BenQ W1070 : DLP Full HD, 3D Ready with lens-shift for 1000$ - Page 86

What's "low price" about Panasonic? The cheapest for the home they offer is $1300, with the AE7/8000 going from $2-$3,000. Right there with Epson and pricier than most Optomas.

I don't think he meant that Panny's or Epsons are low priced, but that maybe they have low margins. Lower margins are the primary reasons why LCD was pushed so much more heavily than plasma, despite plasma having many more advantages in terms of PQ.

Happy Owner Here

So, I'm the colors on this thing are outstanding! Last night I messed around with some of Arts suggested settings and the pic was too dark. I really like the look of Standard and Dynamic...they just seem to have too much red for my taste. Any Advanced Color Settings suggestions?

It is very fair, if you get a perfectly working DLP unit and a perfectly working LCD unit, the chances are higher the LCD will fail over time IF both units are equal in all other reliability factors. I did say I would NOT buy a projector based on reliability, they are all reliable enough if you get a good enough sample, and there is no real way to know which one is more reliable. However, if we take the knowns vs. the knowns, instead of the unknowns vs. the knowns, then we know this:

Hence, let's say someone built as perfect an LCD as possible and as perfect a DLP as possible, it is absolutely fact that the DLP has fewer things that can go wrong because there are SIMPLY FEWER PARTS. I don't know where you get your info from or why you think you know this, but this is standard industry knowledge. They use high-end HD motors now in the color wheels, the color wheel failure rates are less than 1/4th of what they used to be. IT can still happen, but it is VERY rare. LCD still has dust blob problems and heat degradation over heavy usage, if you overheat a DLP projector, it is much less likely to take damage.

Build quality is a misnomer, all build quality is relates to cooling, lamp, and power, and some will say how well the features work (ok,but in this case we are talking reliability only). We cannot say which projector is more reliable over given model just by looking at forums mainly because power and lamp issues are hard to equate, but if all other things are equal, DLP has a tendency to last longer.
Edited by coderguy - 2/19/13 at 9:12am

Surely you mean the HIGH margins of LCD?

Difficult to impossible to know (the real margins for avs) of Epson vs BenQ vs Panasonic vs etc.


James
Edited by mastermaybe - 2/19/13 at 11:13am

No offence, but you did sound like a panicky guy who makes hasty decisions The overall reaction is quite explainable. And Coderguy sees to the root as always.

What's "fair"? Comparing "perfectly working" lcd and dlp pj's and saying lcd will likely fail before the dlp?

And then going on to say "there is no real way to know which one is more reliable". Sheesh, let me know when you make your mind up.

Fewer things that CAN go wrong vs total incidents are two completely different items. Variability does not necessarily correlate to higher rate. A carburetor has a significantly larger number of moving parts (that can fail) than a fuel injection system, yet some designs have proven to be more reliable that some fuel injection arrays. What ifs can be- and often are- pointless.

Dust blobs? I'd love to know the x/100 ratio for LCD owners after 3-5 years.

Heat degradation? I could be terribly under or ill-informed, but my understanding was that the latest wave of inorganic panels were tremendously resilient against such?

"Build quality is a misnomer." Excuse me? Some people enjoy HDMI ports that retain a connection...comes in handy when you want to project an image. Ditto for other image and sound related items. Don't think you'll find ANYONE else who thinks build quality is simply encompassed by "cooling, lamp, and power".

No one (certainly not I, anyway) ever said we could use avs forums to determine definitive reliability rates amongst projectors...that of course is ridiculous, and really, stupid. That doesn't mean though, again, that there's not much to be gained by reading them (unbiasedly) retaining what you've learned, processing it, and using it to make a more informed decision.

You don't know where I get my info from? Fine (even though in the aforementioned example I made it clear that I was using the "official avs" thread for either pj). From which does yours emanate? "Standard industry knowledge"? Great, such standardized knowledge is easily verified, then. I'd love to see the valid statistical data supporting the claim...the world wide web makes such things fantastically navigable and painless.

I look forward to perusing it and discovering the err of my ways.

James

Yes. When I said low margins is why LCD was pushed over plasma, I was referring to the low margins of plasma. I made no mistake.

Obviously, but that wasn't the point. It was a supposition on his part as to why AVS might not carry the BenQ any longer. It was provided as another possibility besides the previous poster's assertion that they don't carry it anymore because it's junk, which is also nothing more than supposition.

I am curious why you are still in this thread. Don't take that to mean that I want you to stop posting here. You are free to do as you like. I'm just genuinely curious why you would hang around a thread for a product that you've already concluded is junk. What's the point? To educate the masses of its junkiness?

I don't own the PJ and, although I would seriously consider it if the price came back down to $899 with the gift card deal, I am no lock to buy it, so I'm not being defensive or trying to antagonize. It's just that, me personally, if I had made the decision that a product isn't worth my time, I would never post in that products thread again, so I'm just trying to understand the rationale. It'd be one thing if you were still on the fence, but you seem to be very resolute in your thinking against this PJ, and possibly DLP in general (?), so again, I'm just curious.

Read my benq critique again. Some of the problems show up in all of their lines such as the vertical stripes. The mainboard has a solder issue with the processing board that cannot be fixed. It shows up regularly throughout their lines. you have to follow all of the benq threads to see this. Quality control issue.7000 has lense issues where focus drifts due to plastic lens. Other manufacturers use plastic lens and dont suffer. Not all machines in the 7000 share this so this could be a bad batch of lens but this shows that benq doesnt inspect their suppliers.Quality control. I personally would stick to a manufacturer that has alonger warranty than 1 year esp one that has known issues.Optoma and Viewsonic both have their own issues but their warranty period allows more leeway to fix whatever issue crops up. Optoma and viewsonic both have better warranties and if I was buying in this price range I would stick to their products for dlp pj's. Higher up I would go newest JVC or b stock marantz, sim, or Samsung knowing that there would be no 3d but the best 2d.

First: most would read this sentence: "Lower margins are the primary reasons why LCD was pushed so much more heavily than plasma, despite plasma having many more advantages in terms of PQ." and (correctly) assume you were speaking of LCDs lower margins. But so long as you insist you made no mistake...carry on, then. Hint: replace "lower" with "higher" at the beginning of the sentence and ask yourself which makes more sense.

I won't bother with the "that's not the point" comment. It is of course precisely the point within the context of which it was brought about...the second time around.

Additionally: I'd ask you to not lie (or hopelessly mis-read) and patently misrepresent what I have typed and remains textual evidence of what I have ACTUALLY said, thanks. I never once stated or even implied that this PJ is junk...actually directly said it WASN'T. What I DID say was that it appears to me to be having more issues than comparably priced LCD AND DLP models. I stand by that assertion.

Curious as to why I'm in this thread? Lol- probably not at all, but merely a passive aggressive "non-antagonistic" jab at me, just like your baseless generalization about my feelings towards DLPs. Go figure.

This is an AV forum. Check the "owner" threads and check out how many "non and prospective owners" post in the threads...especially so with newly-released, "hot" products such as the 1070. Seems like a damn good place to observe and collect information on a prospective purchase.

And not that I have to prove anything to you, but this pj IS on my list. I already went with a Panny PT AR100u for my living room (check its owner's thread and contrast it with the 1070 in the "problems and reliability depts", btw) but still have the 1070 lined up for my second room where it can work much better with its lack of real LS and lesser zoom.

I hope it's really ok for me to hang around without a receipt, now.

James

Standard avs thread progression:
1) Courtship
2) Engagement
3) Marriage
4) Honeymoon
5) Disillusionment
6) Fighting
7) Divorce

There is nothing wrong with that sentence. I was speaking of lower margins and not of the TV type, therefore it matters not what order I put it in. If I had said lower margins OF LCDs, then you would have a point. Notice that there is a "despite" and then an extolling of the benefits of plasma over LCD and I don't think that "most" would (incorrectly) assume that I made a mistake, but again, besides the point.

The only (not at all passive) aggressive person in this thread is you. It seemed from your comments that you weren't considering the PJ, so that's why I asked. I think it's reasonable to infer that if someone had assessed that a particular product had more issues than any other competing product in its price range, that they would no longer be considering said product. That could be just me though. After all, I mix up my margins

Post to your heart's content. Doesn't bother me. Just trying to have a conversation. That was my mistake.

Carry on.
Edited by Stuntman_Mike - 2/19/13 at 12:48pm

THAT'S LIFE

Here is a old youtube video about LCD VS DLP which one is better.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfGrWZwiRFU

Nice find! even if a little dated it still holds true for me. I've seen this difference for years and still prefer DLP.

Just my 2c

Rew

YouTube is blocked here at work, but I'll watch when I get home. Sure it won't unearth anything new, but I like watching these types of vids, when done by credible sources, as often as I can.

Nice one indeed!....lol.

Good video. I had a similar experience recently, and since I got a lot of good info from this thread when I was shopping, I'll share my $.02...

It was reading about the W1070 that first convinced me it was time to upgrade, but after much research I instead chose to order the Epson 3020 from Visual Apex. I figured the 3020's extra lumens would make the difference in 3D picture quality, and the Epson didn't disappoint--the picture was big, bright, and beautiful, even with its 3D glasses--but mine had a color uniformity issue that I didn't find acceptable for a new PJ.

VA accommodated my request to get a W1070 as a 'replacement', so I had the luxury of doing some side-by-side testing for a couple days. It was really hard to give either one up--both looked awesome for 2D & 3D movies and games, converting my big white living room wall into a portal to Pandora, the Great Barrier Reef, or anywhere else I wanted to go.

After much tweaking I got the W1070's color and 3D brightness/gamma (even using cheaper 3DTV glasses) to look very similar to the Epson 3020, but I was never quite able to get the 3020 to produce the image detail of the W1070. Objects that are supposed to appear shiny, glassy, or slick onscreen really do with the DLP (i.e. water, chrome, glass, Geico geckos, etc), giving them the illusion of tangibility that I'm most interested in.

So in the end, even though the 3020 was beautiful, and definitely the more sophisticated and user-friendly product, I just couldn't let go of my W1070. Now I'm happily re-watching my favorite movies for the first time. Hope that helps, B)

I dont make hasty decisions but i do admitt that i sounded a bit panicked..lol...but after all i already ordered it so maybe its understandable......anyways i am sure i will enjoy this PJ and if i ever have any issue with the unit i will just do what needs to be done...as soon as i get it and set it up i will give my own impressions here...i am no expert in reviews and english isnt my first language but i will try my best....maybe its a no match i dont know but i will compare it with my previous PJ wich was the Optoma GT-750E.

I found this new video on youtube today..i tought it was cool.....maybe some of you will like to see it....here it is.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS3pjaGZ1DQ

Thanks for recounting your experience.

One thing though. You probably didn't do a calibration on either PJ, but the W1070 is actually brighter than the Epson is after calibrating both even though the Epson is a 2400 lumen PJ and the W1070 is only a 2000 lumen one. To me, that's more important than OOTB brightness, because the fact that the Epson loses so many lumens after cal, tells me that Epson "cheated" to get those numbers.

Seems irrelevant to me to have a PJ that's 2400 lumens, but in an "unwatchable" state. Then you calibrate it and it's only 1300-1400 lumens.

All these PJ's should be giving numbers in a calibrated state (I know it will never happen). I don't need to know how bright your image will be when Green gain is maxed out, making the image look like crap lol.

Did you noticed the screen door effect that most LCD have like the 3020???

Hello all!
Joined avsforum because of this projector and thread.

*please forgive mistakes in this write up. . . I'm terrible at proofing my own writing.

We've had ours for about 10 days and I thought I would give our thoughts on it.

Background
We've watched movies off our computer for the past several years. . .many actually. Just lately we decided to get an HDTV. Started off with a Samsung (UN55ES7150F) for $1,5000 (often $2k or more). It was a nightmare! Poor color accuracy, judder like you wouldn't believe, light bleeding from the lower left edge, horrible "smart" features, and artifacts on the screen that suggested it may have been a bad panel. We then went with a LG (55LS4500) we picked up for $700. When we put it next to the Samsung it looked better in every way except it's design. The color was very good and detail was better. We really liked this TV. . . HOWEVER, it started having pretty bad edge light bleeding. That's when I decided to look at projectors — always wanted to have my own movie theater. . . can't stand going to the theater and sitting in those pain traps they call seats.

We were just about to go with a Mitsubishi when this thing popped up. So we waited a month to see the reviews and then we thought the W1080ST would be even better. . .

Ordering
We ordered directly from Benq — they matched the low price of $899. We were going to go with the W1080ST (had it on pre-order for $1,049) but thought it might have edge to edge focus issues being a very short throw projector and when the price on the W1070 dropped. . . couldn't pass it up.

They were out of stock when we ordered. Took about 10 days for it to ship. Arrived in it's box — no secondary box, but it was well packed. All the latest — firmware 1.04.

Setup
The current setup is temporary as we are remodeling (completely) a house we moved into not long ago. Therefore, we are using a DIY screen with the projector at ~84" diagonal.

We are seated about 12' from the screen.
The projector is about 7' from the screen.
The projector is hooked up to a laptop through a Pioneer VSX-522-K receiver (no up-scaling - very basic).

Screen
We tested a total of 5 different DIY materials for this projector - this is a long story but I'll keep it short.

4 from HD and the Sherwin Williams white paint.
The Sherwin Williams IMO is the best and looks excellent with this projector however, the little lady thinks one of the 4'x8' from HD looks more natural. I think the "pop" and color saturation on the SW is better and that it look more natural - you don't have any of that light shining through on skin that you see so much with LCD/LED HDTV and some of these materials. However, the SW was painted over Melamine from HD. This happened because she didn't see that the Melamine's texture was causing issues with the image (don't use it) before we hung it - the initial test was a rather small projection due to certain constraints, thus I painted the Melamine with SW but the hassle of getting it flat with a roller and it hot spotted at this distance pretty bad at the level of the lens caused me to use something else.

Thus we went back to HD and got Polywall (Parkland plastics) and a 4'x8' mdf board that's white on one side — HD here has two 4'x8' white boards here in the Denver metro area, one is shinier and the other is more like paint with a fine texture as if it was rolled on very very well.

Honestly, they all look pretty decent and very similar but I chose to use the mdf that looks like it's painted on one side — easier to hang on the current dog-legged wall.

If anyone wants the details of this material I can get it - didn't keep the receipt. This is the material she thinks looks "more natural" but I think SW is better, if the hot spotting can be handled (very noticeable on white scenes) — I'll try it with a clear coat some time later and will probably spray SW onto the projector wall for the final screen at ~150" if I can work it out.

Image quality
The quality is good but that is totally dependent on the content it is fed — poorly compressed material looks horrid as it will accentuate every flaw of the content. Great 1080p content looks stunning!

The DLP "cinema" look that people talk about. . . is real. Freaked me out a little for the first hour of watching it — I adjust rather quickly. Nonetheless, this was one of many reasons I wanted DLP over LCD for a projector.

Focus seems good — slightly out of focus on the top and right of the screen but I'm pretty sure that's our non-perfect screen, and even if it isn't you don't notice it at all when watching content. . . maybe a little when using it as a monitor.

I can't say much about judder as the current laptop has poor graphics but gets the job done. What I can say, unlike the two LED-LCD HDTVs we tested, this projector has NOT add any more judder than is already there from the laptop.

Noise
If running high quality 1080p content there seems to be little to no noise however, this projector does tend to turn noise into — not sure of the term — fizzy/mosquito noise. It's just not the same noise you would see on an LCD and this projector does nothing — no matter what settings are used — to clean any of it up. Therefore, IMO it's bad for poor content (read: poorly compressed content).

Color
Pretty good out of the box. It's liveable but certainly can be better with adjustments. With the SW it didn't need any tweaking to look pretty amazing. The current board, imo, needs a little tweaking but still looks as good as any LED-LCD HDTV under $3K that we've looked at.

Brilliant color
This is actually useable! The LCD HDTVs brilliant color modes were horrid! This gives a little boost in brightness as well.

Black levels to us are fine — as good as the LCD HDTVs we tested. With both the TVs we had to push the contrast up or shadow detail would get crushed. . . we don't think this projector is any different. Black items look black in relation to everything else and is very acceptable to us.

Lumens
I hope others can clarify if they have this same issue.

The eco smart mode seems to be just as bright, if not brighter, than any other mode. In other words, I don't get any significant boost in brightness from any settings other than gamma and a slight boost form brilliant color.

Contrast
Comparing this to the LCD tvs that we tested with 17M & 4M dynamic contrast ratios. . . this has as good of a "watchable" contrast ration as either of them.

Dynamic mode
haven't really used this much. . . but it looks horrid out of the box.

3D
OK. . . this part is a little irritating if you are using a HTPC as your source.

IMO Benq has stretched the truth just a little too far when describing this projector's ability to play 3D in "full 1080p HD". They imply that you will get 1080p using just about any source. No, you won't. You will get 1080p/24hz for top-bottom/over-under and frame packing, only. Which means you have to jack with your graphics every time. . . just an annoyance — seriously, 1080i for SBS?!?!? While this is in the manual their site is a little liberal with the description and lacks any notes.

I've tried some of the ways to play 3d suggested by others. . . nothing really works for me other than changing my graphic card's properties. If I leave it set to 1080p/60hz the 3D options won't even come up.

The best solution I've found. . . set my card to 720p. For some strange reason, maybe someone here knows, this is the only setting that keeps the exact same screen size, and then I can play my 1080p 3D SBS content without any issues — yeah, I'm still not getting 1080p, but 3D isn't that big of a deal for us. Haven't even got glasses yet.

Of course, for blu-ray just set it to 1080p/24hz.

Build quality and quality control
Honestly, I don't think there is much quality control on this product.
The lid covering the vertical lens shift is so loose that it opens when you turn the projector up. . . makes it feel very cheap.

When I look into the lens from the side when it's on I swear I see dust spots inside the lens with what appears to be lens grinding marks and/or possibly a smear. . . it actually looks very dirty, but maybe that's just projectors?

While we haven't had severe problems with the HDMI ports they are not the snuggest fit and a slight bump with disconnect you.

Menu
Welcome to 1995!!!! It's just bad!

Conclusion
I take the word of fellow owners who have owned other projectors, since I haven't, on how this one rates compared to others. As has been discussed by many, for $900 there doesn't seem to be anything close — looks better than the LED-LED HDTVs we tested. . . and you get whatever screen size you desire, and that makes this projector worth keeping. The picture quality is great if you feed it quality content and it has enough lumens to deal with some ambient light. . . not a lot (blacks get hammered) unless you go with a gray screen — I think I would rather control the light and keep my whites. And honestly, at this price range I can use it till the lamp is dead and not feel bad about upgrading or throwing it in the bedroom with a new lamp and upgrading the living area.

Questions for other owners
1. there is ~1/2" boarder projected by the projector around the image. I assume this is normal?
2. as noted above, I don't get a noticeable boost in lumens when changing lamp power settings. Anyone get a big boost?
3. anyone else notice this "dirty lens" issue? Doesn't seem to effect picture quality. . . but I don't have two side by side to really say.

Are you referring to standing with your eyes 1 foot away from the screen and seeing distinct squares for pixels? If you don't want to see squares when 1ft from image, you can always unfocus the projector and have a more "Film-like" quality.

I can see the screen door / pixel grid from any projector on my 13ft wall if I look close enough, but it wasn't distracting on either one. As noted by others, the 3020 was softer overall, more 'film-like'.

By the way, if you've never seen the rainbow, just turn on the W1070's test pattern--white gridlines on black--and then glance from one side to the other...bazinga! But again, not distracting in most uses.

Here are my comments, mostly conjecture:
1. That small gap between the image and the edges of the projection field seems to an artifact of the DLP chips.
2. I also have yet to notice a change going from full bright to smart-eco mode, but from what I’ve read the change should be slow.
3. Got a little smudge on the outside of my lens, but too small to have much effect, and I think I can clean it. Thanks for pointing that out, B)

This thread should be about the W1070 and it is now going all over the place. Let's get back on track and describe experience and questions regarding this projector.

Couldn't agree more...Happy Owner Here!

So, I'm the colors on this thing are outstanding! Last night I messed around with some of Arts suggested settings and the pic was too dark. I really like the look of Standard and Dynamic...they just seem to have too much red for my taste. Any Advanced Color Settings suggestions? Can some of you share what color settings you are running?

man with the Optoma HD25 coming out and having RF, I am torn, what would be more important to me... the ease of lens shift... or better 3d with RF tech, since everything else seems to be basically the same other then the potential nosier fan that the Optoma has... guess I will have to hold tight and wait for more people to get their hands on the HD25 to compare with what people have experienced in this thread with the BenQ

This is getting too off-track, but just to wrap this up...

There are some tested field return rates available if I can dig them up again. DLP is more reliable for the reasons I stated if the color wheel is not likely to fail (and on most new DLP's it is exceedingly rare), you are obviously arguing this as an LCD owner and not based on actual logic and facts.

DLP has fewer parts and is not usually affected or degraded by heat, no dust blobs, no convergence, less electrical parts, and has closed OPTICS. The newer CW motors are basically the same as enterprise hard drive motors (like Seagate Cheetah SAS drives) and are exceedingly rare to fail. I clearly stated my point and you twisted them around acting like a total smarty party, I said we don't know which INDIVIDUAL PROJECTOR is more reliable from a forum, but if all else is equal DLP is more reliable because color wheel failures are so rare these days, and the three issues with LCD are not rare. There is no double talk there, that is CLEARLY stated. You used cheesy "attack words" to try to turn the argument around and send it to the gutter.

I am not a DLP fanboy if that is what you are hinting, my most watched PJ is an LCOS projector, and I darn well know it is not as reliable as DLP even though I paid 3x the cost of most DLP's. The initial point remains valid, if all else is equal...

If you ACTUALLY BELIEVE that COLOR WHEELS fail in the warranty period as often as an LCD having any of several problems (dust blobs, panel issue, polarizers, convergence, complex electrical, more parts), then you are seriously misinformed and there is no reason to continue this discussion. The panels aren't even usually the first thing to go anymore on LCD (though over-time convergence can become an issue again), but it's the polarizers. The open optical path also causes some parts to fog up easier or dust and LCD's will more than not eventually need to be cracked open for cleaning, even if you changed the filters regularly, There are three panels here and polarizers, more complex parts, more numerous electrical parts, and even more complex cooling is required for an LCD.

Even though the above is true, I would not move away from LCD for this reason, if you want an LCD, then go for it. Heck, I bought a JVC knowing the lamp issues and no CMS, so it's all just your own personal decision. It doesn't mean you have to come in here and try to belittle people with false info.
Edited by coderguy - 2/19/13 at 10:50pm