Looking to Outperform Extremely Capabable Commercial Offerings for my LCR

*Updated* 21 November 2012 (see post #36)

Summary of new DIY Perimeters/Goals per speaker (Subject to change upon finalizing design)

Budget: $2,000 - $3,300
Design Type: Two-Way
Max Output: 140db
Crossover: Two-Way
Response: 80Hz - 20+kHz (+/-3db)
Wattage: TBD
Impedance: 4 ohm
Dimensions: TBD
Materials: TBD
Weight: TBD


Original Post below:

Hello all,

New to the community, but not necessarily the addiction that is Home Theater. I've owned some semi-decent gear over the years, but for my next dedicated space I am looking for absolute overkill. I literally want to find my physical limits before my gear does. I've auditioned several setups and felt that I enjoy the crystal clear (albeit bright) sound of compression drivers / horn loaded highs. Of course a flat response is going to be my overall goal and I have big plans for the lower frequencies, (planning to crossover @ 80Hz) but for my mains I'm wondering if anyone can weigh in a few different options. I'd like to go DIY with a "no-holds-barred" performance approach in mind to outperform the likes some some very very capable commercial offerings. Here is what I am looking to outperform:


JTR Noesis - These seem very new. I saw these on the Northeast GTG thread, so obviously listening impressions are going to be limited, but the specs are pretty significant! Looks like the are going to be on sale for about ~$2,200 per speaker, so ~$6,600 for LCR.



Klipsch Jubilee - I hear nothing but good things about the Jubilee's from every source I have researched. These things are BIG (at least compared to the Noesis) and I personally have not heard these in person, so I am wondering how much of a benefit the (is it horn loaded?) bass bins provide. Obviously they dig a lot deeper than the Noesis (32Hz vs 70Hz), so I don't know how/if they would even be a good comparison from an "all around" performance standpoint. My research indictes that I might be able to pick these up for about ~$3,500 per speaker, so $10,500 for LCR. I found this pic over at the Audiokarma forum.



JBL 4722 - The specs seem in line with the above referenced products. The picture below speaks for itself and would be something I would like to emulate in the big picture (all gear hidden of course). This seems like potentially the cheapest option at ~$1,800 per speaker, so $5,400 for LCR.



Ok, now for DIY. This is where I would need some serious help. If I was to go DIY, I would need some input on what it would take to outperform the big dogs above. Here are a few components I have picked thus far. *Disclaimer - Being the label whore that I am, you will notice the products below are very "brandish" and expensive. In my past experience I've noticed that one has been able to obtain 95% of the performance at like 50% of the price. (i.e.: UXL-18 vs LMS-Ultra) If anyone has any input as such, please don't hesitate to let me know. Major component considerations as follows:

TC Sounds 18" Pro x 2

JBLCompression Driver

I am clearly missing the horn itself, crossover and any other misc parts I will need to finish a project like this, but based on just the raw components mentioned above, but do you guys think this is a good base to start? Since I plan on going all in with this design, I am willing to consider a 3 way design as well( if necessary?).

Please go easy on me because I am a complete noob when it comes to speaker design and most of my focus in this hobby has gone to my passion for subwoofers. I am open to all suggestions and recommendations and appreciate any feedback in advance.

Oh, one other disclaimer. Don't expect this project to happen overnight given I am in the first stages of design.
Edited by enterthedragon - 11/21/12 at 8:20am

Room is still in design phase as well, but since I have a fresh slate I am going to reachout to you guys (most likely in the dedicated room design section) for room design advice at some point. I might even reach out to Dennis and his team for a design and literally build around said design from the ground up. Just for discussions sake let's say the room dimensions are going to be about 33'L x 23'W x 14'H. Those are the closest "round" numbers to get me to Sepmeyer Room C ratios mentioned in this AVS discussion. Hopefully that those demensions will suit me well to address/avoid any potential room modes.

I want to say budget is UNLIMITED! But... Let's be realistic. The above referenced commercial offerings are rated to max out around 137db. The most expensive of the three are the Jub's at about $10,500 for the LCR setup I am looking for. Honestly, if this exercise is only going to potentially get me another 3db of output and cost me more than the Jub's I think I should just throw in the cards now... So let's cap the budget at that for now.

One thing I love about you DIY types, you never b!tch about "too loud." Do I know how loud 137db is? Yes... I do. Do I realize that 99.999999% of the worlds population would never ever want to listen to music at that volume... Yes... I do.

I equate this to having a 1,000hp daily driver. While I may only open it up occasionally, it's nice to know it's on tap anytime I want to play...

I've been lurking here for awhile and I see some of the guys in the DIY section have the same mentality. Sometimes you just want to come home and geeeetttt stupid with it!!!!


Do you have a picture of your arrays you can post on this thread?


Jesus man... I know specs don't tell the full story, but $1,100 for the JBL seems incredible. I just did a quick google search and found like $1,640 or so. I mean, $1,100 seems like it takes bargin output to awhole other level! It makes me wonder what something like the JBL 5472 would cost? 142db peak seems like it might be the next step up? Sooooo tall, but it's a real beaute!

Have you ever personally heard the Jubilee's or are you basing your comment off of the previous Klipsch gear you've owned?


Why would you argue with someone like Notynt? He doesn't seem like the type to post anything without being able to back it up and I definitely don't see how he could mistake what he actually paid for his JBL's. Usually safe to say people with thousands of posts on a particular forum kinda know what they are talking about... Maybe that's just a subjective observation on my part though...


I don't think Scott would appreciate me stealing his design. They do look incredible though! Right up my alley for sure.

Man... So it's seeming more and more like it would be in my best interest to just go with a commercial offering vs attempting DIY. So many options...


I'll have to look this up later. Any link you could provide would be great.

Thank you Notynt. I was thinking about PM'ing you to ask if it was cool to use your pic, but I noticed a few other sites used your pics and I saw you give your permission to those guys... I yook a chance. I'd be proud of my setup as well if I were you. My hats off to you.

Thanks for posting up the info for your hookup with the JBL gear.


Understood. Thank you for the insight.

I've owned the Klipsch RF-7's in the past, so I understand your comment about listening fatigue. Ihave a demo setup for some Jubilees here in the near future, but haven't heard many other commercial offerings in a HT environment. Man, what I wouldn't give to have all of the aforementioned commercial offerings in one location to demo them back-to-back.

I'm all over the room acoustics and I'm strongly considering the RS20i for EQ/processing duties.

One thing I hate seeing with these $1M Home Theaters is how much focus is put into form vs. function. Another thing I have noticed about myself (personality trait) is that I tejd to he satisfied for a brief amout of time, but it almost seems inevidible that I adjust my expectations and shortly find myself wanting more. Obviously my current plans are going to require a very large investment, but I think by making the investment upfront I'm going to hopefully squash the upgraditus bug indefinitely...

As far as the JBL 5742 is concerned, are you saying that my 15 person 10,000ft^3 room isn't going to be large enough to take advantage of those beasts? 15ft away isn't going to far enough?

Keep the suggestions coming guys.

Before the SH-50 recommendation, the extent I knew of Danley was their DTS-10. Dear god do they have some insane products.

I'm assuming all would agree that the Jerico JH-90 would probably be overkill...

Let me re-frame my comment. "I hate seeing these $1M Home Theaters that can easily be trumped (from an audio perspective) by a $30K system, such as Notynt's." I guess I'd just like to see a $1M theater with audio performance on par with the fit and finish.


Jack's build is beautiful! Putting those master pieces behind a AT screen would seem like a crime in and of itself. I was skimming through it and I think I remember reading that they start to compress at some where around 125db.



130db is serious. I think read somewhere that Notynt's at 130db flat down to like 10Hz... Might need to verify from the source though. Again, I go back to the car analogy. Who really needs to hit 210mph on the Autobahn? How often would you actually have the opportunity to open it up? Not often, but when you get that wild hair, it's nice to know it's on tap.

I've seen/heard ~130db (measured through Omnimic) on a few occasions and, while it was loud, it didn't make me want tap out. I would NOT subject myself to those levels for extended periods of time, but I still felt as though I would have liked more...More...MORE!!! Oh, and while I don't remember the specifics, I think the system I am referring to started to roll off at like 22Hz or something. So, I've yet to experience one of those "flat to single digits" I've heard so much about in the DIY community.

I would be thrilled with like 130db flat down to about 3Hz... We all know it's doable, but not easily obtainable. Trust me, I'm tracking in regards to what it would take on the low-end to accomplish such a feat. Double Not? Quad Not, Maybe? I'm not shooting for realistic. I'm shooting for the stars.


16subs... NICE! This does seem like the most economical approach. Those Dayton's aren't nearly as pretty as the LMS-U's.

Haha, j/k. I try not to let stuff like that influnce my purchasing decisions and again, I am planning on having everything concealed/hidden.

Aaaahhhh... Decisions, decisions... I think my primary concern would be to waste all of this time on doing DIY only to have a commercial offering offer similar performance at a simlar price point. Yeah, the wife would MUCH rather me drop the coin upfront vs. spending countless hours goind DIY.


Sounds like you and I are on the same wave length Mr. Sims. Getting bored always leads to the "upgraditus" bug. Having an asinine amount of headroom should hopefully put that to rest. If I get bored, I'd just like to push it a little bit further for that renewed vigor we tend to get when we upgrade to more capable gear. So, if 130db gave me that feeling for a few months, once I got bored, I just push it to 133db. Few months later if I feel the need, I'll just push it to 136db...

It would be nice to say... Ok, I don't want to go any further. That's enough. I tap-out.


I'm all over the subs. High power, high displacement in multiples...


How would you compare your Yorkville U215's vs. the QSC KW153?

Also, I've noticed that a few have mentioned that an upgrade from the Yorkville U215 would be the Danley SH-50. While I am fully aware that the specs alone do not tell the full story, but comparing the specs side-by-side, it appears as though the U215 is more powerful, wider fq range and can maintain higher output. Why would the SH-50 be considered an upgrade?


With so many offerings from Danley, it's opened my eyes to SO much more on the commercial side. Craziness!
So would you go with the SM-96's because you have heard them in person? Why would you choose those over the SH-50?

How much do the SubM's go for these days? $2,500 a piece? I could buy almost 10 of the Dayton's that LTD mentioned previously for the price of one SubM. Two LMS-U's with one of those Clone amps for about the price of a SubM. I guess what I am getting at is that I am definitely planning on going DIY from a sub stand point.


As mentioned in my first post, still in the planning phases. I'm actually still finalizing the room details as well.


Geez man. I'm kinda the type of persion to want to smash things when they don't work like they should. Considering I am having computer problems at this moment, I think I might have to do baby steps into the HTPC realm.


Sealed will be the way I go for sure...


What!!! $25K per speaker? $75K for LCR! That might be a bit out of the price range. My only real question (for those who have heard them in person) is if the Jerico sounds as good at low volume as it does at higher volumes? Jerico in a HT environment sounds beyond fun....