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HDHomerun Prime (cablecard) recording with time warner cable & "copy none" protection.. help!

post #1 of 28
10/25/12 at 12:34pm
Thread Starter 
Edit: I meant "Copy once" and not Copy None but seems I cannot edit the title.

Hello all,

I recently decided to take the plunge into the cablecard world and now that the installation nightmare is over (TWC sent me a single stream cable card 3times in a row, a bad tuning adapter, etc) I have now run into another problem:

It seems TWC sets almost *everything* to copy once. So if I record a tv show (say Restaurant: Impossible in HD on foodnetwork) on my main computer (with 4TB free HD space) I cannot watch it on any other computers in my home. It is limited to the computer it recorded on or xbox media extenders.

Is there a solution to this? I've googled this and pretty much what I've found is "NO". I'm willing to re-encode the recorded .wtv but seems that might be illegal and/or impossible. I've looked into making the other computers (bedroom, htpc) act as "extenders" but that seems a no go too. I've tried researching recording software other than wmc but that seems moot as this "copy none" bit is set by timewarner cable, not wmc.

All I want to do is watch recorded stuff on the other computers in my home. Is that not possible at all using time warner & a cablecard?

Thanks in advance AVS!
Edited by RationalBeing - 10/25/12 at 1:10pm
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post #2 of 28
10/25/12 at 12:57pm
Not for copy once content except through an extender.
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post #3 of 28
10/25/12 at 1:12pm
This sounds like Copy Once (also call Copy No More). Copy Never you could record it but it would expire within 90min.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control_Information
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post #4 of 28
10/25/12 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

This sounds like Copy Once (also call Copy No More). Copy Never you could record it but it would expire within 90min.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control_Information
Copy once and copy no more actually aren't the same thing. Copy Once (CCI 0x02) becomes Copy No More (CCI 0x01) after that one copy is made.
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post #5 of 28
10/25/12 at 4:32pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah im really trying to get an answer as to whether there is a workaround or not here. I believe twc sets everything to copy once and thats it.
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post #6 of 28
10/25/12 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalBeing View Post

Yeah im really trying to get an answer as to whether there is a workaround or not here. I believe twc sets everything to copy once and thats it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Not for copy once content except through an extender.

I already answered you.
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post #7 of 28
10/25/12 at 5:35pm
I've heard a work around is to play it back through an xbox extender and record the xbox output with an hdpvr or colossus. Not very practical for most things but it will often save space since that pvr is using h264.
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post #8 of 28
10/25/12 at 5:39pm
Extender = Xbox360, Ceton Echo (released soon), HP x280n (discontinued but work) or Linksys DMA2100 (also discontinued, but work).
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post #9 of 28
10/25/12 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by signcarver View Post

I've heard a work around is to play it back through an xbox extender and record the xbox output with an hdpvr or colossus. Not very practical for most things but it will often save space since that pvr is using h264.

Not going to work without a HDCP stripper. Xbox 360 output is HDCP encrypted.
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post #10 of 28
10/25/12 at 5:59pm
point a camera at the TV screen?
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post #11 of 28
10/25/12 at 6:12pm
Here's a hint...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STCKwxzL3VM Not that I'd suggest it...wink.gif

EDIT: Be sure to read the whole description...
Edited by olyteddy - 10/26/12 at 7:43am
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post #12 of 28
10/25/12 at 6:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by signcarver View Post

I've heard a work around is to play it back through an xbox extender and record the xbox output with an hdpvr or colossus. Not very practical for most things but it will often save space since that pvr is using h264.

I wonder if thats how torrents are created of encrypted content. That or people live in countries or places where their providers aren't setting the copy once flag.
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post #13 of 28
10/25/12 at 7:20pm
It is much more easier to rip a BD disc.
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post #14 of 28
10/25/12 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalBeing View Post

I wonder if thats how torrents are created of encrypted content. That or people live in countries or places where their providers aren't setting the copy once flag.

It is only 480p so that can't be it..
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post #15 of 28
10/25/12 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Not going to work without a HDCP stripper. Xbox 360 output is HDCP encrypted.

360's still have Component out (older ones do, at least). Still a PITA and not worth it IMO.
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post #16 of 28
10/26/12 at 5:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrinch View Post

360's still have Component out (older ones do, at least). Still a PITA and not worth it IMO.

Component output, or any other analog output, is automatically down converted to 520p. So you won't see HD picture.
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post #17 of 28
10/26/12 at 1:28pm
Instead of the xbox it's probably better to use an STB from the cable company and record using a HDPVR or colossus. And I'm pretty sure that the component signal from the STB is not down converted.
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post #18 of 28
10/26/12 at 1:33pm
CableCARD tuners work just fine. Why pay to rent a STB from the CableCo?
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post #19 of 28
10/26/12 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Component output, or any other analog output, is automatically down converted to 520p. So you won't see HD picture.

It's a dead horse, but the xbox outputs component in 1080i and 1080p (for TV's that support 1080p over component - rare). When I used component, it always outputted in 1080i.
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post #20 of 28
10/26/12 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrinch View Post

It's a dead horse, but the xbox outputs component in 1080i and 1080p (for TV's that support 1080p over component - rare). When I used component, it always outputted in 1080i.

FYI
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/944994
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post #21 of 28
10/26/12 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

CableCARD tuners work just fine. Why pay to rent a STB from the CableCo?
To circumvent the DRM using a HDPVR/Colossus. Cablecard is great if you only have few (or no) copy protected channels/shows, but it's not so good if most channels are protected, as it limits your options with regards to playback and system uprade. Losing recordings due to DRM issues is real. Just happened to me about a week ago after installing a number of new Intel drivers for my Ivybridge board. Since I only had a couple of protected recordings, I took the loss instead of restoring/reverting my system. But otherwise it would have been pretty bad.
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post #22 of 28
10/26/12 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Component output, or any other analog output, is automatically down converted to 520p. So you won't see HD picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

FYI
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/944994

'Doh - I stand corrected guys, thanks! smile.gif I was going off of just the general component output from the dashboard and not necessarily the extender interface.
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post #23 of 28
10/26/12 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico66 View Post

To circumvent the DRM using a HDPVR/Colossus. Cablecard is great if you only have few (or no) copy protected channels/shows, but it's not so good if most channels are protected, as it limits your options with regards to playback and system uprade. Losing recordings due to DRM issues is real. Just happened to me about a week ago after installing a number of new Intel drivers for my Ivybridge board. Since I only had a couple of protected recordings, I took the loss instead of restoring/reverting my system. But otherwise it would have been pretty bad.

Agreed. I have done this too. Fortunately I recovered the lost recordings by alternate means. This is why I say DRM is as porous as the US / Mexico border.
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post #24 of 28
10/26/12 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

FYI
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/944994

I haven't tried it lately, when I first commented, I was referring to something a friend did and at the time I couldn't see any difference in quality.

According to SD's support back in July:
Quote:
The actual requirements from CableLabs are:

- VGA outputs must be limited to 520k pixels if any sort of copy protection is in place. This means 960x540. Whoever came up with 960x520 clearly wasn't paying much attention to what they were doing.
- Other analog HD outputs (i.e. component) only need to be limited if the CCI Constrained Image Token is set. No one uses this. Literally the only time I've ever seen this set is on ESPN Goal Line/Buzzer Beater HD (channel 571) on Verizon FiOS. I have no idea why they have it set, but it is most likely a mistake.
- Any downrezzed content can be upscaled to fill the normal output 720p/1080i/1080p resolution. Unless you have a big TV, sit fairly close to it (within 1.5 times the screen diagonal measurement), and have good vision, you may not even be able to tell the difference without a side by side comparison.

Microsoft's information on this is sketchy at best with at least one glaring mistake, so it's anyone's guess what they're actually doing. The only way to know for sure would be to put up a test pattern and check to see what comes through.

Its my understanding, according to the article you linked to, that the xbox only does this when that token is set... is there a new requirement and/or is media center or the xbox now applying this token to any CCI 0x01 or 0x02 content and/or are more cable companies/stations/programs using that token?
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post #25 of 28
10/26/12 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by signcarver View Post

I haven't tried it lately, when I first commented, I was referring to something a friend did and at the time I couldn't see any difference in quality.
According to SD's support back in July:
Its my understanding, according to the article you linked to, that the xbox only does this when that token is set... is there a new requirement and/or is media center or the xbox now applying this token to any CCI 0x01 or 0x02 content and/or are more cable companies/stations/programs using that token?

When I was still at MS, for a while I tried to run down if the image was down-res'd to 520k or 520p as that article says. No one seemed to know if the article was in error or not, and no one cared enough to check.

I can't confirm that the Xbox does or does not downsample content on VGA. Just because the spec says one thing, I wouldn't assume that is the behavior. Maybe if I ever am bored I'll set up a test pattern and check it.
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post #26 of 28
10/26/12 at 6:49pm
And just how many of you have an extender, a HTPC and a capture card all in the same place? Seems like way too much of a hassle when you can record at 720p, probably the format of most of the HD cable channels anyway.
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post #27 of 28
10/26/12 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

And just how many of you have an extender, a HTPC and a capture card all in the same place? Seems like way too much of a hassle when you can record at 720p, probably the format of most of the HD cable channels anyway.

Within 10 feet of where I sit, I have about 5 InfiniTVs, 3 extenders, 1 TV, 5 monitors, and 2 HTPCs, but I may not be normal smile.gif
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post #28 of 28
10/27/12 at 9:23am
Eric, just the fact that we all here have CC tuners makes us not normal! I too have an xbox next to a one of my HTPC's where both are tied to a TV, depending on the situation I sometimes have both running and switch input on the TV rather than changing channels.
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