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First DIY project for a guy looking to upgrade - multiple sealed 18s? - Page 9

post #241 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Okay. Yeah, sorry. My bad. I forgot you were going to do dual-opposed. Definitely a good idea so you don't have to swap out drivers.

No worries and obviously I agree, heh. As of now with the Crown, I'll for sure be running in 2 ohm stereo but who knows what my amp future holds, especially when I build more cabs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

And btw: chalk me up as one who would settle with "just" 625 watts per driver with the infinitely reliable and 50% less expensive Crown XLS 5000.
Just sayin'.
James

So here is the problem I see with running "only" one XLS5000. We have the following options: 2500/channel in 2 ohm stereo, 1800/channel in 4 ohm stereo, 3700 at 8 ohm bridged, or 5000 watts at 4 ohm bridged. If we have (4) cabinets either 2 ohm or 8 ohm total per cab, I'm not seeing a way to get a total 2 ohm load per channel or 4 ohm bridged. Sure, we could run them in 4 ohm stereo, but now we're down to 450/driver. Fail. Please do correct me if I'm missing something here:

2 ohms per cab X 2 in series = 4 ohm total per channel (8 ohms in parallel produces same result)
8 ohms per cab x 4 bridged = 8 or 2 ohms total

The second issue is that these amps are no longer available for 599 from unique squared. I picked mine up for 533 shipped back in January with a coupon and I still kick myself for not buying a second! The cheapest I've seen lately are in the 800 range - in this range I'd go right for the CV5000 which appears to be very similar. If anyone happens to see another XLS at a reasonable price PLEASE let me know as I've been looking anyway.

It's a shame the Inuke6000 is not 2 ohm stereo stable or bridgeable. frown.gif The LG clone FP14K would be perfect, but I'm skeeerrrredd of DOA. tongue.gif Any other viable options out there?
post #242 of 1005
Wire both drivers in each cab in a series, wire (2) cabs per channel in parallel:

4 + 4 = 8 ohms

8 + 8 / 8 = 4 ohms

4 ohms per channel, 1200 watts/4 = 300 w's per driver.


I routinely see used/like new XLS 2500's go for $500ish on ebay. Brandy new? No. Do I care? No.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 11/11/12 at 6:24pm
post #243 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Wire both drivers in each cab in a series, wire (2) cabs per channel in parallel: 2 ohms per channel.
2500 w's per channel, 625 per driver.
I routinely see used/like new XLS 2500's go for $500ish on ebay. Brandy new? No. Do I care? No.
James

Edit - Thinking about this. 2 (4 ohm) drivers in each cab in series = 8 ohms. 2 cabs @ 8 ohms each in parallel = 4 ohms? I'm probably having an idiot moment.

Even if 2 ohms per channel, going from 625 watts to 1250 is another +3db. In our world that is a big deal. biggrin.gif

Have you seen at 5000s around that price, selling?
Edited by Gorilla83 - 11/9/12 at 12:35pm
post #244 of 1005
^ I guess I'm operating under a couple assumptions that I know drives people crazy around here:

1. First, I thought you planned on (4) dual opposed at the end of the day? I don't know your room so that's a big factor, but will you ever need...excuse me...ever USE the extra 3 dbs? Personally, I'm not an overkill person. If something's dead, it's dead...spending more money and time to kill something that's dead makes no sense to me.

2. How much more output will you actually realize from these drivers beyond 6-700 watts? I think I'm the only one running one right now, and seeing I "only" have 550 going into it, I'm the wrong guy to ask how much it can take/what's left in the tank. Perhaps Josh could answer this. Graphs are great, but we know they're not infallible.

Hey brother, I'm not trying to talk you into anything, I guess I'm just saying I'd give your Crown a go first and see where you're at before dropping another $1000.

my 2% of a $.

James
post #245 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

1. First, I thought you planned on (4) dual opposed at the end of the day? I don't know your room so that's a big factor, but will you ever need...excuse me...ever USE the extra 3 dbs? Personally, I'm not an overkill person. If something's dead, it's dead...spending more money and time to kill something that's dead makes no sense to me."

Based on my history with the Captivators, yes, I will wind up using that 3db at times. My room is quite bass hungry and my current setup uses every bit of those 2500 watts for each sub. If you're standing back at the bar area cranking tunes (30-35 feet from the subs), the bass quickly diminishes unfortunately. frown.gif I think the biggest benefit to running 2 amps is that I'd be spreading the power demands over 2 20A circuits instead of just 1. I've tripped my 20A breaker on several occasions with just the 1 amp on the line. biggrin.gif I also think the (4) cabs will work out well since I can place them in the back of the room and distribute the bass more equally then just having the 2 subs up front like I do now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

2. How much more output will you actually realize from these drivers beyond 6-700 watts? I think I'm the only one running one right now, and seeing I "only" have 550 going into it, I'm the wrong guy to ask how much it can take/what's left in the tank. Perhaps Josh could answer this. Graphs are great, but we know they're not infallible.

This part is TBD. They're rated at 900 RMS and Josh seems to think they will/have take every bit of 1400 watts in ~4 cubes. Time will tell though, the VC's may be running a bit hot at those temps. wink.gif
post #246 of 1005
I thought the real reason for needing/wanting more power is to allow for eq down low which quickly hacks into the reserves. No as big of a deal with ported.
post #247 of 1005
4 drivers = 16 ohm mono, 4 ohm mono, 1 ohm mono , 2 ohm stereo, 8 ohm stereo

8 drivers= 32 ohm mono, 8 ohm mono, 2 ohm mono, 0.5 ohm mono, 16 ohm stereo, 4 ohm stereo, 1 ohm stereo

8 ohm mono with an xls5000 = 3600 w /8 drivers or 450w piece.
post #248 of 1005
^^^ the math is accurate
post #249 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

I thought the real reason for needing/wanting more power is to allow for eq down low which quickly hacks into the reserves. No as big of a deal with ported.

That's also a big plus as well!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

4 drivers = 16 ohm mono, 4 ohm mono, 1 ohm mono , 2 ohm stereo, 8 ohm stereo
8 drivers= 32 ohm mono, 8 ohm mono, 2 ohm mono, 0.5 ohm mono, 16 ohm stereo, 4 ohm stereo, 1 ohm stereo
8 ohm mono with an xls5000 = 3600 w /8 drivers or 450w piece.

Thanks Josh - I was second guessing myself. So 2 Crowns or 1 LG clone (or similar) it is!


Cut the inside and outside baffles cut! Dry fit enclosure minus outside baffles - haven't cut the inside of the brace panels yet, but it's shown in some of these to make sure the edges fit:

IMG_0844.jpg
IMG_0845.jpg
IMG_0846.jpg
IMG_0850.jpg
post #250 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Got a nice EARLY surprise an hour or so ago. I ordered these on Thursday and got a Saturday delivery?? Awesome service, PE!

I'm about out of time to work on these today, but I'll be cutting out the terminal panel hole tomorrow am. May even make it back over to Home Depot with any luck to pick up the panels for the second box. biggrin.gif

Test fit my inner and outer baffles and fits great! Not too bad for my first try I guess, heh.

IMG_0854.jpg
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post #251 of 1005
That's awesome! Seems like PE is eager to get these in the hands of aspiring builders. What are your box dimensions?
post #252 of 1005
I got it done...Haven't looked at everything yet but I think you are going to be happy with these. Its no UXL or LMS but using 2 evens the field as far as output. Response looks good and sensitivity is not bad. These are surprisingly rugged too. I put quite a bit of power into it and it didnt bottom. The motor just quits pushing the cone and compresses the output a lot before it gets in mechanical danger. Coil seemed to be fine with taking quite a bit thermally. Didnt look real in depth at the distortion yet.
post #253 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

That's awesome! Seems like PE is eager to get these in the hands of aspiring builders. What are your box dimensions?

Yeah I'm super happy with the delivery timeframe. The box exterior dimenions are 23w x 25h x 28 depth. Internal net volume is right around 7 cubes. Can't wait until tomorrow so I can do my terminal cutout and start getting some gluing done. smile.gif
post #254 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

I got it done...Haven't looked at everything yet but I think you are going to be happy with these. Its no UXL or LMS but using 2 evens the field as far as output. Response looks good and sensitivity is not bad. These are surprisingly rugged too. I put quite a bit of power into it and it didnt bottom. The motor just quits pushing the cone and compresses the output a lot before it gets in mechanical danger. Coil seemed to be fine with taking quite a bit thermally. Didnt look real in depth at the distortion yet.

Can't wait to see the full review on data bass. I'm excited to get these cabinets together and hear them for myself! They sound very promising (at least on paper) so we'll see how they do in my room in hopefully another week or so.
post #255 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Can't wait to see the full review on data bass. I'm excited to get these cabinets together and hear them for myself! They sound very promising (at least on paper) so we'll see how they do in my room in hopefully another week or so.

Hey brotha! Sorry I've been MIA on AVS. Wifey felt as thought I was getting a bit obsessive, so I told her I would just nix it all together. Easier said than done obviously... I'm not going to be posting as frequently, but you can count on me lurking.

Anyway, I got you a little present.

Hopefully you haven't splurged on box shoes yet. 4 sets are headed your way as soon as the post office opens.
20121110_205857.jpg
post #256 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Yo Austin! Good to hear from you man, thought you were on a long vacation or something. I guess that was accurate since you were on a vacation from AVS, LOL! biggrin.gif My wife feels the same way, but it's real hard to cut back on the lurking/posting, heh.

I actually haven't bought any feet yet, those look super nice! Let me know whatever postage winds up being and I'll throw some paypal your way.
post #257 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Yo Austin! Good to hear from you man, thought you were on a long vacation or something. I guess that was accurate since you were on a vacation from AVS, LOL! biggrin.gif My wife feels the same way, but it's real hard to cut back on the lurking/posting, heh.
I actually haven't bought any feet yet, those look super nice! Let me know whatever postage winds up being and I'll throw some paypal your way.

No way man, least I could do! Here is a quick reminder of how they look on the mammoths... Nice little finishing touch.
20121110_210001.jpg
post #258 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Got a nice EARLY surprise an hour or so ago. I ordered these on Thursday and got a Saturday delivery?? Awesome service, PE!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

That's awesome! Seems like PE is eager to get these in the hands of aspiring builders

Lookin' good Gorilla83!

For those curious, FedEx "home delivery" service, which includes any packages going to a residence that is under 70 lbs and under a large package dimension limit, will be delivered on Saturdays if the normal ground transport time lands on a Saturday. This doesn't happen for all delivery locations, but it does for most. For example, a 2 day shipment shipped on Thursday would typically be delivered on a Saturday.
Edited by Mark Seaton - 11/12/12 at 7:43am
post #259 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

No way man, least I could do! Here is a quick reminder of how they look on the mammoths... Nice little finishing touch.
20121110_210001.jpg

Nice man, that is much appreciated! We should try to get together again sometime soon and do some testing with our creations.
post #260 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Lookin' good Gorilla83!
For those curious, FedEx "home delivery" service, which includes any packages going to a residence that is under 70 lbs and under a large package dimension limit, will be delivered on Saturdays if the normal ground transport time lands on a Saturday. This doesn't happen for all delivery locations, but it does for most. For example, a 2 day shipment shipped on Thursday would typically be delivered on a Saturday.

Thanks Mark. Good info on the FedEx home delivery. Easily worth the 4.95 premium. smile.gif

First box is settling in now. Glued a d clamped. Man that PL premium is messy!

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th_3cd3b88250747aee5ebe60a08e00d04e.jpg

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post #261 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Hey brotha! Sorry I've been MIA on AVS. Wifey felt as thought I was getting a bit obsessive, so I told her I would just nix it all together. Easier said than done obviously... I'm not going o be posting as frequently, but you can count on me lurking.

We were beginning to wonder what happened. We had been busting on you since the GTG, but no response. Some of us had begun to wonder if you were still hung over or something. biggrin.gif
post #262 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

First box is settling in now. Glued a d clamped. Man that PL premium is messy!

It is indeed, but it adheres like just about nothing else. I used some on a sub-floor I put down in a bathroom, and does it ever have strong adhesive abilities!
post #263 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Flat pack #2 is alive and well. Whew I'm beat!

bff22ab50aa6f353a646bb6ec1b07940.jpg
post #264 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Flat pack #2 is alive and well. Whew I'm beat!

Suck it up, cupcake! It's time to make some progress. biggrin.gif
post #265 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Edit - Thinking about this. 2 (4 ohm) drivers in each cab in series = 8 ohms. 2 cabs @ 8 ohms each in parallel = 4 ohms? I'm probably having an idiot moment.
Even if 2 ohms per channel, going from 625 watts to 1250 is another +3db. In our world that is a big deal. biggrin.gif
Have you seen at 5000s around that price, selling?

Yeah ignore my dumbass error...duh. 4 ohms, obviously.

James
post #266 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Nice man, that is much appreciated! We should try to get together again sometime soon and do some testing with our creations.

Sounds fun bro. In that case I may have to purchase a few of those SI 18's and build a similar box to your dimensions, so we can make a direct comparison. Just for the Science of it!

Oh, and not to mention have my Clone fixed up and miniDSP settings on point so we can see what properly dialed in Ultras are all about in your space. Hell, if I have my way I'll hopefully have another pair of Ultras up and running by then... That way you wouldn't need to travel all the way out to Cali to visit Edogg to experience his quads.

Once we finish the testing, the real fun can begin! Quad Ultra's, 8 Dayton's and a few SI 18's all running in unison sounds like a real party!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

We were beginning to wonder what happened. We had been busting on you since the GTG, but no response. Some of us had begun to wonder if you were still hung over or something. biggrin.gif

Jim, my man... Yeah, I saw a few comments about me being a bit over eager with the remote among other things...haha. I let testosterone get in the way of me properly representing the DIY/LMS crowd, so I feel the need for a bit of redemption myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Flat pack #2 is alive and well. Whew I'm beat!

C'mon bro! I would have had all 4 boxes assembled and just waiting for my NASA glue to cure by now... Haha, just playing. Looking great man. What are your plans for your front baffle again? Not sure how much the surround on your Dayton sticks out, but when I made a grill, a single 3/4" recess made the grill coth rest on the surround. Just something to think about.
post #267 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Suck it up, cupcake! It's time to make some progress. biggrin.gif

Yeah, yeah, yeah. tongue.gif Had I not had other household crap to deal with they both would probably be glued and waiting to dry. mad.gif Oh well, I'll finish the first enclosure and start glue/clamping the second tonight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Yeah ignore my dumbass error...duh. 4 ohms, obviously.
James

Heh, no worries man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Sounds fun bro. In that case I may have to purchase a few of those SI 18's and build a similar box to your dimensions, so we can make a direct comparison. Just for the Science of it!
Oh, and not to mention have my Clone fixed up and miniDSP settings on point so we can see what properly dialed in Ultras are all about in your space. Hell, if I have my way I'll hopefully have another pair of Ultras up and running by then... That way you wouldn't need to travel all the way out to Cali to visit Edogg to experience his quads.
Once we finish the testing, the real fun can begin! Quad Ultra's, 8 Dayton's and a few SI 18's all running in unison sounds like a real party!!!

C'mon bro! I would have had all 4 boxes assembled and just waiting for my NASA glue to cure by now... Haha, just playing. Looking great man. What are your plans for your front baffle again? Not sure how much the surround on your Dayton sticks out, but when I made a grill, a single 3/4" recess made the grill coth rest on the surround. Just something to think about.

Re: Quad ultras, SI drivers, and the daytons - Sounds like a good time man. The question is: When will you be ready?? biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif I'm starting to warm up to the idea of these clone amps. It would still suck to drop 800+ on a amp to have to worry about it not working properly on receipt. frown.gif Maybe I will suck it up, order 2 of them and hope one of them works? I started looking around on ebay at the real LG's and even with the demo models I'm still looking at 4k+. frown.gif

Re: Baffes - I actually don't think I mentioned in the thread already. I'm doing the basic inner baffle surface mount / outer baffle recess so very similar to yours. 3/4 recess on the driver so I guess I should space the grill out some, huh? Good thinking man, glad you brought that up. I did buy some magnets for the grills and marked the locations on the outer baffes as well. I'll probably drill them in the next few nights as well and start thinking about how I want to frame the grills. Luckily I still have a ton of speaker cloth left from my room treatment project. tongue.gif


Next topics for discussion: Polyfill/stuffing and primer/paint. What are you guys using?
Edited by Gorilla83 - 11/12/12 at 5:22am
post #268 of 1005
What kinda feet are those? They look nice!
post #269 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Re: Quad ultras, SI drivers, and the daytons - Sounds like a good time man. The question is: When will you be ready?? biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif I'm starting to warm up to the idea of these clone amps. It would still suck to drop 800+ on a amp to have to worry about it not working properly on receipt. frown.gif Maybe I will suck it up, order 2 of them and hope one of them works? I started looking around on ebay at the real LG's and even with the demo models I'm still looking at 4k+. frown.gif

Man, I'm pretty confident I'll be holding up the show. However, I do have a lil something in the works and should find out in the next few weeks if it goes through. It might remove the mental block my wife has with me dropping another $2,700 on something she feels I already have MORE than enough of. Last time this scenario played out I had to drop $6K on appliances for the wifey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Re: Baffes - I actually don't think I mentioned in the thread already. I'm doing the basic inner baffle surface mount / outer baffle recess so very similar to yours. 3/4 recess on the driver so I guess I should space the grill out some, huh? Good thinking man, glad you brought that up. I did buy some magnets for the grills and marked the locations on the outer baffes as well. I'll probably drill them in the next few nights as well and start thinking about how I want to frame the grills. Luckily I still have a ton of speaker cloth left from my room treatment project. tongue.gif
Next topics for discussion: Polyfill/stuffing and primer/paint. What are you guys using?

On the pic I posted above you see how I had to mount an additional 3/4" surround because I didn't do the double recess like I should have.

Here is a teaser of what I am experimenting with... If all goes accordingly, the mammoths will be getting a face lift with a nice mirror resin finish.

20121112_084201.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

What kinda feet are those? They look nice!

If you want to scoop some up, give Polk a call @ 800-377-7655 and ask for a set of the:
Polk RF5206-1|5 TSi Monitor S3 Feet
post #270 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Popa - Would you be down for a mini-GTG over sometime thanksgiving or Christmas weeks? We could even do 2 LMS, 2 dual opposed daytons, and 2 empires? Maybe grab a couple submersives from ironmike as well? Battle of the sealed shootout. biggrin.gif

Looking forward to the Mammoth makeover too. biggrin.gif
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