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Windows 8 - my verdict. - Page 2

post #31 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

I no longer have Win8 on a machine at the moment so I can't verify but going by Server 2012:
  1. Move mouse to top/bottom right to display charm.
  2. Move mouse to middle right and click Settings charm.
  3. Move mouse to bottom right and click Power.
  4. Click Shut Down.
According to your instructions for Win8 (which I will verify later tonight)
  1. Move mouse to top/bottom right to display charm.
  2. Click Config charm.
  3. Click Shutdown.
  4. Click desired Shut Down option.
Win7:
  1. Click Start.
  2. Click Shut Down.
So no... not the same number of steps (and much less mouse movement). And that's only one example.
On non touch machines, you really need to use some of the accelerators like Win + X or Win + I (e.g. Win + I -> Power -> Options). Otherwise it's is indeed painful. Furthermore, if you're mainly using your system as a desktop, then it may make sense to install one of those start menu addons (I really like this one: http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/). That way you can use a system like a Win7 and still use some of those new Win8 apps. This way the modern UI feels more like an addon.

I'm using Win8 on desktop machines, but I wouldn't use it for my htpc.
post #32 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

I no longer have Win8 on a machine at the moment so I can't verify but going by Server 2012:
Can't believe they stuck the metro interface on Server 2012.
post #33 of 622
The problem with that is, I would be using a third party addon to give me the exact same functionality I have with Win7. Since I haven't found a "must have" metro app, I don't see myself utilizing metro much if at all. So basically, I would be upgrading to Win8 + third party software to get back to Win7 functionality.. or just stick with Win7.

I do like some of the new under the hood features of Win8 but they are simply not worth me dealing with the UI. For those who like it, it's all yours and I'm not going to try to convince you not to use it. It just doesn't work for me. And this is only the second MS OS since Win 3.1 that I haven't adopted out of the gate. ME of course being the first.
post #34 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by kesawi View Post

Can't believe they stuck the metro interface on Server 2012.
That one has boggled the best of system admins.
post #35 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico66 View Post

On non touch machines, you really need to use some of the accelerators like Win + X or Win + I (e.g. Win + I -> Power -> Options). Otherwise it's is indeed painful. Furthermore, if you're mainly using your system as a desktop, then it may make sense to install one of those start menu addons (I really like this one: http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/). That way you can use a system like a Win7 and still use some of those new Win8 apps. This way the modern UI feels more like an addon.
I'm using Win8 on desktop machines, but I wouldn't use it for my htpc.

Old news. Create a shortcut and pin it to the start menu:

http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/slideshow-set-up-a-windows-8-shutdown-shortcut/6349799

There. Is that so hard?
post #36 of 622
Biggest issue I've found for Windows 8 is working out how to use it and get the functionality I want. Sometimes it's unclear whether I can't do something because I'm lacking a driver or it's just not in Windows 8. It definitely requires a big investment in time to learn and tweak. Unfortunately time is not something I have at the moment so I'm continuing to use Windows 7 on my main production PCs and toy around with Windows 8 when I have an opportunity. Change is not something humans deal with and I think that is part of the reason for a lot of the negativity. Time will tell.
post #37 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

Old news. Create a shortcut and pin it to the start menu:
http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/slideshow-set-up-a-windows-8-shutdown-shortcut/6349799
There. Is that so hard?
And the top rated comments at that link sum it up nicely.
post #38 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by kesawi View Post

Change is not something humans deal with and I think that is part of the reason for a lot of the negativity.
I'm not opposed to change per se. I usually like it and even embrace it when it has something significant to offer. What I do not like is change just for the sake of change and that's what Win8 feels like to me.
post #39 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

And the top rated comments at that link sum it up nicely.

They can't accept change. To survive, Microsoft needs a tablet OS. Its needs to make concessions.
post #40 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Why is it a problem? You either manually hunt down your program or you just type its name. If you start typing and backspace the letters away, you get to see all the programs you have and you can still manually hunt them down as before.

The problem is in Window 7 if I want to go to Device Manager, I hit Win, type "Dev", press Down (three or whatever times), Enter, and I'm there. In Windows 8, it's Win, "DEV", wait, I don't see it, what? Oh, I have to click settings with the mouse, got it, now I'm there. They took something that was easy with Win 7 and made it harder. Just one of a
Quote:
The same type of thing was said when the GUI was added to the OS...people decried it as a problem, slowing down the system, dumbing things down, not meant for "real" users, etc. Now even UNIX has a GUI.

Unfortunately in linux's case, there's a lot of stuff you can't do in the GUI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Instead of going to the lower left, clicking Start, clicking Shutdown, then clicking which kind you want, you go to the lower or upper right to activate the charm (slide out panel), click Config, Click Shutdown, then click which kind you want. Same number of steps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

I no longer have Win8 on a machine at the moment so I can't verify but going by Server 2012:
  1. Move mouse to top/bottom right to display charm.
  2. Move mouse to middle right and click Settings charm.
  3. Move mouse to bottom right and click Power.
  4. Click Shut Down.
According to your instructions for Win8 (which I will verify later tonight)
  1. Move mouse to top/bottom right to display charm.
  2. Click Config charm.
  3. Click Shutdown.
  4. Click desired Shut Down option.
Win7:
  1. Click Start.
  2. Click Shut Down.
So no... not the same number of steps (and much less mouse movement). And that's only one example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

Old news. Create a shortcut and pin it to the start menu:
http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/slideshow-set-up-a-windows-8-shutdown-shortcut/6349799
There. Is that so hard?

A new UI should be intuitive and easy to use. Windows 8 may be that for tablets, but tablets have completely different interface conventions like swiping from edges (though, having an android device, that's even not really a convention confused.gif ), but desktops have none of those conventions. Pushing tablet interface conventions to a desktop user is something I just don't/can't understand, beyond the appearance that MS appears to be banking everything on mobile.
post #41 of 622
I disagree. I can easily accept change for the better but not for the worst. I adapted to iOS fine because it was far better than what came before it. I adapted to Win 3.1, NT, XP and 7 just fine, each better than the previous one. Win 8 is dysfunctional on so many levels, it's not worth the effort. Can I adapt? Of course. I can memorize all the necessary keyboard shortcuts, install 3rd party shells, hack the registry, make a ton of new shortcuts, use twice as many mouse moves and keystrokes to do the same tasks I did in Win 7 and guess at what text searches to do for the programs I want to run. But why would anyone want to go through all of that? A good OS is supposed to make tasks easier, not harder.
post #42 of 622
.
Edited by cybrsage - 10/29/12 at 6:46pm
post #43 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

The problem is in Window 7 if I want to go to Device Manager, I hit Win, type "Dev", press Down (three or whatever times), Enter, and I'm there. In Windows 8, it's Win, "DEV", wait, I don't see it, what? Oh, I have to click settings with the mouse, got it, now I'm there. They took something that was easy with Win 7 and made it harder. Just one of a

Wait - you are complaining about using a mouse in a GUI?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd 
I no longer have Win8 on a machine at the moment so I can't verify but going by Server 2012:

1.Move mouse to top/bottom right to display charm.
2.Move mouse to middle right and click Settings charm.
3.Move mouse to bottom right and click Power.
4.Click Shut Down.


According to your instructions for Win8 (which I will verify later tonight)
1.Move mouse to top/bottom right to display charm.
2.Click Config charm.
3.Click Shutdown.
4.Click desired Shut Down option.


Win7:
1.Click Start.
2.Click Shut Down.


So no... not the same number of steps (and much less mouse movement). And that's only one example.

I was not on my Win8 machine at the time - the 4 steps you show are the same as in Win8...my names were just a little off. As for in Win7, it all depends on what you have setup as your default action. That button could say reboot, or it could say sleep. You then have to click the little arrow and select which action you actually want. Obviously you can cherry pick any number of things that take more time to do. Every OS change brings about such things. There are always better things about each new OS as well.



As for why MS put Metro on their server? No idea, that is an idiotic move, IMO.
post #44 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

They can't accept change. To survive, Microsoft needs a tablet OS. Its needs to make concessions.

Your right, they need a tablet OS. They've tried for years to force Windows on to tablets, and they've failed miserably. Apple, the first company that has actually produced a tablet people wanted to buy realized tablets and desktops needed different OS's. So instead of creating a compelling tablet OS Microsoft tried to leverage their successful desktop OS. They're trying to force their desktop developers to create products that will work with tablets instead of making a tablet OS good enough to get users and the developers to follow. I think they're shooting themselves in the foot with this. They're destroying their successful products to try and prop up another product. I really feel sorry for Microsoft now. They need someone with vision at the helm. Balmer obviously isn't it. They've got momentum for now. People just expect to buy a computer with windows. Many younger people are discovering that they can do what they want to do with a tablet or a smartphone. So who do you have left, business. Now can anyone really tell me that you would give a barely computer literate employee a Windows 8 PC. Just think of all the youtube fun you could have with a whole room of people swearing at their screens.

I agree that Windows 8 has some good underpinnings. I think that it could provide a good start for Windows 9. We also all know why Microsoft did what they did with Metro and such. I just don't think it was a good decision, nor is it a good OS.
post #45 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I was not on my Win8 machine at the time - the 4 steps you show are the same as in Win8...my names were just a little off. As for in Win7, it all depends on what you have setup as your default action. That button could say reboot, or it could say sleep. You then have to click the little arrow and select which action you actually want. Obviously you can cherry pick any number of things that take more time to do.
I was using out of the box defaults as the example. I can write a custom app to do just about anything I want with one click but that's not the point. If it takes longer to do something out of the box than with the last OS, it is not intuitive.

I do agree with duff99. Win8 will be a great precursor for Win9.

@Tiddles88, just because someone does not like Win8 does not mean that they just can't accept change (seemingly the only reason you think people don't like it). Just as you have plenty of reasons to like Win8, many of us have just as many reasons not to like it and the fact that we don't doesn't make our reasons any less valid that yours.
post #46 of 622
I don't like Metro, so I installed Classic Shell. Now I boot directly to the desktop, charms bar is disabled, start menu is back. I know it's stupid to have to do this, but it really works well. Now all I ever see is Windows 7 super fast edition.
Edited by StinDaWg - 10/29/12 at 10:39pm
post #47 of 622
Funny thing is that people ran the Windows 3.1 interface on their Win 95 machines too...
post #48 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

I don't like Metro, so I installed Classic Shell. Now I boot directly to the desktop, charms bar is disabled, start menu is back. I know it's stupid to have to do this, but it really works well. Now all I ever see is Windows 7 super fast edition.

What's the point? You might as well have stayed with 7. I have a strong suspicion that updates over the coming months will break these programs and hacks. Like it or not, Metro is it and I doubt Microsoft is going to get rid of it.
post #49 of 622
I'd be more than happy to have the Win. 8 features with a usable Win 7 interface. Why those MS Bob clowns thought using a phone interface on a desktop was a good idea, I don't know. I certainly see why they are loosing marketshare.

I ran XP until Win 7 was released, at this point I have 3 Win 7 machines and one XP that will be retired soon. I'll load up one instance of Win 8 for further testing, but not on productivity-critical machine. In the last year my 15k person firm went from xp to 7, and there is NO chance we will adopt 8.
post #50 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

What's the point? You might as well have stayed with 7. I have a strong suspicion that updates over the coming months will break these programs and hacks. Like it or not, Metro is it and I doubt Microsoft is going to get rid of it.

The point, it is effective and more productive. There are benefits, such as drive extension. The interface, for desktop use, is NOT one of the benefits.
post #51 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

What's the point? You might as well have stayed with 7. I have a strong suspicion that updates over the coming months will break these programs and hacks. Like it or not, Metro is it and I doubt Microsoft is going to get rid of it.

The point is I get all of the speed and performance improvements of Windows 8 without having to see Metro (which I will never use on a desktop or laptop). Classic Shell has been around forever, so I doubt anything is going to change.
post #52 of 622
My main beef is having to perform upkeep on TWO user interfaces.
In fact, I think I have Google Chrome installed TWICE! Once for Metro, once for Desktop. I opened the app on Metro and it went through the usual first boot set up, then I went to desktop, clicked the icon, and did the first boot set up again! So I now have two versions of Chrome? (along with two IEs, two windows updates, etc.)

rolleyes.gif
post #53 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Funny thing is that people ran the Windows 3.1 interface on their Win 95 machines too...

People also didn't like "New Coke" either when that came out in the mid-eighties. Eventually amid a sales drop Coke was forced to come out with "Coke Classic" which eventually went back to just being "Coke". Just because there is a major change to a product does not mean it is for the better and does not have to be accepted by consumers. I still wonder what MS designers were thinking whenever I see that fugly interface formerly known as Metro, and am more amazed at their arrogance in attempting to force desktop users to it.
post #54 of 622
According to Tom's Hardware, the Media Center Pack not only adds WMC and DVD playback, it adds BluRay. This is an absolutely massive improvement. With Windows 7, it cost $100 for the OS, plus ~$50-$100 for BluRay playback, which even still was a somewhat clunky solution with WMC. With Windows 8, it costs $140 for Win8Pro, plus $10 for the Media Center Pack (though during the "introductory period", the pack will be free), which has BluRay baked in. If you're upgrading from Win7, it's $40 for the Win8 upgrade, plus $10 for WMC. For people who want to be using CableCARD but not compromising on the movie front, that's great.

Couple this with the fact that Metro is a great 10-foot UI, and we might have a winner.
Edited by ImThat1Guy - 10/30/12 at 8:03am
post #55 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

The general pinion that I've seen is that Win 8 kinda sucks at first impression, but longer exposure tends to soften the opinion to the point where people start liking it.
Hasn't that pretty much been the comment for every significant UI change since Windows 3.0?
post #56 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

It IS the start screen. You click the Desktop tile and you are out of the start screen and onto the desktop. It really is that easy. If you want to use Diablo III (and that is the reason you are going to the desktop), just add D3 to the Metro and click it instead of going to the desktop and double clicking it. It really is that easy.
Heh, meant Program.
Why is it a problem? You either manually hunt down your program or you just type its name. If you start typing and backspace the letters away, you get to see all the programs you have and you can still manually hunt them down as before.
The same type of thing was said when the GUI was added to the OS...people decried it as a problem, slowing down the system, dumbing things down, not meant for "real" users, etc. Now even UNIX has a GUI.

Haha I had to laugh at the part I bolded.
When I go over to my fathers house to give him a tutorial on using his new Windows 8 PC, I'll have to remember these wonderful new tricks to navigate the UI.
"No Dad, it isnt harder to use. Just start typing the name of a program, then start back spacing a couple of the letters until
all the programs pop up. I dont understand why you dont find that intuitive"
"How many times do I have to tell you, to shut down the computer is easy. Just place your cursor in the area to the upper right
hand corner of the screen....no, not the red X, thats to close I.E. The area just below that...there!...stop...did you see that menu slide out?
Do that again and when that menu pops out follow it to shutdown"
post #57 of 622
I find these threads funny.

They give you the desktop to use. Use it. Why are you even in metro at all if you don't like it? you can even pull up the charms bar in desktop mode. If you need metro to find a program, press the windows key and type the name just like in 7. I think this is an interesting study in how humans do things. You're presented with what you're used to, even if it starts different, there's a desktop tile. A person would rather look for a hack than click the desktop tile or press the windows key? A person would rather complain about a UI they don't have to use than simply not use it? I do think the Media Center complaints are warranted, but those that remember when 7 Media Center came out, there were some incompatibilities as well. I lost my beloved auto commercial stripping program(lifesaver, why didn't you ever make an 8 equivalent, I loved you) and lost a couple of my ATSC tuners. But in time, better things came. Much better. The desktop stuff will fall on deaf ears once people realize one click or one button press and they are back to the old.
post #58 of 622
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImThat1Guy View Post

According to Tom's Hardware, the Media Center Pack not only adds WMC and DVD playback, it adds BluRay. This is an absolutely massive improvement. With Windows 7, it cost $100 for the OS, plus ~$50-$100 for BluRay playback, which even still was a somewhat clunky solution with WMC. With Windows 8, it costs $140 for Win8Pro, plus $10 for the Media Center Pack (though during the "introductory period", the pack will be free), which has BluRay baked in. If you're upgrading from Win7, it's $40 for the Win8 upgrade, plus $10 for WMC. For people who want to be using CableCARD but not compromising on the movie front, that's great.
Couple this with the fact that Metro is a great 10-foot UI, and we might have a winner.
That's news to me, if WMC8 will play blu rays "natively".
post #59 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

That's news to me, if WMC8 will play blu rays "natively".
Ditto. Would be nice to get someone who could confirm this.
post #60 of 622
I think there are plenty of reasons to not like Win8 right off but in the end it will work it's way into general acceptance. With just a little practice it will come as natural to skip back and forth from Metro to the old desktop if you need to. By the time Win9 arrives in 2015 everyone will pretty much be on board. From my own reaction and initial resistance I have to say that it may be a Geezer moment and that this is one of those Olds vs. Youngs break points. So all of you gray hairs and no hairs, be prepared to give in because resistance is futile.
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