Disney buys Lucasfilm! - Page 9

Originally Posted by srw1000 

What did he do with it?

Originally Posted by Josh Z 

Midichlorians.

Originally Posted by Josh Z 

Midichlorians.

Originally Posted by lordcloud 

Exactly.

Originally Posted by srw1000 

Ah, that false internet meme is still bothering some. I thought it was mostly still limited to the Ain't It Cool News Talkback crowd.

• Midi-chloians ≠ the force
• Midi-chloians don't change the nature of the force, and only offer a partial explanation of how one can interact with it
• The force itself remains as mysterious as it ever was
• Midi-chloians date back to the time of the original Star Wars, and were always part of Lucas' concept of the force

if that's still not enough, and you still consider the very idea heresy, consider that most if our knowledge of them was relayed by Qui-Gon, who wasn't the most orthodox of the Jedi. Maybe what he stated was mostly his own opinion. After all, Anakin's Midi-chlorian count in itself wasn't enough to sway the Jedi Council. We know that some Jedi have a certain point of view on some matters that others may not agree with.
Scott

Originally Posted by srw1000 

Ah, that false internet meme is still bothering some. I thought it was mostly still limited to the Ain't It Cool News Talkback crowd.

[*] Midi-chloians ≠ the force
[*] Midi-chloians don't change the nature of the force, and only offer a partial explanation of how one can interact with it
[*] The force itself remains as mysterious as it ever was

[*] Midi-chloians date back to the time of the original Star Wars, and were always part of Lucas' concept of the force

Originally Posted by Josh Z 


Right, and George Lucas always wanted Greedo to shoot at Han first, but it just wasn't technologically possible to shoot the scene that way in the 1970s.

Originally Posted by Auditor55 

Does that mean we will get more Jar Jar Binks? We need more Jar Jar Binks to bring Star Wars back to greatness!

Originally Posted by Josh Z 

You George Lucas apologists will forgive the man anything, won't you?

Originally Posted by Josh Z 

Right, and George Lucas always wanted Greedo to shoot at Han first, but it just wasn't technologically possible to shoot the scene that way in the 1970s.

"It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different; they have more midi-chlorians in their cells."

Originally Posted by srw1000 

And it's easier for critics to dismiss a posting by simply attributing it to an apologist rather than address the points of the argument.
Nice try with that non sequitur, but an invalid comparison.
Midi-chlorians date back at least to 1977:
The quote is taken from the guidelines dictated by Lucas for Star Wars spinoff material, following the success of the first movie. This is documented in J. W. Rinzler's book, The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film.
Scott

Originally Posted by lordcloud 

And seeing as how the Star Wars universe is, and should be limited to the movies for the most part, what GL said and is quoted in a book, is of little consequence. No one that is enamored by the beauty and mystique of the force had ever heard of it until 1999. It's an idea that GL should have left where it was. It was a bad idea to bring it "back out of hiding" .

Originally Posted by oink 

I have to agree with this.
Midichlorians was kinda unnecessary IMO.
Although I understand GL was trying to translate something that had been mostly mystical (THE FORCE) to a measurable scientific phenomena, it felt out of place in the spirit of that which is Star Wars.
IMO, he lost sight of The Big Picture a bit with this....

Originally Posted by oink 

I have to agree with this.
Midichlorians was kinda unnecessary IMO.
Although I understand GL was trying to translate something that had been mostly mystical (THE FORCE) to a measurable scientific phenomena, it felt out of place in the spirit of that which is Star Wars.
IMO, he lost sight of The Big Picture a bit with this....

Originally Posted by lordcloud 

Exactly. And that's one of my points; he seems to focus on minutiae and loses sight of the overall breadth of the story and at the same time is unable to connect the dots in a coherent way. His storytelling is not a strong suit in my opinion. I know others don't agree, but it's how I see it.

Originally Posted by mr. wally 

well george really only made 4 mistakes. changing han from shooting first, trying to quantify midichlorians, giving jar jar such a big role, and casting hayden christiansen.
if he had avoided those mistakes more than 50% of all the hate would vanish.
oops one more, not releasing the ot.

Originally Posted by mr. wally 

well george really only made 4 mistakes. changing han from shooting first, trying to quantify midichlorians, giving jar jar such a big role, and casting hayden christiansen.
if he had avoided those mistakes more than 50% of all the hate would vanish.
oops one more, not releasing the ot.

Originally Posted by mr. wally 

well george really only made 4 mistakes. changing han from shooting first, trying to quantify midichlorians, giving jar jar such a big role, and casting hayden christiansen.
if he had avoided those mistakes more than 50% of all the hate would vanish.
oops one more, not releasing the ot.

Originally Posted by lordcloud 

Midichlorians are nowhere to be seen or heard in the movies, up until the prequels, and 99.99999999% of people who love or like Star Wars, will never have heard of it up until then. And seeing as how the Star Wars universe is, and should be limited to the movies for the most part, what GL said and is quoted in a book, is of little consequence. No one that is enamored by the beauty and mystique of the force had ever heard of it until 1999. It's an idea that GL should have left where it was. It was a bad idea to bring it "back out of hiding" and speaks to how out of touch he is with the fans.
No matter how you spin it, GL really shouldn't be allowed as close to the movies as he will unfortunately be allowed.

Originally Posted by oink 

I have to agree with this.
Midichlorians was kinda unnecessary IMO.
Although I understand GL was trying to translate something that had been mostly mystical (THE FORCE) to a measurable scientific phenomena, it felt out of place in the spirit of that which is Star Wars.
IMO, he lost sight of The Big Picture a bit with this....

Originally Posted by lordcloud 

Exactly. And that's one of my points; he seems to focus on minutiae and loses sight of the overall breadth of the story and at the same time is unable to connect the dots in a coherent way. His storytelling is not a strong suit in my opinion. I know others don't agree, but it's how I see it.

Originally Posted by srw1000 

Whether or not fans had knowledge of Midi-chlorians before The Phantom Menace isn't the point. After all, If the prequels were strictly limited to what was shown in the first three movies, they would be severely limited in scope. Just because the audience hadn't heard of them before doesn't mean that they didn't exist in the Star Wars universe.
I only brought it up because it shows that it was part of his concept of the force since it's inception, not just something new that was grafted on 20 years later.
The "beauty and mystique" of the force still remains unchanged and unaffected by the new information.
I don't see it as trying to bring science to the force; he's never been concerned about that with the other technology shown in the movies. These aren't science fiction films, they're science fantasy, and always intended that way. What they do offer are interesting hints as to Anakin's origins, echoed in Palpatine's discussion with him during the opera scene. They also offer more fodder for fans to speculate what role the force may have played over the course of the movies. At one point, fans would have taken up that challenge, offering their own views and opinions on how this all played out. That's a big difference in the fan base that existed back in the 70's and 80's compared to today.
The Midi-chlorian discussion last for what, two minutes on screen? For a movie that lasts for over two hours? That hardly seems to be a major focus of the movie.

Originally Posted by oink 

I have to agree with this.
Midichlorians was kinda unnecessary IMO.
Although I understand GL was trying to translate something that had been mostly mystical (THE FORCE) to a measurable scientific phenomena, it felt out of place in the spirit of that which is Star Wars.
IMO, he lost sight of The Big Picture a bit with this....

Originally Posted by srw1000 

It does look like he's giving some fans exactly what they'be been asking for - a general storyline, fleshed out by another writer, filmed by a different director, and produced by someone other that Rick McCallum.

Originally Posted by DavidML3 

I think the whole Midichlorians was to show how powerful anakin was/could have been. You notice that soon as Qui Gonn saw the count he compared it to Yoda. It was just used a measuring stick since of course Anakin would never fight yoda nor palpatine so we would never know how truly powerful he was/couldve been

Another thing is GL did a poor job of even showing how powerful the kid was. Yet throughout the entire original trilogy he was portrayed as a legend of some sort. Like the Michael Jordan of the Force or something

Originally Posted by jwebb1970 


As to midichlorians, I saw them as something placed there in TPM to eventually explain (although not totally) in ROTS that Sidious/Palpatine was perhaps responsible for Anakin's "virgin birth" and to explain why one w/ a high level of them in their system would pass them on to their children...esp a pair of fraternal twins.

Originally Posted by oink 

I agree with 4 of 'em.
HC has grown on me.
Anakin couldn't be all warm and fuzzy.
In order to match the DV in the OT, Anakin had to have the potential, the believability to end up as Vader.
For example, NO ONE can picture Luke as a Sith Lord....the math just does not work.

Originally Posted by lordcloud 

I'd like to add adding all of the digital creatures into the special editions, green lighting Jar Jar as a character, not letting someone else direct the prequels(Hayden isn't a bad actor actually), not watching the OT before filming the prequels(too many things don't make sense or add up), and aiming the movies at kids.

Originally Posted by jwebb1970 

Oh don't worry - those same complainers will be complaining just as loudly come 2015. It is inevitable that nerds will continue to bitch/moan/nitpick for months/years on end about movies that they claim to despise. What do you think keeps this section of AVS alive?
As to midichlorians, I saw them as something placed there in TPM to eventually explain (although not totally) in ROTS that Sidious/Palpatine was perhaps responsible for Anakin's "virgin birth" and to explain why one w/ a high level of them in their system would pass them on to their children...esp a pair of fraternal twins. I too recall GL's early reference to them mentioned in JW Rinzler's book.
On that note, recently saw that Rinzler's Making of ROTJ is currently in the final editing process & is due fall 2013. Curious to check out that one & get a better sense of what went on behind the scenes.

Originally Posted by jwebb1970 


As to midichlorians, I saw them as something placed there in TPM to eventually explain (although not totally) in ROTS that Sidious/Palpatine was perhaps responsible for Anakin's "virgin birth" and to explain why one w/ a high level of them in their system would pass them on to their children...esp a pair of fraternal twins.

Originally Posted by mr. wally 


i actually liked most of the embellishments g.l. added to the ot, except the one that changed han's entire character
i thought the shock waves when alderaan and the death star explode were particularly nice

Originally Posted by srw1000 

Whether or not fans had knowledge of Midi-chlorians before The Phantom Menace isn't the point. After all, If the prequels were strictly limited to what was shown in the first three movies, they would be severely limited in scope. Just because the audience hadn't heard of them before doesn't mean that they didn't exist in the Star Wars universe.
I only brought it up because it shows that it was part of his concept of the force since it's inception, not just something new that was grafted on 20 years later.
The "beauty and mystique" of the force still remains unchanged and unaffected by the new information.
I don't see it as trying to bring science to the force; he's never been concerned about that with the other technology shown in the movies. These aren't science fiction films, they're science fantasy, and always intended that way. What they do offer are interesting hints as to Anakin's origins, echoed in Palpatine's discussion with him during the opera scene. They also offer more fodder for fans to speculate what role the force may have played over the course of the movies. At one point, fans would have taken up that challenge, offering their own views and opinions on how this all played out. That's a big difference in the fan base that existed back in the 70's and 80's compared to today.
The Midi-chlorian discussion last for what, two minutes on screen? For a movie that lasts for over two hours? That hardly seems to be a major focus of the movie.
Without Lucas, there would be no Star Wars. To eliminate his influence from future movies would be a lost opportunity. It does look like he's giving some fans exactly what they'be been asking for - a general storyline, fleshed out by another writer, filmed by a different director, and produced by someone other that Rick McCallum.
Scott

Originally Posted by lordcloud 


Why people keep going back to GL having created SW, as a good reason for him being a part of it going forward...I don't know. Yes, we know he created it, but what he's done with it is a testament to the fact that better minds need to take the reins and create better things based on what we have.

Originally Posted by Closet Geek 

How do you arrive at Sidious possibly being responsible?

Originally Posted by jwebb1970 

I'll let those far geekier give an official explanation (or at least an expanded universe via Wiki explanation), but I was referring to the conversation Palpatine & Anakin had in the opera house in EpIII. While the EU novel explanation goes into more detail, I always assumed that since Sidious' former master had apparently been able to cheat death and create life, coupled with Palpatine's throw away line to Anakin in TPM ("We'll be watching your career with great interest), that GL was hinting @ Anakin's immaculate conception being caused by Sidious via his dark side powers.
Via Wikipedia: Darth Plagueis is a powerful Sith Lord mentioned by Palpatine/Darth Sidious in Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith in a conversation with Anakin Skywalker. He was the Master of Darth Sidious and, as the latter tells Anakin, had found a way to use the Force to overcome death and create life. The Darth Plagueis novel reveals that at the time of Phantom Menace, well into the Naboo invasion, Darth Plagueis was alive and Darth Sidious was his apprentice even as Sidious was apprenticing Darth Maul. In the novel, Darth Sidious reveals that Anakin Skywalker's immaculate conception was the effect of the Force reacting to a major shift created by Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious. Plagueis rejected the competitive nature of the rule of two and planned instead to live eternally as co-chancellor of the Republic Senate with Sidious. Plagueis was eventually killed by Darth Sidious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith