*UPDATE: I came back to this post and updated after having the projector for 3 weeks. Plz reade as my views have somewhat changed. This current edit reflects my current review of the W1070.
Ive had my Benq W1070 for one day and im blown away. Before buying it i was very hesitant it would be worth "wasting more money" on another projector.
A bit of background about me: I love gaming, 3D gaming in particular. I used to work in the games industry. Ive owned the following 3D products, Samsung PS50C680 Samung 3D Plasma 3D TV, Sony HMZ-T2 (xtalk free 720p 3D googles), Optoma GT750, Optoma HD33, Panasonic PTAT6000E, Epson TW9000(demoed) and also TW9100 (demoed), Sony HW50es. As you can see ive tried very hard to find the perfect 3D product!
Before owning a projector i owned a Sony HMZ-T2 for about 1 year and loved every moment of it. It introduced me to perfect xtalk free 3D. And i was hooked.
As some readers will know my first projector was a Optoma HD33, the 2D picture is good (let down by blacks), but the 3D picture is simply stunning, no xtalk, no ghosting, no eye fatigue, the glasses vastly improve the balcks. And it corrupted me, i thought all projectors would be as good in 3D. However, the HD33 let me down in one area, while its 2D gaming (i use it for Xbox 360 and Ps3) is great because of low lag, in 3D.... its lag is awful. On top of that the HD33's upscaling of console 3D games to 1080p results in a very blurry/muddy image, poor upscaler. I spent the first two weeks playing Super Star Dust (in 3D mode) over and over again. Normally i can achieve 80million points using my HMZ-T2 and 3D TV, but as hard as i tried the lag on the HD33 only allowed me to achieve 25million consistently.
So began my search to find a projector that would do 3D gaming with low lag. Beware long post
HD33 owners planning to upgrade to W1070 may find this helpful.
The HD33 was £700, so i thought maybe the budget price, it has budget a processor in it, so if i spent more ill get better, faster 3D performance. So i purchased the Panasonic PTAT6000E
, it was an obvious choice, Its won a What HiFi award, Panasonic make the best 3D plasmas, reviews generally claim theres minimal xtalk, ghosting. Very good 2D picture, good blacks. Low lag in both 2D and 3D mode, but.... and a huge but, the Xtalk and Ghosting is appalling. Its so bad most of the time details in the background in Blu rays are so blurry is hard/impossible to focus on them. 3D Gaming was impossible. My Samsung 3D TV has xtalk, but games are perfectly playable, the AT6000E was simply unwatchable and unplayable. It makes the HD33 look like a £25k 3D projector. So i returned the Panasonic. How can a what HiFi award product be so bad? And its not cheap either £2500.
So i decided the best option was to find a showroom and DEMO a bunch of projectors (i still had the HD33 at this time).
I tried the Epson TW9000 & TW9100
, Good 2D, best 3D of all the demos i tried, minimal xtalk, infact i dont remember seeing any xtalk at all. But the gaming lag in both 2D and 3D was awful on the TW9000. The demo person was unable to find the "game mode" on the TW9100, but i was not impressed with the "motion judder in 3D and the image just looks really soft compared to the HD33.
Next game the JVC DLAX35, Great 2D picture, awful xtalk in 3D, laggy 2D and 3D gaming.
Next up Sony HW50es, Good 2D picture, 3D xtalk is bad, worse than said in reviews, its midway bewteen the Epson TW and the JVC. 2D & 3D gaming lag is minimal. Reality creation combined with 3D gaming really sharpened the image.
But i went away with none of the demoed projectors, the Sony by far was the most suitable in terms of input lag. But i could not accept the xtalk and ghosting, the perfect 3D from the "budget HD33" blows them all away by a HUGE factor. Also i went away with one thought in my mind, natively without any detail enhancements turned on.... the budget HD33 is so much sharper than all the mid ranged projectors 3~4 times its price! Plus DLP really does have a POP (colours) to the image that LCD, LCOS lack. The demo day made me realize how good the HD33 really is.
So i did lots of reading and bought the Optoma GT750. Reviews say the blacks are bad but the image quality is good, being 720p games should look sharp because they won't need to be upscaled. And the input lag is next to Zero. Being DLP zero xtalk. On my first gaming session after just 2 tries i got 130million points on Super Star Dust in 3D mode. I was amazed by how much even a bit of input lag had held back my score in the past. The GT750 truly has super low lag and combined with xtalk free 3D, my new high score blew my old record outta the water. BUT and a huge but, i sent the GT750 back. When you play a next gen console game, you play it for its fantastic graphics, vivid colours and details. The GT750 allows for a massive screen. But what the point of that when the games on it look simply poor compared to a 3D TV? The Blacks are very bad, contrast is bad, colours very muddy. And on top of that image distortion due to short throw lens.
I came to the conclusion that no one projector ticks all the boxes, that i would have to keep the HD33 purely for 3D and buy a premium 2D projector for good movie blacks and low input lag in 3D gaming, but will have to accept minimal xtalk. So i decided to get the HW50es. Its a jack of all trade and does them all pretty darn good.
I can confirm the HW50es is fantastic in both 2d and 3D gaming lag. The upscaler is good, nice vivid 3D gaming colours, great contrast, good blacks. With reality creation on, 3D games become that extra bit sharper which is good. I found that 3D gaming with a bit of xtalk, was acceptable, oddly once immersed in the game one does not notice the xtalk that much. However often bad guys in the distance of FPS will be slightly out of focus looking. BUT a huge but, as much as i tried to accept it, the xtalk and ghosting is really distracting in movies, so i always reverted back to the HD33 for 3D blu rays. Where the HD33 excels and blows the HW50es outta the water. Oddly the HD33 has deeper blacks than the HW50es in 3D mode and oddly, the contrast ratio advantage the HW50es has over the HD33 in 2D mode.... is not that striking in 3D... the HD33 is simply amazing for its price.
But owning 2 projectors is a real pain in the backside, the HD33 is small and easy to store, but the Sony is huge and heavy and a pain to setup because of its size. As much as i tried, i tweeked and messed about with settings and tried to watch 3D movies on the Sony, some days ill be really happy, some days deeply disappointed with the xtalk. How can a 3K projector not do everything i want?
Then i read about two new projectors Optoma HD25 and Benq W1070. The Optoma 25 looks really interesting, double the contrast of the HD33 claimed, and Optoma seem to be promoting it as a gaming projector on their website. So could this be a 1080p GT750, but with better contrast than the HD33? But theres very few reviews and tbh i have found every review site very conflicting and do not very well cover in all aspects 2D Movie, 3D movie, 2D Gaming, 3D Gaming. Also "minimal ghosting" to most reviewers.... well that means extremely disappointing/distracting 3D to me.
Phoned Optoma, they confirmed the HD25 has the same throw lens as the HD33, which means in most peoples small homes like mine, one can only project a 72in screen max. Which was another reason i prefered the HW50es as it easily projects a 85in screen in my room. whats the point of a 72in screen when you can buy a 3D TV thats 65in and will blow away the image on any projector?
Thats where the Benq W1070 really got my attention! Ive spent weeks reading forums and did not find any conclusive comparo with HD33. So here we go, i hope readers find this useful Benq W1070 vs HD33 Vs HW50es.
Mainly its about W1070 VS HD33, but will report on how the HW50 does just for fun.My Setup:
Projectors Mounted 2.6m from screen.
85in Optoma pull down white 1.0 gain screen. Walls are light sky blue, above projector screen is a 185cm wide by 100cm black pull out blind which runs across ceiling to reduce "light bounce" from ceiling.
Sony BDP-s790 Blu Ray player that features Sonys Reality Creation feature which is excellent for projectors.Benq W1070 first impressions:
Initially i was impressed, the design is really cute, very compact, almost 25% smaller than HD33. But that also worried me. I looked at the lens, compared to the HD33 and HW50es its tiny, it looks like a toy. I worried it would be a downgrade, how could a lens of this size be anywhere as good as the others, especially because its short throw?Side by Side Test:
I set up the projectors projecting exactly the same screen size slightly offsetted so i can tell one projector from another. Swiftly covering each lens from one projector to another allowed me to compare the image in real time. More importantly i was able to launch a 3D game and compare the response times. When playing 3D games and navigating the menu's in both 2D and 3D mode, the image of the HD33 clearly lagged behind the W1070. Buy what looks like 1/4 or even 1/2 a second. I was really surprised to see the HD33 was more laggy in 2D as well as it plays fine in 2D gaming. What an eye opener. Just confirms that W1070 is even better for gaming.Throw Ratio:
I have a 85in screen, which the HW50es projects on with inches to spare. Annoyingly the HD33 can only project a 72in screen from my back wall. This therefore ruled out the HD25 as it has the exact same throw as the HD33. You can imagine a 72in image from the HD33, the black frame around movies is obviously visble and very distracting as its not black at all, but lighter than the "un-projected screen surface".
The throw ratio of the W1070 allows for a 85in screen easily in my room with the zoom at almost minimal setting. A 102" screen is possible at max zoom/throw. Thats amazing, considering the projector is only 2.6 meters from the screen.Image Sharpness & 2D Image:
I was nervous about the W1070, as i had owned a Optoma GT750 weeks before. The short throw lens, sure it allowed for huge screens... but the quality of the image was not pleasing. The edges and middle vary in focus, you can't get all the image focused at once and placement is extremely fussy you need to have it dead on for optimal focus. Also the extreme throw results in an image which is very inconsistent, its very distorted. The best way to describe is, its like what happens when you dip your head in water, and then come up and look at the word. Its rippled. Not as extreme as my example, but its clearly visible on rolling credits in movies, or playing horizontal scrolling games.... you can see the text and image distort in ripples as they move across the screen. When you are playing a next gen game, you don't want the image quality compromised like this.
In 2D, the HD33 and W1070 are very comparable in default mode with their sharpness set to max. The W1070 "can" resolve the same amount of detail as the HD33. However this is a excessive image noise. The noise can be removed by setting clarity control above 0, but this makes the W1070 less detailed than HD33. The HD33 with its "pure detail" on max, it creates a sharper more detailed image, picking up fine details the W1070 misses, but without adding excessive image noise.
The order of quality is as follows.
*UPADTE: My second W1070 is actually slightly less bright than the HD33! Both set to brightest lamp mode and default image settings. So it seems the brightness on these machines are very comparable, variations may just exist from one production unit to another.Blacks "Dark Greys":
2D Side by side tests of dark scenes, both HD33 and W1070 blacks are very comparable, and i mean the difference is so small its not that noticeable, and varies from one scene to another. Movie black panels are extremely similar on both, the edge i think goes to the HD33, but its ever so slight and im not even sure! Now, this is going to sound really odd, but if you want a quick and easy way to lower the blacks, simply wear the 3D glasses and turn then OFF, the W1070 is plenty bright for the whites to not be overly effected, yet the blacks darken enough for the movie borders to blend better into the screen edges.
In 2D the HD50es is clearly better than both projectors, better blacks and much better contrast ratio, more clean detailed image, but again for a 3K priced projector.... i have always been a bit disappointing... it really should be blacker, its still a darker grey and very annoying leading me to constantly tweak and fiddle during movies. Because at this price point, i expect better. The W1070 i can accept the dark greys, as its such a affordable projector, and the vivid colours and brightness more than makes up for it. I have not sold the HW50 yet... ill spend more nights watching the W1070 in 2D before making a final decision. But my line of thought is sell the HW and save it towards a 4K DLP lazer projector that will be out in 2 years
3D Blacks, this is where both HD33 and W1070 are practically exactly the same (i would say the HD33 is a touch, every so slightly darker), and both considered very good, its deffo better than the blacks in 2D thanks to the darkening effect of the glasses, kinda like wearing a pair of ND2 filters. The HW50es has better contrast ratio, which actually does lead to extremely dark blacks in 3D mode, a lot better than 2D blacks again thanks to the glasses. In darkest scenes yes the HW50es in 3D is more detailed and has more much more contrast punch. But in most scenes, i say 70% of the scenes the DLP's picture is way more detailed, i dare say between 50% to 100% more detailed. Simply because theres no Xtalk, the HW50es has a tiny bit of xtalk all the time, blurring mid and background details every so slightly. Infact the HW50es on a 85in screen viewed from 2.4m, i can see the lack of detail for that screen size on 3D blu rays. Tempting me to reduce the screen size down to 75in, or sitting further back on a stool in the hallway, lol. And i do this often. The image is a touch soft, even with reality creation on. The W1070 on the 85" is simply a beauty to behold. Using the BR players reality creation, and setting the W1070 sharpness to "15", the 3D movies are so detailed its almost like watching a 3K movie. Its amazing, and only costing £700 it kinda makes a mockery of the Sims £25k 3D projectors! I have not seen a sims, but i have seem plenty of different 3D formats to know the W1070 is very good.
Im using Sainsonic 3D DLP universal glasses. The Benq W1070 i heard is even better with its official glasses which are rated at 1500:1 contrast, the sainsonic are rated at 1000:1. Ill update once i get them, but avs readers have reported the benq indeed are brighter/ better overall.Lens shift:
the HD33 has none which is not that bad, a few cds help adjust its height :P The W1070 has a tiny bit of vertical lens shift, but once set it stays put, all day, forever. Excellent. The HW has lens shift but annoying it moves about during the period of watching a movie. Thus i am constantly micro adjusting it for perfection.Colours:
Oddly the W1070 colour slider is greyed out? I have no idea why? Does anyone know? Initially i was disappointing by the W1070 because the HD33 had more vibrant colours which i have grown to love. This was particularly noticeable in 3D mode, leading to a washed out image with little pop. Playing with the setting i noticed theres a "Colour Temperature Fine Tuning" which allows users to adjust the RGB gains. So i popped up RG&B gains up about 20%. Colour vibrancy is very impornt in 3D, more so than in 2D, because the colours help the perceived brightness of the image. With my tweaks the colours almost match exactly the HD33. I will say thos the HD33 has easier/faster colour gamma presents. For example in 3D i often would use it in "Graphics Gamma" to add that extra brightness and pop to 3D. Oddly the W1070 only has presets called "3D" and "User3", Dynamic Cinema and a few other presets are greyed out in 3D and even in 2D. My firmware is 1.04. Do i have an W1070 with a faulty menu with greyed out options? Anyways the S790 blu ray player has presets and extra controls for adding more colour saturation and this makes the W1070 look almost identical to the HD33, almost because the HD33 seems a tiny bit more saturated and contrasty. Just a tiny but.
Colour wise order is as follows:
W1070 3rdImage Quality - Details:
2D: The HW50es has reality creation built in and with that its more detailed than the DLPs. However my Sony S790 BR player has reality creation which when switched on for the HD33 and W1070.... the results are stunning. Its almost like the resolution has increased by 50% to 100% depending on the movie quality. The W1070 with its sharpness at "15", max, is more detailed than the HD33 even with its pure detail setting at "3", max.
Over all in 2D the Sony is far and above better than the DLP's, much better blacks (Still dark greys on the HW50), less noisy image, more vibrant colours. But IMO, its very expensive if you only use the 2D feature.
The 3D is a hit and miss and as a result can be frustrating, some movies its great (Promethos & Avengers Assemble) other movies is not so great with distracting xtalk (Despicable me, Tangled, Caroline). When theres no xtalk, the picture is fantastic, like looking thru a window to the world. When theres xtalk, it can happen so suddenly, you go from an almost perfect scene to one with massive xtalk. It makes you think why is it happening here? Throwing me completely out of the movie experience. 3D gaming is still very good even with its xtalk. From my 2.4 meter, the HW50 3D blu rays look good, but im too close, picture looks a touch soft, even with RC on. Optimal distance at +2.6m the picture looks so much more clear and "native".
However at that distance the HD33 and TW1070 helped by the s790's RC, looks fantastic. Always looking like a perfect clear window to the world.
In 2D both DLP's are fairly noisy. And the blacks are very grey. Most people would be ok with it, some would hate it. My line of thinking is keep your 50in plasma to get the best out of 2D blu rays. A big image on these DLP's looks great, but it does not compare to a TV. But have the projector on a pull down ceilinf screen for 3D movies, as the quality is far superior. Certainly good for watching 2D movies a second time around for the big screen experience or when you have lots of family visiting, but can't match a good TV.UPDATE:
After much weaking i managed to get the 3D image of the W1070 about 10% brighter and almost as vibrant as the HD33.
Lamp = Normal
Gamma = Benq
Brilliant Colour = Off
In Colour Temperature Fine Tuning:
Red Gain = 124
Green Gain = 111
Blue Gain = 125
All colours GAIN to "51"
All colour SATURATION to "55"
Im really happy with this tweak, im no colour expert, but it brightnes the image and makes it much more contrasty without overly clipping the whites.Gaming 2d & 3D Upscaling for Xbox and Ps3 games (Halo 4, Killzone 3, Super Star Dust HD &Motor Storm Apoc):
2D gaming, all projectors do a very good job, fast FPS games i can headshot very well with them all. TheW1070 & HW50 being better than the HD33 because of lower input lag. Colour wise they are all very good. Detail wise the HW50 with reality creation produces a more detailed image. BUT, oddly the W1070 produces such a smooth yet sharp image its wonderful. Its hard to explain, its like the aliasing is less or smoothed out. I'll have to do more gaming conclude. But in Super Star Dust i can say in 2D mode the W1070 looks pixel for pixel perfect. Its very good.
3D: HD33 is terrible. Blurry and washed out colours, terrible gaming lag which seems to be +100ms . HW50es, extremely good, both 2D and 3D lag seems exactly same. 3D gaming let down by xtalk.. Much better contrast and colours than HD33. The W1070 however, i can't believe im saying this, but set the sharpness to "15" and its better than both. Ramp the colours saturation up and it almost matches the HW for colours and contrast. And thats a feat considering the W1070 is claimed at 10,000:1 while the sony is supposed to be 100,000:1! Where the W1070 beats them both, its upscaling is near perfection! Playing SSD HD in 3D, unscaled from 720p to 1080p, with sharpness at "15", it almost looks pixel perfect! As if the game is running in its native resolution! It looks even better than the HW50es. Before this only the Sony HMZ-T2 could produce such a defined 3D image. And there's something magical about the W1070, the 3D games are only 720p, but its upscaling is so good, that even on a 85in screen.... the image appears anti-aliased where needed, yet pixel perfect where you want it, hence the sames look like how they should if that makes sense? SSD and Killzone 3 were a delight in 3D, and ive never enjoyed Killzone in 3D. Even on my HMZ-T2, its not as good as the W1070. The W1070 makes killzone so nice the usual complaints about its resolution drop dont apply so much. Amazing.
2D Gaming: HW50es Best, W1070 & HD33 tied.
3D Gaming: W1070 Best, HW50es 2nd, HD33 3rd.3D Pop-out & Depth & xtalk:
HW50 is the weakest of the three, bad xtalk. Reviews says minimal xtalk and when it appears its does not draw one out of the movie. I say the opposite, i find it extremely annoying in movies, not so annoying in gaming. Movies is about image quality, so even the smallest xtalk draws me out of it and downgrades the experience & image quality.
Both HD33 and W1070 are xtalk free 99% of the time, only when i tilt the glasses to extreme angles do i see a tiny bit. But this is extremely faint and rare.
3D depth on the sony just slightly better in default , "middle Setting". Sony has the ability to adjust the depth backwards and forwards. And for once this feature actually works! The forwards depth definitely brings objects closer to the viewer and the backwards adjustment increases the sense of depth where its x2 as good as both the DLP's. HW's middle setting has the least xtalk going outside of that setting results serious xtalk unacceptable. Its a shame because it gives an glimps at how much depth can be achieved with 3D, a real pity as it really is great. Both HD33 and W1070 appears more or less exactly match. But my nod goes to the HD33 as i believe the image has this ever so slight increased contrast that helps define depth of objects. But as i said, its so slight and so slight i may have just imagined it because im very used to the HD33 image. Either way users will love the 3D clarity & depth of either the HD33 or W1070.
Popout - all the 3D projectors have good pop-out. Now, most buyers are disappointing by pop-out because simply put the only way TV manufactures can show a TV doing 3D is to do those silly pictures where the object is flying outside of the TV, it never happens like that, thus people get disappointed. The further one is away from the screen the more pronounced the pop-out and depth is. Last night i was watching Turtles Tale in 3D, its amazing. Fantastic depth, but i thought to myself the Pop out is not that good. So i did a test and reached out at objects in scenes where things pop out, and surely theres certainly great pop-out. My screen is 2.4 meters away, my arms reach is 60cm. When items "popped out they where virtually within my 60cm arm reach (so they are popping out 1.8m in front the screen). In some cases in that movie im reaching 30cm in front of me to grab fishes. So pop out is definitely there. Its just when you sit very close to a 3D display, its not obviously happening as you are focusing so close everything else nearby is out of focus, giving you no point of distance percetion. Only when you sit further back can your eyes focus on the pop out objects and depth objects within the same focus, this you have a visual reference for how far something is "popping out". I sit 2.4m which is too close for good pop-out, but depth is very good.
HD33 has better depth and popout than W1070. Its hard to describe or even know why, but it has and i have checked abd doubled checked. For reasons unknown the sepration and layer of 3D on the HD33 is so much more defined than the W1070. Don;t get me wrong the W1070 has very good 3D, but at times you can easily forget the movie is 3D as the effect is too weak at times.
For both Popout and Depth HD33 best, then W1070 2nd, HW50es 3rd. Saying that i want to make it clear that the depth and 3D on the HW50es is actually stronger, but its ghosting and Xtalk detracts from the experience for me any and hence i placed it last.Rainbows:
HD33 has not rainbows in 3D mode, never, at least for me. The W1070 shocked me initially because it did! But i think as the projector warmed up after 20mins they where nowhere to be seem. *UPDATE: Even after a warmup the W1070 definitely has rainbows in 3D mode which some may find annoying/unacceptable. But it happens much less frequently than in 2D mode.... i would guess about 1/4 less.*UPDATE:
My second W1070 unit, i have not noticed any rainbows in 2D or 3D. Thats very strange. As i use it over the next few days ill update this post.Conclusion:
So was the W1070 an upgrade in my eyes? Yes and no. My main concerns where, that it matched the HD33 for 3D and 2D. Sadly its 2D is image wise suffers from fizzing/crackles. In 2D the W1070 colours are actually more natural. Especially for skin tones. Its 3D effect is not as pronounced as the HD33, which i miss.
And my main reason for upgrading was better 3D input lag and upscaling, this is one area it destroys the HD33! I dare say in both 2D and 3D the lag is next to minimal. Easily as good as the best plasma TV i have owned, and possibly better still. On my first gaming session with it, with 3 tries i achieved 120millions points on super start dust in 3D, my old score on 3D TVs and HMZ-T2 headset was 80million. The only time i beat this score was my 3rd attempt using a GT750, i got 129million :P But as i said the GT750 image is terrible and had to go back.
And my last reason for the upgrade... was for a shorter throw lens that did not downgrade sharpness and resolution. And here again it excels. The lens looks like a toy, but its fantastic. The focus holds rock stead, its real easy to find the optimal focus point, which can;t be said got the HW50es.
I have not tried the optoma HD25, but i am assuming its going to have the exact qualities of the W1070, minus the lens shift and the short throw. I hear that the HD25 has a tiny edge over the W1070 in terms of colour vibrancy, contrast and black. That would be awesome. But for me its the shorter throw while maintaining the image quality i love about the HD33 that won the day.
And i want to add, its so dinky! It so easy to store away. How can something so small create such a stunning 3D image? Makes a mockery of highend projectors and their premium large lens and giant sized package & back breaking weight. For people who the HMZ-T2 did not work for, get this, since ive had it ive not touched my HMZ.
And lastly, for my smaller room, i am considering a smaller 72in grey HC screen. Because the W1070 has plenty brightness, and the grey will boost the black performance.... i hope, making this the ultimate 2D and most importantly 3D display
If you do intend to only use it for 2D, then i don't recommend it. The 2D image is just not good enough because of the fizzing. With bad content i find it unwatchable and the fizzing is sick inducing because it looks like peoples skin are fizzing with insects (especially on close ups). Turning off "brilliant colour" does reduce the fizzing a lot, but once you notice it you will always....
If you plan to use it mainly for 2D gaming, 3D movies and 3D gaming and the shorter throw is beneficial to you, then i highly recommend this projector. Its fantastic and as far as i have seen so far, unbeatable in these areas. As you see from my post, ive tried many top end projectors. And even they can't match this projector in gaming.Edited by 3DMamper - 4/17/13 at 1:20pm