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post #31 of 63
11/2/12 at 12:56pm
seegs108, that's quite a list of projectors. Did you buy them all new and re-sell them? That is a lot of expense.. You could probably have bought sony 4k with the money you lost on the 14 deals? smile.gif
If you are still in the reviewing mood and if you dont mind buying a used projectors, you should consder a sony qualia 004 also.
I have not owned as many projectors as you have.. I saw a few.. but I still find the sony qualia 004 to be most preferrable to me.. The Lumis Sim2 is another nice projector.
Just my personal observation and preference: The $25,000 projectors (such as the sony qualia 004, the sim2 etc) have, typically, very expensive (high quality) optics/lens system. I have seen a couple of the "new" high contrast JVC projectors (under $10,000).
I find that my sony is more desirable - perhaps just a personal preference. I find the sharpness of the picture offered by the $6000 lens of qulia 004, supercedes the lower contrast numbers, as compared to the Jvc RS20 etc. I am not a fan of JVC. I recommended the RS20 to a friend and i find its picture to be unacceptable - it is dark, yes.. but not very sharp or "film like". I find the single chip DLP to be more sharp and something like epson 8350 to be excellent, for the price. I am speculating that the 3 chip lcos projectors have convergence issues also..
Since you seem to enjoy trying out projectors, I would encourage you to consider a used sony qualia 004. Actually, I liked it so much that I bought an extra unit, in the used market (no, I am not selling it). My next purchase will be a sony 4k with LED lamp. My qualia lamp is $800/$900 and lasts only 1500 hours even in low setting. Thats the main disadvantage but it is well worth it, in my opinion..

PS: I don't mean to offend anyone who own the latest generation projectors.. Preceding is just my preference and observation..
Edited by audvid - 11/2/12 at 1:04pm
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post #32 of 63
11/2/12 at 1:30pm
Thread Starter 
Every unit with the exception of the Mitsubishi HC7800D was purchased used or B-stock. I've actually made money on all but two when it came time to sell them off. I lost about $1000 when selling the Mitsubishi and around $100 when selling the Epson 8100. Other then that I've made anywhere from $100 to $500 on top of what I've paid for on all the projectors I've since sold after trying them out. I'm a real deal hunter. Being 23 forces you to be. tongue.gif

I completely agree with higher end units. While they may be expensive, there is a reason for that. The reason I've kept the Marantz and the Planar has to do with their higher end optics. I find that once you hit a certain black level there is so much more that should be considered when purchasing a projector. Perceived sharpness is at the top of the list for me. I don't see how much better it can get after the Marantz without spending some big bucks. Unfortunately that will have to wait until I buy a house with a proper room to use all this equipment in. At the moment I have a dedicated space, but its in small spare bedroom that I can't alter too much.

You can't make fun of the lower priced JVCs. I can understand the mid and their higher end units. For what most people spend on a new lower end JVC there is very little out there that matches the picture quality. The one thing they need to get right is motion and they'll be set for PQ in the under $5000 msrp price bracket. After that gets resolved I don't think you could ask for more out of a unit in that price range. You mentioned convergence issues with the JVCs. My X3 has essentially perfect convergence out of the box from corner to corner. I posted a picture of it in one of the threads. They also use the same lens for all their units. So you do get a higher quality lens when compared to other units in the under $3-$5000 range. I used to be like you and hate on the JVC units. The RS20 I used to have was the reason. While black levels were amazing it was seriously lacking in other areas. The X3 has rectified on every single issue. Motion is better but no where near Sony's LCOS panels from what I've read. I really want to check out a Sony projector and see for myself.

I don't think I could own a qualia 004 for long. I wouldn't want to make that much of an investment in a spare lamp, especially when you consider how short they actually last. I, too, will eventually purchase a Sony 1000ES. Probably not for a number of years when a decently priced used unit goes on sale or if I hit the lottery. biggrin.gif
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post #33 of 63
11/3/12 at 1:05pm
seegs108, at 23, you seem to have gained a lot of knowledge and seem to have acquired discriminating tastes.. Good for you..
I have not seen the X3. I had recommended the JVC RS20 to a friend, overseas, as soon as it came out. After about a year, I visited him and was unpleasantly surprised.. that it was such a horrible projector.. I had recommended it, mostly based on avsforum comments.. It was so new that I didn't get to see it.. He spent a lot of money.. a lot more than list price to acquire it.. I am very unhappy that I fell for the hype that some made on this forum, when it first came out.. At that time, I had a 9" CRT and everyone said that finally, the RS 20 beats/meets CRT quality.. I was excited.. and suggested the RS20. mad.gif

Once I got my Sony Qualia 004, I realized.. that most of those people didn't know what a good picture should look like! I prefer my qualia 004 to my 9" CRT.. not even close.. the qualia is much superior.. yes, of course the CRT has excellent black levels.. May be its just me.. but I think the sharpness of a very high quality lens by the likes of Nikon or Leica is a very visible superiority of the Qualia and such expensive projectors..
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post #34 of 63
11/3/12 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audvid View Post

I had recommended the JVC RS20 to a friend, overseas, as soon as it came out. After about a year, I visited him and was unpleasantly surprised.. that it was such a horrible projector..

It's silly to call the RS20 a "horrible projector." It was a benchmark in many ways when it came out and is still fantastic. The people who loved it included a great many experienced AV buffs as well as many of the most respected technical writers and professional calibrators, who regularly saw the rest of the projector playing field. Not caring for it over your projector is fine, but the "such a horrible projector" description isn't credible at all.
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post #35 of 63
11/3/12 at 1:26pm
whoa buying so many projectors and I though I was obsessed are you ever satisfied?
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post #36 of 63
11/3/12 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

It's silly to call the RS20 a "horrible projector." It was a benchmark in many ways when it came out and is still fantastic. The people who loved it included a great many experienced AV buffs as well as many of the most respected technical writers and professional calibrators, who regularly saw the rest of the projector playing field. Not caring for it over your projector is fine, but the "such a horrible projector" description isn't credible at all.
Actually, I disliked the RS20, even before I bought my Sony. It was based on the comments of the "experts", that I suggested the RS20 - it was considered to be the first real challenge to my 9" CRT, because of the contrast ratio etc., I guess.. Certainly, I am no expert in Video and don't claim to be. I am not against JVC, the company either. I bought the first JVC G10 DILA - as soon as it came out in 90s - list was around $18,000 for it.. and it served the purpose for its time. And yes, I had william phelps fly in from CA to calibrate the JVC and my CRT.. He was considered THE expert at that time..
Sure.. I am a less experienced user, as compared to the experts who reviewed the RS20... but I do standby my comment.. and also, I am unbiased - as opposed to the magazines.. it was horrible (for its price point and its HYPE at that time!).. I feel very bad myself, because my friend trusted my judgement.. he is very polite and even he said.. " how come this is not very sharp - like the Sony (I don't know which model he was referring to!)". Silly or not, I do think the RS20 was over hyped.. Granted, the new gen JVCs might be better but I did see one of the new ones.. I forge the model.. its the one with eShift.. I don't mean to offend anyone.. but I must say that I am unimpressed with that model also.. Yes, it might have certain advantages - but none that I seem to appreciate.. Perhaps its just me..

BTW, I don't berate all low end projectors. I do own an Epson 8350 and an old Sony hs50. They both seem very good projectors - for their price point (sony I bought used) - on a 70" wide inexpensive screen.

I did audition the Lumis Sim2 on my screen (150" wide, Steward 1.3).. and now, that is an excellent projector but its much more expensive, of course..
Edited by audvid - 11/3/12 at 2:36pm
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post #37 of 63
11/3/12 at 3:08pm
Sounds almost certain that you got a bad sample, you have to send them back when you get a bad sample. You cannot just buy a single LCOS or LCD and think wow this is how they all look, gotta live with it. The RS-20 can be sharp, but it's random, more random than today's projectors. The newer JVC's are on average sharper and much fewer have convergence issues. The new JVC's from the past couple years have the best lens even under $5000, but the LENS and Convergence are two different issues. You can have the best lens and still get bad convergence, that is why you need to have a general idea of how it is supposed to look on average. The reason I know some RS-20's did have really bad convergence, is because I had a friend that owned one. My JVC RS-45 looks nothing like his RS-20, but it is not because all RS-20's look like that, it is because he had a bad sample, and like you (your friend), they both failed to exchange it.

The newer JVC's for instance are easily sharper than the average Epson 8350 and even sharper than the 5010/5020 as well. The Sony projectors I have seen don't even come all that close to the sharpness of the newer JVC's either, that is actually my gripe against the Sony is sharpness. The Sony's are fine for video but they don't look as good in reference level content or in HTPC for sharpness when you sit really close like I do, so your observations above are backwards as opposed to the majority of forum posters. It's not that you are wrong, it's just that you judged it by 1-2 samples, you have to see a few to know what to expect (where the average may fall).Most Epson 8350's as far as convergence I've seen aren't even that close to the JVC's in sharpness, and the JVC lens is more uniform. The fact is that on average the JVC's are the new sharpness champion for any NON-DLP projector that I know of (maybe the Mits hc9000 LCOS could best it slightly, but not by much).

All that said, the newer Sony's do have better color, better 3D, are brighter and maybe better lamps, better motion, but the Sony's strength isn't particularly sharpness.
Edited by coderguy - 11/3/12 at 3:37pm
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post #38 of 63
11/3/12 at 4:53pm
My friend overseas would be unable to exchange anyway.. Its complicated - actually impractical..
The sharpness I refer to of the sony is not necessarily the HS 51 (I do like the picture for the $500 I paid for it- it is not exactly reference).
The sharpness of the Sony I experience is with my Sony qualia 004. In fact, I liked it so much that I bought two - the 2nd one for back up - after disliking the JVCs etc.
I have extended experience with an older $65,000 NEC 3 chip dlp (very sharp picture - very bright 5000 lumens - but older dlps have lower contrast ratio and it shows).
The qualia 004 is extremely sharp. I would expect the new sony 4k to be equal.
True, I have seen only one RS 20.. I did see the JVC eshift - 60? I forgot model number... I have to say that I am not impressed. I am not suggesting that its horrible or bad - but I am just not impressed. I did not do a long critical viewing to say anything definitive about it. I did enough of viewing to say.. its ok. Nothing exciting.
Anyway, I am not a proponent of Sony nor an opponent of JVC, per se. I have no loyalty or animosity to either.. correction.. I must say that I not a fan of the JVCs.. Since my first JVC G10 - 14 years ago.. There is something that is not to my liking about the quality of the pics I saw on JVCs LCOS (it was called DILA at that time) - the picture is not 3D? I can't exactly pinpoint.. . I was using a 9" CRT for 10 years. Now, I find that most projectors are pretty good - $1000 dlp better than my old $25k 9" CRT.. I am in favor of single chip DLPs for the lower price point.. since they don't have convergence issues.
Edited by audvid - 11/3/12 at 5:14pm
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post #39 of 63
11/3/12 at 5:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

whoa buying so many projectors and I though I was obsessed are you ever satisfied?

I think I'm getting there. At this point the only other projector I think would be an improvement over this one would be Marantz's final foray into the projector market; the Marantz VP-11S2. The difference between my Marantz and this one was that the 11S2 was made with hand picked DC4 DLP DMDs and handpicked optics with some new optical coatings and an extra iris to get blacks even deeper. I've also heard that it's quieter as well. Until there is a 4K projector out there in a decent price range I think I'm pretty cozy sitting on this one for a little while.
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post #40 of 63
11/3/12 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

At this point the only other projector I think would be an improvement over this one would be Marantz's final foray into the projector market; the Marantz VP-11S2.

I've been looking for one of these for a while. A brand new 'old stock' 11S2 just sold on ebay for $4,888 so some folks are still out there looking for these projectors. I'm not sure I'd pay nearly 5K for one though..
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post #41 of 63
11/3/12 at 6:51pm
Thread Starter 
They're pretty hard to come by, especially new. I know that there were very limited quantities made. Either way I'll be on the look out for a good price on one and hopefully buy it before you do!
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post #42 of 63
11/4/12 at 2:33am
Ok peps, who bought it? Lol...

Audvid, if it was you, you will get rid of the qualia so fast... The Marantz VP11S2 is the finest 2D projector I have ever had the pleasure of owning... smile.gif

And was almost about to buy over my JVC RS4810...
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post #43 of 63
11/4/12 at 6:29am
sowk, you have seen my qualia.. and if you say that the Marantz VP11S2 is better, I would value your opinion. I do appreciate your knowledge in Video. You do know what you are talking about.. I would be interested in your opinion, after you buy your JVC. May be you can bring it over to my place, before you install in the ceiling (do you have it in the ceiling) and we can do an a/b comparison with the Qualia.
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post #44 of 63
11/4/12 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Ok peps, who bought it? Lol...

Audvid, if it was you, you will get rid of the qualia so fast... The Marantz VP11S2 is the finest 2D projector I have ever had the pleasure of owning... smile.gif

And was almost about to buy over my JVC RS4810...

Do you recall the calibrated lumens on the 11S2? was it enough to light up your screen?
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post #45 of 63
11/4/12 at 7:03am
sowk, maranz is 350 watts and 850 ansi lumens.
my qualia is 700 watts xenon lamp with 1600 ansi lumens. Qualia's bulb is supposedly very high end.
I have a 150" wide screen.
Maranz would not be bright enough, I think..
How wide is your screen? I forgot..
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post #46 of 63
11/4/12 at 7:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Do you recall the calibrated lumens on the 11S2? was it enough to light up your screen?

I didn't measure max light output as I only had a 92" screen at the time, I had lowered the iris all the way down (no dynamic iris) and just tried to max the light output in the lowest iris setting.

Also didn't have my light meter back then.

I think the rated 850 lumens in full open iris is close to accurate.


But the contrast ratios only around 3500:1 with full open iris.

Around 10:000 on most closed iris.
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post #47 of 63
11/4/12 at 7:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by audvid View Post

sowk, maranz is 350 watts and 850 ansi lumens.
my qualia is 700 watts xenon lamp with 1600 ansi lumens. Qualia's bulb is supposedly very high end.
I have a 150" wide screen.
Maranz would not be bright enough, I think..
How wide is your screen? I forgot..

I also have a 150 wide" (2.35:1)

If you we're to do Marantz you may not be happy with the light output. So ultimately it may not be a great choice for you.

But it has a lens or par or better then the qualia (it was tack sharp from corner to corner), and also the benefits of being DLP with no convergence problems. I just know you would really like it.




But does the Qualia actually get a true 1600 lumens or is that's Sony's manufacture spec?

Although, read this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1004706/qualia-004-owners-whats-your-next-step#post_13322673

You may already be under 600 lumens. Are you set on high bright iris setting and high lamp power mode?


*** wow was I impressed with Marantz...

Here is a post from me back when I owned it...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/955215/marantz-vp-11s2/390#post_13116987

smile.gif
Edited by SOWK - 11/4/12 at 8:06am
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post #48 of 63
11/4/12 at 12:28pm
How much lens shift did it have, I just wonder how where I can mount it with an HP screen. I doubt I will ever find one for $1500, maybe for $3000. I don't know if I can bring myself to pay that much, but it sure looks tempting.
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post #49 of 63
11/4/12 at 12:58pm
Thread Starter 
You can't ceiling mount any projector and use it with Da-Lite's HP screen. The reflective technology used on the screen is retro-reflective. It has the be placed close to eye level in front of the screen to get the benefit of the technology used on this screen. Check this thread out:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/773065/high-power-a-review-part-1

It has a good amount of vertical lens shift. I don't have the numbers right in front of me.
Edited by Seegs108 - 11/4/12 at 1:08pm
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post #50 of 63
11/4/12 at 1:25pm
Yah, I am aware of mounting issues with the HP, actually I have the 2.4 gain HP and although I agree HIGH ceiling mounting it is fruitless because you lose the gain, you can mount it above the top of the screen a bit and maintain some gain (about 1.3 to 1.4 gain). It is all relative. In my setup, if I can get the PJ level with the top of the screen, I get about 1.4 to 1.6 gain (Which is decent). If I can get the PJ mounted a little below the top of the screen, I can get near 1.8 gain still.
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post #51 of 63
11/4/12 at 1:29pm
I would have to disagree with the "can't ceiling mount a projector and use a Highpower screen" coment. I have a ceiling mounted JVC and a highpower screen and they work well together!!!cool.gifbiggrin.gif . It is true however that the closer in hight to just a few inches above ones head the light path is the more benifit the screen give you ,ie: if the projector is mounted behind you seating the lens is 6~8 inches above ones head is better than 12~14 as one is more in the "gain viewing cone"
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post #52 of 63
11/4/12 at 1:44pm
Thread Starter 
Yes, I meant more like flush to the ceiling type of installations. You can get some benefit if you can lower the mount via a pole or something to get it closer to the center of the screen.
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post #53 of 63
12/18/12 at 10:52pm
Thread Starter 
New addition coming Friday! NuVision P2 LED projector. This is basically a tweaked version of the Vivitek H9080FD with an upgraded power supply, better gamma tracking, and a factory calibration. Got it for a steal so I figured, why not? Should be interesting to shoot out against the Planar PD8150 and the Marantz VP-11S1. I'm going DLP crazy!

I'm thinking, just like the Marantz, it should pair nicely with the Da-Lite High Power screen considering it's less than par lumen output.
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post #54 of 63
12/19/12 at 9:35am
I have a Q750i mounted just above the top of a 110" high power and the picture is plenty bright.
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post #55 of 63
12/19/12 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

New addition coming Friday! NuVision P2 LED projector. This is basically a tweaked version of the Vivitek H9080FD with an upgraded power supply, better gamma tracking, and a factory calibration. Got it for a steal so I figured, why not? Should be interesting to shoot out against the Planar PD8150 and the Marantz VP-11S1. I'm going DLP crazy!
I'm thinking, just like the Marantz, it should pair nicely with the Da-Lite High Power screen considering it's less than par lumen output.


Quote:
Originally Posted by agrsiv95 View Post

I have a Q750i mounted just above the top of a 110" high power and the picture is plenty bright.

I am thinking a Q750 or similar would work well with a highpower. My aging rs10 is mounted about eye level and could easily slide one of these bad boys in if it was quiet enough...
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post #56 of 63
12/19/12 at 11:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by agrsiv95 View Post

I have a Q750i mounted just above the top of a 110" high power and the picture is plenty bright.

I've read the Q750i has the same light path, LEDs, optics, and processing as the Vivitek (NuVision) I'm receiving. It's good to know if I so choose I can get a screen that large and it'll still be bright enough. I'm pretty pumped about not having to worry about lamp life and lumen output decreasing over time. I do a lot of testing once I get a new projector and it puts a lot of hours on the lamps. I always have this voice in the back of my head telling me to stop playing around with the projector and actually watch movies while the bulb is still good. tongue.gif
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post #57 of 63
12/19/12 at 11:57am
The lens is very good (not sure who makes it), Ansi is truly phenomenal, no rainbows and as you said, no bulb. Don't see an upgrade path from here.
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post #58 of 63
12/19/12 at 3:37pm
Thread Starter 
The projector uses the same internal chassis, light path, optics and processing as the Planar PD8150/30 (Runco LS-5/3). One major difference is the use of a DC4 DLP DMD instead of a DC3. I currently own a PD8150 and am quite happy with its overall performance. It seems that ANSI contrast should be considerably higher and with the pseudo dynamic iris engaged it should have better on/off contrast as well. So I may end up selling the PD8150 considering I get all the same PQ of the PD8150 plus the benefits of an LED light engine. To be honest it all depends on how well the DI system works. The Vivitek H9080FD didn't get great marks with the DI engaged, I guess there was noticeable pumping occasionally. I'm hoping NuVision has tweaked it to make it better. I know the Runco Q750i's was tweaked and works much better than the Vivitek's. We'll see Friday...
Edited by Seegs108 - 12/19/12 at 3:44pm
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post #59 of 63
12/21/12 at 8:14pm
Mr. Seegs, hows the new projector shaping up?
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post #60 of 63
12/22/12 at 10:43am
Thread Starter 
I'm having a couple issues with it. The seller told me it went to Vivitek before hand to get inspected. I'm assuming they updated the software with an incorrect firmware. Certain things in the menu don't change when you choose something. Other funky things happen as well when playing around in the menus. I'm in the process to send it to Vivitek to get checked out.
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