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Q - BenQ W7000 or Epson 3020 -- Which direction should I go?

post #1 of 74
Thread Starter 
Let me preface everything by giving you a bit of a backstory.

-- I've been really interested in picking up a projector for the past few years. However, over about the past two weeks I've finally made the financial movements necessary to pick one up. I have been relentlessly trolling these forums in that past two weeks, whenever I have spare time(which seems like never haha). Anyways, I'm NOWHERE near as knowledgeable about this field as I'm sure the majority of you guys are. The quality of information that is listed on these forums is seriously second to none, in my opinion. I've learned more about projectors in a few well written threads than I have picked up randomly over the past few years.

Anyways, on to my question for you guys; if you would have it.

I'm looking for a projector with fantastic 2D performance, as well as one with the least amount of ghosting/crosstalk as possible in 3D. My budget is around $1700 at the moment.
I want something that puts out the best 3D image possible for the price that I am working with, but that isn't slacking in the 2D field at all.

I'm working with, depending on the way I set up my living room, either ~16-18 feet, or anywhere up to ~25 feet. I'm in a larger apartment; and when I will have this thing on, no lights will be on whatsoever. A screen is a purchase that will be made within a few weeks following the projector.


Now, the majority of talk I've seen about the W7000 has only given it praise. The 3020 is new though, and according to projectorcentral, the crosstalk has been significantly cut. I'm seriously looking for as minimal as possible crosstalk though.

I can pick up a factory refurb W7000 for around $1700, where as I can pick up a new 3020 with two pairs of glasses for $1549. The bulb life is superior on the epson, as well as the warranty. But I don't want to take a longer warranty projector just because of that, and lose out on 3D clarity.


I'm coming to you guys, the most knowledgeable people gathered on a forum discussing home theater that I have ever seen; to see if you can help me decide which direction to take. I'm basing your help on one of the purchases I've looked forward to making for so long.

I'll end with giving thanks in advance for any opinions/knowledge shared with me. I sincerely appreciate it, and I really do mean that.

Thanks a bunch!

- Bruce.


**Edit -- I should also add, that my choices aren't specifically limited to these two projectors. I looked at the HD33 for a while, but the price jump to the W7000 isn't that great, at the moment. I wish I could have found that when it was on sale a few months ago. : (
post #2 of 74
I'm not very experienced either, this being my first projector purchase, but I'm in a similar situation as you.

I started my search a few months ago, with the Optoma HD33. Then the Epson 3010, but steered clear of that due to the issues you mentioned, above average crosstalk and ghosting, etc.

Then I considered bailing on 3D all together, because maybe its not ready for primetime, and looked at the 8350 and even a refurb 8700ub for awesome black levels.

However, even those projectors have some issues, with bulb failure etc.

After reviewing the stellar new review of the 3020, which states that crosstalk is almost non-existent, and the 3020 is overall a very strong performer, I wound up ordering from Visual Apex yesterday.

Granted the 3020 doesn't have superb contrast and black levels, but lts be honest here, we are spending $1500 or so on a projector and that is really entry level....so something has to give.

I saw the 3010 in my local dealer a number of times and was reasonably impressed.....not perfect but again nothing is at this price point.

It also seems to me, reviewing these threads etc that projectors don't seem quite as reliable as TVs, no matter which brand.

Also have heard less than stellar things about Optoma and Benq's customer service....

Adding it all up led me to Epson.....I think its probably fair to say the Benq might have a slightly better picture than the Epson 3020.....but Epson is much improved and has much better warranty/service.

The 3020 is probably now better than HD33, since the 3010's real weakness was 3d which is fixed.
post #3 of 74
The W7000 gives me an eye pressure feeling, it's hard to explain. It's almost a sort of eye fatigue or strain that, just a guess on my part, I think might be attributed to the colour wheel??? I don't experience the same eye fatigue while watching my 8350 or 8500Ub.

With that being said I really do prefer the look of a DLP over a 3LCD. The image is really sharp and being a DLP, it has a really smooth look to motion so sports (any motion) look a lot better on the BenQ.

The BenQ is a pretty noisy unit. The iris has a high pitched screech to it, actually pretty annoying but I love the image it fires onto my screen.

As you have read, 3D is top notch when it comes to crosstalk, ghosting etc. It could use a bit more brightness.

I've had two bulb failures and one iris failure with my Epson's but their customer service is really good so all my issues were covered under warranty and was a hassle free conversation each time I called. I haven't had the BenQ long enough to have to deal with their customer service but they'll have a tuff time matching up to Epson's, I'm just hoping they can.

If I had to choose just one of my projectors? I would pick the W7000. Maybe just because it's new and different????

Hope my experience helps.
Edited by Crabalocker - 10/23/12 at 8:37am
post #4 of 74
It sounds like you want fantastic 3D. In that case, DLP trumps all for home theater. I have an HD3300 and it doesn't have "minimal ghosting" or "almost non-existent ghosting". It has NONE at all. The image is so sharp and the "pop" you get is fantastic. You will never have to worry about dust blobs getting onto your lcd panels, you won't have to clean dust filters (DLP has a sealed light path), etc. You can buy DLP link glasses for cheap as chips if you know where to look also. The Epson will be brighter for 3d, but I'm projecting my HD3300 onto a 143" screen and it's plenty bright (you have full light control, so that's good). That said, I had a Benq W5000 and it crapped out after 2 years and I had a bad experience with their customer service. They essentially told me in not so many words that it would cost an exorbitant amount of money to fix and that it would be better to just get a new projector. Have you considered the Acer 9500BD? The HD33 is great, but it has limited flexibility in terms of placement (I really missed my lens shift from my W5000). Hope that helps.

One thing to note...not all glasses are alike. I have a pair of Optoma ZD201 DLP glasses and they are much, much better than the cheapies I own. They other ones are fine, and good for guests, but if you want the best out of your projector, the ZD201s are the best. Of course, this is IMHO, and you will get naysayers, but meh.
post #5 of 74
The HD3300 isn't cheap, and based upon reviews here I don't think Optoma's customer service is great.

I agree DLP and LCD offer much different experiences. I demo'd a 3020 at my dealer in Farmington Hills (Paulson's A/V) and did not notice ANY ghosting/cross talk.

The only way to answer these questions is to view each projector with your own eyes and select on that.
post #6 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

It sounds like you want fantastic 3D. In that case, DLP trumps all for home theater. I have an HD3300 and it doesn't have "minimal ghosting" or "almost non-existent ghosting". It has NONE at all. The image is so sharp and the "pop" you get is fantastic. You will never have to worry about dust blobs getting onto your lcd panels, you won't have to clean dust filters (DLP has a sealed light path), etc. You can buy DLP link glasses for cheap as chips if you know where to look also. The Epson will be brighter for 3d, but I'm projecting my HD3300 onto a 143" screen and it's plenty bright (you have full light control, so that's good). That said, I had a Benq W5000 and it crapped out after 2 years and I had a bad experience with their customer service. They essentially told me in not so many words that it would cost an exorbitant amount of money to fix and that it would be better to just get a new projector. Have you considered the Acer 9500BD? The HD33 is great, but it has limited flexibility in terms of placement (I really missed my lens shift from my W5000). Hope that helps.
One thing to note...not all glasses are alike. I have a pair of Optoma ZD201 DLP glasses and they are much, much better than the cheapies I own. They other ones are fine, and good for guests, but if you want the best out of your projector, the ZD201s are the best. Of course, this is IMHO, and you will get naysayers, but meh.

I would agree with most of your points. The HD3300 has no ghosting at all, no dust blobs, and has worked completely troublefree for me for over a year.
I do think the Ultraclear glasses are pretty much as good as the Optoma ones, and quite a bit cheaper....
post #7 of 74
I would go with a DLP as well, either the Optoma hd33/3300 or Benq w7000 for 3D, or wait for the Mits hc8000 coming out very soon (although more expensive).
That said, DLP produces more eye strain but both the hd33/3000 and Benq w7000 had 6x RBE modes.

The main problem some of you may be having with eye-strain is because these DLP's are just way too bright for 2D, get you an ND filter.
post #8 of 74
Quote:
The HD3300 isn't cheap, and based upon reviews here I don't think Optoma's customer service is great.

Doesn't matter. The HD33 is significantly less expensive, only slightly less bright and with only a one year warranty. Lack of ghosting will be the same.
Quote:
I do think the Ultraclear glasses are pretty much as good as the Optoma ones, and quite a bit cheaper....

I hereby respectfully disagree. The Optomas are definitely better in terms of colour representation in 3D as well as the fact that I have, on rare, rare occasion, noticed what some would classify as ghosting on the ultraclears. I have yet to find that on my Optomas, so it is a function of the glasses vs the DLP technology. Now, are they $60 better? It depends on how picky you are. They are $60 better to me because I watch a lot of 3D. The ultraclears look great to my guests, though, so...

I may test out my photography skills and see if I can take a few pictures comparing the two. At any rate, you can't go wrong with either. If money is tight, go with the ultraclears - they are still a good product.
post #9 of 74
I sure hope the OP doesn't notice rainbows, I agree dlp offers more pop but I ordered an hd33 and had to pay restocking fee because of the rainbows and my headaches

Also be careful with placement on the hd33 it is pretty unforgiving and I didn't like how the image starts about 8 inches down from center of lens when ceiling mounted

You should go demo an Optoma, oh wait, you can't because there is no dealer network

Who currently sells the hd3300 and how much is it?
post #10 of 74
Hey Coderguy, any chance that you will be putting the specs of the 3020 up on your projector calculator?
post #11 of 74
AVS sells the HD3300. Just call and they will give a good price, substantially less than MSRP. It at least they quoted me a great price last November,
post #12 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

.
The main problem some of you may be having with eye-strain is because these DLP's are just way too bright for 2D, get you an ND filter.

It's true, the BenQ is a light canon even when lighting up my 153" screen. I tried watching in normal lamp mode but had to put it into economy mode to save my eye balls from burning out. It is bright! but I still think some of the eye fatigue has to do with the colour wheel. IMHO.
post #13 of 74
Thread Starter 
Hey everyone, thanks for the comments and opinions!

I just got back from the office; and I'm so pumped to see a multitude of posts in the thread. You guys are seriously really helpful! : )

I'm really pooped, so I'm not going to multiquote every comment so far, but hopefully I can touch on most of them.

To start, -- I've really only heard great things about Epson's customer service; while the talk on the BenQ side isn't as.. positive, though, the talk seems to be much less existent.

I've watched 3d content through a DLP projector before, over the course of a longer weekend, and I didn't notice any of the 'feared' RBE, so I don't think that will be an issue. At least I would hope. : )

The guy I would be purchasing the projector from does home theater installations in the town next to mine. He says he has worked with all of the projectors, though not extensively in 3d. He doesn't have any floor models that I can come and test out though, which is what I SERIOUSLY wanted to do. Outside of that, I really don't have too many options for checking stuff out. I live in Omaha, Nebraska haha.

Anyways, I really appreciate the posts that everyone has made in the thread! EVERY opinion in here is helping me make my decision, which I was hoping to make by early tomorrow, but we will see how that goes. Every post/opinion is welcome!

Thanks!

-Bruce
post #14 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV Maniac View Post

Hey Coderguy, any chance that you will be putting the specs of the 3020 up on your projector calculator?

Eventually, just a bit pinned down at work, haven't even been posting in the forum as much lately either.
post #15 of 74
Just watched about 2 hours of television and an hour of gaming, I really really love the DLP look!!!!
post #16 of 74
Thread Starter 
I'm looking at $1549 for a new Epson 3020 with two glasses, or I think actually like $1789 for a factory refurb W7000, and I'd need to add in money to spend on two pairs of glasses. So probably around a $4-500 difference, for about the same setup.


I'm forgetting his forum username, but I remember reading a thread where someone posted crazy information as well as pictures in a projector mashup, with I think like the HW30, the W7000, the 5010 and a few others. That thread was absolutely fantastic! The guy who put that stuff together is seriously the man. If I could see a comparison like that for the W7000 and the 3020; I'd honestly pay money. That would seriously make this decision so much easier.


Edit: I was also just told that if I pick up the 3020 and want to change to the W7000, then it will be a 15% restocking fee, not including the price shift between the two. So pre-tax, rough estimate of around $225 if I go with the 3020 and the ghosting is unacceptable to my standards.
post #17 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Clark View Post

I would agree with most of your points. The HD3300 has no ghosting at all, no dust blobs, and has worked completely troublefree for me for over a year.
I do think the Ultraclear glasses are pretty much as good as the Optoma ones, and quite a bit cheaper....

Well, if you check the 3020 thread here, and the review at Projector Central, users are able to completely eliminate ANY crosstalk at all, by simply dialing in the 3d setting a bit.

The 3020 has various options for 3d setting, including different levels of brightness and depth.

Thus, its not fair to say the 3020 still suffers from crosstalk, because it doesn't have any if calibrated/adjusted properly.

Still, the 3020 will offer a much different picture than a 3300, and this is where a preference comes in....do you like a more film like, slightly softer and less punchy LCD type image or more razor sharp, popping colors that DLP offers?

I wish it were so simple to say, why would anyone choose LCD over DLP based on that description, of course I want sharper, more pop....but its interesting to me that lots of people here complain of fatigue from super bright, sharp DLPs.

Either way, there are lots of good choices, the 3020, the HD33, the HD3300, BENQW7000....which is good for the consumer...
post #18 of 74
Quote:
users are able to completely eliminate ANY crosstalk at all, by simply dialing in the 3d setting a bit.

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here. To reduce crosstalk I'm guessing that Epson users will have to make it less bright (not desirable, seeing as bright 3D is one of the main selling features of the Epson) and tone down the 3D depth (also not desirable, as most are wanting to INCREASE the depth of 3D). LCD still has a ways to go before it can match DLP in 3D, but there is that chance that a person is susceptible to rainbows (which, in 3D a person is much less likely to be susceptible to it). Personally, I'd take the risk of having to send it back, but that's just me.
post #19 of 74
The 3020 is rated at 2300 lumens and actually tested higher at 2390 so brightness is not a problem

It's one of the brightest 3d projectors on the market at any price, not sure how you can argue its dim. I viewed it in many settings at my dealer and on a 120" screen it has lumens to spare even in Eco mode with 3d brightness at low

Depth control didn't affect crosstalk at all

I respect the Optoma projectors and think they are solid

Not sure why but you seem to have an axe to grind with LCD and Epson

It's hard to ignore the 3020 as a good option with great service, warranty and two pair of rf glasses for $1519.
post #20 of 74
Big man...where did u see epson 3020 for $1519...I'm in...best bang for buck now that crosstalk issue has been fixed...can't wait
post #21 of 74
I would say the this battle between dlp and LCD 3d projector never seems to end...I tested the hd33...I thought it was too dim for my liking...and the reviews of it suggests that the lumens were less than stated by optoma...whereas the epsons are brighter than stated in the specs. I think too often these forums turn into people trying to justify their purchase.bigman..I'm with you. I don't think there is any question what projector to get after pc review....bill ripped the epson 3010 a new one and favored the hd 33...that advantage seems to be over now with the 3020 and given his review my mind is made up...plus there is no equal to epson warranty.brightness plus very limited crosstalk equals win.
post #22 of 74
Quote:
The 3020 is rated at 2300 lumens and actually tested higher at 2390 so brightness is not a problem

It's one of the brightest 3d projectors on the market at any price, not sure how you can argue its dim. I viewed it in many settings at my dealer and on a 120" screen it has lumens to spare even in Eco mode with 3d brightness at low

Depth control didn't affect crosstalk at all

I respect the Optoma projectors and think they are solid

Not sure why but you seem to have an axe to grind with LCD and Epson

It's hard to ignore the 3020 as a good option with great service, warranty and two pair of rf glasses for $1519.

Reading comprehension, please. I didn't say it was dim. I said that in order to reduce crosstalk users apparently have to reduce the brightness, which is a negative. After that is said and done, it still may be brighter than the W7000 in full bright mode, I don't know. I haven't tested them. Now, I have no problem with Epson whatsoever. I hear good things about them and if I were to go with LCD as a technology, that is most assuredly the company I'd go with. However, I am lazy and I tend to have a bit of a beef with LCD in terms of potential convergence issues (which I have read a lot about), dust blobs, filters, etc. None of which are a problem with DLP technology. Again, rainbows are a potential issue, but I'm fortunate to not have that problem so for me DLP is the winner. I will say, though, that Epson's deal right now is pretty smokin' so if I didn't have my current slant towards DLP I would probably choose Epson.
post #23 of 74
Thread Starter 
I'm going to wait until Friday to make a decision; but with the reviews so far, I think I'm going to go with the Epson. I really hope that things still seem sharp, because I'd hate to have to return it and pay a restocking fee.

If crosstalk can be practically completely eliminated with the proper adjustments, then it seems like the 3020 is a pretty solid deal at the moment. At the same time though, I'm not going to lie, I feel like I know what I would get with a W7000, where as the 3020 is still extremely new, and I'm not 100% about the quality I would get. The PC review was very solid, but I've seen people here hit those reviews pretty hard for being inaccurate.

I wish I just had a definitive answer on the route I should take, with clear cut facts of what makes which a better projector. That would make things so much easier haha.
post #24 of 74
Quote:
I wish I just had a definitive answer on the route I should take, with clear cut facts of what makes which a better projector. That would make things so much easier haha.

Hahaha. This is what's so fun about this hobby - the decision should be a difficult one. But because it's so difficult, what that usually means is that whatever route you take, you are going to have a great projector. Plain and simple. Best of luck with your decision. smile.gif
post #25 of 74
Thread Starter 
^^ Thanks Blaster! : )

Honestly, I think at the moment I'm leaning towards the 3020. It comes with glasses and a solid warranty, and its the newest thing on the block. Hopefully the quality will be up to my standards. If not, I'll bite the bullet and pay the restocking fee to jump up to the W7000, though I hope I don't need too.

Regardless, the more opinions and knowledge, the better. I'm 100% open to hearing what anyone has to say! : )

Thanks again to anyone that has contributed to the thread, I really appreciate all the input I have gotten so far!
post #26 of 74
Thread Starter 
--sorry about that, accidental double post.
post #27 of 74
Thread Starter 
Holy bajoles triple post -- new question though...


Would it be worth it to eat the bullet and wait, and save up for say, a 5010? I'm sure the question is purely opinionated, but thought I might as well through it out there.
post #28 of 74
If it were me, I would wait and get the 5020 if going the Epson route if that's an option. I have the 8350 and 8500Ub now and the quality the deep blacks produced from the 8500Ub over the 8350 are well worth it, IMHO. I'm also thinking of getting the 5020 for my movie projector and using the BenQ for 3D, regular TV and video games.
post #29 of 74
Thread Starter 
Well shoot, you are using the BenQ for 3D? Have you seen a 3020 in action?
post #30 of 74
I have not seen the 3020 in action but if the 5020 is an option in your budget and you're sold on the Epson, the 5020 should be better in almost every category vs the 3020.

I thought the 8350 was every bit as good as my 8500Ub after doing quick back and forth comparisons. During the tests it seemed like there was only a slight difference, but not really that big of a difference between the two. It was only after watching the 8350 for about 6 weeks straight and then going back to the 8500Ub that I truly appreciated the blacks the 8500Ub can produce and how important (for me) deep blacks are needed in the cinematic experience. There really is a big difference in blacks with the better Epson's.

Who knows, maybe when I get my 5020 I might like its 3D over the W7000. If that's the case, great! I'll still use the BenQ for gaming and HDTV.

Modern projectors are absolutely awesome. You can't really go wrong with whatever choice you decide.

Vision, like sounds, smells and tastes are very subjective and personal. I'm sure you'll be extremely satisfied with what ever choice you go with.

Good luck!
Edited by Crabalocker - 10/24/12 at 11:29pm
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