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Windows 8 - my verdict. - Page 3

post #61 of 584
10/30/12 at 9:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NNate View Post

Ditto. Would be nice to get someone who could confirm this.

I can. It doesn't. smile.gif
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post #62 of 584
10/30/12 at 9:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyLR View Post

I think there are plenty of reasons to not like Win8 right off but in the end it will work it's way into general acceptance. With just a little practice it will come as natural to skip back and forth from Metro to the old desktop if you need to. By the time Win9 arrives in 2015 everyone will pretty much be on board. From my own reaction and initial resistance I have to say that it may be a Geezer moment and that this is one of those Olds vs. Youngs break points. So all of you gray hairs and no hairs, be prepared to give in because resistance is futile.
I don't disagree with any of these viewpoints "long term". But short term, my view point is that Windows 8 is Vista redux. They should not have released this just yet, it is half baked. In time, no doubt it'll become better, but right now it is what it is.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.... smile.gif
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post #63 of 584
10/30/12 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

I can. It doesn't. smile.gif
Thanks, that's what I expected.
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post #64 of 584
10/30/12 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

But short term, my view point is that Windows 8 is Vista redux.
I actually liked Vista. I used it for about an hour before I decided to wipe XP off of every machine I owned.

But I don't like Win8 so therefore I cannot accept change. rolleyes.gif
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post #65 of 584
10/30/12 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan4081 View Post

Haha I had to laugh at the part I bolded.
When I go over to my fathers house to give him a tutorial on using his new Windows 8 PC, I'll have to remember these wonderful new tricks to navigate the UI.
"No Dad, it isnt harder to use. Just start typing the name of a program, then start back spacing a couple of the letters until
all the programs pop up. I dont understand why you dont find that intuitive"

Just type "a" and backspace to go back to the old school way. You can probably also download a Windows 3.1 shell for Win8 if you look hard enough for one. Heck, you can create a CMD prompt icon and tell him to just click that - why bother with a GUI at all, right? wink.gif
Quote:
"How many times do I have to tell you, to shut down the computer is easy. Just place your cursor in the area to the upper right
hand corner of the screen....no, not the red X, thats to close I.E. The area just below that...there!...stop...did you see that menu slide out?
Do that again and when that menu pops out follow it to shutdown"

Yeah, since clicking the START button is SOOO much more intuitive when you what to shutdown the PC...


EDIT: Most of the complaints I have seen are from people who have not used it or used it for a very short time now. They very closely mirror the complaints from Win3.1 to Win95 and from Win95 to WinXP. The biggest difference is that 3.1 to 95 also came with a tripling of the boot time. In a year or two, you will see most people say how they like Win8, just like we say with the other GUI changes. What we see here is simply history repeating itself.
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post #66 of 584
10/30/12 at 3:54pm
With Vista Microsoft was at least trying to make improvements for the desktop user. In the end most of Vistas problems could be traced back to things outside of Microsoft's control. Mainly drivers. In this case they are making a desperate bid to save their own butts. They fell at least 2 years behind on phones, and at least that far on tablets. They know they're in trouble. I'm sure you can all see it as well as me. The future of computing is changing, and Microsoft was being left behind. Windows 8 is not trying to improve desktop software. They're just trying to prop up their tablet OS by messing with their core market. We can all see they changes Microsoft is making. They're even getting into the hardware business with the Surface. Don't tell me they're not desperate if they're willing to risk alienating all their partners over this. They don't think this is a improvement for desktop users. They think this is the only way the can save themselves. This is where I see the big difference between Vista, and ME. I just hope they realize their mistake and fix this mess before it's to late.
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post #67 of 584
10/31/12 at 6:49am
Has anyone tried WMC 8 with an ATSC card? Is it a good assumption that Win7 drivers will work in Win8?
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post #68 of 584
10/31/12 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

Has anyone tried WMC 8 with an ATSC card? Is it a good assumption that Win7 drivers will work in Win8?

Worked fine for me. I have two Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1250.
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post #69 of 584
10/31/12 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by duff99 View Post

With Vista Microsoft was at least trying to make improvements for the desktop user. In the end most of Vistas problems could be traced back to things outside of Microsoft's control. Mainly drivers. In this case they are making a desperate bid to save their own butts. They fell at least 2 years behind on phones, and at least that far on tablets. They know they're in trouble. I'm sure you can all see it as well as me. The future of computing is changing, and Microsoft was being left behind. Windows 8 is not trying to improve desktop software. They're just trying to prop up their tablet OS by messing with their core market. We can all see they changes Microsoft is making. They're even getting into the hardware business with the Surface. Don't tell me they're not desperate if they're willing to risk alienating all their partners over this. They don't think this is a improvement for desktop users. They think this is the only way the can save themselves. This is where I see the big difference between Vista, and ME. I just hope they realize their mistake and fix this mess before it's to late.

I agree totally. MS know Metro on the desktop is wrong, but it's a sure fire way of getting people used to the new interface concept, and I firmly believe that the only reason is to get them back in the tablet/phone market. If people are used to Metro, then they're more likely to look at Surface tablets or Windows 8 phones which have the same interface. If MS had made Metro optional on the desktop, most people would just have disabled it, which wouldn't have been good for their other markets.

It's an old idea. Push the thing into your face so you can't ignore it. You might not like it, but you'll get used to it, and then, believe it or not, you're more likely to buy it. MS still have a total stranglehold on the desktop market, but they also know this market will tail off sharply over the next few years. Even if corporates avoid 8 like the plague (which they most likely will) and run 7 instead, it's still a client license at the end of the day, so 7 or 8 doesn't really matter to them in the business world. It's the consumer who's moving away from PC's, so that's what they're targeting.

I think this is called the 'brute force' approach.
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post #70 of 584
10/31/12 at 4:29pm
I'm surprised at this thread because it doesn't seem to be much geared toward HTPC use. The metro interface is definitely an improvement over desktop mode for using a remote or a touchscreen device, and launching apps and programs like Netflix and browsers. I have always tried to minimize the time I see the desktop at all on my windows htpcs, I guess not everyone has the same approach.

I don't understand the hatred toward metro when it comes to HTPCs, which is what this forum is about.

If there aren't compatibility problems with your hardware and software I would not hesitate to install it when building an HTPC.

I won't get into whether it's a better OS for business and general use, because this is not the forum for it.
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post #71 of 584
10/31/12 at 4:37pm
I'll tell you what.... if I copy a large movie file in excess of 1gb, it's 10 times faster than Windows 7!
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post #72 of 584
10/31/12 at 4:42pm
Yes, file transfers are much better than past windows, especially since you can pause and resume them without a 3rd party program. This is definitely an advantage for HTPCS when it comes to transferring large movies.
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post #73 of 584
11/1/12 at 1:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baccusboy View Post

I'll tell you what.... if I copy a large movie file in excess of 1gb, it's 10 times faster than Windows 7!

Copying files is almost entirely dependant on your network speed and the device you're copying to. I can get 70-80MB/s copying large movie files to my WHS on 7, I doubt very much I'd be looking at 700MB/s in Windows 8 (on the same Gb NIC!) smile.gif
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post #74 of 584
11/2/12 at 2:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenithPete View Post

I'm surprised at this thread because it doesn't seem to be much geared toward HTPC use. The metro interface is definitely an improvement over desktop mode for using a remote or a touchscreen device, and launching apps and programs like Netflix and browsers. I have always tried to minimize the time I see the desktop at all on my windows htpcs, I guess not everyone has the same approach.
I don't understand the hatred toward metro when it comes to HTPCs, which is what this forum is about.
If there aren't compatibility problems with your hardware and software I would not hesitate to install it when building an HTPC.
I won't get into whether it's a better OS for business and general use, because this is not the forum for it.

I don't agree. I use a Lenovo htpc remote and I still prefer the desktop by a mile. There is no Windows Media Center or XBMC in Metro, and the browsers suck with limited plugins in Metro compared to desktop, so what incentive is there to use Metro? If you have a large 1080p tv, just change the DPI to 150 on the desktop and then everything is easily readable.
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post #75 of 584
11/2/12 at 2:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by duff99 View Post

With Vista Microsoft was at least trying to make improvements for the desktop user. In the end most of Vistas problems could be traced back to things outside of Microsoft's control. Mainly drivers. In this case they are making a desperate bid to save their own butts. They fell at least 2 years behind on phones, and at least that far on tablets. They know they're in trouble. I'm sure you can all see it as well as me. The future of computing is changing, and Microsoft was being left behind. Windows 8 is not trying to improve desktop software. They're just trying to prop up their tablet OS by messing with their core market. We can all see they changes Microsoft is making. They're even getting into the hardware business with the Surface. Don't tell me they're not desperate if they're willing to risk alienating all their partners over this. They don't think this is a improvement for desktop users. They think this is the only way the can save themselves. This is where I see the big difference between Vista, and ME. I just hope they realize their mistake and fix this mess before it's to late.

+1
Tablets are the future but for now most people are using desktop machines. Windows 8 may be good for tablets but is lousy for the desktop.
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post #76 of 584
11/2/12 at 5:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenithPete View Post

I'm surprised at this thread because it doesn't seem to be much geared toward HTPC use. The metro interface is definitely an improvement over desktop mode for using a remote or a touchscreen device, and launching apps and programs like Netflix and browsers. I have always tried to minimize the time I see the desktop at all on my windows htpcs, I guess not everyone has the same approach.
I don't understand the hatred toward metro when it comes to HTPCs, which is what this forum is about.
If there aren't compatibility problems with your hardware and software I would not hesitate to install it when building an HTPC.
I won't get into whether it's a better OS for business and general use, because this is not the forum for it.

I agree that the Metro interface has potential for use in an HTPC, but so far, the real-world experience seems to fall far short. Take a look at this video of someone trying to use his remote with Metro Apps. It's a very mixed bag of results.

I'm not currently convinced that Microsoft has designed the Metro SDK with Remotes in mind, only touch/keyboard/mouse. Perhaps someone can tell us otherwise?

I'm also trying to find out how I can get my HTPC to autologon and boot straight into WMC. It doesn't seem to be possible in Windows 8.

In Windows 7, I could use NETPLWIZ to set up autologon, and WMC had "startup when Windows starts up" and "always remain on top" options. In Windows 8, both of those options are gone from WMC, and although NETPLWIZ is still present, it no longer seems to work for autologons.

Bottom line: Microsoft want WMC dead and buried, but there's currently nothing to replace it with in the Metro Market.
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post #77 of 584
11/2/12 at 6:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcoupe View Post

Bottom line: Microsoft want WMC dead and buried, but there's currently nothing to replace it with in the Metro Market.

Agreed. MS only 'included' it to steer some of the flack away if they didn't. What they've done though is push it right out of the mainstream, so it's now difficult to get and has to be paid 'extra' for. MS clearly want shot of MC now, and it definitely won't be part of Windows 9. Removing the options to run at boot time and not allowing it to be the top window are also small changes that reduce the overall functionality and make it less user-friendly to use.

Unless some third party step up to the mark, there will be nothing in Metro that provides any similar HTPC functionality from MS. Metro had the potential to be a new 10" GUI interface to MC, but it's a dead duck as far as I'm concerned. Controlling Metro with a remote is also a painful experience, so MS didn't really put much effort into this. To be honest, Metro is just interpreting remote keypresses as keyboard input, and we know how non keyboard/mouse friendly Metro really is.
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post #78 of 584
11/2/12 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

The problem is in Window 7 if I want to go to Device Manager, I hit Win, type "Dev", press Down (three or whatever times), Enter, and I'm there. In Windows 8, it's Win, "DEV", wait, I don't see it, what? Oh, I have to click settings with the mouse, got it, now I'm there. They took something that was easy with Win 7 and made it harder. Just one of a
Unfortunately in linux's case, there's a lot of stuff you can't do in the GUI.
A new UI should be intuitive and easy to use. Windows 8 may be that for tablets, but tablets have completely different interface conventions like swiping from edges (though, having an android device, that's even not really a convention confused.gif ), but desktops have none of those conventions. Pushing tablet interface conventions to a desktop user is something I just don't/can't understand, beyond the appearance that MS appears to be banking everything on mobile.



Based on all of the comments, it seems like Win8 is optimized for a Tablet environment.

So, is anybody here using it as a tablet?

I'm pretty happy with my HTPC right now on Win7. But some of the new Tablets have caught my eye... Disappointed in the fact that the Surface-RT appears to be incapable of accessing/streaming my HTPC content. But a Surface is supposed to be on the way that will run Win8Pro. The 13" version of the Lenovo Yoga is already out and running Win8 Pro. I think that means I should be able to purchase/install WMC on it...

Anybody tried using a Win8 laptop/tablet as a "WMC Extender"? Any problems/complications?


A 13" convertible laptop/tablet, with HDMI out, that could access all of my WMC goodness, would be appealing to me... particularly if it could take control of one of my HTPC Ceton tuners for LiveTV.

Anybody have any experience with any Win8 tablets or convertibles?
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post #79 of 584
11/2/12 at 7:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImThat1Guy View Post

According to Tom's Hardware, the Media Center Pack not only adds WMC and DVD playback, it adds BluRay. This is an absolutely massive improvement. With Windows 7, it cost $100 for the OS, plus ~$50-$100 for BluRay playback, which even still was a somewhat clunky solution with WMC. With Windows 8, it costs $140 for Win8Pro, plus $10 for the Media Center Pack (though during the "introductory period", the pack will be free), which has BluRay baked in. If you're upgrading from Win7, it's $40 for the Win8 upgrade, plus $10 for WMC. For people who want to be using CableCARD but not compromising on the movie front, that's great.
Couple this with the fact that Metro is a great 10-foot UI, and we might have a winner.

Has anyone verified the blue ray functionality, this is a pretty big deal for htpc.
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post #80 of 584
11/2/12 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Has anyone verified the blue ray functionality, this is a pretty big deal for htpc.

WHAT. That's what this guy said too. Someone needs to test this ASAP.
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post #81 of 584
11/2/12 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tman247 View Post

I agree totally. MS know Metro on the desktop is wrong, but it's a sure fire way of getting people used to the new interface concept, and I firmly believe that the only reason is to get them back in the tablet/phone market. If people are used to Metro, then they're more likely to look at Surface tablets or Windows 8 phones which have the same interface. If MS had made Metro optional on the desktop, most people would just have disabled it, which wouldn't have been good for their other markets.
It's an old idea. Push the thing into your face so you can't ignore it. You might not like it, but you'll get used to it, and then, believe it or not, you're more likely to buy it. MS still have a total stranglehold on the desktop market, but they also know this market will tail off sharply over the next few years. Even if corporates avoid 8 like the plague (which they most likely will) and run 7 instead, it's still a client license at the end of the day, so 7 or 8 doesn't really matter to them in the business world. It's the consumer who's moving away from PC's, so that's what they're targeting.
I think this is called the 'brute force' approach.

Wow that's diabolical. smile.gif You know I was thinking after playing around with win8 that maybe wp8 wouldn't be such a bad alternative to android, huh.

Although I'm so tied in with google services I can't imagine making that switch. I'm so tied into google services that I'm pretty happy working on chrome OS.
Edited by jeffkro - 11/2/12 at 8:17am
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post #82 of 584
11/2/12 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tman247 View Post

Agreed. MS only 'included' it to steer some of the flack away if they didn't. What they've done though is push it right out of the mainstream, so it's now difficult to get and has to be paid 'extra' for. MS clearly want shot of MC now, and it definitely won't be part of Windows 9. Removing the options to run at boot time and not allowing it to be the top window are also small changes that reduce the overall functionality and make it less user-friendly to use.
Unless some third party step up to the mark, there will be nothing in Metro that provides any similar HTPC functionality from MS. Metro had the potential to be a new 10" GUI interface to MC, but it's a dead duck as far as I'm concerned. Controlling Metro with a remote is also a painful experience, so MS didn't really put much effort into this. To be honest, Metro is just interpreting remote keypresses as keyboard input, and we know how non keyboard/mouse friendly Metro really is.

This is insane to me, with streaming boxes, smart tv's and what not becoming popular, why is MS retreating from this market? It seems like they should have made a google tv type device based around WMC on a stripped down windows kernel.
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post #83 of 584
11/2/12 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

This is insane to me, with streaming boxes, smart tv's and what not becoming popular, why is MS retreating from this market? It seems like they should have made a google tv type device based around WMC on a stripped down windows kernel.

Couldn't agree more.

This is something that MS has that could give them a LEG UP on their two competitors... it's hard to understand why they'd want to run away from it...
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post #84 of 584
11/2/12 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcoupe View Post

I'm also trying to find out how I can get my HTPC to autologon and boot straight into WMC. It doesn't seem to be possible in Windows 8.
In Windows 7, I could use NETPLWIZ to set up autologon, and WMC had "startup when Windows starts up" and "always remain on top" options. In Windows 8, both of those options are gone from WMC, and although NETPLWIZ is still present, it no longer seems to work for autologons.
That really sucks -- is there really no way to make this happen?

(I just got my WMC key for my Windows 8 VM, so I was going to play around with this over this coming weekend).
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post #85 of 584
11/2/12 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlv View Post

That really sucks -- is there really no way to make this happen?
(I just got my WMC key for my Windows 8 VM, so I was going to play around with this over this coming weekend).
I tested adding the autologon registry entries and that didn't work either.
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post #86 of 584
11/2/12 at 3:01pm
Thread Starter 
Auto log on is simple.

- On the Run dialog, type "control userpasswords2" (without the quotes) and hit enter.
- In the resulting dialog, uncheck "Users must enter a username.....". Make sure that the user you want to be auto logged on is selected and hit apply.
- Confirm your password when it prompts
- Reboot.

It'll auto login now.
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post #87 of 584
11/2/12 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

Auto log on is simple.
- On the Run dialog, type "control userpasswords2" (without the quotes) and hit enter.
- In the resulting dialog, uncheck "Users must enter a username.....". Make sure that the user you want to be auto logged on is selected and hit apply.
- Confirm your password when it prompts
- Reboot.
It'll auto login now.

Alternatively type "netplwiz". I always did this with Windows 7 anyway. Doing this + adding Pokki means I never have to see metro if I don't want to. It's just like Windows 7 except the improved task manager, copy dialog, and other niceties Windows 8 includes. Obviously Media Browser and some other WMC add-ins don't work though, so keep that in mind if you want to use it as a WMC HTPC.
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post #88 of 584
11/2/12 at 4:03pm
"control userpasswords2" and "netplwiz" do the same thing. And this still works in Win8 (non domain environment.) But if you're using an email account to logon, then you need to specify this account name in the netplwiz UI (+ the matching passord).
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post #89 of 584
11/2/12 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

Has anyone tried WMC 8 with an ATSC card? Is it a good assumption that Win7 drivers will work in Win8?

Does not work with HDHomerun.
Message says "no tuners found"

Does work with Hauppauge 950Q
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post #90 of 584
11/2/12 at 9:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcoupe View Post

WMC had "startup when Windows starts up" and "always remain on top" options. In Windows 8, both of those options are gone from WMC
Removed from the UI but the functionality is still there: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437212/8mc-tips-tricks-and-tweaks
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