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First DIY project for a guy looking to upgrade - multiple sealed 18s? - Page 12

post #331 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

But I will tell you that the Daytons have the punishing output like the Caps, but also have stupid low extension. Sound quality on both subs is outstanding.

So it seems as though acoustic suspension is king, eh? Welcome to the dark side - you're now one of us. Johnathan isn't gonna like this I'm afraid... tongue.gif
post #332 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

If anyone is close, I'll be home most of this week and off for work so give me a holler if you're close and want to stop by.

Let me check on a plane ticket. biggrin.gif
post #333 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

So it seems as though acoustic suspension is king, eh? Welcome to the dark side - you're now one of us. Johnathan isn't gonna like this I'm afraid... tongue.gif

Ha, you may be right. I will say this though, I just got back from his house and if my Captivators sounded in my room like they do in his I would never have sold them and gone with Submersives. It's like they were made for that room, it's awesome.

Currently I'm probably feeling like you Gorilla, I'm playing the JTR Noesis speakers and can't get enough. I'm like a little kid right now, sounds like you are in the same boat. smile.gif
post #334 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Obligatory beer after near box completion:
55D0B2F1-635C-4A9A-8457-C755AE85E14A-1170-00000219EFA60C20.jpg

ARRR the label doesn't lie cool.gif Great IPA brew, and compliments the sub output.

Awesome setup you have there.
post #335 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

I just sent this guy a text. Guys, this quad setup is FOR REAL. I'm blown away by this setup. My projector has been knocked out of lens shift 4 times in the first 10 minutes listening, LOL.
Massive output, especially in midrange? Check.
Extension? I'll let my sweep speak for itself. No HPF, No EQ, and no smoothing. It seems like my Crown does have a HPF built in at 7hz.
daytonsnoeq.jpg
More impressions to come soon, right now I'm listening! biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

Outstanding!
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Ha, you may be right. I will say this though, I just got back from his house and if my Captivators sounded in my room like they do in his I would never have sold them and gone with Submersives. It's like they were made for that room, it's awesome.
Currently I'm probably feeling like you Gorilla, I'm playing the JTR Noesis speakers and can't get enough. I'm like a little kid right now, sounds like you are in the same boat. smile.gif

Are those Noesis on loan? Or are you one of the early adopters?
post #336 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by enterthedragon View Post

Are those Noesis on loan? Or are you one of the early adopters?

Carp! I bet you are in heaven...those Noesis are stout for sure! I don't want to take this thread OT, so I'm going to have to dig through your profile to see if you have posted your impressions on them. I'd love to go for a full blown Neosis setup down the road just based off of what I heard at Gorillas last month.
post #337 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Very nice finish there, Gorilla. Happy that these are making you happy. smile.gif

Thanks Scott. I'm looking forward to getting them painted and buttoned up. cool.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Love to. We'll have to figure out a good time. We need to get a bunch of guys down there, if your wife is OK with it of course. Should I bring more wine? wink.gif

Yeah man, we'll figure something out. I can send her shopping for a few hours or something, heh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

See, I told you; velcro wasn't going to cut it, you need lag bolts. biggrin.gif

Well it wasn't too much of a problem until they were assaulted yesterday afternoon, LOL. I'm going to fab up some new brackets to fasten them this week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

So it seems as though acoustic suspension is king, eh? Welcome to the dark side - you're now one of us. Johnathan isn't gonna like this I'm afraid... tongue.gif

I like how you strategically left out the part about the Caps having more output at port tune, hahaha. Both ported and sealed have their advantages and I like them both. Of course given unlimited space, displacement, and power, acoustic suspension will always win. With similar power and drivers though the ported setups are going to kill in terms of output overall though.

I have to say though since my room does have some decent room gain, these sealed setups with a fair amount of displacement sound great in here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Let me check on a plane ticket. biggrin.gif

HAHA! Well, I'm not sure if they're worthy of a plane ride out for just these alone, but maybe if we can pull a mini-GTG and grab a few other takers it might be worth your while.
Edited by Gorilla83 - 11/19/12 at 5:00am
post #338 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

ARRR the label doesn't lie cool.gif Great IPA brew, and compliments the sub output.
Awesome setup you have there.

Thank you sir. I'm a big fan of the Cannon too. cool.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Ha, you may be right. I will say this though, I just got back from his house and if my Captivators sounded in my room like they do in his I would never have sold them and gone with Submersives. It's like they were made for that room, it's awesome.
Currently I'm probably feeling like you Gorilla, I'm playing the JTR Noesis speakers and can't get enough. I'm like a little kid right now, sounds like you are in the same boat. smile.gif

The Noesis pair is pretty amazing, right? I was half tempted to tell Jeff to leave the pair of them at the house, haha! You going to keep them? biggrin.gif
post #339 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by enterthedragon View Post

Are those Noesis on loan? Or are you one of the early adopters?

They are on loan, Jeff has a pair that he lent to the Omaha group and now is in KC, and they are going to Des Moines next. I want to be an early adopter!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Carp! I bet you are in heaven...those Noesis are stout for sure! I don't want to take this thread OT, so I'm going to have to dig through your profile to see if you have posted your impressions on them. I'd love to go for a full blown Neosis setup down the road just based off of what I heard at Gorillas last month.

I'm in heaven but it's also hell... I don't want these to ever leave my room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Thank you sir. I'm a big fan of the Cannon too. cool.gif
The Noesis pair is pretty amazing, right? I was half tempted to tell Jeff to leave the pair of them at the house, haha! You going to keep them? biggrin.gif

It's a crisis of conscience at this point. I have the whole devil/angel on each shoulder thing going on.
post #340 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I'm in heaven but it's also hell... I don't want these to ever leave my room.

What kind of power are you feeding them? I think they were being fed somethimg like 300wpc at Gorillas, which seemed adequate. People looked at me stupid when I suggested we hook them up to the iNuke6000 to see what they were really capable of...
post #341 of 1005
i thought it was a fantastic idea! with the 300 WPC we had into them they already surpassed the levels of human pain endurance for just about everyone there beides you and myself, feeding them a few thousand watts was just the next logical step IMO
post #342 of 1005
Gorilla83,

Reality Check called, he wants to speak to you. tongue.gifwink.gif

More midbass than the caps?

Aren't you still just running a pair for these initial demos or do you have four of them now? If only a pair...

Dayton Audio Driver - 18" driver with 12-20mm of excursion according to which spec you read. 900 watt RMS, 1800 watt peak power handling spec. 89dB 1 watt/1 meter sensitivity
Data-Bass said the useable max output on the Dayton driver is 122dB.

JTR Captivator Driver - 18" driver with 30mm of excursion according to JTR. 4000watt RMS, 7200 watt peak power handling spec. 97 dB sensitivity 1 watt/1 meter (I thought I heard)
Jeff said the useable output on the Cap was in the low 130dB's on his website. (apples to oranges measurements - but all I got at current).


The CHT 18.1 put up higher SPL numbers than the Dayton driver on data-bass.

I'm not saying you aren't liking what you are hearing. You might be liking it better!!! What I am saying is if you want more mid-bass in the cap driver - EQ to taste!!! It's got scads of headroom especially up high!

And by the numbers on database that driver looks like the CHT 18.1 driver would have given it a run/beaten it for everything except for at the lowest frequencies. At any rate --- I haven't heard them so I'm glad you are enthused! Your cabs look great and I'm sure in multiples that'll be a very potent system.
post #343 of 1005
"The CHT 18.1 put up higher SPL numbers than the Dayton driver on data-bass."

the cht is in a ported cab. the dayton was in a sealed cab.

"Data-Bass said the useable max output on the Dayton driver is 122dB."

that is a two-meter spec, so add 6db if the jtr is a one-meter spec.
post #344 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Dayton Audio Driver - 18" driver with 12-20mm of excursion according to which spec you read. 900 watt RMS, 1800 watt peak power handling spec. 89dB 1 watt/1 meter sensitivity
Data-Bass said the useable max output on the Dayton driver is 122dB.
JTR Captivator Driver - 18" driver with 30mm of excursion according to JTR. 4000watt RMS, 7200 watt peak power handling spec. 97 dB sensitivity 1 watt/1 meter (I thought I heard)
Jeff said the useable output on the Cap was in the low 130dB's on his website. (apples to oranges measurements - but all I got at current).
That's for 1. He's running 4, each pair being co-located. Also, after building materials, for a lower cost (probably around 75% the cost) than a single passive captivator tongue.gif

Gorilla, these look great, even unpainted! I actually kind of like the contrast (from a distance at least) between the Dayton's and the cabs. Awesome work and pretty inspiring being a first-time DIY'er. Can't wait to hear some more impressions as you get them dialed in. Are you planning on looking into implementing an LT with your miniDSP? It'd be really interesting to see what you'd get without the rolloff of your Crown amp.
post #345 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

What kind of power are you feeding them? I think they were being fed somethimg like 300wpc at Gorillas, which seemed adequate. People looked at me stupid when I suggested we hook them up to the iNuke6000 to see what they were really capable of...

Just a Pioneer Elite receiver.
post #346 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"The CHT 18.1 put up higher SPL numbers than the Dayton driver on data-bass."

the cht is in a ported cab. the dayton was in a sealed cab.

"Data-Bass said the useable max output on the Dayton driver is 122dB."

that is a two-meter spec, so add 6db if the jtr is a one-meter spec.

True -- didn't think of that. I don't know what distance the Cap was measured at for Jeff's useable output in base 130's claim.
post #347 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Gorilla83,
Reality Check called, he wants to speak to you. tongue.gifwink.gif
More midbass than the caps?
Aren't you still just running a pair for these initial demos or do you have four of them now? If only a pair...
Dayton Audio Driver - 18" driver with 12-20mm of excursion according to which spec you read. 900 watt RMS, 1800 watt peak power handling spec. 89dB 1 watt/1 meter sensitivity
Data-Bass said the useable max output on the Dayton driver is 122dB.
JTR Captivator Driver - 18" driver with 30mm of excursion according to JTR. 4000watt RMS, 7200 watt peak power handling spec. 97 dB sensitivity 1 watt/1 meter (I thought I heard)
Jeff said the useable output on the Cap was in the low 130dB's on his website. (apples to oranges measurements - but all I got at current).
The CHT 18.1 put up higher SPL numbers than the Dayton driver on data-bass.
I'm not saying you aren't liking what you are hearing. You might be liking it better!!! What I am saying is if you want more mid-bass in the cap driver - EQ to taste!!! It's got scads of headroom especially up high!
And by the numbers on database that driver looks like the CHT 18.1 driver would have given it a run/beaten it for everything except for at the lowest frequencies. At any rate --- I haven't heard them so I'm glad you are enthused! Your cabs look great and I'm sure in multiples that'll be a very potent system.

Yes, I'm running 4 drivers now, basically all colocated in a dual dual-opposed configuration.

A couple things: The JTR Cap sensitivity is listed as 91db on their site. The dayton's are indeed 89db sensitive, but there are twice as many drivers. Yes, the Caps will still be a bit more efficient around tune. However, in the midbass region, xmax/excursion is not as big of a factor as is sensitivity and displacement - both were/are being fed the same power from the Crown.

And yes the JTR does also have a lot of headroom in the midbass area, and they also sound great. The Daytons are pretty awesome though from what I've heard so far.

Are you visiting you're in laws over the holidays? biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmithers View Post

That's for 1. He's running 4, each pair being co-located. Also, after building materials, for a lower cost (probably around 75% the cost) than a single passive captivator tongue.gif
Gorilla, these look great, even unpainted! I actually kind of like the contrast (from a distance at least) between the Dayton's and the cabs. Awesome work and pretty inspiring being a first-time DIY'er. Can't wait to hear some more impressions as you get them dialed in. Are you planning on looking into implementing an LT with your miniDSP? It'd be really interesting to see what you'd get without the rolloff of your Crown amp.

Thanks for the complements, much appreciated. Here are my building costs - some money could be saved like primer, magnets, grills, etc if you did not want that stuff.

4 X Dayton 18 HO drivers - 933
4 sheets 4x8 ply, cabinet grade - 123
2 x binding post plates - 13
black screws for binding posts - 5
#10 x 1.5" spax screws for Drivers - 10
1 gallon primer - enough for probably 8 boxes - 18
3 tubes of PL premium sealant/glue - 15
1 gallon duratex - not used yet but enough for many boxes including a roller, 2 extra pads, and shipping - 72.00
Magnets for grills 40
14 pounds of polyfill from Walmart, not used yet - 42
1 X Crown XLS5000 (when it was on special with coupon) $533
1 x Minidsp with shipping $165
Wood for grill frames - approximately 10.00 for 1x4's ripped down
Cloth for speaker grill fabric - 15
Feet for enclosures - FREE thanks to my boy popalock biggrin.gif
Sandpaper = already had like 50 sheets of 120 / 150 / 320 grits, but if you need to buy this add maybe 5.00.
Wire - already had a spool of monoprice 12 gauge, but if you needed to buy I used about 12 feet overall. 5.00 maybe?

Total = $1994. Not too shabby. biggrin.gif
Subtract out the amp and EQ = 1296 including my fancy coatings and grill materials.
I think that's it.
Edited by Gorilla83 - 11/19/12 at 9:19am
post #348 of 1005
You just convinced me to get started on a quick bang up box that I will initially put my old tempest x-2 15's in just for fun, but that I could eventually move to 18's such as what you have smile.gif not a bad option at all, and then I will have 4 sealed subs, which should overall be much easier to work with...
post #349 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

I'm running them on my Crown in the same configuration as the Caps - 2 ohm stereo. Each cab is getting 2500 watts in this setup, so 1250 to each driver. They seem to take it all without an issue.

wink.gif
post #350 of 1005
Another way to look at it is the Cap is a 30mm x-max driver. Dual daytons are around 40mm of x-max so a pair of daytons will have more output than the Cap driver, it has more than the 34mm UXL-18 driver. So two dual opposed dayton subs(4 drivers) will have more output thru the midbass than dual caps. Of course not around the tune of the port.
post #351 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

True -- didn't think of that. I don't know what distance the Cap was measured at for Jeff's useable output in base 130's claim.

Pro audio speaker companies always use 1m half-space for output numbers and sensitivity specs for comparability. So yes subtract 6dB to compare with Data-Bass measurements which are approximate to either 2m half-space or 1m fullspace (Anechoic). Also the majority of the time these maximum output specs are purely calculation and not actual measured results. I don't know whether JTR is the very rare company that has actually measured this maximum output or not. Not picking on JTR by any means by stating this I'm saying virtually no pro audio companies verify or report measured peak output claims. You can't really compare measured versus theoretical data in a meaningful way especially when we don't know the details of the theoretical data. At the frequencies that Gorilla is talking about >40Hz, xmax doesn't come into play unless you are dumping HUGE voltage into the drivers so it is all sensitivity dominated at that point.
post #352 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Another way to look at it is the Cap is a 30mm x-max driver. Dual daytons are around 40mm of x-max so a pair of daytons will have more output than the Cap driver, it has more than the 34mm UXL-18 driver. So two dual opposed dayton subs(4 drivers) will have more output thru the midbass than dual caps. Of course not around the tune of the port.

This logic has me and my LMS-U's sweating... We'll see how things play out if/when I make it up to Gorillas for some official head-to-head comparisons (contingent on my Clone being repaired).

If 2 HO's will better one LMS-U for a little more than 1/2 the price and 1/4 the wattage, the HO's may be the next big thing in the DIY community.

How about this for reference. For the cost of three (3) submersives, one could have the performance of notynt.

Yeah, reading that statement again makes me think these HO's (at their current price-point) are well on their way to being the next big thing.
post #353 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

This logic has me and my LMS-U's sweating... We'll see how things play out if/when I make it up to Gorillas for some official head-to-head comparisons (contingent on my Clone being repaired).
If 2 HO's will better one LMS-U for a little more than 1/2 the price and 1/4 the wattage, the HO's may be the next big thing in the DIY community.
How about this for reference. For the cost of three (3) submersives, one could have the performance of notynt.
Yeah, reading that statement again makes me think these HO's (at their current price-point) are well on their way to being the next big thing.

You got it.
post #354 of 1005
Hey scott, how would 8 match up against a quad setup of RE's? both setups just off a single FP14k?
post #355 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Hey scott, how would 8 match up against a quad setup of RE's? both setups just off a single FP14k?

Here ya go. Had to include sims of the two at -10dB down because with both systems they go off the chart from ~30hz and up. tongue.gif

Both are very capable and will more than likely satisfy even the most die hard bass fan. Both should sound incredible. They are different though. It would cost less than $2,000 for eight Dayton drivers and for most people four XXX18's would run ~$3,000. The XXX18's are the superior driver down low with some mechanical headroom left on the table. The Daytons, not so much but these are modelled within reason and should sound very good.

8xRS18HOvs4xXXX18.gif
post #356 of 1005
Thread Starter 
I'm waiting for some sicko to do 16 of these off 2 LG14K clones. Popalock - where you at??? biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

16 Dayton HO 18s = 3732 (maybe cheaper if they can further discount)
2 LG clone 14K's = 1700
Minidsp = 165
Total = 5597 plus cabinets and finishing.
post #357 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Total = $1994. Not too shabby. biggrin.gif
Subtract out the amp and EQ = 1296 including my fancy coatings and grill materials.
I think that's it.

Nope. You forgot to factor in the beer consumed during this project, which could ultimately be a rather substantial amount. biggrin.gif
post #358 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Reality Check called, he wants to speak to you. tongue.gifwink.gif
More midbass than the caps?

See, I told you he wouldn't be happy... tongue.gif
post #359 of 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Nope. You forgot to factor in the beer consumed during this project, which could ultimately be a rather substantial amount. biggrin.gif

you have to remember we have him most of that in oct for being such a good host :P
post #360 of 1005
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Nope. You forgot to factor in the beer consumed during this project, which could ultimately be a rather substantial amount. biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

you have to remember we gave him most of that in oct for being such a good host :P

^ ^ - THIS! biggrin.gif
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