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BenQ W1070 : DLP Full HD, 3D Ready with lens-shift for 1000$ - Page 247

post #7381 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post

...the only way to get no clipping was to also change the Bluray to output RGB.
I can confirm a similar experience. I would have to say that I get less clipping as opposed to none however. That said, selecting the PC option for HDMI really ruins the picture with an unnatural white haze, so I don't use it. I'll take the darker picture with better colors and live with the clipping for now.
post #7382 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by THe_Flash View Post

I can confirm a similar experience. I would have to say that I get less clipping as opposed to none however. That said, selecting the PC option for HDMI really ruins the picture with an unnatural white haze, so I don't use it. I'll take the darker picture with better colors and live with the clipping for now.

My experience exactly. I've resigned myself to the clipping for now, and in real-world usage (as opposed to calibration slides), am quite happy with the image produced.
post #7383 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

AMEN!! I watched Disney's "A Christmas Carol" on my father-in-law's 6 year old Panasonic 720p 52" plasma and couldn't believe how stunning the picture was. Because many scenes are very dark the much higher contrast of the Plasma gives the image a richness and depth that the cheap DLP projectors can't even come close to matching. On the other hand, watching the four Disney "Tinkerbell" movies over Christmas (yes, that's right) on the projector was simply stunning because of the brightly lit, saturated colors.

Unless you have the money (or throw distance) for a serious home theater projector there will be significant compromises.

Yeah, I have 2007 model plasma that has superior blacks than the 1070. If I watch JUST the projector for a while (or my cheapie 37" LCD), I start to get used to it a little bit and not mind it as much, but as soon as I watch something on my plasma and go back to the projector I'm frown.gif

Duh, of course plasmas have better blacks, if you buy an 800 dollar projector that can do a 1080p / 3D image at 130 inches, you can't really complain. I paid $1500 for my panny plasma in 2008, after a month of owning this BenQ, I sold it for 400 bucks. So my projector cost me about 450$, and has so far given me 2000 hours of trouble free operation, sitting 15 feet away.

Plasmas have better blacks than even commercial THX cinemas I think, and if you want a home PJ with better blacks, you need to spend at least double, but then you'll have much worse input lag and crosstalk in 3D (if you care about 3D). input lag is important for gamers.

I just installed the 1.08, I was hoping to hack some 1080p / 72hz with it but no luck.
post #7384 of 8507
I don't know of any projector that will equal some of the new Plasmas. Even a $5,000 projector might come close but still will not be there. The same is true for your local theaters projector. Texas Instrument the only maker of DLP chips does not have a real incentive to work on new chips since the market is not that large. Some home projectors like the expensive JVC's or Sony's do have better blacks but at a high cost. The good thing is that on most films other things are also important including color balance, sharpness, brightness and other things. The 1070 has most of these attributes at a price below $1,000. That is the reason why I own two projectors. I use the 1070 for most viewing and for 2D films with a lot of black scenes I use the JVC. Having said the above I feel that most people will be extremely happy with the 1070. How many people buy LCD sets which often don't have great blacks.
post #7385 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

AMEN!! I watched Disney's "A Christmas Carol" on my father-in-law's 6 year old Panasonic 720p 52" plasma and couldn't believe how stunning the picture was. Because many scenes are very dark the much higher contrast of the Plasma gives the image a richness and depth that the cheap DLP projectors can't even come close to matching. On the other hand, watching the four Disney "Tinkerbell" movies over Christmas (yes, that's right) on the projector was simply stunning because of the brightly lit, saturated colors.

Unless you have the money (or throw distance) for a serious home theater projector there will be significant compromises.

Yeah, I have 2007 model plasma that has superior blacks than the 1070. If I watch JUST the projector for a while (or my cheapie 37" LCD), I start to get used to it a little bit and not mind it as much, but as soon as I watch something on my plasma and go back to the projector I'm frown.gif

Duh, of course plasmas have better blacks, if you buy an 800 dollar projector that can do a 1080p / 3D image at 130 inches, you can't really complain. I paid $1500 for my panny plasma in 2008, after a month of owning this BenQ, I sold it for 400 bucks. So my projector cost me about 450$, and has so far given me 2000 hours of trouble free operation, sitting 15 feet away.

Plasmas have better blacks than even commercial THX cinemas I think, and if you want a home PJ with better blacks, you need to spend at least double, but then you'll have much worse input lag and crosstalk in 3D (if you care about 3D). input lag is important for gamers.

I just installed the 1.08, I was hoping to hack some 1080p / 72hz with it but no luck.

I'm not complaining, and I was in no way saying this projector should be comparable to a plasma (in terms of contrast) or was I expecting it to be. This projector is phenomenol and I don't regret buying it for a second. I was replying to some posts that were referring to black level and how it compared to a plasma.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
post #7386 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

Plasmas have better blacks than even commercial THX cinemas I think,,,,
An interesting thing, this: What is the "standard" for Home Theater viewing?

You would think that the standard would be.... the local cinema house, not a plasma display. George Lucas and his THX regime would certainly say so.

Do you like that blinding LED brilliance that makes you reach for the shades? THX will say that it's way over the 16-fL brightness "standard." But if you like it, go for it. Besides, that modest 16-fL level is more of a practical consideration for the limits of projection illumination in a large theater.

Like that black-hole Kuro plasma darkness? You will rarely see that in a moviehouse with the limitations of ambient lighting and cinematography. Contrast ratios in the cinema are nowhere near those of flatpanel displays. So what?

"Standards" are fine for keeping color hues somewhat consistent between displays. But even color level is subjective. Want more color? Crank up the Saturation. Want more pop and luminance? There's the Contrast knob. Want less shudder during camera motion? Switch on the Frame Interpolation, if you have it.

In reality, the "standard" is whatever you think it should be. And by now most people here have been through several generations of display technology and have become aware of what they like and don't like.
post #7387 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post

Are you saying you get no clipping when you output YCbCr from your bluray and input PC Signal on the projector? I'm pretty sure I still got clipping when I did that, the only way to get no clipping was to also change the Bluray to output RGB. And my Bluray player is not known to clip with other projectors, and reviews identify the W1070 as clipping, so I'm pretty confident the issue is our projector rather than my player.

No, it is definitely not the projector. Here is a trusted review at http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/projectors/projectors-reviews/benq-w1070-projector/all-pages.html that stated:

"When using the HDMI input, color and tint controls are disabled, so unless you have calibration equipment, all that you will be configuring on the BenQ are the brightness, contrast, and sharpness controls. Setting those is much easier when Whiter-than-White and Blacker-than-Black are visible, but those are clipped by default. They can be made visible by setting the HDMI Mode to PC from Auto, which I would recommend doing.

I'd also recommend sending all your content in the YCbCr 4:4:4 colorspace. Using 4:2:2, the BenQ used lower quality filtering on chroma detail, and the timing was misaligned by half a pixel. Using RGB produced similar results, but 4:4:4 was handled properly and should be used if possible."

I saw a couple of other reviews remarking about the clipping but I am sure they were not aware to change the settings. I am using an Oppo player and there is no clipping. Switching between PC and Video settings and comparing the image is meaningless without calibrating, the Brightness and Contrast settings will need to be set at different values to produce a similar appearance for the different modes. I don't understand why you said you are "pretty sure" that you were still getting clipping, if you are using a calibration disc, clipping levels above 235 will be obvious because you will not see the bars from 235 to 255 no matter how much you adjust Contrast.

Is your projector connected directly to the player? An AV receiver can also limit the range of signals passed through it.
post #7388 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

Duh, of course plasmas have better blacks, if you buy an 800 dollar projector that can do a 1080p / 3D image at 130 inches, you can't really complain.

To be clear, I don't think anyone expects the W1070 to have better blacks than a good plasma. My point was simply that on dark scenes the two aren't even in the same universe. (And just so you know for future posts, the word "Duh" is very offensive.)

Offensive how? It means precisely what it's supposed to mean, that comparing this projector to a plasma in terms of black levels was obviously inappropriate to the point of being absurd, which you yourself just admitted. Saying absurd, impertinent things is likely to earn a few well-deserved "duhs" on the internet, that's just the way it is.

I'm a huge fan of plasmas too, I just think this BenQ at both the price and numerous other benefits, is in a different universe in terms of dollar-for-dollar value. It's like having your own theater, literally. For the ticket price of 40 commercial movie screenings, you can own one yourself that you can watch for 6000 hours before replacing a bulb. So what if the black levels are inferior, they are also inferior to a plasma in a commercial cinema as well, and that's like comparing apples to spaceships. 6000 hours for 800$ when movies are like 15$ for an hour and a half, is 13 cents per hour, compared to 7.50 an hour at a movie theater. It's 57 times better value to buy your own projector than seeing the same movie at the cinema. Owning a plasma cannot compare to a projector at any available size, it's a different market entirely, a different "universe" as you put it.

The Benq gives me a picture size six times the size for 1/2 the price I originally paid for my plasma, and has very low lag for gaming as well, especially in 3D it looks incredible (though only at 720p, I tried overclocking this puppy to support better Hz in 3D framepacking, I wonder if SBS 60hz / 1080p is the best way to game on this monitor. Probably. I might try to make a custom rez and up the Hz at bit, to like 72hz or so).

Does anyone here know if you make a custom widescreen resolution in windows, from the basis of a 1080p base resolution, if the signal still uses the same 1080p/60 bandwidth? That would be dumb, but I'm guessing that's how it's done so that the signal always remains as if it there 1080p/60 in 16:9, and the black pixels are still transmitted over the wire. Because if they aren't, then the Hz should be uppable, perhaps with CRU and/or firmware hacks. I'm going to try 720p / 120hz tonight, and then maybe 900p / 72hz which has identical bandwidth (unless the 900p signal from my PC is actually just a 1080p signal with black in it).
Edited by RLBURNSIDE - 1/18/14 at 2:34pm
post #7389 of 8507
Its all about the khazi :-)

I have some peculiar memories concerning them movie theaters, last time I attended one, was late in the spring 1977.
I might have had one or two visits later on, but thats well over ten years ago.

So my Benq 1070 at first indeed resembled these films of that 1970 age, like Saturday Night Fever, the Deep and Airport 77. Now that I am beginning to learn how to adjust it, even todays movies, like Riddick, Hobbit and Elysium looks contamporary, well that Elysium reminded me more of the style of A Bridge Too Far....

The reason why I got me this hometheatre, is my kidneys, or lack of. I had them replaced a few years ago. Thats why this small house is ever important. And I hate wandering out of a big screen movie theatre just to empty that small pint that bothers me so.

So, for me and my condition, this big screen at home is the best that has happened ever, I was thinking of it ten years ago, then it was way too expensive.

This Benq 1070 and a "cheap" Grandview 106" manual screen, I can of my whole heart recommend to everyone, this is indeed a really big adventure waiting for you! I cannot see any bright future for them old tellies now, all the time such high quality projectors can be bought so cheap in a store near you....
Edited by dryasanne - 1/18/14 at 4:40pm
post #7390 of 8507
Blacks - schmacks... my Panny plasma gives me blacks -- my 1070 gives me a 100" pic spectacularly. biggrin.gif
post #7391 of 8507
So lets keep off this khazi for a while, lets shake hands :-)

Handshaking, hdmi. Reviewers tell me that Benq w1070 has slow handshaking. What does that mean ?? What should I put it on ?
post #7392 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by dryasanne View Post

So lets keep off this khazi for a while, lets shake hands :-)

Handshaking, hdmi. Reviewers tell me that Benq w1070 has slow handshaking. What does that mean ?? What should I put it on ?

Basically when you're switching between inputs or loading up a blu ray (on the ps3 anyway) the projector will "search for source" for a few seconds and will flash into a blank blue screen. It slows things down a bit, but it's not a big deal to me at least.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
post #7393 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

and will flash into a blank blue screen.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

Interesting.......my screen turns Black (ish) ................ really a dark grey. It won't display plasma blacks. (jk)

BTW, what does Khazi mean? as in komma Khazi?
post #7394 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renron View Post

Khazi?


Shithouse....
post #7395 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by dryasanne View Post

So lets keep off this khazi for a while, lets shake hands :-)

Handshaking, hdmi. Reviewers tell me that Benq w1070 has slow handshaking. What does that mean ?? What should I put it on ?

One thing I noticed when I went from 1.05 firmware to 1.08 was the "handshake" time was cut in half.  Now it's about 3-4 sec to switch sources (both of my sources are pcs)

post #7396 of 8507
I just ordered my screen and mount.
post #7397 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint723 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dryasanne View Post

So lets keep off this khazi for a while, lets shake hands :-)

Handshaking, hdmi. Reviewers tell me that Benq w1070 has slow handshaking. What does that mean ?? What should I put it on ?

One thing I noticed when I went from 1.05 firmware to 1.08 was the "handshake" time was cut in half.  Now it's about 3-4 sec to switch sources (both of my sources are pcs)


1.06 addressed the handshake issue, it says, like you did, a noticeable change.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
post #7398 of 8507
This is probably a stupid question but I'm looking to upgrade from my Sanyo Z4 to a new sub $1k projector. I mainly watch hockey/football, movies and some gaming. 92 inch screen at about 9ft. Will I see a significant improvement going to the W1070? Trying to justify picking one up when my bulb hasn't burned out yet(at about 2500 hours).
post #7399 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

1.06 addressed the handshake issue, it says, like you did, a noticeable change.

Hmm, now Im really in a bad spot, my Benq 1070 is manufactured in June 2013. And it is 1.05.
To upgrade it, well if I cant do it by myself, I am stuck, to send it out of question frown.gif
post #7400 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldlostcory View Post

This is probably a stupid question but I'm looking to upgrade from my Sanyo Z4 to a new sub $1k projector. I mainly watch hockey/football, movies and some gaming. 92 inch screen at about 9ft. Will I see a significant improvement going to the W1070? Trying to justify picking one up when my bulb hasn't burned out yet(at about 2500 hours).

I owned a Z4 years ago and you will be shocked at the difference with the 1070.
post #7401 of 8507

I had an interesting experience today.  But first a back story.  I've had the w1070 a while now, 8 months or so.  I have it on BOC with a 127" image.  Throw was 11'1" to the lens, that's as far back as I could go in my room   That throw and picture size put my zoom about 3/4 of the way to max.  I was very happy with the 2d picture but recently I bought some 3d blu-rays and was disappointed with the brightness of the picture in 3d.

 

So I've been aware that the projector is the brightest at max zoom, but I didn't think it would be that noticeable.  Today I moved my Pj 7 inches closer to the screen and at max zoom it has the same picture size, 127".  I was blown away by how much brighter it looked in 3d.  According to the projectorcentral calculator this is only a brightness increase of 1FL but I feel like 1FL would not be that noticeable.  After calibrating contrast and brightness again, I noticed that black levels in 2d did suffer but I guess that's a trade off I am ok with.

 

So guys if any of you are hurting for lumens this may be an option.


Edited by flint723 - 1/19/14 at 9:45pm
post #7402 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaka2 View Post

No, it is definitely not the projector. Here is a trusted review at http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/projectors/projectors-reviews/benq-w1070-projector/all-pages.html that stated:

"When using the HDMI input, color and tint controls are disabled, so unless you have calibration equipment, all that you will be configuring on the BenQ are the brightness, contrast, and sharpness controls. Setting those is much easier when Whiter-than-White and Blacker-than-Black are visible, but those are clipped by default. They can be made visible by setting the HDMI Mode to PC from Auto, which I would recommend doing.

I'd also recommend sending all your content in the YCbCr 4:4:4 colorspace. Using 4:2:2, the BenQ used lower quality filtering on chroma detail, and the timing was misaligned by half a pixel. Using RGB produced similar results, but 4:4:4 was handled properly and should be used if possible."

I saw a couple of other reviews remarking about the clipping but I am sure they were not aware to change the settings. I am using an Oppo player and there is no clipping. Switching between PC and Video settings and comparing the image is meaningless without calibrating, the Brightness and Contrast settings will need to be set at different values to produce a similar appearance for the different modes. I don't understand why you said you are "pretty sure" that you were still getting clipping, if you are using a calibration disc, clipping levels above 235 will be obvious because you will not see the bars from 235 to 255 no matter how much you adjust Contrast.

Is your projector connected directly to the player? An AV receiver can also limit the range of signals passed through it.

I am feeding the projector directly from a Panasonic DMP-BDT210 Bluray player. I checked tonight, inputting PC Signal still clips, in order to not clip I have to output RGB also. Others on this forum suggest the same is true with Oppo players, and also that the Panny doesn't clip with other projectors.
post #7403 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by dryasanne View Post

Hmm, now Im really in a bad spot, my Benq 1070 is manufactured in June 2013. And it is 1.05.
To upgrade it, well if I cant do it by myself, I am stuck, to send it out of question frown.gif

Follow the directions carefully it is not that hard to do the upgrade.
post #7404 of 8507
I bought Mitsubishi HC8000 after I bricked my W1070 and needed to change motherboard. I used HC8000 for a while in 2D only and wasnt impressed.After I got W1070 back and switched from HC8000 to W1070 in the middle of 1080i live soccer game, my brothers laughed at how much better W1070 looked, almost day and night. I tried to tweak HC8000 to look better but couldnt.
W1070 brightness and sharpness made a huge difference , it was like being there in the stadium. Then I tried BD The Dark Night, again sharpness was noticeable better, HC8000 had a cleaner picture, like a high end Sony 55HX929 TV that I had before. I tweaked sharpness and Noise Reduction on W1070 briefly, I think noise has improved.

I was projecting on 100" 1.1 gain screen and room has bright wall, ceiling and floor.

My new replaced motherboard came with 1.07 firmware. HDMI input has been fixed and its now stable. I am not sure if picture has improved too,but I am more impressed now than ever since I bought it.

The other good thing about W1070 is it can be used worldwide. HC8000 couldnt play 1080i 50Hz smoothly, judder was like watching 3D movie without glasses, almost unwatchable.
post #7405 of 8507
I have a question on mounting. With the benq calculator it tells me 1' 3" from ceiling. Now that has to be center of lens correct? Then distance to screen is from screen to lens or front of projector? As the lens sits about an inch inside the projector. I attached a picture from the calculator. The projector is being mounted upside down from a custom shelf then using the peerless mount with the gears.

post #7406 of 8507
Here's whats possible with a properly calibrated W1080ST on a 120" DIY Spandex screen! wink.gif
There's a bit more detail in the DIY screen forum for those interested.

I took some more shots with the projector properly calibrated now and with a bit more work done on the screen.
I made the screen black surround from black plush car carpet from a 1M wide strip and 3M long. I cut it into strips to fit around the edge of the screen and double sided velcro'd it on.

Here's some shots to show off the calibration and the contrast, dynamic range, colour saturation and some shots of my screen construction. Sorry its hard to photograph the back of the screen now its all mounted.
I used a Canon 5DMk II with 16-24mm F2.8 lens mounted on tripod. I took 2 shots of each still, one with camera measured exposure which sometimes over exposed and 1 shot with 1 stop under exposure which was more representative of what I saw in terms of brightness and colour. Most of the shots I have posted here are the 1 stop under shots.
You will occasionally see rainbow effect in some of the shots but it is never visible to the naked eye.


Here's some oblivion shots. This is one of my favourite films for checking contrast and colour due to its excellent transfer quality and consistency with colour balance from shot to shot.
First off though here's my black level calibration and SMPTE colour calibration from DVE.

DVE















Oblivion shots


































Toy Story from WoW


Up from Wow


Another from Wow


Room Shots




Behind the screen




post #7407 of 8507
Looks great! Are you able to see blacker-than-reference-black and whiter-than-reference-white, and if so, what Bluray output and projector input settings did you use to be able to get our projector not to clip? As lots of folks and reviews have reported, our projector clips in standard settings, some report being able to get it not to clip by setting it to input a PC Signal, for me and others it still clips unless we also set our Bluray players to output RGB. And that combination seems to significantly degrade the image.
post #7408 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post

Looks great! Are you able to see blacker-than-reference-black and whiter-than-reference-white, and if so, what Bluray output and projector input settings did you use to be able to get our projector not to clip? As lots of folks and reviews have reported, our projector clips in standard settings, some report being able to get it not to clip by setting it to input a PC Signal, for me and others it still clips unless we also set our Bluray players to output RGB. And that combination seems to significantly degrade the image.

Yes the projector will display blacker than black and whiter than white when using a good player.
Im using a PS3 and a surface pro 2 for playback with Jriver MC19.
Both are using HDMI with YCbCr colour space and hdmi video mode, not PC mode.
Most people are probably running way more contrast than you actually need as it is a real light cannon and is still giving me 18fc in eco mode with contrast set to 38 and brightness at 48.
One thing I will say is that the blacks will also crush with contrast set too high.
The setup I have now was reached after many hours of calibration with different software and test material. It has that film look but still with great POP from the screen.
post #7409 of 8507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatboy69 View Post

Yes the projector will display blacker than black and whiter than white when using a good player.
Im using a PS3 and a surface pro 2 for playback with Jriver MC19.
Both are using HDMI with YCbCr colour space and hdmi video mode, not PC mode.
Most people are probably running way more contrast than you actually need as it is a real light cannon and is still giving me 18fc in eco mode with contrast set to 38 and brightness at 48.
One thing I will say is that the blacks will also crush with contrast set too high.
The setup I have now was reached after many hours of calibration with different software and test material. It has that film look but still with great POP from the screen.

If you're getting non-clipped BTB and WTW in video mode with our projector, as best I can tell you're unique. The videophile reviews of this projector suggest consistent clipping in that mode, and that's certainly my experience. I have a good Panasonic Bluray player that is not known to clip with other projectors, and I know others on this forum with Oppo Bluray players (which must surely qualify as good) have the same clipping experience I do. And yes, the clipping occurs in eco mode with contrast and brightness anywhere in the range (though you've certainly got your contrast set lower than I do or than I've seen anyone else recommend).
post #7410 of 8507

I never got the idea of projecting it on the black screen. Is this better than the white background

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