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Moving past 7.1 into 9.1/11.x/3D ObjectAudio in HT via AudysseyDSX/DolbyPLIIz/DTS Neo:X™/Auro-3D - Page 6

post #151 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezit73 View Post

Hi guys, here is a picture of my so far 9.1 denon 4311ci setup, need to figure out the heights still. I am liking the Wides though!

Very nice great room
post #152 of 819
I can' imagine going to 11 speakers in my room, let see I would have to suspend 802D from the ceiling smile.gif

For now 9.2 will work for me smile.gif
post #153 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Interesting, my replies yesterday to TMcG have been deleted while his anti-9.1/11.2 posts (like this one) have been allowed to stay in this thread. My reply to that very post, where I refute his factually incorrect statements and explain why more speakers are helpful, was apparently not allowed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post

maybe because he is a "news breaker", it is a question of an old boys club and favouritism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Mod - as the OP I'm requesting you PM me background of deleting posts.
I monitor them and did not see any disrespectful stuff.
I've reported people in my threads and others when needed....As you know.

For the record, I had nothing to do with it and am just as surprised the posts are gone.
post #154 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post

Even without any native material, it was noticeably more immersive than without (we compared), so I would now no longer consider going with a standard 7.1 set up.
That's kinda the history of surround sound, with the number of speakers usually outpacing the number of source channels, and the latter eventually catching up. For example: in the mid to late '80s, a couple of manufacturers felt that 2 surround speakers weren't enough to cover the entire surround field. Even without any native material, they found that adding a couple more surrounds made for more stable rear-vs-side directionality AND greater wrap-around envelopment. Just like the demo you attended.
post #155 of 819
Is anyone running wides in a narrow (less than 11') room? I have everything wired for 11.6 biggrin.gif and am in the process of building my own speakers to replace my Axioms (AE mated up with BMS). I ordered enough additional drivers to either build new bipolar surrounds, or finish the entire front stage with AE's and replace my current Axiom heights and then add some wides.

Any thoughts on this? Audyssey says that recommend the wides even more in narrower rooms, but................???
post #156 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Is anyone running wides in a narrow (less than 11') room? I have everything wired for 11.6 biggrin.gif and am in the process of building my own speakers to replace my Axioms (AE mated up with BMS). I ordered enough additional drivers to either build new bipolar surrounds, or finish the entire front stage with AE's and replace my current Axiom heights and then add some wides.

Any thoughts on this? Audyssey says that recommend the wides even more in narrower rooms, but................???

Hey bass, before I finished my seos I had wides with my energies and my room is 12 wide. I put them at the recommended 60 degree angle. I think they worked well as they are supposed to. Noticable positive effect on a lot of content, questionable on some as the voices would unnaturally stretch echo into the wides, and as others have mentioned it seemed to sometimes take away from the surrounds. I have yet to try wides since finishing my tempests and the sound upgrade is so massive I am not missing the wides. I will try them at some point using the energies as the wides, if I like it I may look into building some fusion 8,s for wides and heights. Over all I would say just try it with some speakers you have first, I think that will give you a good enough idea of how you like it.
post #157 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Any thoughts on this? Audyssey says that recommend the wides even more in narrower rooms, but................???
Wides can work in narrow rooms, as long as you get the angle right. Placing them at ±60° from centre could mean that they end up on the side walls, between your Fronts and Sides. Nothing wrong with that (don't assume Wides need to be on the front wall). Besides, once you calibrate levels and distances, all your speakers will sound like they're the same distance away.

How far away are you sitting from your centre speaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezit73 View Post

Noticable positive effect on a lot of content, questionable on some as the voices would unnaturally stretch echo into the wides, and as others have mentioned it seemed to sometimes take away from the surrounds.
By any chance were you using Audyssey DSX for the Wides?
post #158 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezit73 View Post



Hey bass, before I finished my seos I had wides with my energies and my room is 12 wide. I put them at the recommended 60 degree angle. I think they worked well as they are supposed to. Noticable positive effect on a lot of content, questionable on some as the voices would unnaturally stretch echo into the wides, and as others have mentioned it seemed to sometimes take away from the surrounds. I have yet to try wides since finishing my tempests and the sound upgrade is so massive I am not missing the wides. I will try them at some point using the energies as the wides, if I like it I may look into building some fusion 8,s for wides and heights. Over all I would say just try it with some speakers you have first, I think that will give you a good enough idea of how you like it.

I'm worried about the voicing thing to, but there really shouldn't be much in the way of voices coming out of them should there? If the wide channel derives it's info from the surrounds, it should all blend together without taking anything away from the front stage. I'd hate to spend the time any money setting up my AT screen only to have voices unnaturally pulled off the screen.

I'm also worried about killing the surround effects as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Wides can work in narrow rooms, as long as you get the angle right. Placing them at ±60° from centre could mean that they end up on the side walls, between your Fronts and Sides. Nothing wrong with that (don't assume Wides need to be on the front wall). Besides, once you calibrate levels and distances, all your speakers will sound like they're the same distance away.

How far away are you sitting from your centre speaker?
By any chance were you using Audyssey DSX for the Wides?

I have the wiring terminated right at 60 degrees which puts them about 3' down the side wall. If integrating them I would mount them higher up, just under my sofit, facing down and angled towards the listening position.

First row is 12' from the center with 2nd row around 17'.
post #159 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

I have the wiring terminated right at 60 degrees which puts them about 3' down the side wall. If integrating them I would mount them higher up, just under my sofit, facing down and angled towards the listening position.
That seems more like a good location for height speakers, at least if you want to get some overhead imaging rather than a tall soundstage (typical placement has heights above the mains).
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

First row is 12' from the center with 2nd row around 17'.
In that case, I would push the wides further away than 3 feet, to split the angle between your fronts and sides more evenly.
post #160 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post


Wides can work in narrow rooms, as long as you get the angle right. Placing them at ±60° from centre could mean that they end up on the side walls, between your Fronts and Sides. Nothing wrong with that (don't assume Wides need to be on the front wall). Besides, once you calibrate levels and distances, all your speakers will sound like they're the same distance away.

How far away are you sitting from your centre speaker?
By any chance were you using Audyssey DSX for the Wides?

My Wides were on the side walls at 60 degrees, As other had mentioned, I read from Audyssey that the distance does not matter, only the angle as the channel levels and delays will be adjusted accordingly.

 

Yes I was using DSX.

post #161 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post


I'm worried about the voicing thing to, but there really shouldn't be much in the way of voices coming out of them should there? If the wide channel derives it's info from the surrounds, it should all blend together without taking anything away from the front stage. I'd hate to spend the time any money setting up my AT screen only to have voices unnaturally pulled off the screen.

I'm also worried about killing the surround effects as well.
I have the wiring terminated right at 60 degrees which puts them about 3' down the side wall. If integrating them I would mount them higher up, just under my sofit, facing down and angled towards the listening position.

First row is 12' from the center with 2nd row around 17'.

Bass, don't get me wrong.....The voice thing happened maybe 1% of the time and may have had to do more with the content as I think it happened more with Directv and I can't recall it happening on Blu Ray. The surrounds being diminished a bit was more often noticeable but at the same time usually in that case it would be offset by the effect of the wider front sound stage. I would put them at the same height as your LCR and have them at least at the 60 degrees for the first row. Also remember if you set yourself up for this you can always turn the DSX wide and or heights on or off and just listen in a regular 5.1/7.1 mode for any given movie or mood. I would say while your still setting up your new space just run some wires temporarily to any extra speakers you may have and just test it out.

 

I personally am going to be building my false wall for my Tempests to go behind soon and while I am doing that I am going to run wires for wides and heights and will eventually build some smaller SEOS to place there just to have the option. Maybe it's one of those things were having the 4311 with 11.2 just feels sad only using 7.1 lol!

post #162 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

That seems more like a good location for height speakers, at least if you want to get some overhead imaging rather than a tall soundstage (typical placement has heights above the mains).
In that case, I would push the wides further away than 3 feet, to split the angle between your fronts and sides more evenly.

My heights are at 45ish degrees as recommended.

I think I will be fine at 60 degrees as I am running quadpolar (QS8's) side surrounds. If I push the wides much further back I think I will muddy up the imaging with the side and surround competing.
post #163 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezit73 View Post

Yes I was using DSX.
Your description seemed to fit. When you turn on DSX, it generates early reflections (that aren't in the original recording) of the content in the left and right channels, and sends those generated reflections to the wide and height speakers. It reduces the L/R speaker levels by 3dB, making the wides/heights more noticeable. If any dialogue is mixed into the L/R channels (rare, but happens), you'll get the echo-y sound you described. It also reduces all the surround speaker levels by 3dB and decorrelates the surround channels, making them quieter and more diffuse.
post #164 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

I think I will be fine at 60 degrees as I am running quadpolar (QS8's) side surrounds. If I push the wides much further back I think I will muddy up the imaging with the side and surround competing.
Other way 'round. I suggested pushing the wides further away (i.e., forward), not further back (towards the listening position). If your wides are 3' forward of your listening position and your fronts are 12' forward, that's a big gap between them. Since the wides are intended to stretch the soundstage, I was suggesting placing them closer to the fronts rather than close to the surrounds.
post #165 of 819
I just calibrated a theater in Dallas today with 18 speakers and 7 subs!

It had a lower 11 channel array and an upper 7 channel arrays, the second at ceiling level running off a completely separate pre-pro.

Quite the experiment. Sounded awesome as well. Can't say I've ever heard of someone doing two separate pre-pros and independent arrays!
post #166 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

I just calibrated a theater in Dallas today with 18 speakers and 7 subs!

It had a lower 11 channel array and an upper 7 channel arrays, the second at ceiling level running off a completely separate pre-pro.

Quite the experiment. Sounded awesome as well. Can't say I've ever heard of someone doing two separate pre-pros and independent arrays!
And no pic?
post #167 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Other way 'round. I suggested pushing the wides further away (i.e., forward), not further back (towards the listening position). If your wides are 3' forward of your listening position and your fronts are 12' forward, that's a big gap between them. Since the wides are intended to stretch the soundstage, I was suggesting placing them closer to the fronts rather than close to the surrounds.

I think we have a slight miscommunication. smile.gif

My wides are wired 3' from the screen wall, not 3' from the listening position.
post #168 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

My wides are wired 3' from the screen wall, not 3' from the listening position.
When you said "I have the wiring terminated right at 60 degrees which puts them about 3' down the side wall", I thought that was 3' down the side wall from your listening position. Turns out you had already done what I suggested before I even suggested it. Impressive.
post #169 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

I just calibrated a theater in Dallas today with 18 speakers and 7 subs!

It had a lower 11 channel array and an upper 7 channel arrays, the second at ceiling level running off a completely separate pre-pro.

Quite the experiment. Sounded awesome as well. Can't say I've ever heard of someone doing two separate pre-pros and independent arrays!

THAT IS AWESOME! GOOD FOR YOU!

I tossed around the idea with some of the members of my local HT group, but did not get an enthusiastic reception.

My idea was to use a single Blu-ray player with two HDMI outputs, and run both HDMI outs into two seperate processors. Theoretically giving 22.4???

It is so cool you did it. What equipment did you use?
post #170 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

I just calibrated a theater in Dallas today with 18 speakers and 7 subs!

It had a lower 11 channel array and an upper 7 channel arrays, the second at ceiling level running off a completely separate pre-pro.

Quite the experiment. Sounded awesome as well. Can't say I've ever heard of someone doing two separate pre-pros and independent arrays!
Were some of the speakers wired as arrays? What were the signals feeding each speaker or array?
post #171 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

This the movie? PG-13.....my 11 year old daughter might like this....I'll have to read reviews to see it's appropriateness for "young" kids

My wife and I often differ on movie choices, we have 9 years between us, and when she jumped at the chance to watch this I was skeptical. In her words "I would love to watch that!" She even went out to buy it for me to test with. Well, I just previewed the first five minutes, before we view it later tonight, and all I can say is "WOW!"

Yes the opening the DTS surround sound is cool, yes the wides are alive, and the front of the room feel massive like the ceiling blew away. But, what really rocks is the um, the fine acting. Yes these lovely young ladies do a fantastic job. Each one truly a skilled artist and athlete. Let's leave it there. wink.gif

As for the approriateness of the content for family viewing? I would be very uncomfortable watching this with my mom in the room, and if I was watching some of the scenes at work on a computer and someone walked in I might feel foolish. Far be it from me to be any authority what is good for one parent to show their child or allow in their family, I do not have children. I imagine kids watch a lot worse in a CSI episode discussing the rape and murder of strippers, but this is certainly some colorful content. I did enjoy it. And I do not think it would be weird for several of my buddies to watch this one and enjoy it too, especially based on how excellent the "spicy" dancing is. I don't want to sound preachy, but only certain moves depicted in this movie should be done by children, like the "clapping" maybe? On the other hand if my wife wants to take a dance class and learn the other "spicy" moves I would be more than happy to pay for those lessons! haha

Great effects in terms of the wideness of the sound track when music was playing. I am looking forward to watching the rest tonight, and reviewing the actual Neo:X net benefits.
post #172 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post

I am looking forward to watching the rest tonight, and reviewing the actual Neo:X net benefits.
Does the Blu-ray include an 11.1-channel 'sound check' in the extras, like the other Neo encoded soundtracks (Expendables 2, Dredd) did?
post #173 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Does the Blu-ray include an 11.1-channel 'sound check' in the extras, like the other Neo encoded soundtracks (Expendables 2, Dredd) did?

No, not as far as I can tell.
post #174 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post

My wife and I often differ on movie choices, we have 9 years between us, and when she jumped at the chance to watch this I was skeptical. In her words "I would love to watch that!" She even went out to buy it for me to test with. Well, I just previewed the first five minutes, before we view it later tonight, and all I can say is "WOW!"

Yes the opening the DTS surround sound is cool, yes the wides are alive, and the front of the room feel massive like the ceiling blew away. But, what really rocks is the um, the fine acting. Yes these lovely young ladies do a fantastic job. Each one truly a skilled artist and athlete. Let's leave it there. wink.gif

As for the approriateness of the content for family viewing? I would be very uncomfortable watching this with my mom in the room, and if I was watching some of the scenes at work on a computer and someone walked in I might feel foolish. Far be it from me to be any authority what is good for one parent to show their child or allow in their family, I do not have children. I imagine kids watch a lot worse in a CSI episode discussing the rape and murder of strippers, but this is certainly some colorful content. I did enjoy it. And I do not think it would be weird for several of my buddies to watch this one and enjoy it too, especially based on how excellent the "spicy" dancing is. I don't want to sound preachy, but only certain moves depicted in this movie should be done by children, like the "clapping" maybe? On the other hand if my wife wants to take a dance class and learn the other "spicy" moves I would be more than happy to pay for those lessons! haha

Great effects in terms of the wideness of the sound track when music was playing. I am looking forward to watching the rest tonight, and reviewing the actual Neo:X net benefits.

My wife just told me I am offically "old", and she said "I would(one day) let our teen daughter watch this no problem". Okay then. I'd like to point out the Cosby Show was on TV when I was growing up, so I now feel out of touch with a younger audience:eek:.

No doubt everyone will love the surround sound though! smile.gif
post #175 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

I just calibrated a theater in Dallas today with 18 speakers and 7 subs! It had a lower 11 channel array and an upper 7 channel arrays, the second at ceiling level running off a completely separate pre-pro. Quite the experiment. Sounded awesome as well. Can't say I've ever heard of someone doing two separate pre-pros and independent arrays!

Do you have pictures, that sounds awesome! What type of speakers all in wall?
post #176 of 819
Warning: after 99min of Step of Revolution, I need a new brain. Dialog was the poops. Very clear, I am referencing the script. Yuck. Actually it was far more clean than the first five min lead me to believe. Suffer at your own risk.

Wides were electric! Heights were blended nicely, very discrete, but certainly noticed.
post #177 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Do you have pictures, that sounds awesome! What type of speakers all in wall?

They were Mirage speakers, all on wall, most small.
post #178 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Were some of the speakers wired as arrays? What were the signals feeding each speaker or array?

Two independent systems basically; the lower one was running off a Yamaha receiver running it's proprietary DSP mode that adds 'presence' speakers into a stack of Emotiva amps, the upper one a Sherwood receiver running a Trinnov algorithm into another stack of Emotiva amps. Both fed the same HDMI signal from an Oppo Blu Ray player. We time aligned the top and bottom using AV lip sync adjustments as the Yamaha was 7ms ahead of the Sherwood.
post #179 of 819
I hate people like you because they introduce something that is relatively simple in concept so that now I have to go and try it out myself... smile.gif

Gary
post #180 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

Two independent systems basically; the lower one was running off a Yamaha receiver running it's proprietary DSP mode that adds 'presence' speakers into a stack of Emotiva amps, the upper one a Sherwood receiver running a Trinnov algorithm into another stack of Emotiva amps. Both fed the same HDMI signal from an Oppo Blu Ray player. We time aligned the top and bottom using AV lip sync adjustments as the Yamaha was 7ms ahead of the Sherwood.
I'd make an armchair suggestion: Have the Yamaha handle the upper speakers and the Sherwood below. The Yamaha's DSP Cinema modes can add a lot more flexibility in creating a spatial canopy.

Also, in the upper speakers, disconnect the center so that no dialog comes from the center-height speaker. That will only muddle the clarity. Then add 3 dB to the center channel of the main center speaker. Of course, you can try this right away without swapping the AVRs.
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