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Moving past 7.1 into 9.1/11.x/3D ObjectAudio in HT via AudysseyDSX/DolbyPLIIz/DTS Neo:X™/Auro-3D - Page 9

post #241 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

So for those of you that made the jump to 9.2 or 11.2 can you explain what the difference is like ?

I currently run 6.1 with a Denon 3312. I'm planning a new theater build for late summer. Of coarse I'm going to wire for it... But I'm questioning if I'll ever spend to get the extra speakers or not.

Worth it ?

In my opinion, I find the difference became one of immersion vs. excellent broadcast.

By that I mean, when I go back to 7.1 now I feel the soundstage is forward. When I listen in 11.1, I am there.

I have heard two other 11.1 systems. My friend from school has nearly identical gear, in an open concept basement, and I would say the difference is still as I described it.
post #242 of 819
Awesome thanks. Your running 11.2? What kind ?
post #243 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Awesome thanks. Your running 11.2? What kind ?

I am using a Marantz 11.2 capable processor, AV8801. I use three five channels amps, and biamp the front L/C/R. total of 14 channels. I brought my heights forward off the front wall for more pop and sizzle. Check out my signature thread for the build. "11.2 HT build"

I am using DTS Neo:X, and loving it.

I hope to get my second sub online soon, and make it a finished 11.2
post #244 of 819
Quote:
In my opinion, I find the difference became one of immersion vs. excellent broadcast.

I recently installed a Denon 4520, and I'm running 9.1 to start, using wide speakers. Also using Neo:X setting. It adds more immersion for sure, at least on the movies I've tried so far - Black Hawk Down and Zero Dark Thirty. I have a 2 channel amp coming, and then I will work on installing height speakers. I was so thrilled with the new Denon and wide speakers, I was going to skip the height speakers, but I'm an all or nothing sort of guy, so that was destined to not last long anyway. smile.gif
post #245 of 819
I am having a hard time planning and incorporting 11.2 into my theater build. Even if I don't always use it I want the option and if I fail to include it now I might regret it.
post #246 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I am having a hard time planning and incorporting 11.2 into my theater build.
Why are you having a hard time? Wides go between the fronts and sides, heights go above and outside the fronts. Do you have a diagram of your room?
post #247 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I am having a hard time planning and incorporting 11.2 into my theater build. Even if I don't always use it I want the option and if I fail to include it now I might regret it.

Do you have any photos or diagrams of where you are having difficulties placing speakers?
post #248 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I am having a hard time planning and incorporting 11.2 into my theater build.
Why are you having a hard time? Wides go between the fronts and sides, heights go above and outside the fronts. Do you have a diagram of your room?

The room is 32' by 24' wide. It's new Construction.

I guess what I meant is I am trying to incorporate the speaker placement into the design element so they look nice and go in the right spot. I'd build the room and the colums to support proper ideal speaker placement.

The AT screen will be about 30" from real wall and be a false screen wall. My LCR will be behind the AT screen. I'd imagine the heights would too - but could do on the outside of the screen up top too. I have 24' to work with and the screen is not going to be 24' wide.

The wides I would place where? columns like surround speakers but in front of the sides and between the side surround and the L+R on the outer walls ?
post #249 of 819
60 degrees to the sides, if I remember correctly. About the same position as frontmost side surround - if one uses multiple.
post #250 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post


The wides I would place where? columns like surround speakers but in front of the sides and between the side surround and the L+R on the outer walls ?

I placed mine on the columns. They also swing back out of the way, or can be infinitely adjusted to the correct angle.

This may work for you as a solution?

11.2
11.2
11.2
post #251 of 819
The room is not built yet. They start pouring the foundation next month hopefully. So I have lots of options. Right now I am just trying to understand where they go- and how to incorporate them into my design to look and sound great.

Thanks for all the feedback. I like that design^

I might do something like that.
post #252 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I guess what I meant is I am trying to incorporate the speaker placement into the design element so they look nice and go in the right spot. I'd build the room and the colums to support proper ideal speaker placement.
I would first figure out where I wanted the main row of seating to go. Then you can add additional rows in front and/or behind. Personally, I would put my main row at one of the 1/3rd divisions of room length (12'8" from the back wall) for smoother frequency response.

With the main listening position established, speaker placement becomes a matter of angles: front speakers between 45-60 degrees apart, wide speakers around 110-120 degrees apart, side speakers directly at your sides, back speakers spread at least 60 degrees apart behind you, height speakers as high up as possible and spread outside the mains. Notice the ranges, allowing you some placement flexibility rather than dictating strict locations.

After you've optimized speaker placement, you can figure out a way to hide them with decor (e.g., columns).
post #253 of 819
Do keep fronts in the 42-46 range if you intend to listen to music in the room, that's where stereo decodes the best. With wides there's less reason to put them wider than before for cinema use.
post #254 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post

Do keep fronts in the 42-46 range if you intend to listen to music in the room, that's where stereo decodes the best.
What do you mean by "decodes"?

Typically recommendation for stereo playback has always been to form an equilateral triangle with your speakers, meaning a 60 degree angle.

Where did you get the 42-46 range from?
post #255 of 819
I am so pumped about this!



Up here in Canada this a great move.

We love to download...love, love, love.

Sorry I am off topic.
post #256 of 819
The angle comes out of HRTF data. Same reason as NHT by default angled their baffles in by 21 degrees. 30 degrees is definitely wrong for the best possible psycho acoustic decoding of stereo material. That is, to make common signals as plausible center image as possible.

The best recommendation I have is to sit 1.18 times the distance inbetween tweeters from the line between them, that gives about 23 degrees. Making the on-axis lines cross in front of you may give you a more stable image off-center as you will move towards on-axis on the furthest-away when moving more off-axis to th closest and vice versa.

About decoding... In difference to the other components that really only have to do a transfer of signal (albeit may convert from digital to analog) as cleanly and undistorted as possible, the speakers on the other hand hand to take the twodimensional electric signals and TRY to turn these into a threedimensional sound. Speakers are decoders, the rest of the equipment are transmitters. Putting speakers at an angle that makes this feat easier to accomplish is fundamental for success.
Edited by Nightlord - 7/1/13 at 1:46pm
post #257 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post

The angle comes out of HRTF data.
Do you have a link to any of this data? Sounds interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post

Speakers are decoders...
Not arguing with your semantics, but that is the strangest use of the term I've ever seen.
post #258 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post

Do keep fronts in the 42-46 range if you intend to listen to music in the room, that's where stereo decodes the best. With wides there's less reason to put them wider than before for cinema use.

I don't listen to much music. It's probably 10% or less. But if I understand you correctly- I can place the R and L speakers not as far apart and still get great stereo and wide sound stage for movies because of the "wides" that are wider and create that effect.

Yes?
post #259 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I guess what I meant is I am trying to incorporate the speaker placement into the design element so they look nice and go in the right spot. I'd build the room and the colums to support proper ideal speaker placement.
I would first figure out where I wanted the main row of seating to go. Then you can add additional rows in front and/or behind. Personally, I would put my main row at one of the 1/3rd divisions of room length (12'8" from the back wall) for smoother frequency response.

With the main listening position established, speaker placement becomes a matter of angles: front speakers between 45-60 degrees apart, wide speakers around 110-120 degrees apart, side speakers directly at your sides, back speakers spread at least 60 degrees apart behind you, height speakers as high up as possible and spread outside the mains. Notice the ranges, allowing you some placement flexibility rather than dictating strict locations.

After you've optimized speaker placement, you can figure out a way to hide them with decor (e.g., columns).

My first row is planned at 12' from screen.

Second row probably 16' and third row about 21'. The bar area counter top behind that at 25'.

Your 12'8" idea is great. Does a false wall effect that? I plan to do AT screen 30" from the real front wall.

Your suggestions has helped me tremendously. So where abouts on the side wall would the wides go ?
post #260 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I don't listen to much music. It's probably 10% or less. But if I understand you correctly- I can place the R and L speakers not as far apart and still get great stereo and wide sound stage for movies because of the "wides" that are wider and create that effect.

Yes?

My experience confirms this. My L/R were mounted behind an acoustically transparent screen just inside the 16:9 masking position. This was a little narrower than I would have liked for unaided stereo sound stage. The wides made a big difference for music and opened up the sound stage considerably.
post #261 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post

I am so pumped about this!



Up here in Canada this a great move.

We love to download...love, love, love.

Sorry I am off topic.

Oops...I forgot the link...

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/touch/story.html?id=8557661
post #262 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I don't listen to much music. It's probably 10% or less. But if I understand you correctly- I can place the R and L speakers not as far apart and still get great stereo and wide sound stage for movies because of the "wides" that are wider and create that effect.

Yes?

My experience confirms this. My L/R were mounted behind an acoustically transparent screen just inside the 16:9 masking position. This was a little narrower than I would have liked for unaided stereo sound stage. The wides made a big difference for music and opened up the sound stage considerably.

This is a concern of mine, so thank you for the reassurance and feedback.
post #263 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

My first row is planned at 12' from screen.

Second row probably 16' and third row about 21'. The bar area counter top behind that at 25'.
Only 4 feet between your first and second rows? That's somewhat unrealistic for leg room (unless your guest are amputees). You might want to reconsider doing 3 rows AND a bar. Either do 3 rows or 2 rows and a bar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Your 12'8" idea is great. Does a false wall effect that? I plan to do AT screen 30" from the real front wall.
My mistake, 1/3rd of 32 feet is 10'8", not 12'8".

So that puts the main row at 21'4" from the front wall, 10'8" from the back wall (enough room for a bar with stools, giving you a pseudo 3rd row). Your overflow row can go around 6 feet in front of the main row. That might seem like a lot of space between rows, until people in the overflow (front) row recline back and people in the main (back) row raise their footrests. You don't want your guests kicking each other in the head (unless the movie is really boring).

BTW, I would move the false wall about a foot closer, so your front speakers can be at least 3.5 feet from the front wall and avoid boundry cancellations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

So where abouts on the side wall would the wides go ?
Considering your room width, placing the wide speakers on the side walls about 7 feet forward of the main listening position will give them the desired 110-120 degree angular spread. And this works no matter where the main seating ends up being.
post #264 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Only 4 feet between your first and second rows? That's somewhat unrealistic for leg room
4 feet works quite well in my theater. It's more legroom than a typical cinema. But that's only possible because there are no extendable footrests.
post #265 of 819
My first row is 4 reclining theater chairs

My second row is a couch flanked by two chairs (probably not recliners)

So second row design should save some space
post #266 of 819
I'll have to go measure mine now. I think I only have about 4' between my first and second and they are both recliners. I could have more but I scooted them up a bit due to my daughter sitting in the back row quite a bit and not quite having a tall enough riser in relation to screen height, or vice versa. cool.gif
post #267 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

I'll have to go measure mine now. I think I only have about 4' between my first and second and they are both recliners. I could have more but I scooted them up a bit due to my daughter sitting in the back row quite a bit and not quite having a tall enough riser in relation to screen height, or vice versa. cool.gif

The room is not built yet - but I'd appreciate the feedback. I thought 4ft was enough
post #268 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

The room is not built yet - but I'd appreciate the feedback. I thought 4ft was enough

I'll take a pic of mine later showing the amount of clearance with everything reclined.
post #269 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

My first row is 4 reclining theater chairs

My second row is a couch flanked by two chairs (probably not recliners)

So second row design should save some space
If the front row recliners are "zero clearance" type that makes a big difference to the second row space.
post #270 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post

Do keep fronts in the 42-46 range if you intend to listen to music in the room, that's where stereo decodes the best. With wides there's less reason to put them wider than before for cinema use.

Interesting and this data come from where? So the total angle should be less than 60 for front speakers hum!
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