "what if" I needed more drivers? Getting UXL's could be problematic .................and what if I had driver issues after a year or two? With the UXL's have just one year warranty, felt more comfortable going with a driver which had a 5 year no questions asked warranty and was readily available. We shall soon see if the UM's are worthy............BTW, performance shouldn't be too far off the UXL's...............maybe 2-3 db's.

I think in my unique situation, one S2 works my room over quite well due to floating floor system on TJI joist system..............I don't have to have additional drivers to work the ULF effect like those on solid concrete foundations. I find it amusing I almost purchased buttkickers which would have been a waste! I'm already receiving tactile effects galore, yet with four more UM's in the equation, I could be going overboard!!! eek.gif We will obviously see soon....................

My design and room engineering will soon be given a realistic test!!! biggrin.gif


BTW, thanks for the complements on the room! Yours should be great soon with 4 UXL's! eek.gifeek.gif
post #419 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

.... I felt four UXL's would have been too much.............

BLASPHEMY!!!

I want you to read Popalock's Sub Build and think about what you just said, mister!!
post #420 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

BLASPHEMY!!!

I want you to read Popalock's Sub Build and think about what you just said, mister!!

Ok..........ok..............ok.................

Remember, I'm close to retirement and entering realm of "Depends" usage. All I need is IBS everytime I crank bass up to abnormal levels......................I'm quite knowledgeable about testosterone lending itself to increasing amp gain! biggrin.gif

Just noting, my wife already thinks I'm insane for building four more subs...............she might have me committed if I ever attempt what Popalock has done!!!!! cool.gif
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